Global mod for STALKER SHoC, intended to recreate a highly atmospheric Zone with highest possible quality, stability of the game, rich gameplay and loyalty to the canons of the Sci-Fi genre.

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Feedback #3: wounded AI...weapons... (Games : S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl : Mods : Old Good STALKER Evolution : Forum : OGSE 0.6.9.2 discussion : Feedback #3: wounded AI...weapons...) Locked
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Mar 5 2012 Anchor

I haven't played the mod since the last time I reported, but there were a few things that I forgot to mention that I remember now, so here goes...

SUGGESTIONS
One of the more tragic consequences of real combat is the frequency of not being immediately killed by small arms fire. All too frequently, the target is badly wounded, and cries out in pain and terror for help, and/or a loved one. This almost never happens in STALKER, and having played a mod for another game that did everything it could to reproduce such terrible realities, I will attest to how it makes one's heart race for a number of reasons; it is also quite emotional (a first for me for a shooter). The mod that I was using was called "SLX" and it was for the original Bohemia Interactive title "Operation Flashpoint," now available as a digital download renamed as Arma: Cold War Assault.

That mod shook me to the core. To hear friend and foes alike, crying out for help, well, it wracked my nerves and greatly amplified the sense of tension, both tactically and emotionally. Something that never really concerned me before in a first person shooter suddenly became very important: coming to the rescue of my wounded comrades. They would roll on the ground, if they could muster it, they would also cry in agony. If they were too badly wounded, or had bled out too much, they would whimper and moan pathetically till they fell unconscious. The more they bled out, the less frequently they would cry out. One could keep track of their state of dying by tracking the length of time between their cries and then their moans.

The mod's designer worked wonders with the AI. All soldiers, on both sides, would heroically try to save their badly wounded buddies, and were even smart enough to drag them to some concealment and cover, before trying to save their lives by applying first aid. And just because you or an AI-teammate was given first aid, didn't mean that one was fully healed - most of the time you weren't. It was likely that you'd have a difficult time keeping your aim due to weakness and pain, and one could maybe walk 5-10 m. before dropping one's weapon and collapsing onto the ground for 10-15 sec. due to the pain. Sometimes the original wounds were so bad that the most that first aid could do for you was have you crawl. This mod was as popular as it was powerful, so much so that Bohemia Interactive incorporated its aspects into their sequels.

If you have never tried it, and already own Operation Flashpoint/Arma CWA, then I strongly urge you to find the mod and try it; I promise you that you'll never forget it. I'd like to caution with using other mods that incorporated PORTIONS of SLX into them, by far the most popular being the "FFUR" series of mods. FFUR's chief designer, Thunderbird, had the wounding system and buddy aide incorporated into the earlier builds of FFUR, but then removed those features due to the system drain they caused. The odds of finding a workable download link for an earlier build of FFUR+SLX is pretty low, and your odds are much higher to find a working version of the original SLX mod alone.

If there is ANY way of designing such a system for STALKER, I guarantee that it would seriously shake player's to the bones. Seriously, listening to wounded men cry out for help, even if they're enemy, really rattles a person's nerves. Seeing men come out to rescue a fallen buddy is also very moving to see, even if you're watching them through your sights. I can't imagine how stressful it must be in real life. Having AI become too wounded to fight back as they're being consumed by a mutant would also be a terror to behold. It sounds absolutely disturbing just to imagine, but it's not hard to find real stories of people who survived a terrible attack from a wild animal describe what it's like to be alive as one's flesh is being consumed.

If this is pursued, I'd contact Solus (SLX's creator) to see if he'd let you use the wounded speech system he designed. He had a whole set of dialogue made in Russian, and it should be "ready to go" for incorporating it into STALKER should he give his blessings.

The only drawback of the AI with SLX's system, is that too frequently the AI wouldn't take enough time to secure the area before moving in to rescue his buddy. It was quite easy to deliberately wound an enemy target and use them as "bait" for healthier AI. Yeah, I did use this slimy tactic, and it made me feel like an a$$hole for doing so. One of my veteran-friends said that whenever a comrade was wounded that it was hard to stay tactically smart and to take the time to clear and secure the area first, as this is very time consuming, and your friend is bleeding out in agony all the time. BUT to do anything otherwise was foolish, so... If you go this route, I'd make sure that the AI cautiously canvases a large area (perhaps 30 m. in diameter) before they'll move in to drag their wounded buddy to someplace hopefully "safer" before giving them first aid.

Combat is a TERRIBLE thing. Humans are NOT designed to murder another human being, and it would be a testimony to those who have survived combat to model what we can of its awful realities.
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Custom Weapons Are NICE
The variant AK "Dream," the one with the drum magazine and grenade launcher is a weapon that's astounding to use. I compared its stats with Strelok's modified AK, and I decided to use the Dream instead. It just seemed a little strange to me that in its description it stated that it couldn't be mounted with a holosight. I guess that this is for balancing purposes, since its firing rate has been amplified and its bullet spread reduced, but... from looking at the models that were found on the ground outside the Research Center, they certainly look like they could be easily mounted with a Cobra or some other sight. Is there a more plausible statement that could be made in regards to this limitation in its Description? It just kind of sticks out like a sore thumb. The issue with Players (and not just me) is that when weapons can be modified/kitted out, they dearly desire to do so. To deny it just makes it more frustrating. Kind of like a cut girl that you want to kiss but can't, only with less gunpowder. :) I'd either allow the weapon to be mounted with a holosight and/or scope, or supply a believable reason why it's limited from not being able to do so. "Balancing out" the weapon is a reason that many won't find satisfying.

No matter what's done to the AK Dream, if there are more plans to incorporate modified weapons such as this, then I encourage it. To me, discovering and/or earning them makes them more of a prize than a rare artifact.


There used to be videos of SLX in action for OFP, but I can't find a decent one that features the wounding and AI system.

Here's a video link to Solus' work for Arma II. The video only shows a part of what it's capable of (you really don't see the AI trying to rescue a fallen comrade to then render first aid), but it's a small taste of what he masterminded. What you see in this video are enemy AI who were so badly wounded that they were either captured or they surrendered. Then the AI give them first aid. It's the best that I could find with the time that I have.

Youtube.com

Mar 6 2012 Anchor

If there is ANY way of designing such a system for STALKER

Such system was always even in original STALKER. The system in the mod lets you to cure anybody (except those from Monolith faction). The cured loner becomes friend and the cured enemy can become friend or neutral to you personally or remain hostile with some probabilities.

It just seemed a little strange to me that in its description it stated that it couldn't be mounted with a holosight.

The description in this part is wrong even in the russian version :( The sight for this weapon is "Docter". How to get it? You''ll see when continue playing.

Edited by: SimplyYuri

Mar 6 2012 Anchor

Someone wrote: The cured loner becomes friend and the cured enemy can become friend or neutral to you personally or remain hostile with some probabilities.


I never knew that this is possible in STALKER till now. I'll have to try giving first aid to a wounded enemy then, but the only time I have ever seen wounded stalkers need help is when it's scripted, and necessary to advance the storyline. Those opponents who've been wounded always fight till the end, or try running away for a bit. I've never seen any of the AI ever makes themselves completely vulnerable so that one could approach them to help them. I have also never seen an enemy get so badly wounded that they collapse, and then one of his comrades trying to work his way towards him to move him to safety so that first aid can be given. Maybe I'll try shooting some bandits in the legs to see if they'll drop their weapon, become totally vulnerable, and accept first aid from a friend or a foe.

What's amazing with the SLX mod for OFP is that what I describe is happening ALL of the time. Within a few minutes of battle, the sounds of the occasional moans and screams for help, makes the battlefield just TERRIBLE. All of that pain and fear being verbalized by helpless men, it really rattles your nerves and makes it hard to think clearly. I've yet to ever see a situation like this in STALKER. I wish that I knew what happened to all of the SLX videos that used to be available, as they were just amazing to watch. Playing it was even more disturbing. In all my years of playing a video game, I never actually "admired" an AI's courage for trying to drag a friend to safety to help him, but that happened all of the time with the SLX mod. It's such a mix of so many complex emotions at the same time that it genuinely feels surreal.

Again, if you have OFP, try out SLX. It truly is unforgettably horrific, emotionally jarring, and rattles one's thinking capabilities. And all of that without fantastical monsters being present: just real human ones.
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Someone wrote: The description in this part is wrong even in the russian version :( The sight for this weapon is "Docter". How to get it? You''ll see when continue playing.


That's very good to know. I'll keep my eye out for it as I rewrite the Russian-English translation. Just so you know, I told KamikaZze that it was perfectly fine with me to have what I'm adding to the dialogues brought over into the Russian version of the mod. I'm very happy to share. MOST unfortunately, I know very few Russian words to help more fully in this task. But the OGSE team is obviously EXTREMELY bright, gifted, highly skilled, and dedicated, so I have no worries in regards to how awesome such an English-Russian translation can be.

I don't want to be given any "spoilers," but I feel like I have to ask the following: what is a "Docter" site? Is its spelling translated correctly, or did you mean to spell it as "Doctor," as in a medical doctor, or...? Is it a brand name for a collimator sight, like the Cobra and EOTech? If so, could you supply a webpage (preferably in English) that sells them? I want to make sure that if I make any text alterations regarding its description that it's accurate. I tried multiple keyword searches, with no results. I'm hoping for a website like this one:
Binocularsmart.com

Hopefully it can be done. Thank you for your efforts.

Mar 7 2012 Anchor

what is a "Docter" site? Is its spelling translated correctly, or did you mean to spell it as "Doctor," as in a medical doctor, or...?

It's DOCTER, and it's German sights. Open Google and enter "docter sights".

Mar 7 2012 Anchor

VERY nice. Thanks for the extra bit of info.

Yeah, that collimater sight would look SWEET on the AK Dream. That would be a terrible weapon to be up against. The "AK Dream" is everybody else's nightmare!

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