Balance and Thoughts (Release 1.4) Thread - Decent Freespace Into Chaos mod for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion

This has gone through various revisions, but I wanted to give a little feedback on current state of balance of ships and some recommendations. There have been countless revisions in an attempt to shorten the post. Due to complexity, I will divide this into sections. First a word on mechanics:

Weaponry on ships is divided into 4 quadrants, so I will use the "Front"/ "Back"/ "Left"/ "Right" attackType format. For unfamiliar readers, try the link below. In essence, each weapon has an "attackType" and every ship has an "armorType." This determines whether a weapon does bonus damage or reduced damage against a certain target. Do note that most attackTypes have a 10% chance to hit strike craft, but "AntiLight" and "AntiVeryLight" both enjoy 65% - 75% chances of hitting. Reddit.com

Another fun mechanic that may be brought up here is armor. Armor is a bit counter-intuitive and functions through a damage reduction modifier applied when damage to the hull is being calculated. The formula used here seems to be modifier = 20 / (20 + x), where X are the armor points from the ships stats. So a ship with 20 armor would only take 20 / (20 + 20) = .5, aka half damage to their hull (ignoring shield mitigation).

Support Ships

Support ships are the easiest comparisons to the original Sins counterparts. While they do, in general, have better firepower than the originals, the AttackType for their weaponry is usually "AntiLight" and they usually have the "Light" ArmorType.

GTGs Titan R

Nothing too much to say here. A non-canon ship with the same stats as the TEC Arcova Scout Frigate, but lacking the "Timed Charges" ability and has its firepower split between left / right.

GTA Charybdis

Similar to other offensive support cruisers in health and has the abilities of the TEC Cielo Command Cruisers. Has 3.0/ 3.0/ 3.0/ 3.0 AntiLight and 0.0/ 0.0/ 2.325/ 2.325 AntiVeryLight. This is more firepower than most support ships, though AntiLight has limited utility.

I mostly like where the Charybdis sits balance-wise (still would like new abilities , though I debate with myself on how much xp it should grant.

GTT Argo

Once again, the Argo is the lifeline of the Terran fleet. It stands as the only GTA ship able to heal other ships (other than the Colossus) and is also used to capture neutral structures. The boarding ability is nice, but secondary to healing. Costs 1 supply more than other defensive support cruisers. Oddly enough, only ship with anti-medium weaponry in GTA.

GTFr Triton

Functions as the Terran starbase constructor, and also is the only armed one. Somehow costs 1000 less credits and has 1000 more hull than regular Sins starbase constructors.

It is probably safe to increase the price a bit (especially since it's armed). Firepower actually makes it fairly dangerous to strike craft. I'd consider dividing the damage between the arcs instead of having full dps in each one.

GTSC Faustus

The Faustus is the (armed) envoy of the GTA. It still has the cost, fragility, and low supply usage (2 slots) from its scout days. While it is armed (3.0/ 0.0/ 3.0/ 3.0 AntiHeavy and 3.325/ 0.0/ 3.325/ 3.325 AntiVeryLight), it is simply to fragile to be combat viable. It actually has less health than a scout or a wing of fighters, so I'm not sure anything can be changed without a buff to survivability.

If anything, I might lower the xp for a kill.

GTM Hippocrates

The Terran colonizer and the most well armed support ship in the Terran fleet. It has the unnerfed version of the Terran Light Slash beam (8.167/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 AntiLight), 3 Terran Turrets (3.0/ 0.0/ 3.0/ 3.0 AntiLight) and an anti-strike craft beam (0.0/ 0.0/ 1.75/ 1.75 AntiVeryLight). In some ways, this makes the Hippocrates like a Fenris MK2 with more hull, but missing its fusion mortar (and "Light" armorType).

You may consider raising its price and supply (maybe 8 supply?), though raising it too much may cripple Terran early expansion. Just consider that we don't want it being a viable replacement for the Fenris in combat.

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Warships (non-Capital)

Things get more confusing from here on in, as Freespace ships are not as specialized as Sins ships. Sins frigates and cruisers only have a single weapon with a specific attackType, if armed at all. Freespace ships are jacks-of-all-trades in comparison, with various types of weapons with different attackTypes. Note that many of these ships have AntiLight weaponry with the ability to target fighters, making life difficult for strike craft and corvettes.

GTC Fenris

The Great War version of the Fenris acting as the light frigate of the GTA. Has 24 AntiLight dps setup as 6.0/ 0.0/ 9.0/ 9.0 and a Fusion Mortar as 5.5/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 Composite, but is still rather fragile compared to a Sins light frigate. As a result, the cruiser rarely gets to use its full firepower, and is at a disadvantage against most warships. However, the AntiLight weaponry makes it very dangerous to bombers and corvettes.

I hesitate to recommend much here, as I am not sure how much of this is intentional.

GTC Fenris MK2

The beam refit of the Fenris, replacing 3 of its pulse turrets (3.0/ 0.0/ 6.0/ 6.0 AntiLight) with a Light Terran Slashing Beam (2.46/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 AntiLight) and 2 anti-strike craft beams (0.0/ 0.0/ 1.75/ 1.75 AntiVeryLight). It also added a little more hull and shielding. Despite the refit, the Fenris MK2 actually has less firepower than the original and does worse against strike craft. The two versions of the Fenris also share the same xp for kills, despite the Fenris Mk2 being "superior."

If nothing else, I would buff the main beam weapon (maybe back to 98?), and make it at least "AntiMedium." The idea is simply to fit its role better and make it an improvement over the Great War Fenris. With that in mind, the Terran Turret still outperforms the anti-strike craft beams in their own specialty. If the ship is improved, may need to raise xp from kills as well. Finally, supply usage should be raised after any buffs, so that players will still have a reason to build the Great War Fenris.

GTC Leviathan

A much more heavily armored and much slower version of the Fenris, acting as the Terran siege frigate. It shares the same weaponry as the Great War Fenris: (6.0/ 0.0/ 9.0/ 9.0 AntiLight) and (5.5/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 Composite). The health and armorType ("VeryHeavy") are closer to a heavy cruiser, making the Leviathan an extremely hard to stop siege ship. While it costs a little more than a regular siege frigate, it only costs 5 supply points (Sins siege ships cost 14). In short, its a hard to kill siege ship that is hard to kill, can swat bombers, costs 9 supply less than other siege ships, and is the slowest ship in the game.

If nothing else, the costs should go up. While it is extremely slow, it is extremely well armored and armed for a siege ship. It can also maneuver (slowly) around any defenses and swat down any bombers, one of the counters for "VeryHeavy" ships. Supply usage should go up to at least normal cost of 14, but probably go higher. Credits and minerals costs could also be raised a bit.

GTC Leviathan MK2

The Freespace 2 era refit of the Leviathan with beam weaponry, filling the GTA's ship role of a heavy cruiser. Its hull, shields, speed, and armorType remain the same. It retains 3 Terran Turrets (3.0/ 0.0/ 3.0/ 3.0 AntiLight) and its Fusion Mortar (5.5/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 Composite). New weaponry includes 1 Light Direct Beam (4.17/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 AntiHeavy) and 4 anti-strike craft beams (0.0/ 0.0/ 3.3/ 3.3 AntiVeryLight). While the the main beam is an improvement, the anti-strike craft beams tend to be less effective than the pulse turrets of the Great War version. Furthermore, the firepower of the Leviathan is somewhat less than a normal Sins heavy cruiser (18 - 23 Composite). This comes at the hefty price of 1000 credits, 500 metal, and 100 crystal. Notably, the credit cost is twice that of a Sins heavy cruiser and the metal cost is actually higher than a capital ship (400 metal).

The Leviathan MK2's main 3 problems are its cost, extremely low speed, and low (for a heavy cruiser) firepower. Sadly, this is pretty close to canon, as the main beam has a recharge time of 45 seconds. On that note, the SGreen could be made "Composite," and possibly even be buffed a little damage-wise to help it compete. The Leviathan could also be given abilities to help it out in battle or with its severe speed issue. The price could also stand to go down a little (especially metal).

GTFg Jupiter

Hailing from the Frontlines mod (Freespace 2) Jupiter fills in as the GTA' light carrier. Since Frontlines is set before the Great War, the Jupiter uses a (supposedly outdated) gauss cannon (2.92/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 Composite) and 2 autocannons (0.0/ 0.0/ 2.22/ 2.22 AntiVeryLight). Its last weapon is the more traditional Fusion Mortar (5.5/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 Composite). The cost, supply usage, and xp are the same as the TEC's Percheron Light Carrier. While it features the "Heavy" armorType of a light carrier, its hull and shields are those of a Fenris MK2. Don't expect it to survive long on the front lines. For its 2 hangar slots, it can field the GTF Valkyrie and/or the GTB Athena. However, the Athena lacks the punch of other Freespace bombers.

The Jupiter is a difficult ship to assess, due to how unique it is. While it has a weak hull, it is also the only armed light carrier. Additionally, Freespace strike craft are often better armed than their Sins counterparts. One change that could be done is changing the autocannons to flak, which could theoretically exist pre-Freespace 2. The idea here is to cut down on the types of weapons for simplicity. Can't think of anything that could replace the gauss, though.

GTC Aeolus

The most advanced GTA cruiser and best anti-strike craft ship in the mod. The Aeolus offers twice the hull of Sins anti-stike ships (slightly more than the Leviathan!) and a formidable array of flak (6.15/ 6.15/ 12.3/ 12.3 AntiVeryLight) and 2 anti-strike craft beams (0.0/ 0.0/ 1.65/ 1.65 AntiVeryLight). It offers some additional firepower with its plasma (5.67/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 AntiHeavy) and warship beams (8.34/ 0.0/ 0.0/ 0.0 AntiHeavy). However, this comes at the cost of 15 supply (compared to 4) and larger price tag. Note that the flak and AA beams are both shorter range than regular Sins.

In theory, the Aeolus has earned much of its price tag. However, it is somewhat overshadowed by the large amounts of AntiLight among the other warships. One can build multiple Fenris and fare just as well in battle.

GTCv Deimos

A member of the new corvette class, the Deimos bridges the gap between Freespace cruisers and destroyers. It also acts as the GTA's anti-module warship. Despite this, its a multi-role warship that is closer to a capital ship than a cruiser. For big guns, it has capital ship grade slash beams (10.0/ 0.0/ 5.0/ 5.0 AntiHeavy) and plasma turrets (12.5/ 4.17/ 0.0/ 0.0 AntiHeavy). Note that the range of these weapons is within starbase range, and that AntiHeavy only does half damage to modules and starbases. The main armament is backed up by Terran Turrets (6.0/ 6.0/ 12.0/ 12.0 AntiLight w/o CanFireAtFighter), flak (12.3/ 12.3/ 6.15/ 6.15 AntiVeryLight), and anti-strike craft beams (0/ 3.3/ 1.65/ 1.65 AntiVeryLight). Finally, its hull and shields are a just little bit lower than a capital ship. Actual cost is similar to a capital ship, but the Deimos only takes 25 slots and gives 100 xp.

Probably one of the hardest ships to balance due to the sheer versatility. There is no ship similar to it in Sins. Frankly, I'd need to make a chart to determine how much dps each weapon does on different facings to different targets. If nothing else, the Deimos does less damage to modules than other anti-modules, but it may be able wear them down through sheer attrition thanks to its immense health. I'd consider making the TerSlash AntiModule, raising the supply usage, and maybe raise the xp (should be more than Leviathan). The damage on the beams seems a bit low for anti-module, but I don't want to make the ship overpowered.

Edited by: Saraelia