R.E.A.R.M. - "Rearmament Expansion And Redesign Mod" is an unofficial Homeworld 2 expansion and it adds number of new interesting and various units.
-- UPDATE: this model won't be used. Its purpose was to find a way for new Kadeshi ships. Thanks everyone for their opinions. --
First of all this is just a concept, something what took only an half of hour to make, test, 3D sketch, a low-poly model of what might be. You need to use your imagination to picture it as a finished textured nice model. Battlecruiser or maybe destroyer (but with hangar). Now, what do you think about it? I've put it here because people would surely miss it in the forum and I wanted discussion. Does it look Kadeshi? If it doesn't than why? Kadeshi never had ships of this size, so anything that big is a new thing. Also I don't really want my Kadeshi to build those things very much, (what I mean is almost never), I want them to concentrate only on tiny and huge, middle sized ships will be harder to get. But I want them to have this opportunity, so my idea is to unlock research of Battlecruisers only after you capture any enemy BC class ship.
So talk to me, do you like it? Would you change anything and why. What do you think about it.
Yeah and I'll probably delete the picture from here once it will fulfill its purpose.
1680 x 1050 px
The center part seems fragile. I think i know what you were going for with this, but if you make it longer, it would be more like the kadesh MS (which is modular btw, as seen on the concept screens from HW)
Can you tell me where I'll find those HW1 concepts? I've never seen the Needleship as a concept art to be honest.
Shipyards.relicnews.com
Interesting, I've never noticed Needleship among others. Thanks.
Looks like smth from Tefeari concepts )
Btw, what do you think about these ideas: Moddb.com
-Who is Tefeari.
-Nice ship, but definitelly more Taiidan than Kadeshi.
Tefeari and Vijil were making HW: Empires mod, you can look up here:
Moddb.com
72.233.90.11 - relicnews, actually )) Here's the theme about it there.
If the mod is dead, it means that the Light Cruiser concept was probably never been done.
I was contacting Tefeari, he said that he's not against if smbd uses he's or Vijil's concepts for modelling. Just mention his name )
"Sorry, but the mod was many years and many hard drives ago. I am not sure where the files are and they aren't neccesarily in any condition to use. Somewhere on relic forums is a link to our nebula level which has our nebula graphics and gas vein files included. Also, feel free to use our concept art for your ship design: Topnotchdentistry.com
, if you do please credit Vijil for the ship designs except for hugeneedleship.jpg which is done by someone else (if you use it, I'll figure out who, so you can give him credit)." (c) Tefeari
Ok, thanks for the info! Now I'm seriously considering making the Light Cruiser, maybe something else too.
I do like the direction his cuiser concept is heading. Maybe not some details, but the overall design.
it looks like a swarmer thing, maybe use a bit more of, the central spire style of a needle ship, but i think that it looks great, just not really like a bc
If it wouldn't be BC it wouldn't have the needle. And yes, it was inspired by swarmer of course, swarmer is one of the finest Kadeshi designs.
Ok, first off, great concept and model idea.
I always saw the Templar as being a BC my self. with this looking a little more like a big destroyer, Of carrier type ship.
I think if I was to keep it a battle-cruiser, I might dink with extending the tail a bit more.. maybe, 1/4 - 1/2 half more, And perhaps elongating the the lower front "Plates" further back, For a more armored look. Here is want I was thinking,. Just for a visual reference. Moddb.com --
Other then those thoughts, I think it's great.
"Templar" (Now it's called differently) is big. Mololu have made him two times bigger than BC, almost as big as Needleship. I like it that way but I just could call it BC.
It could be destroyer, the front would suggest it, but in that case I would personally remake the needle to be something else. Just normal engines and some kind of tale, but not needle.
I'll try the bigger needle, see what will it look like. If I would make the lower plates longer, they would probably just merge back into the model.
A tad more Roundish would go a long way. Other than that it looks great.
Don't worry, it would have to be more round, there are just few polygons now.
Personally I think this would fit a frigate better than a BC. The issue with the BC is that all the kadeshi capital ships (at least if you're using my templar and needleship) do away with the attributes of the smaller ships (face, angry style, etc) they go mainly from a needle concept.
If you made more capital ships with this style it would probably fit.
The one issue I have with the front is it's too blocky. If it were all smooth it might fit better. Also maybe lengthen the needle part while making the 'swarmer' part smaller?
Don't know, just tossing ideas around. The general look however I like.
Edit: and have a look at these, very good concepts someone on RN pointed me to : Forums.relicnews.com
-Don't get me wrong, but by "all capital ships" you really mean just Needleship and "Templar", which is your creation. Only official large Kadeshi capital ship is Needleship. And you just can't have ten mushrooms or jellyfish just divided by size into BCs, carriers, DDs etc.
What I'm trying to do here is obviously making the bridge between small and large.
-Blocky yes, but the finished model would of course look different and it certainly wouldn't be this sharp. This is just a concept, I could smooth it, but I was pretty sure that the smoothing would mess it up, there would be artefacts and it wouldn't render nice.
-I've seen those concept before. The Light Cruiser is really (I mean really) nice, but I don't find the second one to be Kadeshi at all.
But OK, less swarmer-like.
i think the needle should be a bit longer, but those are some cool concept images!
I will try the longer needle.
Dudes, these Kadeshi have a strange ships design. What kind of race are they? Humanoid? Aquatic?
And BTW I like that ship, what kind of weapons is it going to have? And yeah, I think a longer sting will be better.
The very same race as Hiigaran (Kushan back then), they are relatives.
One or two forward ion cannons and probably missiles (those pointy missiles of Mololu) in line on sides probably. Something like this.
So I have something to say. Many of you suggested it not to be BC. I know why. But here's the thing: it was meant to be just something between the large round ships and smaller normal ships. That's why it's half normal and half with needle. Now if I would make a destroyer out of it, which of course I can, it would loose the needle because the purpose of it it's not there anymore. It doesn't have to be hybrid then, it's just a small ship and then the rear could look better. Some of you said it should be even smaller, like frigate or even less. In that case also the middle section wouldn't be there, because it's the Needleship-like docking bay.
If it would stay as BC, it wouldn't loose the needle, but the front would probably have to be remaked and the whole thing should have design of something bigger. Anything swarmer in it would be probably unacceptable, because people tend to see it as smaller because of it.
Third option is to go more in the way of the concepts Mololu posted link to. Like the Light Cruiser which I really like. Scrap it completelly and make this.
I was actually going to use something similar to the light cruiser for my kadesh destroyer (the templar is simply too big for the role).
Don't really know what makes most sense. Going for the light cruiser look is refreshing but will require more ships shaped that way (destroyer, frigates) or it will look very out of place.
Going for a needle look would keep the capital-ships-are-needle-designs idea I laid down with the templar but as you say doesn't allow for much variation.
hard choice if you ask me... I really don't know. Sorry :( wish I could be more help but I've been running around this very same conflict for the past three weeks so my imput is more confused than it makes sense.
It's not confused and it makes perfect sense. Simply, it's complicated. And I love complicated design tasks in Homeworld modding (like the Cloaked fighter, maybe not that nice, but pretty complicated as well). This is all gonna be interresting, I'm looking forward to solving this. I'll think about it deeper and I'll make something else, I'm starting to having some nice idea already.
This design is probably not going to be used.
You need to think "why" would they design it like that. The Hiigaran BC is flat becouse the shipyard is flat, something like that happens with the Vaygr BC (only that verticaly)
Where will the Kadeshy BC will be build? If the design is based on a captured enemy BC, maybe it should look like a hybrid.
Also, think that the Kadeshy have a bug-like thing. Their mothership is like a hive, the Swarmers are... well, a swarm of the hive's inhabitants (flys, bees, whatever) . How would a BC fit in that scheme?
I disagree, I prefer to make shipyard for battlecruisers, not battlecruisers for shipyard.
But in general you have a good point about the shipyard, what will it be. I haven't thought about it, but it could be a in a form of cylinder, i won't require flat ships in any direction.
"If the design is based on a captured enemy BC" -it's like this:
Before I've got Mololu's Kadeshi, I was thinking about them (theoretically, making them was practically unreal) and my Kadeshi would have been different. They would be much less pure, they would capture the enemy ships and build ships directly based on enemy designs. So you would have something which reminds the Hiigaran or Vaygr BC, but it would be round and white. They would be hybrids (you know what is a good example? X-302 from SG, something like this).
Now when I have those Kadeshi, I'm thinking more about just unlocking the whole class by capturing any ship from that class.
Do you like the hybrids more? In current circumstances it doesn't seem as good idea as before. It would fit my Kadeshi perfectly, but probably not those Kadeshi, they are basically still the same as they were in the Garden.
I'll have to think about it.
Right at this point the Kadeshi capital ships are sea creatures: Jellyfish and squid.
Hmmm im not a fan of the hybrid idea, it seems more like the Turanic Raiders than the Kadeshi. They always struck me as more self serving than scavengers of other peoples tech, sure they may break down enemy ships but build them new based on their own design.
which is why we see the fuel pod, swarmer, multi ion frigate as completely independent shapes not designed on any pre existing faction, as they mentioned that others had come before.
I have really loved your designs and think this one shows alot of promise
The Spire is inspired by dragonfly, I guess.
But no, really, priority is the ship itself, schematics and blueprints, not the building factory. It really doesn't make sense, the BC isn't flat because of the shipyard, but shipyard is flat (or in any shape) because of the perfectly designed battlecruiser. Battlecruiser shape has a purpose, shipyard is just shipyard.
Hmm... Personally if the bit at the top, which comes back over rear section, was made longer it would make the ship look a little more sturdy...
Anyway, I like what your doing... with the mix of the swarmer front and the needleship rear... Something about that front section looks very aggresive and powerful, cant wait to see what you do with this initial concept :)
With this concept? I said, probably nothing. It appeared that the concept has many critical flaws, I'll try to find something better and different.
ok, first up, i think it looks fantastic. im not saying that it needs the longer needle, but it might be, as mentioned, something worth looking into. im thinking BC is probably better for this design, personally. mainly because i think anything smaller (cruiser, destroyer, etc) should have some kind of multibeam frigate look about it perhaps. not to say that there shouldnt be a swarmer/needleship look as well, but destroyers are kind the cross point between frigate and cruiser classes. i think keep this as a BC, but use the design maybe, taking out some of the front and making it more multibeam-like. i dunno, im really liking the idea of having the kadeshii with much more variety than it has had in the past. if were looking into BC concepts, we have to make the possibility of the ships in between, showing advancement. let me know if you think im wrong, but in all, i love this design :)
I'm not sure about this concept Pouk, I can't quite put my finger on what it is about it that doesn't work for me though.
Maybe sometimes a hybrid can be too compromised? I dunno.
Vijil's Light Cruiser concept is very nice though, and you have the modelling skills to execute it properly. I would very much like to see you have a go at modelling it, should you choose to go that way.
Okay, first up i'd just like to say that this has been a fantastic mod so far, and im excited to see what you do with the Kadeshi in it Pouk. Great work! =D
Right, jsut throwing in my little bit of input and there are two things i though about this ship when i saw this concept, read the comments and thought about how it could be intergrated into the Kadeshi fleet.
Model wise i like how you are trying to bridge the gap between the larger and smaller ships of the fleet and their different shapes, but id say that to make this look like a proper intermediate you'd have to add a little bit of the MBF into this design, perhaps by making the rear parts of the 'arms' more bulbous before they reach the mid part of the ship, kinda like the sides of the MBF. the look of the swarmer 'face' is good though, defenalty keep that :)
As for the purpose of the ship i think it should be a destroyer. Not just a regular destroyer though, because i always imagined the Kadeshi to have huge swarm fleets that could be supported in teh depths of space by only a handful of ships, and that most of them would have some shared universal function to manage and re-fuel the swarm, so if this were to be a destroyer it woudl be almost carrier sized but with the weapons of a destroyer but no production slots. This way an attack force of some of these destroyers could maintain the fighter swarm that surrounds them, but not actualy add any new squads to the fight.
If this was a destroyer it coudl possibly have 2 ions (one on each of the more swolen parts i sugested before) and some kinetic turrets all over its body, so it could hold its own against fighters, or perhaps slower tracking so they are only really useful agianst corvettes.
thats about all i have to say really. Hope it makes sense 'cos im really tired while im writing this.
keep up the great work on this fantastic mod Pouk :D
Again, I won't use this one. I'll give it another go and what I'll do this time is to make it more uniform. To add more MBF or Light Cruiser (by Vijil) on the front and to loose the needleshipness on the rear.
Right at this time I'm certain that I'll make Vijil's Light Cruiser, I hope people will like to see this thing to come to life. The actual BC will be more like a bridge (but not that literally this time) between Vijil's Light Cruiser and Templar, than what it is now.
Another idea of mine is to divide research to so called "generations" (what I mean is the next gen technology, not children of Kadeshi population).
So instead of research module and advanced research module you'll have second generation research etc. There would be three generations (just like factions, this will probably be how the factions would be divided).
Now let me explain. First generation are the Kadeshi from the Garden, those we know. So Needleship, "Templar" and swarmers, plus some older MBF and podships.
Another two generations would map the history of Kadeshi leaving the Garden.
So the second generation (the second technology level) would have some nebula weapons, Kadeshi would try to reorganize their tactics in order to survive outside of Garden. They could have some nebula emitters (so they can still feel like home and scramble enemy sensors) and just maybe they could have those hybrids I've been talking about. Still don't know about that, but it could be seen as baby steps in the Battlecruiser development. If people will be really agaist it than no. Every 2nd gen. swarmer could be cloaked (and fast) and they could have a similar toys which makes them act like in nebula without actually having the nebula.
Third generation are the Vijil's like ships. Proper Battlecruisers and other sleek ships like this. Maybe some heavy swarmers. Kadeshi fully adapted to life outside.
So in the faction gameplay they could be the standalone factions, you could choose the one you like, none would be really much weaker or stronger than other. As a race they would have a whole bunch of fighters and in the end game some heavy ships.
I really like the idea with the capture to unlock things!
On the concept, it's ok, but imo a little less unique, what I mean is you should try to find a very own style for those capital ships, maybe a bit orientated on the needle ships but still really different.
If you look at the other factions, capital ships have allways very unique designs.
Try to adopt typpical shapes and the skin and make the rest simply what you think looks really awesome. ;)
I very much like your faction idea, Pouk.
I was going to go with different 'sects' as factions but generations is a great idea too. Curious to see what you come up with!
Oh, and this idea just inspired me with a destroyer concept.
great
Hey look how many interest a single screenshot has drawn. This mod is growing popular with every passing second. I`m happy for you Pouk :)
Nice idea BTW for that cylindrical shipyard.
This picture really has a lot of comments, I was originally going to delete it, but I most likely won't because of it. Even the ship in this form won't be in mod.
And really thanks.
Now I have a tiny sketch of this thing from a side view, the design is strongly modified to match the style of Vijil's light cruiser. At this moment I can't show you, because I have nothing to take the picture with.
(In regards to post on Kad reseach generations) Oh man that sounds great... not dissimular to an idea for a storyline (and how the ships evolve with the storyline) that I had, but I never considered using reseach tiers to unlock each segment of the story while playing multiplayer.
That sounds just a little bit crazy when you put it like that (realtime multiplayer evolution), but we want our well known Kadeshi and at the same time we won't accept more 100 years to do nothing with them.
And this concept just works for me on so many levels: Old versus new, research, factions (because we have basically just Ion weapons), logical reason to give them so many fighter types, (maybe some SP possibilities in the future capturng Kadeshi in any time between WH1 and HW2), using Mololu's ships and Vijil's concept at the same time...
Hehe, you want to go into history... read my insanely long post about my non-cannon view of the history of the Kadesh from their first beginning to start/end of HW2. It's well written. Okay, maybe not written well enough to be published in a book, but it's well thought out. But it certainly opens plenty of opportunities for originality, and completely new stuff out of the blue, while providing a direction for Kadeshi design to follow.
I really like the generations idea, but on the topic of cloaking, is there some way to automate it? instead of having to click the cloak button have them automatically cloak when an enemy enters sensor range?
I don't really know, I would have to ask the right people. This a scripting question.
With scripting it's possible, otherwise, no, you can't cloak autoamtically over ship files.