Comments - perhapsnot

Just checked: swearing still visible in other posts on this thread as of 15/01/14. nearly a month later....

Respectfully I disagree- I saw those posts and they were by far the strongest rebuttal to any of your claims as to technical difficulties I have yet seen. Making excuses does nothing to restore your credibility. Considering your own less than friendly manner it seems odd that you would so heavily penalise swearing. Especially as there were, for 3 full weeks, curses in other posts that you never touched. they may well be there still. "lies" were they? I saw no obvious lie. I do however strongly suspect you deleted inconvenient truths.

however it is your discussion- you must do as you see fit.

"This discussion with complete freedom"

no- if you delete alleged lies rather than try and prove them false it is not "with complete freedom" it is rather discussion in accordance with what you care to have discussed. Seeing as you are a major part of this conflict you will understand if I suspect bias.

Sincerely,

Perhapsnot

That could well be it- I'm struggling to find anything better!

my mistake then- someone did though. hmmm i'll have a dig and let you know if i find anything :)

i believe thq expressly forbade it in reguards to dow2.

Interesting that two of zaha's replies to groorc seem to have been removed. Its says worlds about you groorc that when a discussion goes against you you just delete the other side.

Some while willing to share will leave because they also wish to be treated with respect and not have their assets stolen. It is not necessarily greed or selfishness as much as a natural desire to have their rights respected.

ah but if even a few makers leave that has a knock on effect- in a community like this people will leave if they are not being respected as artists- people who would happily share (albeit under certain conditions) leaving reduces the amount of variety and number of mods- in time this leads to a degrading of quality in the community as a whole. to return to the playground ananlogy yes some candy is still being made but there is less of it and less flavours. Whereas if one respects the basic rights of the candymakers to decide what happens to their candy most being good charitable people will share and while the occasional combination of differant flavours may be forbbiden on the whole there will be more candy and more flavours of candy.

"those people will always have public respect" but not to the extent that their wishes are respected when they disagree with the community right? like if say they didnt want to mix flavours with another candy maker without the community coming to them for their half of the recipe seperately- because then for the "good of the community" you would just take their candy off them and share with everyone. remember the tyranids are willing to share just not in they way GrOrc wants.

I am not trying to sound patronising so i apologise in advance if this comes off like that.

Sincerely,

Perhapsnot

if you are trying to apply the copyright act of a particular local here you are unlikely to succeed. this case is more like intellectual property rights as applied to art- the creator has an automatic right of ownership over their own work. There is no crime in pointing out someone has used your art without permission. in anycase GrOrc has broken the site's term of use so the point is moot.

"2.3 You warrant that you are the owner or creator of any User Developed Content, or any User Generated Content you choose to upload, or that you have received permission from the owner or creator of any such content to make such submissions and to licence that content as set out in this clause"

so even if you were correct in your application of the law (which i do not believe you are- there is a difference between registered trademark and a basic right of ownership over created art) as he has broken the terms of service moddb is well within their rights to close his account

end of discussion? good luck getting that degree.

if you are trying to apply the copyright act of a particular local here you are unlikely to succeed. this case is more like intellectual property rights as applied to art- the creator has an automatic right of ownership over their own work. There is no crime in pointing out someone has used your art without permission. in anycase GrOrc has broken the site's term of use so the point is moot.

absolutely and you're correct the solution to the whole sorry meess with GrOrc is far more important than whether he broke any laws or rules :)

you are a wise jet engine propelled fruit rocket banana and don't let anyone tell you otherwise- if both sides were as sensible as you this whole mess would not exist. :)

it is true though soviet russia relied on being able to force people to research and be creative- you cannot force people to do the same in this community so a forced model such as you are advocating would not work.

1. u make candy
2. everybody want candy
3. we take candy and share it with everybody
4. everybody happy (exept mb original candy owner, but he also gets equal peace of this candy, as everyone)
5. I stop making candy because you kept stealing it.
6. no new candy because candy makers do not like getting robbed.

except broken the terms of use of the site:

"2.3 You warrant that you are the owner or creator of any User Developed Content, or any User Generated Content you choose to upload, or that you have received permission from the owner or creator of any such content to make such submissions and to licence that content as set out in this clause"

so even if you were correct in your application of the law (which i do not believe you are- there is a difference between registered trademark and a basic right of ownership over created art) as he has broken the terms of service moddb is well within their rights to close his account

end of discussion? good luck getting that degree.

Another law type here to point out it doesn't really matter whether we apply international ip law or local laws as he has broken the rules of the site which are clear on this matter:

"2.3 You warrant that you are the owner or creator of any User Developed Content, or any User Generated Content you choose to upload, or that you have received permission from the owner or creator of any such content to make such submissions and to licence that content as set out in this clause"

he expressly hasn't.

sincerely,

Perhapsnot

i know. it's sad that he feels the need to do this. surely its possible to design a patch to update the tyranid mod so that it can be combined with twm- that would solve the issue and while it is beyound my megre attempts at modding i highly doubt it is beyound GrOrc.

if something is expropriated without following those steps it is not expropriated at all but rather stolen. Which i believe is widely frowned upon.

and that is why russia did not develop a creative industry that could rival the west. peoples IP needs to be respected otherwise in future they will simply not publish it.

Think of the bigger picture beyond having one extra race in twm please.

otherwise you could end up with:

1. You have candy.
2. Community demand TWM mod with candies.
3. You decline to share as is your right
4. it is stolen
5. you and others like you decide to stop creating assets because they just get stolen and the community suffers for lack of modders.
6. reduced number of active modders leads to eventual death of community.

We would all prefer if the tyranid team gave GrOrc permission but it is important we respect their decision not to and do not condone GroOrcs behaviour just because we want to play tyranids in twm.

exactly! this guy gets it! the greater good is not having the tyranids in twm but preserving the integrity of the community as a whole. Better the rules of the site and the protection they afford are upheld than a stolen extra race in twm.

true buuuuut only a public body can expropriate not a private individual.

GrOrc has still broken the rules of this site regardless of what the law says.

Though of course we would all prefer him and the tyranid team to come to an amicable solution.

what it should be is one thing, however that is not what it is. Even ignoring actual law- the rules of this site are clear that you must have permission:

"2.3 You warrant that you are the owner or creator of any User Developed Content, or any User Generated Content you choose to upload, or that you have received permission from the owner or creator of any such content to make such submissions and to licence that content as set out in this clause"

I understand why you feel that crediting should be enough however i would like you to consider why copy rights exist anyway- it is in order to promote the sharing of stuff- the thinking is that if the original modelers were not confident in their right of ownership being protected then they would have never released the assets in the first place thereby depriving the wider community of content. You are absolutely right in that this is an insignificant case however the principle behind it is important and the precedent GrOrcs actions would set is alarming. Put simply if artists work cannot be safeguarded from use which they choose not to approve of then they simply will not share it.

For the record i do think that the tyranid mod should have given GrOrc permission however they were within their rights to refuse and that is a decision that must be respected.

Sincere reguards,

perhapsnot

"Never tell anyone they are better than this how do you know that you are even better person than GrOrc to say that, that is not for you to decide." I have every right to tell GrOrc that i believe he is capable of better behavior the same as you have the right to tell me not to.

What he is doing is not right. it is theft. He is using content he has no right to. mentioning that he did not create the assets does admittedly mean he is not compounding that with fraud (as i would be if i started passing his work as mine) however crediting someone is not enough: permission is also required- permission that GrOrc has been explicitly denied.

As has already been explained to you many times by many people Zahaquiel represents the modelers views and has denied you use. Therefore you cannot use them.

The whole point of copyright is to prevent what you just desribed: "If someone want private content then he must preserve it at home and not shared in Internet. ". No. No. that attitude is very harmful to the community as some people will not put work into a mod if anyone can use with absolute freedom. Copyright allows artists to share their work without worrying about others stealing their assets.

Following your line of reasoning it would be absolutely ok for me to take your mod and post it as my own after all you put it on the internet. does that sound fair? No- because it is absurd.

Cease the absurdities GrOrc you are only creating rifts in the community. I implore you to see sense and either incorporate using a combiner or drop the tyranids altogether. You are better than this.

Sincerest Reguards,

Perhapsnot

registered trademark is not actually the same as copyright though it is almost always packaged together and presented as such. registered trade marking is an attempt in some countries to expand the concepts of the law of patents to art. As you say however this is not recognized by every country however the basic copy right- that is the right of exclusive ownership over something one has created is present in some form in almost every legal system i can think of.

I agree completely with your latter point though- a united community respecting each others work is absolutely the best way of dealing with the situation. :)

Strange situation? no not really. anything owned can be stolen commercial or not. The tyranid team own the rights to those assets and have refused to share that with you so you have just stolen the assets and used them anyway. The mod is not abandoned- this is clear from the replies you are receiving from Zahaqiel.

They have provided you permission to use as a combiner- it would admittedly be difficult for you to impliment this because of the nature of your own mod but that is a problem for you to solve not an excuse to pirate the work of others when you have been expressly told not to.

If you truly care about the community then apologize remove the stolen assets and if you still wish to use the tyranids start thinking about how they could be incorporated by combiner, i'm sure a modder of your talent could figure something out.

Sincere reguards,

Perhapsnot

you are confusing copyright and patent. patents need registered copyright is created automatically an exists in a similiar form in almost every nation. :)you are right about the practicality of enforcement being almost impossible i think it is more the immorality of doing something which is illegal almost the world over that has people riled :)

This is not a struggle between "copyrightsters" and "freemen" it is simply you trying to justify taking the work of others when you have been expressly told not to. The tyranid team have made you a perfectly reasonable offer.

Freemen have the right to own that which they have created and not to have that work claimed by others. it is theft to take a free mans property from him. commercial value or not a man's property is his and his alone and you do not have the right to deprive him of that regardless as too whether or not it will adversely effect him financially or otherwise.

One of the key rules of all creative communities (including modding)is copyright- it allows the artist the ability to share work without worrying about others stealing from them. If you respect the rules of this community then accept you have made a mistake and either incorporate the tyranids mod as that team has requested or drop the race from your mod entirely.

you say not all modders are "copyrightsters" well not all are "thieves" either.

sincere reguards.

Perhapsnot

not sure why it didn't log me in before i posted but hey-ho. Just so everyone is aware i am not some random anon.

really? :) can you give a quick how to? or do we just add it to the compiler as per normal?