Makedonia Thread

So, what's your opinion on this subject? Should FYROM named Macedonia? I strongly disagree with this. First, people which don't some info about Macedonia will grow up knowing FYROM is Macedonia. The term Ancient Macedonia would apply to their "history". Macedons/Macedonians would apply to the Slavs of that state. But it has been proved that Macedons were Greeks, not Slavs. Alexander the Great built his empire on the Panellinian Idea, the idea of the union of all the Greeks under one state. His conquest lead to the spread of the Hellenic civilization, not the Macedonian, beacause while there are differences between Macedonia, Athens and Thebes, there is stil great similarities, in the way modern Cretan traditions differ to other Greece's tradition. A last, probably unkown point is that some of FYROM politicians admitted that they used Greek history and tradition to fight Greeks because Greece didn't accept this new state. Not sure about the last part, but they did said that they don't have a relation to Ancient Macedonians

Former Soviet Republic of Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania/Poland...

Naming some country that was under some other republic IMO is dum. It is like Macedonians were proud of being in the Yugoslavic republic though UN was the one that named it that way.

So yes I would like FYROM to be just named Macedonia.

Yes but you seem to ignore or don't be aware who is a Macedonian. Macedonians are Greeks not slavs. They were identified as Bulgars if am not mistaken before their state was created.

Hmm... well it really might be different that I had thought.

I thought it might be the same as:
Some group of etnic Germans live in other region for a long time and then called themselves Austrians.
In colonization of America. Spain's conquistadors killed most of native Americans and through long living in an isolated region called themselves Mexicans, Venezuelans, Colombians etc. who made up their own traditions.

But we really are talking about Region in which a bit distinct Greeks called Macedonians lived and then Slavic people lived.

Macedonians <-- Group of People who live in Macedonia.

Edited by: Pendrokar

Not really. Greeks of USA name themselves Greek Americans. For Greeks that live in the state of Cyrpus we still remain both Greeks and Cypriots, because the Greek nation is our the nation we belong to, but we are from the island of Cyprus and we are proud of this as well. This happens with Cretans, with the difference that their island had been unified with the other Greek region. You see we have lived for so many years in these areas that they are a part of our life. But Slavs, and especially the slavs that name their state Macedonia were identefied differently before the state's creation in 1991. Before the 6th century, Macedonia region was the Macedonia's kingdom, later it was part of the Macedonian Empire, Roman Empire(Roman Empire, and part of Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire after its division.During about 600 it was firstly attacked by Bulgarians and became a part of the Bulg. Empire. This is the time Slavs first inhabitted Macedonia. Macedonia returned to Byzantines late and again in Greeks during the Balkanian Wars(its most part). So why 1991 this group of Slavomacedonians decided to declare their newly born state Macedonia and theirselves Macedonians? Do you also think that the greatest of the Greeks, Great Alexander was Slav as well?

technically speaking, with how Alexander treated his subjects, majority of the world is Macedonian - his vision was for a truly unified world under the rule of Macedonian-Greek men- which sadly fell apart due to his death and the selfishness of his friends and generals.

I agree with you Marinos, they shouldn't be Macedonians because historically Macedonia is Greek, if it become something other than Greek then Western civilization has truly failed and everything that Alexander and Philip fought for would mean nothing.

Someone wrote: Great Alexander was Slav as well?

he was many things to many people , Pharaoh, Sultan, Heir, God, King, Governor, General, Student and Philosopher- he was considered to be Greek, Macedonian, Egyptian, Muslim and Hindi as he studied all of their cultures respectfully.

However the Slavs claim citizenship of a land that is not theirs, they didn't fight against Darius or Xerxes for that matter, They didn't fight along side Philip.. They are not Macedonian and are not Greek. However Alexander either way would have given them the same rights as a Macedonian- of which his generals hated him for it- he took many pagan wives after all to further insult the Greek nobles- I guess you really need to ask yourself, What would Alexander do ..

If anything the slavs are Byzantine Roman- I don't think they were ever given Macedonian Citizenship, you should be able to find some information on Slav Macedonian Free Men- if there aren't any, then they have no claim- if there are, then the state recognizes them as Citizens and their claim is legitimized. It ultimately depends on how their citizenship happened, I'm mostly going to respect the Citizenship that of Philip's Macedonian Kingdom, later Alexander's Macedonian Empire as opposed to any modern incarnation.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Well, Yugoslavia "disappeared one day" and so the Slavs formed a state. I am not sure how would anyone see the subject if they didn't claimed themselves Macedonians, descendants of Philip and Alexander. I mean Greece, want or not, would support the country. See Albania, the Greeks of Northern Epirus are facing several problems, but several thousands of Albanians live and work in Greece, and Greecee is the first economical supporter of Albania. I mean we lost Northern Epirus, this land became Greek several times in modern history but just so Albania could live, it was given to the that state. But Greece is still forced to support it. I am sure that there is a lot anhelenic propaganda in Skopje and Albania. But modern greek government and politics don't worth a lot(freemasonry is one problem, the differences between political parties even so many years after the Civil War, even a lot of years have passed since the coup d' etat, same problems in Cyprus), so let's hope ourselves can help our nations and history. Alexander would sure make them part of its Empire, but not if the came and claimed that Macedonia were theirs.

Someone wrote: (freemasonry is one problem, the differences between political parties even so many years after the Civil War, even a lot of years have passed since the coup d' etat, same problems in Cyprus)

Well Freemasonry for the past 500 years only looked after itself, only now are they having to come out of being a Secret Society- but I suspect in Greece many would rather go to the old ways with their hands in the cookie jar and what not and protect their own interests rather than the nation.

Someone wrote: Alexander would sure make them part of its Empire, but not if the came and claimed that Macedonia were theirs.

Aye definitely. And then he'd train them, educate them, pay them and make them another part of his army what's not to like about that. Were as if they had marched on Macedon, well they'd end up like Xerxes .

I think Greece needs another Alexander, I think even the world needs another Alexander.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Another Alexander, another Constantine and a new Revolution against the anhelenic Hellenic state.

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I think Greece needs another Alexander, I think even the world needs another Alexander.

Or another Cezar,just a man with vision,ideas and leader qualities .
But the question is how long will he last withouth becoming mildly insane or obsessed by his greatness thinking he is an god on earth.
Man gets too easily corrupted and influenced by power,so i really can't say if there is anyone capable of leading the whole world.
Although i deeply respect Alexander and Cezar,in my opinion a world lead by one man wouldn't work very well
(The current governments works shitty anyway,so maybe it would be better :P ).

And yes,Yugoslavia felt apart after Josip Broz Tito (not a fan) died,and Yugoslavian countries started to attack each other grabbing land.
Also you cant look back 1000 years and say "that is our land",every country lost more or less land in the past,There is still a lot of territory
owned by Italy and Croatia that should be ours which was taken from us not so far ago,but fuck it what can you do.

Just some random feedback from me,that is missing head and tail....
>.>

Well actually we don't look back 1000 years. It's about 4000(=D), because Hellas roots is on Macedonia and Epirus, but actually Macedonia became a part of Greece after Balkan Wars, so less than 100 years. But it's not about the land. It's more about using Macedonia's name and history. Also, that bit of land that Skopje has does't have a mean for us Greeks. Because our fights were first to free Greeks in outside-Greece territories and then get back historical places, but usually places with history written on them were all inhabided by Greeks, so back to the first point.

People should simply use DNA tests to solve those very old ethnical issues. Analyze DNA and determine who's who.

Because with intermixing and cross-breeding for several thousand years, each individual is going to be obviously defined as 'spanish' or 'italian', or 'greek'.

Mobius89 wrote: People should simply use DNA tests to solve those very old ethnical issues. Analyze DNA and determine who's who.

Don't know how the fuck that would work in places like London which have a long and mostly successful history of immigrants - some of the broadest cockneys I've heard are black guys. There's a lot more to nationality and culture than just genetics

Also who the hell will pay for the DNA tests...
The whole idea is just silly,it dosent really matter what's your origin.
All this sounds a little racist to me...

It comes strictly down to place of birth guys, if they don't have citizenship from the period of around 500BC to about the time the Roman state took over (I have no idea when), then they don't have "true" Macedonian citizenship rather Roman or Byzantine as its more modernly referred to. To be a Macedonian citizen is to have been given citizenship during the time where Macedonia was free- to have ancestry that was present in the time of Philip and Alexander's kingdom- or even before this time when Greece ruled the lands.

British citizenship comes also down to Ancestry as well- or at least it did prior to the 1900s- if your parents were British but you weren't then you'd automatically be given Citizenship, so long as your birthplace was within the commonwealth (ie. Canada, Hong Kong, Australia and South Africa). However this does not refer to "ancient" families, because if it did I'd be considered German (being of Anglo-Saxon origin). Americans cannot have Citizenship because the British state recognizes America as a traitorous nation- thus their citizenship is forfeit- this is why after the independence war no American citizens could return to England.

The easiest way to resolve the issue is get hold of the original citizenship records from Alexander's administration. Though any real tax collection record would do. This is actually how many Britians trace their heraldry back.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Well, you say bullshit most of you now. There are two things that determined who you are: Your ancestry, who are your parents, who were their parents and grandparents...... The second thing is what do you want to be,or if you really want to be what you are. There is no really need for DNA tests because history proved who you are.

Edited by: marinos