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W40K-Armageddon
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[RLM]Darksteel
[RLM]Darksteel Jul 20 2013, 2:50pm says:

all races?

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 20 2013, 2:57pm replied:

It's about the 2nd war for Armageddon so Orks, Blood Angels, Salamanders, Ultrasmurfs, Steel Legion, the old man himself and Squats.

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 20 2013, 3:02pm replied:

The latter is canon only.

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AbyssalHorror
AbyssalHorror Jul 20 2013, 3:30pm replied:

So no chaos.... me is sad :(
At least my favourite loyalist chapter and 2nd favourite guard regiment group and my favourite enemies orks xD
Well, would like to see some in-game footage

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 20 2013, 4:24pm replied:

It's called Armageddon for a reason, to make it up you'll be seeing one titan legion and gargant mobs.

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Chompster
Chompster Jul 20 2013, 4:42pm says:

sweet! the landraider and rhino chassis are my models :D

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YetiChow
YetiChow Jul 20 2013, 11:01pm says:

dis gon be good... :D

Also, there will be Black templars and Space Wolves too if it stays true to the Armageddon canon - thanks to the First Armageddon War, it wouldn't be out of character for some Chaos cultists to show up either; since the remnant cults were still alive and kicking when the Orks rocked up...

And that's where the Space Wolves show up, to deal with the re-emerging cultist threat. Now, that might be going a bit out on a limb, but we can hope right? Right?

.... oh yeah, I forgot for a sec that there's no hope left int eh 40k universe =P

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 21 2013, 8:10am replied:

2nd War for Armageddon: no Chaos, no Black Templars and no Space Wolves.

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dustyslipknot
dustyslipknot Jul 21 2013, 3:16pm replied:

black templars were in the 2nd war of Armageddon

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 21 2013, 4:13pm replied:

Black Templars served only in the 3rd war.

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YetiChow
YetiChow Jul 22 2013, 9:17am replied:

First war for armageddon was Chaos vs. Space Wolves (and a heap of other chapters of course, but Russ was there so Space Wolves took precidence... this was back in the first few Black Crusades).

Considering that the 'original' 3rd War for Armageddon was designed for a Mega-tournament (a worldwide event GW used to run where every battle in a given period, usually Summer in England, would count towards telling the story of a planet), it's actually perfectly acceptable to say any race or chapter or regiment or whatever was there unless there's something specifically stating they weren't.

Now, anyone who thinks that the Chaos influence is completely gone after the black crusade was crushed is obviously a zealous Imperial dogmatist; and really there's a good reason for almost any race/chapter to be there (excluding 'nids and Tau, who of course hadn't been discovered at that point)... so there's no good 'canon' reason to exclude races based solely on "oh, these guys were there according to X version". The Second Armageddon war only "happens" in relation to the third anyway, and the reason the Black Templars are there in force for the Third (according to the original campaing sourcebook) is that a small contingent showed up for the Second and had to pull out before they were finished the job. That was what drove the whole "never take a step backwards" ethos for the Black Templars, it comes from the (made up) slight of abandoning their post in the (made up from thin air at the time) Second Armageddon war.

That's the thing about canon - there is ALWAYS another take on the story or a counter-argument =P The only reason I go on about wanting Templars and Chaos etc. is to prevent the "canon syndrome" effect being applied to teh game - I'm hoping someone will read this and think "oh yeah, maybe we can take a bit of license here..."

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 22 2013, 10:33am replied:

You forget that the after the 1st war for Armageddon the The Inquisition replaced the whole population with new colonists that never heard or thought of the existence of Chaos, this is what caused the immense hatred of Space Wolves for the Inquisition in the first place.

Mind providing a source for the presence of Black Templars in the second war then? Their codex has no mention of any involvement in the second war, just the third.

The mega-tournament is about the 3rd war, which indeed had plenty of space marine chapters, guard regiments and Ork waaaghs.

This game is about the 2nd war, which only had the presence of and I quote from the dev's own description:
"players will lead the Imperial forces of the Armageddon Steel Legion and Space Marines®from the Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Salamanders Chapters against Ghazghkull Thraka’s massive Ork Waaagh!"

Doesn't they won't make an expansion a year or so later about the 1st or 3rd war, just that you won't be seeing Templars and Chaos until then.

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YetiChow
YetiChow Jul 23 2013, 3:04am replied:

hahah, you obviously have your own very solid interpretation of the canon. Well, it's not hugely important either way (in fact, I wasn't trying to suggest my interpretation was 'right', just that there's always another way of looking at the 40k universe).

Either way, I hope that the Devs decide to allow those individual interpretations while playing the game rather than sticking rigidly to 'canon', because the point I was trying to make is that the canon is anything but rigid. Hopefully there will be systems or modding to let players choose their own characters (including race etc.), or even better design their own.

At the end of the day, it's not about whether the Black Templars showed up for the Second war for Armageddon or not - it's about keeping the hobby open to custom content. Now, I'm pretty sure we cna at least agree there =D

And, for the record, I wouldn't likely play as a Black Templar and certainly never a Chaos character fo any kind - I'm a proud son of Vulcan so I'm set either way =P

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 23 2013, 8:20am replied:

"Extensive modding options delivered through a powerful and easy-to-use game editor."

Next time, mention that you're talking about modding first.
Slitherine.com

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YetiChow
YetiChow Jul 24 2013, 12:48am replied:

I had no idea at the time that modding was an option. As i said, it's not a comment about specifics, it's about staying open-minded to the possibilities of 40k.

That said, hearing that modding is being supported from the get-go along with other UGC, I'm sure the Armageddon Devs have taken the 'true' hobby path of not sticking to any rigid path as the be-all and end-all "correct" answer :D

The Most Important Rule in effect: if players have fun being a Chaos Marine or an Eldar Aspect Warrior or whatever then there should be options for that. The Most Important Rule being, of course, the one in the last few editions of the rulebook: have fun.

It all comes down to a response to your first comment Luthorian - when you said "2nd War for Armageddon: no Chaos, no Black Templars and no Space Wolves", people's hobby-glands started twitching lol. Now, I'm guilty of a lot of rambling with this point, but TL;DR: the second that peopel decide to limit the game to X number of factions as the only "proper" factions, then the game starts losing appeal for many hobbyists. It's not about saying that a particular faction necessarily was there, it's about not ruling out the possibility so that someone can put them there in the future if that would be fun for them.

Hahaha, this has turned into quite the spiralling discussion... again though, my point isn't that anyone in particulr should be "right", there just shouldn't be a "wrong" way to read the canon or design a game's factions etc.

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Luthorian
Luthorian Jul 24 2013, 9:51am replied:

Except that I wasn't limiting, this game at base value is solely about the second war for Armageddon so you should expect to see just the factions and battles in it. It's a matter of sticking to the source material. Else you'd have something closer to World War Z where the only thing it has in common with the book is the name and the planet.

As a modder myself and knowing that a nice portion of the IG and Space Marine models come from the mod I'm working on (full credit to the talented Chompster) makes us proud and willing to see what potential it has for modding.
Moddb.com

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New info on Warhammer 40K - Armageddon

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Jul 20th, 2013
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