The aim of this mod is to add in the old locations from ShoC and Clear Sky, and to provide an enhanced and extended gameplay experience while (mostly) sticking to the vanilla storyline. At this point, the mod (v0.45 alpha)contains 37 locations total, approx. 200 weapons, lots of new armors, items, artifacts and anomalies.
|a few suggestions on some of the weapons||Locked|
|Jul 1 2011, 11:10am Anchor|
(moved here from front page comments)
tmpwhore 3hours 51mins ago says:
Great Mod. I just have a few suggestions on some of the weapons. I own a few myself and was in the Army for a short stint so you could say I've fired a few rounds down range....:-)
FN FAL - should have a 20 round mag and more power, at least according to the crazy "bars" that show the stats. Should be very similar to sniper rifle but with Iron sights. Scope mounts for this rifle were limited so I suggest you leave them out. Suggested mods should be an upgrade to 30 rounds and an upgrade to selectfire automatic which would make it the SAW version. I was in the CDN army and we got trained on this initially and we had 2 versions. The riflemen got the semi only 20 round mag and the squad automatics got the selectfire with the 30 round mag with a bi-pod. I recommend you have it similar to the AKSU upgrade path you have now but instead of a firerate upgrade with the tier 2 you choose an "auto" upgrade instead. As it is it's kind of retarded and has the same power as the 5.56 rifles with the same mag size with almost no recoil. The recoil disallowed firing on automatic on most issued weapons. Trust me I've fired it and anything over 3 rounds on automatic you were shooting the sky. Would offset the greater power of the rounds. You could use this with an M14 model as well. Though there were more scope options(I own a civi M14)
SKS and the addition of 7.62x39 rounds. They have literally created millions of these rifles and they are dirt cheap and super reliable with about 20% more muzzle energy than a 5.56x45 or 25% than a 5.54x39. I got an unissued Russian interior ministry rifle with all accesories for $199 Canadian. So imagine how cheap it would be coming from Russia/Ukraine itself. Would be a good starting rifle for beginner stalkers, it would have better power than an assualt rifle(common ones in the game) but only a 10 round mag. However with the stripper clips it does reload surprisingly fast. May not be possible due to engine limitations. Back burner rifle.
Some of the weights of the weapons in the game need tweaking too. The biggest culprit is the P90 in the game its about 7 kilos, thats almost 14 pounds!!! Thats almost double a loaded M14 with a 20 round mag and creeping in on the M249 SAW without a belt! I highly doubt a small compact SMG is going to be double the weight of a fully loaded 7.62x51 battle rifle. It seems according to the internet that the SMG sits around 2.5 kilos unloaded. I understand you were probably trying to balance it out but thats a little crazy. I would reduce the power instead. Seems the 5.7 cartridge does a little more than 9mm muzzle energy but with better armour penetration. As it sits now it does more damage than a 5.56x45 which has 3 times the muzzle energy. I'm not sure if its possible but it should penetrate more but do less damage.
In fact that sort of mechanic should work for all the ammo in the game. Armour piercing shouldn't do more damage it should just penetrate armour better, similar to Fallouts damage threshold stat. I'm not sure how the xEngine calculates Armour Piercing vs Standard rounds but it could go like this:
every round should have a base damage modified by barrel length(if possible). In the game the Muzzle velocity upgrade I'm assuming would stand in for barrel length upgrades or whatever. Every armour would have a base damage negation or threashold that could be somewhat over ridden by armour piercing rounds. So for example lets say for the sake of argument every 5.56 round in the game has a base damage of 50 or whatever. An armour in the game say has a base damage reduction of 20 against non-armour piercing rounds. So if a guy gets hit with a normal fmj round the armour soaks up 20 of the 50 for a net damage of 30 points. An armour piercing round either has a +10 say against armour so the damage would be 50 - 20 + 10 so the damage would get through a little better and 30 damage would be done to the target. If the target was wearing zero armour both rounds would penetrate equally but they would both still do 50 damage. An armour piercing round doesn't do MORE damage it just penetrates better. Actually in the real world it would do slightly less damage as it doesn't tumble as easily in the wound channel.
If you wanted to simulate this effect the armour piercing round would actually do LESS damage but pierce armour better.
A way to do this is actually have the base damage of an armour piercing round slightly less. So say a standard FMJ 5.56 does 50 damage and an armour piercing does say 47 damage or whatever however I think the engine is limited to weapon damage not round damage.
Which brings me to another point, if the base damage is weapon specific it should be tweaked based on barrel length not the look of the weapon? For example why does the AKSU do so much more damage than a standard AK that shoots the same round but has 10 inches less barrel? You could give it a higher rate of fire as it has a shorter piston stroke but it should theoretically do maybe a few points less per round, which would be made up by a higher cyclic rate. I understand you want to make the unique weapons you find in the game special, but maybe make them not so super. Maybe for example the custom AKSU has a better muzzle brake than a standard one so there is less recoil, etc. Or have the "special AKSU" be the original one that uses 7.62x39 rounds which would make the damage level justified. Having a weapon with almost half the barrel length with the same cartridge do 25% more damage just is a little too much. If you want you can PM me or email me about how real firearms work if you want to make it a little more realistic. Its up to you.
Correction on bad math below, an armour piercing round due to the + 10 on armour would do 40 vs armour not 30 as with the fmj.
Also HP rounds could also work as well with the amour piercing modifier suggested below but in the negative model. HP rounds would have a higher base damage but a negative modifier against armour. So for example we'll use an armour with a base reduction of 20 again and a .45ACP round with a base damage of 50 again for simplicity. An HP round would have say a base damage of 60 but with a -15 to armour.
So damage would be calculated as such:
If the target was unarmoured the HP would do more damage but if the target was armoured the FMJ would do more damage. As it sits in the game now it seems the Hydroshock rounds(HP) do more damage regardless if the target is armoured or not which is just silly.
|Jul 2 2011, 5:04pm Anchor|
Thanks Smrter for moving my post
After playing with the game a little more I have a few other things to bring to your attention:
Saiga - Great inclusion!!
However the iron sights for it are very off. Slugs and buckshot fire up and to the left by a far margin if you want to target a man sized object from say 50 meters or so you have to shoot to the right of their kneecap to get a chest shot. Buck shot is not too much of a problem due to the spread. Also I'm assuming it's the "K" model with the 10 round mag, the military version. This shotgun should be selectfire if possible, Semi and Automatic. I know you can add a PSO scope to it but it seems you can only add the 5x fixed site to it. I tried attaching the fixed 2.7x which makes more sense as it is a shotgun but no go. I'm not sure if a possible site attachment(attachable red dot instead??) is the way to go but I'm glad you included this shotgun in the game. I would if possible have the addition of tritium sights or just forget the scopes all together and make a tritium sight(glow in the dark) just part of the model if possible.
Another great shotgun! It's great as a backup weapon but the upgrade to a 10 round mag is a little much. I'm assuming by the picture it looks more like a cut down 870 with a 12.5" or 14" barrel. We are allowed in Canada to own these no problem. However the magazine is a little too unrealistic. I like everything about it as it is a lightweight backup shotgun but I would consider changing the name to an 870 shorty or something and reducing the mag size a bit. I would make the barrel a 14" and have the wilson combat +1 mag extension already installed. That gives you 5+1 rounds. Some people have installed the + 2 extension with the mag plug cap being about half an inch longer than the barrel which would give you 6+1 rounds. With a 10 round extension the mag tube would be like 5 inches longer than the barrel! If you're worried about the small mag cap just increase the damage slightly. So maybe the upgrade path, with all the usual stuff, would go as follows:
the shotgun in normal format is 6 rounds
If you are going to stick with this being the Benelli, Than I would suggest you add a "T" to the name which is the police type but you won't be able to put a +2 extension on it. Also I would make the "Auto" upgrade for the Benelli a "semi" option so you can fire it semi-automatically as it is a semi-pump auto to begin with.
I do like the fire rate with all the ROF upgrades however it's not too fast and what someone with a little practice can fire on a pump shotgun. Even I can fire about that fast and I sold my pump shotgun a long time ago. Some guys can fire even faster but I would leave it as it is if you are sticking with a shorty pump style weapon. It also would be nice to have a tru-glow or a tritium front bead to help in aiming. Right now the shorty doesn't have any bead at all but the barrel is pointy enough to not to be too much of a problem. Also if possible the slugs should do a little more damage they seem underpowered slightly.
A few other suggestions:
All these weapons are googleble so you can look up the specs yourself.
MP7 ammo upgrade I suggest to be +20 rounds not + 10. In the pistol configuration it has a flush mounted 20 round mag in the SMG configuration it has a 40 round mag. If you wanted to keep it as a pistol I guess just leave it. Or if it's possible it would be great that if you use 40 round mags you can't put it in the pistol slot but I don't think the engine can handle it.
RPK in 7.62x39
It has a 40 round mag but can accept 75 round drums as an upgrade. Has iron sights so you can actually fire it. Has a heavy barrel and bi-pod so it's quite a bit heavier. If you wanted to you could model an RPK-74 which is in 5.54x39 for simlicity. The RPK-74 has a 45 round mag and a 100 round drum as an upgrade. Would be an actual useful SAW instead of the un-aimable PK machinegun. I guess you could add iron sights for the PK though. The RPK would have just a little more power than a 5.54 round which would be less than the PK which should balance it out a bit.
I wouldn't bother with a 40 mag and then a +10 mag upgrade it's kind of weird. Maybe a laser attachment???? If possible or low power scope or tritium reddot site something? And it should be a selectfire SMG(semi-auto) not full auto only.
Desert eagle fixes:
The desert eagle in the game is totally demented which I'm assuming the original developers were just plain lazy and threw it in to satisfy some sort of marketing manager or something. First of all it comes in three calibers if you don't count in the baby eagle. .357 mag with a 9 round capacity. 44 mag with an 8 round capacity. and 50 cal Action Express with a 7 round capacity. If you're going to introduce revolvers then I would suggest either .357 or even better .44 magnum. As it sits right now the Desert Eagle is f@cked up in the game. Not only does it have super crappy sites, The recoil is silly for the .45ACP round that it fires that the Eagle was never chambered for. Also it has a low capacity, which is fine, but with some sort of a demented +4 round mag increase to try to get some sort of use out of it, which is just silly. The USP compact in the game has a higher capacity and a way faster fire rate with better sites. If you get a chance please fix this half assed modeling of this pistol. The desert Eagle should be the top or near the top of the pistol tier. As it sits now I'd rather have a Makorov, at least I'll know I'll hit the target and get 4 rounds into it by the time the Eagle has lined up for a second shot. If a psitol is going to be a high caliber, high recoil weapon it better have 1. Good sites not these wide-ass sh!t sites the developers put in. 2. A high enough caliber/damage/accuracy to justify the higher recoil/low capacity. Also it sounds like a cow taking a sh!t instead of a magnum class pistol. Maybe a better sound if possible.
FN 5-7 pistol
Since the 5.7x28 is already in the game. Why not through in the pistol it was mated with? 20 rounds of AP goodness couldn't hurt.
.300 winchester magnum needs more power. Should be one shot one kill on the lower/medium end monolith and stalkers. It takes two center mass shots to kill regardless whether they have a T-shirt or Power Armour(about the same as the 7.62 sniper rifles). Maybe needs some sort of tweaking or something. Think of a gunpowdered gauss rifle. I think the Gauss rifle does 200 damage as per stalker wiki. Maybe make the .300 Winchester magnum 175?? Or up the caliber to .338 win Mag? It has just short of double the power of a 7.62x51 muzzle energy. Or change the caliber to a .408 chey tac or something, Which is just short of a .50 BMG. Also the muzzle velocity should be much higher by default. It practically lobs the rounds into the target. As of now the bolt action sniper rifle is only good for a quick 3500 rubles instead of something useful which is too bad as it's nicely modeled and works well.
Possible tracer round disable option. It always kind of bugged me a bit that every gun in the game including pistols had tracer rounds, maybe the tracer rounds could be something you buy??? Only for support weapons, Ie PK, RPK, etc. An option to turn off? I don't know.
Atmosphere + atmoshpere texture packs:
Generally it works great however you need to install your mod AFTER the Atmosphere mod otherwise the weapon repair kits don't work and it kills the blood effects and your carry weight is back to 50 kgs and you can't use weapons in bases. However doing this breaks the blowout turning people into zombies when hit by a blowout wave. In fact I think it kills anything to do with the NPC's changing or dying when the blowout wave hits them. But everything else works great. Some sort of collaboration?
Supersonic Gunshots mod:
Awsome mod works great with everything. Maybe ask permission to include? Much better than the crappy whine and zing of incoming rounds. You actually get scared as soon as you hear the crack of passing high velocity rifle fire. Much more realistic, as I've had rounds go over my head in training and they do crack, not whiz.
Sound supreme mod:
Awsome again, way better gun sounds but only works on non-smrter standard weapons. Much more realistic. Pops and cracks not farts like some of the weapons. Ak especially good sounding with reverberations and slight echo when outside.
Your weapons addon lite fixes.
Works great unless you install some of the guns, can't remember off the top of my head but some of the guns( I know the HK417 sniper fix breaks the game) will cause the game not to load(probably missing textures or something). Had to manually go through the fixes and apply until it broke then only added what works. I can go through it again if you want me to. I'm assuming in the new version the fixes will all be included so don't worry about it.
Edited by: tmpwhore
|Jul 4 2011, 2:35am Anchor|
Those are some great suggestions.
|Jul 4 2011, 10:05am Anchor|
Thanks Condor I'll take a look. I've killed the ones for now which kill the game...416, 417 and another, can't remember
I'm assuming it's the "forgotton files" or whatever? I'll see if it works or not.
Edited by: tmpwhore
|Jul 4 2011, 11:15am Anchor|
Quote:I'm assuming it's the "forgotton files" or whatever?
yes, that fix is mandatory for the addon to work.
Quote:Some of the weights of the weapons in the game need tweaking too. The biggest culprit is the P90 in the game its about 7 kilos
I based the p90 on pkm stats when I made it and simply forgot to change the weight, that's why it is so heavy.
Quote:All these weapons are googleble so you can look up the specs yourself.
most of the weights and mag sizes are from wikipedia and world-guns, however, actual firepower needs to be calculated by the engine, you can't use real live values there. Using i.e. rl values for range would seriously mess up the balance, since the max viewing distance is set to 150 meters anyway, so that's a lot of trial and error to do.
Quote:RPK in 7.62x39
It has a 40 round mag but can accept 75 round drums as an upgrade. Has iron sights so you can actually fire it. Has a heavy barrel and bi-pod so it's quite a bit heavier. If you wanted to you could model an RPK-74 which is in 5.54x39 for simlicity. The RPK-74 has a 45 round mag and a 100 round drum as an upgrade. Would be an actual useful SAW instead of the un-aimable PK machinegun. I guess you could add iron sights for the PK though.
There will be a few different RPK in v0.45, including the drum mag/bipod versions. They come in 7.62x39 so the ammo is not as easy to come by as if it was 5.53x39.
Quote:FN FAL - should have a 20 round mag and more power, at least according to the crazy "bars" that show the stats.
the stats shown in the inventory are all false for the new guns, they need to be calculated seperately which is a lot of work (and again, lots of trial & error since there is no documentation regarding this issue) so I left that out for now, imo it shouldnt be a top priority in an alpha stage mod.
Quote:Desert eagle fixes: (...)
The DE has a new better looking model already, made it an AE50 with the abillity to upgrade it to another caliber.
Quote:MP7 ammo upgrade I suggest to be +20 rounds not + 10. In the pistol configuration it has a flush mounted 20 round mag in the SMG configuration it has a 40 round mag. If you wanted to keep it as a pistol I guess just leave it. Or if it's possible it would be great that if you use 40 round mags you can't put it in the pistol slot but I don't think the engine can handle it
Not sure if I keep the MP7 at all, my animations for it pretty much all sucked and the ones that looked good crashed upon saving (something you unfortunately have to deal with a lot when animating for x-ray). There are no pistol slots in CoP anymore. Each weapon slot can take all kinds of weapons.
Quote:FN 5-7 pistol
already got that one in the game.
Quote:.300 winchester magnum needs more power. Should be one shot one kill on the lower/medium end monolith and stalkers. It takes two center mass shots to kill regardless whether they have a T-shirt or Power Armour(about the same as the 7.62 sniper rifles). Maybe needs some sort of tweaking or something.
The game doesn't really allow for fine tuning like that, while you can increase the damage a bullet does, you can't choose on which body parts it is more effective, that's a global setting set for individual NPCs. I tweaked it in a way that headshots are 99% deadly, while you need a couple more rounds if you aim for the center of the mass, (regardless of the ammo used) since most NPC are armoured.
Quote:Atmosphere + atmoshpere texture packs:
Generally it works great however you need to install your mod AFTER the Atmosphere mod otherwise the weapon repair kits don't work and it kills the blood effects and your carry weight is back to 50 kgs and you can't use weapons in bases.
It works fine with Atmosfear, just not with its Fallout feature. Atmosfear should always be installed after S.m.r.t.e.r. (and the Fallout feature needs to be deselected) or it will ruin the game. Repair kits and other stuff (including turning people to zombies after a blowout) will work fine if you do it that way.
Quote:Possible tracer round disable option.
Tracers will be disabled for all guns except LMGs, making custom tracer ammo for those is a good idea though.
Quote:I would if possible have the addition of tritium sights
they work really bad on this engine, to make em glow they need to be seperate objects on the model (so you can apply a custom shader), but the SDK tends to fuck up small objects when compiling the gun, so they look really edgy most of the times.
|Jul 4 2011, 10:12pm Anchor|
"Not sure if I keep the MP7 at all, my animations for it pretty much all sucked and the ones that looked good crashed upon saving (something you unfortunately have to deal with a lot when animating for x-ray). There are no pistol slots in CoP anymore. Each weapon slot can take all kinds of weapons. "
That's too bad it's a great backup weapon but I think is a little heavy. What I mean by pistol slot is that you can hold it with one hand with an anomoly detector. Hence the engine considers it a pistol. And as far as I'm concerned the stand in animation works perfectly fine, sure he's not using the charging handle properly, but it looks good enough. The 4.6x30 is a good flat shooting round with great armour penetration. Although you have the weight too heavy again which may be why alot more people don't use it. It's only 1.9 kgs unloaded. If you reduce the weight it becomes more attractive to the pack rats or scroungers in the game. Especially at the beginning where you're grabbing anything of value.
As far as tritium sights are concerned could you not use whatever you use for the Kobra site on the AKSU? When it's dark out it glows brightly, when it's sunny it's more subdued. If you could only borrow a couple of pixels on whatever that sprite the aiming chevron uses. Or you could maybe included a highly modified pistol, like the kind that are used in speed pistol or PPC competitions with the mini holo site and stick it in there. With an appropriately high price as those super modified pistols ususally for around the $2000-$3000 dollar mark. Times that by around 8 for current Ruble conversion rate and you get the idea. Maybe make the reloads faster or something to model a speed pistol and lower recoil due to a fancy muzzle brake or something.
.300 Win mag.
Thats too bad the engine is limiting you in fixing this weapon. I guess for testing you could just up the damage as theoretically if you get your arm blown off you are going to die anyway. It's not a perfect fix but maybe you could test it to see if it works better.
In regards to the 150 meter viewing distance, For NPC's, that is. Is there a way to increase this to say even 200 meters? I know you can't go too crazy or the game would slow to a crawl trying to calculate all those NPC's everywhere but with 200 meters you have just enough distance to start modelling balistics a bit less retardedly than the stock engine uses. At 200 meters even faster 5.56, 5.54 rounds start to drop a bit. It also gives you a lot of leeway on the pistol class SMG's and such as well. It would definitely give you a little room to breathe.
As the grenade lauchers stand now they suck c@ck! Why do I need to aim at the moon to limply lob a grenade for a piddly 50 meters max(maybe more like 40)? It's totally retarded. In real life these grenade launchers are pushing 400 meters max effective range. While I understand due to the limitation of the engine you can only see NPC's out to 150 meters but cmon it's totally retarded. Is there a way to fix it so at least it will hit something out to 150 meters. I believe in the first game(SoC) a guy made a mod for an M79 single shot grenade launcher that was modelled correctly and you could actually use the iron sights on it as well. Possible?
Rocket speed way too slow, looks arcadey like quake or something. The RPG rocket should be at least 4 times as fast. I think there was a mod out there for this somewhere, maybe something to look into. Addition or surplus one shot throwaway LAW's would be nice as well. Much lighter but only allows one shot. To do a cheap ass way of modelling it just make the weapon have % 100 chance of breaking when shot, one shot, it's totally broken.
As far as the damage calculation is done you could theoretically compensate a little for different barrel lengths and such even on weapons of the same caliber. For instance, in general an SMG is going to have a longer barrel than a pistol so a UMP45 is going to be more accurate and do slightly more damage than a P220 for instance. A short AKSU will be less accurate and do slightly less damage than a full blown AK however the fire rate would be faster as it has a shorter piston stroke. I think generally you did a great job on modeling the weapons. However some were a little weird like the FN FAL and the AKSU. But I suggested easy fixes to make them less retarded.
For example the FN FAL in the game should basically be what the sniper rifle(HK417) is or similar with iron sights. Maybe with slightly less recoil as it will actually have a muzzle brake on it. Or as an upgrade. The AKSU to justify it's high damage compared to it's short barrel I would make it in 7.62x39. etc. I don't think you have to go super bonkers with balistics simulators to do simple but believable fixes.
I'm glad you've decided to put in the UMP45. I always like the custom MP5(frasier?) you could buy from nimble in the game but the mag size was out of wack. While it was nice having a 40 round mag on a 25 round mag SMG, it wasn't very realistic. It would have been better to up the damage and have the proper mag size.
I'll take a look into the modding tutorial thats out there and maybe I could give you a hand on at least the basic stats of the weapons. I guess I could use existing models as analogues for now.
From the front page:
tmpwhore 9mins 28secs ago says:
Basically I'm not re-inventing the wheel here but I understand you're busy doing 0.45 so I'd like to help by tweaking whats already in the game as is to be a bit more sensical and realistic. The game developers made some crazy ass decisions so I know it's hard to sort it out but if I could go through and fix whats there maybe it would give you some good ideas on 0.45.
Well ok I have the MP7 doing a 20 round to a 40 round mag and there seems to be no conflicts in the game. It's using the SMG upgrade path so I'll keep playing to see if there is any other weapon using the "w_smg_up" path but so far so good.
Edited by: tmpwhore
|Sep 11 2011, 5:15am Anchor|
Suggestion when uploading(just popped out of my head) What if u have finished 45% of the 9gb pack why dont u release it part by part until it reaches 9gb easier that way(is it eays by the way?) and hear about the bugs and release patch? Is that doable? Tnx Love ur mod. zombies gave me shivers. hapi modding
|Sep 12 2011, 5:05pm Anchor|
I don't follow... the mod is already 9GB+ so how would I make it smaller? If I would only upload parts of it the game would crash on startup, what's the use in that?
|Sep 13 2011, 3:20pm Anchor|
Maybe he means break it up into pieces? So you can download bits at a time?
|Sep 16 2011, 6:47am Anchor|
But the files are all linked to oneanother, so you can't just rip out bits and pieces and expect it to work, it would be a huge effort to make them halfway stable, plus you would have to provide support for each bit, dealing with problems that wouldn't even exist if you hadn't split stuff up in the first place.^^
|Oct 14 2011, 2:33am Anchor|
I think you should add more futuristic weapons
Edited by: MrBoroda
|Oct 15 2011, 5:31pm Anchor|
the weapon list is pretty much set by now and a lot of people don't like the idea of modern weapons in the zone (let alone futuristic ones).
|Aug 10 2012, 5:27am Anchor|
you could use winrar to multi archive, but that wouldn't work without every other chunk
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