A Score to Settle
After 3 years of work, Dark Mod Team Member Springheel is ready to release his first mission!
Details:
A Score to Settle is a small to medium sized mission, where you set out to find and humiliate the leader of a rival gang. It is meant to be a challenge to players who are familiar with TDM, and is probably not a good mission for those still getting accustomed to TDM's mechanics (it's also not appropriate for children).
ASTS uses 1.06 features, which means that AI are capable of relighting lights. The chance of this happening goes up depending on the difficulty level you choose.
Difficulty levels also affect the number and quality of AI, the number and type of lights, and AI acuity (AI have slightly better than normal hearing on Hardcore). The difference between Casual and Hardcore is
considerable.
The mission includes several video and audio files, so it is hefty at 135MB.
Please follow the objectives carefully. If you don't do the "first" objective first, you'll spoil some of the story for yourself.
thats a big *** candle
It gets smaller ;)
gotto have a big candle for that much light!!!
******* epic
nice work Springheellll!!! Congratulations on your first release *cheers*
This is really a pivotal release.
This is how The Dark Mod's Lead Artist and AI Animation author personally sees how TDM missions should be. This will be as much a point of reference as St Lucia is to current and future mission authors.
I can't wait to see what this mission inspires.
This is really a sloppy release.
The objective, abject truth is that it highlights a lot of the lingering bugs in TDM and how bells & whistles only serve to call attention to poor design.
Could you elaborate on this statement at all? This mission has almost unanimously become an instant favourite amongst fans of TDM, so I find your comment rather extraordinary. What lingering bugs? What poor design?
"This mission has almost unanimously become an instant favourite amongst fans of TDM..."
A simple case of sycophantic nonsense. Really.
You want me to elaborate? The fact is don't need to elaborate. I know you know exactly what I'm talking about but would rather play along with the "unanimous, instant, favorite".
The mission asks the player to head north to a certain dwelling (a restrictive aspect that would normally get plenty of criticism, by the way) -- and the mission and all of its not-ready-for-prime-time scripting depends upon this avenue of "adventure". Problem is the way north is met immediately by an east or west road. 50% chance of going the wrong way and experiencing a mess. 3 years in development and this never occurred? Majorly sloppy.
There is a lot more I could "elaborate" on, but let's just leave it at that because its a stark and egregious failing that alone makes a mockery of the idea that this mission is pivotal in a positive sense.
It is not one of the better missions.
There are plenty of missions that look a lot better.
There are plenty of missions that work a lot better.
There are plenty of missions that play a lot better.
"...and the mission and all of its not-ready-for-prime-time scripting depends upon this avenue of 'adventure'"
Hogwash. The mission can still be completed if you go the wrong way to begin with, whether intentionally or not. I've done this myself and the mission plot did not feel adversely affected by it.
Now, there is a FM bug (not a TDM bug) whereby one objective won't get checked off if you don't complete another first, and I'm sure this will be addressed in due course. Apart from this single bug, no, I don't know what you're talking about.
"[Silly, ironic, contradictory... "hogwash", indeed]... there is a FM bug (not a TDM bug) whereby one objective won't get checked off if you don't complete another first..."
Yes, hogwash indeed.
You have done a commendable job! I'm sure you will be rewarded in due course for your staring the facts in the face, reiterating them and maintaining all the while that they don't matter because [i]simply everyone[/i] agrees we are to instantly(!) fall about.
You sound like someone toke your toy and now you want revenge "A Score to Settle". Your OPINION about this FM and TDM is only a opinion nothing more, different from mine and many others don't forget.
BTW bugs are norm on AAA games, but for you somehow, a small bug or design mistake on a TDM fan mission even if it toke 3 years to finish is case for public lynching, to me like a said above it sounds like there's some personal resent.
Firstly, I said 'almost unanimously', so your over-reaction (simply everyone!) to my 'sycophantic' obsequiousness is surprising, coming from a pedant such as yourself.
Secondly, I find vacuous criticism to be offensive, which is why I was compelled to ask you to provide some basis to your claims. You should learn to be more constructive in your criticisms, at least then you would be contributing something.
Well, let's see, the first four randomly posted reactions to the mission:
"Man that was a great FM, definitely one of the very best so far."
"Jaw dropping! Every aspect of it. "
"Might this be the best mission so far? It is just great. "
"Bottom Line: This is another mission that should be advertised on TTLG. Just show them some screenshots of the town... How could anyone *not* want to play it?"
I guess that's all "sycophantic nonsense" too.
" Problem is the way north is met immediately by an east or west road. 50% chance of going the wrong way and experiencing a mess."
There is no "going the wrong way". Either route can be taken to your first objective. The first objective says, "First, go to X". If you don't go to X first, then you're going to miss out on some backstory. Oooo, I guess that is a "stark and egregious failing".
If you're going to complain about something, at least get the facts straight.
"I guess that's all 'sycophantic nonsense'"
Yep. That is what I said.
And yep, you know damned well and have even expressly admitted that the the mission is likely to be a mess if you go west rather than east at that early point. You've been told about it, realized it, and admitted it.
If you'd like me to go on about the many other flaws certainly I can. But I'd really rather not. I didn't want to deconstruct it even to the degree I have because I know it seems harsh. But I was asked to and then met with a ridiculous denial-***-confirmation.
I'm just saying that this is not a good mission to put forward as something that represents the best of what The Dark Mod is capable of...
It is not. Sadly it is quite the opposite. And no amount of instant(!), uncritical nonsense will make it otherwise. It's rather sloppy mission with a lot of failings and not a whole lot of actual substance.
"And yep, you know damned well and have even expressly admitted that the the mission is likely to be a mess if you go west rather than east at that early point"
I know this is being fueled by your personal grudge, but try not to blatantly misrepresent what I said. What I "admitted" was that if you don't do the first objective first (the one that clearly says, "Do this first"), then the story might not make much sense. It has nothing to do with which direction you go.
"If you'd like me to go on about the many other flaws certainly I can."
Please do. I've never suggested the mission is perfect, but if you're going to make the claim that it is a "sloppy mission with a lot of failings" then you're going to have to back it up. Otherwise, people might, you know, just assume you have an axe to grind.
Look, It's really sad that you need to believe or pretend that this is some personal thing.
It's quite clearly not. I pointed out that this is not a good mission to put forth as something that shows off The Dark Mod because, in truth, it rather shows off how you can make a mess.
I wanted to avoid deconstructing the mission's many failings. But I was asked to elaborate, so I just took the most obvious and biggest game-buster and pointed to it. That was received with a pathetic denial-***-confirmation.
And then you come and do the same thing.
And then having done that (denial and confirmation at once) you now want to assert that it is all some personal "axe to grind". You want to chalk it all up to me picking on you. And you insist I keep it up! Well, I certainly don't, as you put it, "have to", but I will give you a little more to think about and then, as I've grown bored with this little charade, let it be.
I'll keep it as brief as I can -- 3 more flaws, in short:
If you head west at the east-or-west point so early in the mission you aren't only very likely to enter the hideout, you are also likely (and if you are a good thief) to enter into the place that has the conversation that (sloppily) "explains" the humiliation objective. This too, and how it makes a mess, has been pointed out to you.
The hideout has a chandelier that you can extinguish the candles on... nifty... but to no effect. A waste of water arrows. Sloppy.
You can kill Sykes and it does not fail the mission.
A: "It's really sad that you need to believe or pretend that this is some personal thing. "
When 95% of the people who have played the mission have nothing but positive things to say, and the one person who comes out attacking it has a history of rabid confrontation on our forums, I think it's a reasonable assumption.
Of course, I gave you the opportunity to defend your claim that the mission is "sloppy", has "poor design" and "a mess". Your first point, that going left creates a problem, is simply false. Let's examine the rest.
A: "you are also likely (and if you are a good thief) to enter into the place that has the conversation that (sloppily) "explains" the humiliation objective. This too, and how it makes a mess, has been pointed out to you."
Sorry, but this doesn't even make sense. That's what you're supposed to do. How does hearing a scripted conversation create "a mess"? Why don't YOU explain it, instead of pretending someone else already has?
A: "The hideout has a chandelier that you can extinguish the candles on... nifty... but to no effect. "
There's a chandelier that doesn't go out properly? My god, that's terrible. You're right, that totally ruins the mission.
A: "You can kill Sykes and it does not fail the mission"
If you can kill Sykes and not fail the mission, then that is indeed a bug. However, no one else has reported it, and we tested it during beta-testing without any problem.
So let's review...you've got one light that doesn't work properly, a scripted conversation that works exactly like it's supposed to, and one isolated bug that has only affected you.
I'll leave it up to others to decide whether you effectively defended your claim or not.
A "good mission" can mean different things to different people AidaKeeley. Yes, if your sole criteria is "can it be played to completion in the correct order from any avenue of exploration" then this is not the best example. I value the dynamism, the well crafted views, and the tense exploration of this mission. There are quite a few things in here that other mappers can take away and expound on. I highly doubt that we would see a landslide of missions with this "sequence issue" due to trying to replicate this experience. I know that you are trying to uphold the duty of making sure "all mission authors are given equal treatment including Team Members" but I think this is unwarranted negativity. Springheel may be an old hat at TDM but this is his FIRST mission. His primary value to the team was not his mapping skill and he had to learn or relearn much of that when he resumed work on this mission. For a first effort, this is quite a mission! But again, even if flawed, it also can serve as an example of the intended aesthetics, play spaces, and interactivity that the TDM team is aiming towards. The acclaim for this mission is well deserved.
AidaKeeley I will not defend the FM maker that is his job, but is fairly obvious that there's a personal stake on this, there's only two reasons someone would attack a indie mod or fan mission like you are doing, first they are a ******* and second they have some kind of resent.
"Simply put: This is the best mission TDM has been blessed with thus far. I was totally sucked in. Everything was perfect."
More "sycophantic nonsense", this time from Sotha, TDM's most prodigious mapper and author of fan favourites "The Transaction" and "Knighton Manor".
See the full post here:
Modetwo.net
Yes, nbohr, for a FIRST (a qualification _you_ needed to STRESS!) mission the flaws are entirely understandable. Like Shadowhide's FIRST mission. I never said that it wasn't. There _is_ much to be admired here -- nothing innovative, but certainly some more experimenting with some of the possibilities afforded by TDM. A good thing to keep at, but sloppily executed and therefore not such a fine set of examples.
The mission _is_ fundamentally flawed. Yes obviously, while not being the "sole criteria", narrative-busting design is not some minor issue. It is a major criterion. It is fundamental. Game-breaking or game-making, no doubt.
While Shadowhide went all woe-is-me-I-suck fishing, which was silly; this sad denial-***-admission tact is silly as well.
But, my main point of contention has been with the silliest thing of all: the undeniably unadulterated, sycophantic nonsense on display...
This mission is really quite a mess and should not be put forth as something to promote TDM with; honestly.
As you seem to realize I'm not trying to hurt Springheel* but only to bring a little grounded critique.
TDM is still being judged. And there is a lot of disingenuous nonsense coming from some of the naysayers. A lot of disingenuous nonsense coming from this side is not helpful but harmful. And especially so if it ends up promoting a mission that could easily serve as fodder for naysaying...
*As you might say, "The kid doth protest too much". I thought it pitiful and am sad to see he continues to display his hurt. I don't believe I've had a particular situation with him, and I've certainly never displayed any vindictiveness when evaluating missions or otherwise (witness my praise of Sotha's mission, even after he pulled his petty-minded not-gonna-let-you-beta-test-for-me thing).
"But, my main point of contention has been with the silliest thing of all: the undeniably unadulterated, sycophantic nonsense on display... "
Lol. Of course, everyone who disagrees with you MUST be lying. There's no other explanation.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion (even if you couldn't back it up with reasonable examples). But when you have to try and dismiss the opinions of virtually everyone else who disagrees with you (including some of the most popular TDM authors to date) as dishonest, well, that's telling.
Anyway, here's the complete thread of responses, along with the anonymous ratings (there's nothing like _anonymous_ sycophants). People can judge for themselves whether your characterization of the comments are accurate.
Modetwo.net
I don't get his point of view at all, all he's saying is that everyone who likes the mission is just stroking your ego and their opinions are invalid...somehow.