"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" Thread

"if you want peace, prepare for war"
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This isn't a spark for debate, this isn't an opinion, it is simply the truth.
The United States of America and Coalition forces have and are doing MORE than you know in Iraq to benefit the country and its inhabitants.

I would like to point you to a website that has extremely extensive information on the accomplishments of the US in Iraq: USAID.COM
USAID: Assistance for Iraq - Accomplishments
USAID: Iraq Photo Gallery

Some excerpts from the site:

• Vaccinated 3 million children through monthly national immunization days.
• Equipping 600 facilities in seven target governorates to provide essential primary healthcare services.
• Trained 750 people who are training more than 2,000 primary healthcare providers in maternal and child health services.
• Distributed high-protein biscuits to more than 240,000 children and pregnant and nursing mothers.
• Renovated 2,356 schools nationwide.
• Distributed 1.5 million secondary school student kits, 808,000 primary school student kits, and 81,735 primary school teacher kits.
• Implementing 17 high-priority activities with the CPA to reform Iraq's currency, state-owned enterprises, small businesses, banking system, taxation system, budgeting, and utility administration.
• Began facilitating the Central Bank program to exchange new dinars for old on October 15, 2003, and completed the program January 15, 2004. There are currently 4.62 trillion new Iraqi dinars in circulation.
• Created more than 77,000 public works jobs through the National Employment Program.
• Immediately after the conflict, provided 516,800 metric tons of food worth over $389 million through the World Food Program.
• Deployed one of the largest ever Disaster Assistance Response Teams, including doctors, public health professionals, water and sanitation experts, food distribution and agricultural specialists, and other experts.
• Pre-positioned substantial amounts of food and supplies before the war: water, hygiene and health kits, blankets, and plastic sheeting.

- Edited By Halfbreed On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 11:07:44pm

Halfbreed wrote: "if you want peace, prepare for war"

cliche crap, just a line to get kids reved up to go and kill.

Ghandi. India.

I respect your opinion.

and I respect yours too

But I dont see how after doing many bad things to Iraq, selling them chemical weapons, putting sactions on them, that killed hundreds, and illegalize privatizing their resources. We can all of a sudden do these things and say. "oh look how good we are", And we are trying to forget and cover up what we did in the past. It is all very fishy to me. Dont trust anyof it.

I would agree they are benifiting but what about the american people. Why couldnt they vacinate 3 million american kids. or build more hospitals in america and so on and so forth that is my problem he wants to ignore the problems here (US) and go fix the rest of the world thats not his job. Hes not paid by the iraqui people hes elected and paid by the american people so why dosent he do something for them????????????????????????

Yes that bring up a good point. Iraqi is going to have universal health care. Why cant we have that in the US?

Because he dosent care just like his dad didn't.

I see where you are coming from Pengus, but I don't think your point has any true substance. I think you should do a little research at Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It has some pretty good information. And for further info check out the USA's main Health site: U.S. Department of Health & Human Service

I was doing some research and this is a great site! The Whitehouse.gov

- Edited By Halfbreed On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 11:47:25pm

I don't see why Canada has universal health care and we can't. We're the wealthiest nation in the world, and Bush can't help out his own people. He raises medicare costs to put more money into the war or in his own pockets. Looking at a web site with information on care for our country isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Rediculous.

I know! Canada has a great healthcare plan.

Looking at a web site with information on care for our country isn't going to change anyone's mind.

I strongly agree, I just want people to know I actually did look into this stuff

War costs alot (The War in Iraq in particular , keep that in mind. And I don't think Bush needs money to pocket

- Edited By Halfbreed On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 11:54:22pm

Yes, the United States of America has commited some atrocious acts in the past, and continues to do so, but we should not condemn their current actions in Iraq if they are overall benificial. Yes, we should definitely question their actions, but many of those actions are irrelevant in deciding what action should be taken now.

"Why not take care of problems at home first?"

There will always be problems in our home countries, but unlike countries like Iraq, we should be able to solve these problems without external assistance. It is necessary for countries like the United States to step in to clean up situations like that in Iraq, because due to the system in power, the citizens have no way of fixing problems such as healthcare; they have no voice.

[EDIT]
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

There are many different interpretations of this statement, such as "if you want to maintain peace in your country, you should make sure that you can defend it militarily if the need arises", or "preemptive war is necessary to ensure that our peace + freedom (and those of other nations) will not be harmed", etc...

Something to keep in mind...
[/EDIT]

-jEFF

- Edited By PsychoBrat On Mon 28th, Jun 2004 @ 3:58:48pm

Wow, you agree with everyone! I think I am liking you already

Sure, I know we're making a lot of breakthroughs in healthcare, but when it comes down to it, Bush has made a lot of wild claims during his State of the Union Adress (money poured into hydrogen fuel-celled cars, which he hasn't mentioned since the address last year), drug-safety test (oh great, get to pee in a cup in front of your friends again), lowered medicare prices (practically the opposite, healthcare costs keep going up and up, and Bush didn't allow Veterans to get checks on medicare and raised costs for Seniors when they payed for medicine).... it just keeps going on and on.

He needs to change his focus from the outside to the inside, because he's not the president of the world; he's the president of the United States of America.

and look at the debt its brought upon america, great stuff.

aaaah the photo gallery, they show all the good things. they want people to think "omg US has helped Iraq soooo much!"

that gallery pretty much covered everything but the truth :/

- Edited By cj_the_dj On Wed 30th, Jun 2004 @ 1:56:22am

Halfbreed wrote: I see where you are coming from Pengus, but I don't think your point has any true substance. >

I dont care about there web site they can make it seem like america has no problems all they want that dosent make it true. Also the CDC all they do is sit on there ass and tell people what to do when was the last time they vacinated 3 million kids. or built 600 hospitals they fucking didnt. So next time you tell me i have no merit fucking disprove me. Or have a good reason why im wrong dont hand me a fucking PR packet and smile.

Do not spam threads in cosmos, next time Ill issue warnings, i wont just delete your posts.

arghvark wrote: Yes that bring up a good point. Iraqi is going to have universal health care. Why cant we have that in the US?

"You think healthcare is expensive now? Just wait until it's free."

I don't know who the hell said that...

Universal healthcare isn't all rainbows and sunshine. It isn't even universal. It's healthcare on a waiting list... You've already paid for it, but as in Canada, state control only adds problems. More red tape, more trouble. It's medicine+expenses.

You know how health care costs could drop so low that a part-time job at McDonald's could pay for it? You de-regulate the industry.

I mean, it's not like the FDA never killed anyone by delaying approvals...

The western world has started to turn, and is headed back towards the dark ages. Instead of allowing things like healthcare and education to cost more - as we are - we should be sacrificing other things to ensure that they are cheap if not free for the majority. Almost every well-known historic figure has at some point commented that education is the key to a better world; that it, and it only will help us solve the problems that face us today.

In that case, why the hell did we let it get like this? You have to pay excessive amounts of money to get a decent education, and healthcare is becoming unaffordable, resulting in an unhealthy poulation...

We need politicians with balls.

One thing i find intersting is that Sweden wich has a Univesal healthcare system got a cheaper healthcare system that USA. (Bast on GNP% cost.) What i find odd is that politicians do not understand that in the future the healthcare and education got to cost becuse this thing can not get mush more effecnt like a major industry can. You can not reaplace Humans with robots in this areas becuse then ther would not be any need for them in the first place.

But they should be able to mass-produce drugs that are clearly needed by many people moreso than they are now, and our governments could artificially boost the industry by pumping money into it; the more they contribute, the more it can grow by itself, and considering the importance of it...

- Edited By PsychoBrat On Mon 19th, Jul 2004 @ 10:30:21pm

I think goverments need to invest more money in medicens but we hava also seen what the so called "Free Market" have done to the prices of medicens. The cost for many lifesaving drugs ar keept up so that big multinational companys can make more money. ADIS drugs ar keept from the 3rd world market not becuse they cost so mush to make but becuse the companys that makes this drugs make more money by keeping the price up so they can sell it rich 1st world. Many of this drugs have bin copyed and made a lot cheaper by national companys just so citizens for the 3rd world shode have the same chanse as 1st world. Some say that this companys that make this expestive ADIS drugs ar just covering ther R&D but this is bull. Most of the R&D is funded by Goverments around the world and not by the companys them self.

Maybe nationalist medical companys is the way to start producing cheaper drugs. Many of to days medical companys just seams care about treating the syntom and not the desease is self.

I never said or implied that universal health care was a cure all. I was pissed that the us goverment cares more about some pussies who couldnt overthrow a shit dictator who apparently killed alot of people.

Oh back to sadam agen.

What many do not understad is that during sadams rule the living conditions have became a lot better. I do not still like him but i have some understading for thos that just do not what to overthrow him. Iraqs history is not a prity one. I say thx to the damn Brits for the trubel Iraq is in. (the Ottoman French Greman USSR and US is also partly to blame.)

Anyone know how long the average Iraq citizen lived before Sadam and his nationalsation of the oil?

They say it takes two to tango, but in this case its more like triple that figure; there's been so many parties involved in bringing Iraq to its current state that its impossible to point the finger in one direction.

The important thing is however to make changes that result in an overall better outcome than the situation you were trying to solve, and I believe that regardless of Bush's motives, this will ultimately have a positive impact on the lives of current and future Iraqis.

Yokto wrote: Oh back to sadam agen.

What many do not understad is that during sadams rule the living conditions have became a lot better. I do not still like him but i have some understading for thos that just do not what to overthrow him. Iraqs history is not a prity one. I say thx to the damn Brits for the trubel Iraq is in. (the Ottoman French Greman USSR and US is also partly to blame.)

Anyone know how long the average Iraq citizen lived before Sadam and his nationalsation of the oil?

Ok back to saddam that was ABOUT F****** SADDAM!!!

- Edited By Pengus On Thu 22nd, Jul 2004 @ 3:56:02pm