This mod reworks hunger thirst and/or sleep with associated items to match real life needs (modifiable). Based on research and scientific articles. Don't mind the blood on the preview image!
Features
General features:
- Intuitive values that relate to real life.
- Most values an be changed in the MCM options menu.
- By default you need 2 l of water/day, 2100 kcal/day and 8 h of sleep per day. Values come from high sitting lifestyle.
- In addition to base needs you'll need more food and water depending on how much and how fast you move (walking, running, sprinting).
- Your game will be miserable with default settings (just like in real life).
- You can survive 6.25 days without water, 9.5 days without food when not moving and will pass out (for certain) after 3 days without sleep. Before max values were respectively at 28 h, 14 h and 31 h. However, if you sprint all day long you'll die after 6.9 h and 11.3 h without drink and food respectively.
- Resource caps are now higher (less wasted resources): 12.5 l of water, 20 000 kcal of food and 72 h of sleep (before they were respectively 1.1 l, 1000 kcal and 31 h). Gray indicator is now a reminder not start of penalties.
- Normal values apply only if you are otherwise healthy. Eg. if you don't sleep 8 h/day then you will use more water per day and without drinking or eating you will die from dehydration or hunger in less time. Note that everything is about in-game time. Anomaly 1.5.1 has 6x faster time than in real life.
- LTX values make more sense. Now 1 unit is 1 l of water (before was 0.336 units), 1 unit of sleep is 1 h awake (before was 3.09 h) and 1 unit of satiety is 20 000 kcal (sorry, scale is hardcoded in engine, before was 1000 kcal).
- You can walk (not run which is the default movement) with backpack full even when you are hungry, thirsty and tired. Before in some conditions you would be stuck.
- I didn't touch values that I knew nothing about (eg. drugs, medicine or smokes etc. although I did research and add some nuances). I just scaled those to the new scales.
- I didn't touch item costs. Those can be modified with game difficulty sliders anyways. And sometimes people make wrong judgements and think something is very good if it is in fact pointless in their situation (glucose).
- Non-DLTX version has associated comments with calculations and references in every file.
- I don't chase absolute realism. If I have to choose between fun and realism I choose fun.
Hunger:
- Adult outside of the Zone needs 2100 kcal per day with a sitting lifestyle but you'll need more because of exercise.
- Just being alive burns 100 kcal/h and walking, running and sprinting burn extra 170, 820 and 1670 kcal/h respectively. I didn't include energy loss from carrying weight since the game needs to be fun too.
- You will die after 9.5 days of no food even if you don't move. If you sleep more than 8 h/day you'll die later.
- You lose less calories while asleep so you can postpone death by starvation when sleeping extra. You lose 100 kcal/h while awake and standing still and 65 kcal/h while asleep.
- Maximum stamina (also referred to as max power or max strength) is 20% lower after 48 h without sleep (before it was about the same). Any sleep fully recovers max stamina.
- Milestones: gray icon = 2000 kcal, yellow icon = 6000 kcal, orange icon = 10 000 kcal, red icon = 16 000 kcal, 18 000 kcal energy deficit is the start of small amount of damage, 20 000 lost kcals = death.
- Hallucinations of fleshes when red indicator lights. Hallucinations get worse the more near you are to death.
- I modified everything that had satiety to match real world values according to its mass. Eg. mineral water doesn't give calories but chocolate gives a lot more.
- Modified cooked meats to be consistent with (vanilla) recipes and real life effects. Again everything is based on research.
- You have 3000 kcal fat reserve. Excess energy goes into that.
Thirst:
- Adult outside of the Zone needs 2 l of water per day with a sitting lifestyle (about 1.5 l without food intake) but you need more because of exercise.
- Walking increases water loss (relative to body weight) by 0.3 %/h (150 ml/h), running by 0.5 %/h (300 ml/h) and sprinting by 2 %/h (1.7 l/h). I didn't include water loss from carrying weight since the game needs to be fun too.
- You will die after 6.25 days of no water even if you don't move. If you sleep more than 8 h/day you'll die later.
- You lose less water while asleep so you can postpone death by dehydration when sleeping extra. You lose 100 ml of water per hour while awake (without exercise) and 42 ml/h while asleep.
- Now food contains water. In real life we get 25 % of needed water from food and even peanuts and chocolate have some water that our bodies absorb.
- Exponential damage function starting at red icon. The more thirsty you are the more damage you get. It becomes successively harder to stay alive.
- Milestones: gray icon = 1.5 l of water deficit, yellow icon and start of penalties = 3 l, orange icon = 5.5 l, red icon and damage start = 8 l, 10.5 l chance to pass out and if you do then chance to die, 12.5 l = death.
- Chance to hallucinate when red indicator. Chance rises at 11.5 l.
- I modified everything that had thirstiness value to match real world values according to its mass. Eg. 1 l water gives 1 l water equivalent of thirstiness reduction and 200 g of bread gives 70 ml water equivalent of thirstiness reduction.
- Took into account the diuretic effect of alcohol and caffeine.
- Diarrhea (water loss) from old meat, can of tuna and raw meats. Old meat isn't the best/cheapest thing anymore if you consider water loss. However, the character has a very strong immune system and diarrhea lasts only for a day (balance between engine coding and game fun).
- Cooking makes meat 33% lighter (water loss) and decreases satiety 1.05 times.
- You have 500 ml water reserve. Excess water goes into that but you'll pee the rest after 500 ml.
Sleep:
- You need 8 h of sleep per day.
- You will pass out after 72 h of being awake.
- Now passing out and sleeping that way actually reduces tiredness.
- Milestones: gray icon = 16 h of being awake, yellow icon and start of penalties = 20 h, orange icon = 30 h, red icon = 40 h, 48 h chance to pass out, 60 h more annoying effects, 72 h = pass out for certain.
- Chance to hallucinate when red indicator (40 h). Chance rises at 60 h.
- Added an empirical (not researched) rest function (rest effectiveness is log-norm function so rest gained is like slanted "S"). Sleep is most effective in the middle of the sleep but long sleeps are still more effective than short ones. I made it that way instead of decreasing exponent in order to prevent players from taking three 1 h naps to get their 8 h need fulfilled.
- Sleepiness has smaller impact on stamina. You are able to run when dead-tired and not carrying too much stuff.
- Tweaked energy drink, caffeine pills, Beard's tea and sleeping pills according to research findings.
- Fixed energy drink: now it removes 1 h of awake time (before it was 2x less potent than water).
- Buffed sleeping pills by 15%. Now 1 pill gives 1 h of awake time equivalent for convenience.
Stamina
- I had to tweak stamina values because of the new scale but stamina isn't based on research. I tried to leave things mostly as they were since I don't feel confident with stamina stats (too many variables in a convoluted form). I also tried not to be on the walking simulator side.
- Stamina regeneration is influenced by the 3 needs, movement style and inventory weight (overweight is extra bad). Sprinting with full backpack without drinking and eating will drain stamina quickly.
- It makes a huge difference whether your backpack is 1/3 full, half full, etc.
- You won't get stuck when almost dead due to hunger thirst and sleep (previously you would a long time before death). You will slowly gain stamina when standing still. with 75% full backpack you can sprint about 10 s or run about 15 s and recover in 40 s.
- When backpack is 75% full and all stats are half-way to the end then you can sprint about 10 s or run about 40 s and you will regain stamina in 15 s when standing still.
- When all needs are satisfied and backpack is 75% full then you can sprint about 25 s or run infinitely. If backpack is 50 % full then you can sprint for 60 s.
- Stamina might not be balanced if you use only one of the stats install. I calculated and somewhat tested only the "everything" version.
More fun facts (both in real life and in game)
Food:
- Cooking shrinks meat mass by 33%
- Considerable amount of ethanol remains with cooked food (after 30 min of cooking at least 10%).
- Cooking reduces kcals by 10% in birds and 5% in land-animals
- Cooking is good for plants because it makes them easier to digest (higher kcals) and for meat because it kills bacteria.
- Body uses about 5% of kcals to convert food into glucose therefore glucose gives about the same amount of energy as same mass of sugar.
- Primarily point of glucose injection is to get energy fast.
- Tobacco and marijuana smokers eat tiny amount more.
- Alcohol doesn't increase appetite and probably just leads to higher energy intake. However, there's no clear evidence for the latter.
Water:
- 1 ml of pure alcohol removes 10 ml of water.
- Low % alcohol (beer) actually hydrates. Sure you pee more but you still keep some extra water. Also beer has minerals in it so that improves its hydration in Stalker sense.
- With normal diet 25% of water intake comes from food.
- Food doesn't dehydrate. Your mouth may dry when you eat crackers but in your whole body nothing changes or you even gain water. Think about eating cucumbers and extrapolate to sausages.
- Diarrhea increases amount of shit (normal is 100 g) from 100 to 1500 g (excess water) depending on severity.
- You pee 1.25x more with energy drinks (400 mg of caffeine).
- Some poor lady did a painful suicide by dehydration. It took about 9 days.
- Adult has about 7% of his body mass as blood.
- 2% of blood volume loss per minute is heavy bleeding.
- Usually people die when they have lost 40-50% of their blood.
Sleep:
- 400 mg of caffeine = 1 h of extra awake time on average
- If you drink coffee in the morning about 20 % of caffeine is still in your body in the evening.
- People don't feel when they have sleep debt (they get used to it) but performance is lower.
- Alcohol consumption decreases sleep quality.
Similar mods
Those mods did similar thing with different values and goals. Check them out too!
- Tkcrits' Immersive sleep - It makes too much sleep impossible. My mod needs to overwrite Immersive sleep and patch needs to overwrite my mod.
- PossuM's FAMINE - Food Economy - it balances foods and makes game harder. Unfortunately attempts similar thing from different angle so files conflict. It would require a large joint effort to combine the features of both mods.
- PossuM's TRAUMA - Health Item Rebalance - it balances medical items. In strict sense that mod isn't compatible but the only problem is that hunger, thirst and sleep scales are different (well that and my calculations about caffeine and glucose). PossuM told me not to make a patch yet.
- Arszi's Thirst overhaul - Included in this mod and patrially taken over/modified.
- TheMrDemonized's Advanced Stamina System (ASS) - modifies stamina somewhat (apply the patch).
Conflicts
I'm willing to look into conflicts and make some patches but I need your input. I won't patch the whole Moddb on my own initiative just because maybe someone wants something someday.
- Soft conflict (no crash): everything that adds new items that have hunger, thirst or sleepiness values. They are probably using the vanilla scale so eating 2 cans of (new) chilli would drain (Vanilla behavior) approximately 2 l of water from you. Just need to multiply hunger, thirst and sleepiness with appropriate constant. By default the respective constants are 0.05, 0.11174 and 0.32323.
- Soft conflict: everything that tries to modify hunger, thirst and/or sleepiness values in item_*.ltx files and actor.ltx. Problem is with different scales and balance but why would you install my mod if you plan to overwrite it?
- Conflict: everything that tries to modify actor_status*.script (* is a wildcard character) files. In case of conflict with actor_status.script (without *) merge/overwrite my changes into the other mod.
Patches/merges/already contained
- HyperionSTG's Exact satiety, hydratation and sleepiness status. Overwrite with my mod and and apply the patch.
- Bvcx's Hunger, thirst, sleepiness bars. Overwrite with my mod and you have the functionality of both. As of v0.71+ you also need to apply my patch.
- Legapon's Patch Hunger, Thirst, Sleepiness Bars. Overwrite with my mod and you have the functionality of both.
- Tkcrits' Immersive sleep. Overwrite Immersive sleep with my mod and then apply the patch! Patch includes also Food drugs & drink animations patch for Immersive sleep.
- Artifax's Outfit Attatchment Overhaul's Github newest version 1.3 (2022.01.24): Github.com. Overwrite with my mod and apply the patch.
- Arszi's Dynamic Radiation Zones and Radiation Overhaul V2.1 thirst features are included (switch on through MCM). Bleeding and movement have been incorporated properly in v3.0.
- BudBone's Food Drug & Drink Visual Accuracy Tweaks v2. Apply the patch.
- Bazingarrey's Actor Rework V1.21 (default version's Actor Rework V1.21 version). Apply the patch. Didn't merge changes to stamina drain because that would mess up my stamina calculations.
- TheMrDemonized's Advanced Stamina System (ASS). Apply the patch)
- Bvcx's Cold System 0.6. Apply the patch.
Installation
Use mod manager or drop and merge gamedata folder to Anomaly main folder. Works with old saves but needs might be initially different (different scale). You could just satisfy your needs completely before installing but not strictly necessary.
- Choose type. Pick DLTX or non-DLTX version. DLTX version requires you to install DLTX (https://www.moddb.com/mods/stalker-anomaly/addons/dltx-differential-ltx-loading) but is compatible with mods that change other aspects of the LTX files (this version merges LTX files). Non-DLTX version is an ordinary mod, it simply overwrites the files.
- Choose sub-mod. Pick which part (hunger, thirst, sleep or everything) you want. If you don't pick the "everything" version then values are changed only for the picked characteristic (hunger, thirst or sleep) and everything else remains the same as in vanilla. Meant to be played with everything and otherwise stamina might not be balanced.
- Install. Drop the picked sub-mod's gamedata folder from into Anomaly's main folder or enable it from the Mod Organizer 2. If you don't set the priority to my mod then it's pointless to install (balance will be off if something overwrites my files).
- Install standalone addons. Drop the standalone's gamedata folder into Anomaly's main folder or enable it from the Mod Organizer 2. IMPORTANT!: if you install new items you probably can't uninstall them without starting a new game.
- Add patches. Add relevant patches depending on the mods you use.
- IMPORTANT!: when updating this mod from v2 to v3 redefine variables in MCM ("default" and then "apply"). If you don't do that then previous version values are used in the new system. Some things will break.
- Uninstall. Revert the files back to previous version or delete them to revert them back to vanilla. Or just disable the mod and patches from Mod Organizer 2. Again this might result in different needs (different scale).
How did I do it?
A month of article hunting, coding and calculating. It all began from the fact that I tried to make LTX values better understandable (1 unit = 1 l of water). Then I thought that while I'm at it I could scale the values more realistically. Then I had to recalculate everything in LTX files that touched hunger, thirst or sleepiness. That grew into higher resource caps and research and so on. Eventually the mod grew into this beast.
I also tried to make hunger more universal but after digging through engine code it became too big of a hassle. I could have done it only by intercepting all communications between LUA scripts and engine code. As of v2 some hunger features are editable through MCM. I made it possible by recalculating stamina and satiety periodically.
Possibilities for improvement
- Balance item costs? I really don't know whether I broke the generic balance or not. Definitely foods and drinks cost more per day now due to increased needs.
Final words
You can modify my changes or ideas in any way you want but if your mod bases largely on my mod then please give credit. If you find problems, bugs, conflicts or generally annoying things then write them in the comments! I haven't had much time to actually play Anomaly so it's possible some bugs slipped through my testing. Finally I did get some inspiration from mentioned mods, included Arszi's thirst features here and used some of Anomaly devs' code.
Used scientific articles
I made sure that everything is accessible with at least 1 click. Nothing is behind a paywall. In non-LTX version files have comments that have those references. It's easier to read comments from files than to read all the articles here. There's an article from which I calculated the kcals of snork hand (human meat). Go on, find it, its a dare!
Nutrition:
Water:
Rest:
Changelog
v1.0:
- First release for hunger, thirst and sleep
- Didn't touch radiation, alcohol sleepiness nor health
- Stamina isn't as good as I'd like but then again it also isn't worse than before.
v2.0
- Added MCM support with most values being editable. Input type options currently don't work in MCM so these are replaced with sliders. Russian speakers can enjoy the wonders of Google Translate.
- Less hardcoded variables and some extra variables for user comfort
- Tested only the biggest things in "everything" version
- Added a patch for Artifax's Outfit Attatchment Overhaul's Github newest version 1.3 (2022.01.24): Github.com. Apply the patch and overwrite with my mod.
- Included thirst features from Arszi's Dynamic Radiation Zones and Radiation Overhaul V2.1 in the files (by default switched off). If you want the features then switch it on from the MCM menu! You can merge the mods with DLTX (items and other features) but let my mod overwrite Arszi's!
- Added a patch for Swergdach's Artefact renovation.
v2.1
- Improved patch for HyperionSTG's Exact satiety, hydratation and sleepiness status
- Fixed MCM variables resetting on game load
v2.2
- Added Spanish translation. Spanish speakers can enjoy the wonders of Google Translate.
- Fixed some cooked foodstuffs that didn't inherit correct values
- Food kcal descriptions change with MCM multiplier for satiety
- Fixed the 3 MREs' descriptions for new kcals (for default values, the text is hardcoded and won't change with MCM multiplier)
- Added a patch for Tkcrits' Immersive sleep v1.2.1 (didn't change script logic). Overwrite Immersive sleep with my mod and then apply the patch!
- Added a patch for Fillable canteens 0.4.7 (weak diarrhea from dirty water)
- Added a patch for Arszi's Campfire roasting
- Couldn't test everything (v2.1 stays as a backup)
v2.3
- Fixed a comment typo (":" instead of ";") in LTX files. dltxify-ing the files (DLTX version) added an empty section which crashed the game.
- Changed my patch for Immersive sleep so that it includes also Food drugs & drink animations patch for Immersive sleep.
- Added a patch for BudBone's Food Drug & Drink Visual Accuracy Tweaks v2
- Added a patch for Bazingarrey's Actor Rework V1.21 (default version's Actor Rework V1.21 version). Didn't merge changes to stamina drain because that would mess up my stamina calculations.
v3.0
Just in case back up your save game before applying this mod! IMPORTANT!: you need to apply default values in MCM and tweak the settings again if you have used this mod before. I don't know how old savegames behave with mod updates but I didn't get any immediate crashes.
- Took movement into account for hunger and thirst. Base needs are lower (2100 kcal/day, 2 l water per day) but movement increases needs according to movement type (extra needs: walking - 170 kcal/h and 0.15 l/h, running - 820 kcal/h and 0.3 l/h or sprinting - 1670 kcal/h and 1.7 l/h).
- Introduced water (0.5 l) and food (3000 kcal) reserve. Eg. now you can build some fat reserves and still die when lacking 20 000 kcals. If you're fat it'll take longer to die.
- Researched bunch of stuff (satiety and sleepiness from alcohol, ethanol retention in cooking, water loss from movement, bleeding amount etc).
- There's speculation but no clear evidence for long-term energy gain from alcohol. Therefore, I divided alcohol satiety gains by 2 (except for 3rd tier meats since ethanol content is lower).
- Alcohol consumption decreases sleep quality but there aren't clear numbers. Calculated sleepiness increase to be 1 h per 75 g of ethanol (3 h from a bottle of 40% vodka).
- Previous estimate for ethanol retention with cooking wasn't far off so I didn't change LTX values.
- Heavy bleeding (hit from sniper round) drains 126 ml of water per minute. Max bleeding can be 420 ml/min (do not confuse with bandage bleeding reduction, it's a different thing).
- Changed Arszi's water loss from bleeding to be correlated with bleeding amount not game difficulty. Also added an MCM variable to tweak that value.
- Reworked hunger and thirst variables from hour-based to liter-based system (movement calculations are more transparent).
- Adjusted thirst damage function to take into account MCM value changes.
- Added optional install for new 4x bigger foodstuffs (essentially copy-paste from original foodstuffs). Those are 2 tiers more rare. You probably can't uninstall this during active save unless you are prepared to start a new game.
- Tested only very basic things. You can expect some bugs.
v3.1
- Fixed MCM values resetting on game load. Problem was that I had to read MCM variables during actor_on_first_update instead of load_state callback.
- Improved my patch for HyperionSTG's Exact satiety, hydratation and sleepiness status. Now thirst amount in item descriptions isn't hardcoded to default MCM values. Added also precise sleep amount in item descriptions.
- Removed a duplicate vodka from standalone bigger foodstuffs. If you have used the standalone before then don't update the standalone unless you want to start a new game!
v3.2
- Fixed tushonka's satiety value (2.4 times more nutritious). Mistake came from misunderstanding "corned beef" meaning in kcal calculator.
- Added a patch for TheMrDemonized's Advanced Stamina System (ASS) (update 8).
- Changed utils_ui.script into a monkeypatch which is loaded last in script load order. Patches for Ishmaeel's Nitpicker's modpack - StatsDisplay and Swergdach's Artefact renovation are now redundant.
v3.3
- Made eat_satiety magnitude (multiplier that modifies cosmetic kcals) be changed on first update and after a pause. Before it was overwritten by some mod that changed stats_table on first update.
v3.4
- Fixed a crash because stats_table wasn't initialized before monkeypatching it. Luki_Hofi helped to test and fix the bug.
v3.5
- Fixed dehydration regenerating health instead of draining it. The problem was a missing minus.
- Fixed hunger calculations acting weird on sleep. Also now there's more (but also correct) hunger drain with sleep. The problem was that I didn't update last_chk_2 on sleep and didn't account for hours slept.
- Fixed fat reserve calculations being off. The problem was that I didn't account for the satiety changes that take place in the engine.
v3.6
- Fixed satiety multiplier not changing kcals amount visually.
- Fixed patch for HyperionSTG's Exact satiety, hydratation and sleepiness status. Satiety multiplier doesn't modify its shown value anymore.
v3.7
- Updated for Anomaly v1.5.2 (status indicator fix).
- Updated patches if parent mod had updated. I advise to do a clean install for them, especially for OAO patch.
v3.8
- Fixed passing out every time you drank if you were deep in red indicator range.
- Added patch for Bvcx's Cold System 0.6.
- Added patch for Bvcx's Hunger, thirst, sleepiness bars 0.71. It's not for Legapon's "Patch Hunger, Thirst, Sleepiness Bars" (patch for that is included in the script already).
[Notice board]
As of July 2022 I will be away from modding. I estimate the order of magnitude of my leave to be 6 months. In the mean time if something breaks then anyone proficient enough can take over/ make patch-mods.
The mod is meant to be played with all three needs ("everything" version). Stamina might not be balanced in individual need versions (a lot of convoluted calculations and testing).
If you encounter any bugs (check that it isn't a feature) or something annoying then let me know! I don't necessarily chase absolute realism and if I have to choose between fun and realism I choose fun (regarding my preferences).
v3 reworks hunger and thirst to take into account movement type (standing, walking, running, sprinting) and bleeding.
IMPORTANT!: you need to apply default values in MCM and tweak the settings again if you have used this mod before and are updating from v2 to v3. I don't know how old savegames behave with mod updates but I didn't get any immediate crashes. Just in case back up your save game before applying this mod!
[Notice board cont.]
I'm back, ignore me-being-away message.
Updated to v3.7 for Anomaly 1.5.2 (should work with 1.5.1 too).
Does I need restart a new game ? thanks for your good job ^^
Holy ****, nice feature list. Kinda exhausted from doing my current install but seems like a must-have mod for sure.
Don´t make a patch for Trauma, I was thinking about porting it to BHS evolution branch in the future anyways, as well might port the features from Famine that I find important to this. It´s not even that much I think, jack up the prices, make sure mutant meat gives you a good rad dose, multiply the penalties for sleep and thirst with your new formula, make it work with campfire roasting, that´s about it I guess. Not that much, I´ll procrastinate for months though
Will this work with body health system?
Huh, was gonna ask same question
Yes it does. I'm using Grok's version: Moddb.com.
Finally I can replace my life with STALKER
very pog
kudos
upd:
i did something with scripts and made it work with OAO and without FATAL ERROR
so ye, if u interested - dm me, but im pretty sure u can change several lines in thirst script yourself
Proper OAO newest Github version patch included in v2.
ty dude, godspeed!
omg so much changes and so much research, the stalker anomaly community is giving me a lot of hope for the future
Amazing work!
Only thing. Last github Outfit Attachment Overhaul version modifies "actor_status_thirst" for camelbak thing. I can't find the exact entry to edit.
I can't find the Github link and Moddb version doesn't modify actor_status_thirst.script. Could you point me to the Github version?
Github.com
Yep, that's it. Thanks.
Okay I'll need to write the functions into actor_status_thirst.script and additionally write a patch for the github version of camelbak_binder.script because right now it's hardcoded to the previous scale (10 000 units is 1.1 liters of water). I'll look at it in a week or two.
In the mean time a quick way to avoid a crash is to compare OAO's actor_status_thirst.script with the vanilla one and copy-paste the added functions (not the lines of code inside old functions) into my script. That way there's no crash but camelback won't influence thirstiness either. If you also copy the new lines of code into old functions then camelback will simply give a HUGE boost in thirstiness reduction (different scales).
Thanks!
OAO newest Github version patch included in v2.
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This is real quality. Amazing what poeple with motivation can acomplish. Great work, and thank you!
Sounds fantastic! Sadly I don't think ill be able to use it. I use timescale mods now, so that would most likely conflict in a lot of ways.
Still, worth it to play the game without sprinting literally everywhere just to get a couple things done a day eh?
Anyway, great work! Well thought out and well executed! Keep it up!
Read the description, rated it with a solid 10 for the science involved and THEN I downloaded it! :D
Spoken like a true internet generation enjoyer.
Just appreciating the effort put in the research.
Thank you for an amazing addon!
Just leaving a comment to show my interest in a full patch for immersive sleep!
Patch included in v2.2.
(buried)
oh no... can we please, please stop 'fixing' games based on real-life scientific research papers?
I'm sure this may well be an excellent mod, but this trend of balancing stuff based on what it's like in real life usually doesn't make much sense within the context of a game.
Games require balancing of their simplified mechanics to be relative to other simplified mechanics that govern them, not to real-life per sey. It's like fixing balancing of chess because horses don't jump two fields forward and one to the left in real life.
I've seen so many mods for so many games where someone spent a year redoing bullet trajectories, size, damage and molecular structure based on real-life and somehow ended up making the game worse.
Just saying - easy with the real-life scientific papers as reference for balance :), not ******** on your mod per sey!
I agree with you about realism vs game fun/balance. The point is that eg. death from thirst because you didn't drink 1.1 liters of water didn't make sense. Also it was annoying that your stomach (and fat reserves) size was 1000 kcal and eating 2 bars of chocolate was already a waste of resources. I started with just wanting to make a foundation for intuitive values.
I'm thinking of adding MCM support so everyone could set their own needs and even how much resources every item gives. After all preferences vary (I'm personally more into Misery stuff). In the water example you could set your needs to 1 l/day but still have death in 3 days etc.
I did research because I knew absolutely nothing about the topic and the research was anyways a guideline to get the values in the right order of magnitude. Point being that I think balancing the game on intuitive values is easier than with arbitrary values. And finally take such mods as just extra opportunities which you don't have to take but give more options to choose from.
Good response and what you're saying makes sense - I just always get frightened when I hear 'improved the game based on real-life science data' hahaha :)
You're also entirely correct on the point of intuitive vs arbitrary values - always aim for intuitive as possible indeed.
By all means, an MCM would be a god send.
I've tweaked thirst values heavily for myself seeing as I was using arszi's excellent radiation mod which unfortunately also gets pretty whack on thirst from bleeding etc, so I'd significantly slowed it down, all the more considering that I'm using traders overhaul and scarcity on top.
Another thing that was infuriating me about thirst on medium settings was that your vision would start to go blurry so fast - it didn't make any sense.
You can edit most values with MCM in v2.
The fact that you were downvoted for having a difference of opinion is kind of sad.
I was actually looking through all of this thinking if this will improve my game experience or make the game tedious instead. I want hunting and cooking to actually be important, but I don't want to have to eat every 20 minutes, lol.
You know I came back to this thread accidentally now, after months and only through your comment realised there is a voting system. LOL
I'm soul-crushed to now know that I have been downvoted ;) but the author's classy and reasonable response makes up for it.
I now wonder how much I must have been up or downvoted on reddit or nexus mods without ever realising it's a thing :D
anomaly is a public project on moddb and there's content for different preferences, if you can't understand the concept of some add-on, then don't use it. ins't obvious?
there's no purpose to complain about it.
the community has been requesting for authentic survival experiences and that's the purpose of this add-on. but in your simian opinion, users need to reject any concept that you consider unnecessary in a game for it to be nice.
Hi. Haha, oh boy... I did understand the concept and yes - it is obvious.
I wasn't ******** on the mod, just made a humorous remark based on years of observation of mods based on 'real life scientific data'. Clearly something the mod author grasped in a nice response he gave me, that I think you (in your simian opinion - take that!) in turn didn't. Don't stress so much about it though, not worth it.
Ive been wanting a mod like this since back when COP was the main game to mod. Thank you for this OP.
Oh man, I can already tell pairing this with FAMINE and Fill-able Canteens will be awesome, not to mention the campfire roasting addon will go well with it. Excited to start playing with this, I'll be sure to rate once I test it out fully!.
Would you be open to making a patch for Arszi's Radiation Overhaul? It contains an updated version of his Thirst Overhaul.
please see my comment above on the by the by of this mod - the mod is stellar but it's thirst settings are whack, so this could be an opportunity to fix them up perhaps
So did you just let this overwrite ARO or did you merge, and if so, what did you keep from ARO?
just import all missing functions from ARO to this mods scripts, if the game crashes - look at log and do that again
this is very blunt and straightforward - some things may not work as intended, but the game will work
in the meantime you can upload your patched script and people will test it, maybe you will even make something working and free some other people from waiting or digging through scripts
either way - win-win
tldr - mod is well made, just import missing stuff
I just kept the rad stuff from ARO. We'll see how that goes.
Sorry I should have been more clear. I didn’t install this mod as of yet, I have ARO among many others combined and once I installed everything and was done, I’d adjusted the file manually, modifying some values both from Arszis and from vanilla game.
I'll look into it in a few weeks but here's the todo list and ideas for the patch for Moddb.com :
* All LTX files (items and actor.ltx) have radiation values changed. DLTX solves the problem since I didn't touch radiation. Manual copy-paste merge method works too of course.
* actor_status_thirst.script isn't called from other scripts (overwriting ARO's script with my mod's script shouldn't cause a crash unless something extra is added in LTX file but overwriting my mod's script with ARO's script will probably mess up stamina calculations)
* copy-paste functions and pieces of code from ARO to my script
* check the math and scale values if needed
* lower base water loss to accomodate water loss from movement (or make standing, walking and running have negative water loss)
Sounds good
Hi, I merged ARO and the non-LTX everything version yesterday. Only real problem is the thirst script. Still get callback errors, but I´m on it. For everybody that want´s both but can´t merge the files themself, it is safe to overwrite ARO with this mod. You lose the feature of higher water needs if bleeding or irradiated from ARO and some drinks/food will heal irradiation again. But beside this it works. Fast fix would be to simply delete all instances of radiation healing from the food and drinks ltx files.
At Banjaji: I still need to test this to see how it works out, but I want to thank you. This aspekt has always bothered me but I didn´t had the motivation to sort it out myself. As feedback, I saw that you calculated the kcal´s for the food based of the food´s weight. Per default the weight of some foods is totaly off. 315g cans of beans or stew are very uncommen were I live. 500g/800g would be more commen. This would considerbly rise the kcals per can. Same goes for some other items. I will edit this in my owne files and see how it turnes out. I would advise you to have a look as well. Another thing, by no means I have frontline experience or have lived in the zone. But I do mountain hiking, bushcrafting, bodybuilding and do keep track of my daily kcal intake. With quite average 1,83m and 82kg weight, I know that I´m capable of 1h jogging with 15kg luggage and benchpressing 100kg without a problem with just a kcal intake of 1800kcal daily for at least 3 months. Of course this comes at the cost of losing bodyfat, and yes thats my yearly definition routine. I just want to note that if your body is used to it you can delivere high performances over months with way less than 4000kcal a day. If the majority of players think this mod is to hard, it wouldn´t be too unrealistic to create a version with lowered ckal needs ;) As for now, I will do some ingame testing and see how it turnes out. Thanks again for your work. If this works, it will be great.
A way to fix the food weight problem is to copy-paste foods as new items and just scale them larger. I don't want to change the kcal values of foods because those values are the only thing keeping the foods similar to real life (intuitive). I did add a MCM option to tweak how much kcals you get from eating in v2.
I have no idea how you manage to survive on so low kcals. That's the amount of small girls living in cities. The only explanation I can give is that you're an outlier and just have different metabolism. I do believe that good performance is possible with lower kcals/day but I think that it comes at the expense of health over the years.
Well and if we want to give reasonable doubt/possibility for 4000 kcals then you are 10 kg lighter than the character, you carry 35 kg less stuff (armor has a weight too) and probably not 24/7, you don't sprint 16/7 like your life depended on it, you don't have to heal your wounds so often and my final argument is that most MRE-s (combat regime) are usually in 3000-5000 kcal/day range.
Hi, the fitness guy again. Just created an account only for the reply. As I said, I´m no soldier and do believe that the 4000kcals are a reasonable value for a one-man-army like the actor. Sorry if that sounded different. I just wanted to share my personal expirance with you, since you did quite some work researching the topic. Thought you might be interested :) As for your mod values, they work great for me.
On how I´m still not dead, I have this lifestyle for roughly 8 years now. In the bodybuilding scene this is acutally quite usuall. You alter you kcal intake according to your goals, not your training. Typically you want to lose fat during the winter to look good in the summer (1800kcal daily) and add more muscle at the start of late summer (3200kcal or more daily). Your training load stays the same most of the time. In the deficit you need the stimulus to signal your body that it should keep the muscle, while in the gain phase you need it to trigger muscle growth. Your body does a great job at preserving energy in form of fat and muscle. Your body will use this mass to keep itself running if you are in a kcal deficit. It will also lower other non vital functions to lower your daily energy needs without you actual noticing (Weaker immunsystem, slightly lower heartbeat/body temp, higher demand of sleep). That is why proper muscle definition takes months to achieve. The art is to keep the deficit/abundance in the range that your body reacts in the disired manner but without lose too much muscle/gaining too much fat. I do this for fun only and would consider myself an amateur at best. But even on my level I do notice that his is highly unnatural. The pros that present themself on shows are mearly walking corpses nutriton wise.
But again, this is only true if you are living a comfortable life in a city with a warm bed. My honest feeling is rather, that even with hobbies like mine, you still simply don´t match the amount of exercise that an SOF opperator under field condition has to deliver. I train 4 days a week and ride my bike daily for 30 mins to go to work. At weekends I do hiking and stuff, but not every week of course. So even if I have 2-3 hours daily of intensive training, there is still plenty of time to recover (Play games :P ). I think I read somewear that the USMC advises 3500-4500kcals daily for there operators in the field. I dont think that these guys eat that much at the barracks. In the field on the other hand, they most likely will. And be it only to prevent diseases.
Interesting stuff. I'm thinking that in some bigger update I'll include satiety drain from movement speed (idea from Arzsi's mod). Then it would be so that standing uses some amount of satiety and water, walking more, running more and sprinting even more. If I get that system working then the default intake would be lower of course.
Included these features in v2. Enable them in MCM!