Ok, Im gonna make this thread because I cant speak about this here (Argentina) due to the fact that (mostly) half the population will just bash against me and accuse me of being a "golpista" (that means, someone who overthrows democratic gov's).
First of all, some history about what happened during the 70's here in Argentina:
Argentina has been a very unstable country for at least 40 years. We had our first coup de etat back in the 30's, then we had another one in the 50's, then another two in the 60's and the last one during the 70's. Of course, the parties who ruled in between them were very different from each other. We had the PJ (the famous peronistas,initally centre-right wing, for a while leaning to the left, and then, returning to original position), splinter groups from the PJ and the UCR (Union Civica Radical, centre-left wing).
During the end 50's-start of the 60s, insurgent (subversivos, as well call them here) groups started to appear, most (Some others were marxist, like the Ejercito del Pueblo) of them were right wing nationalist catholics such as the Tacuara and FAL groups.
They carried out minor skirmishes around the country but they weren't strong nor organized enough to battle against the argentine army.
During the dictatorship previous to the 73's democracy, more serious groups started to appear, and this time, they were totally left wing with backup from the USSR satellite nations (Cuba, OLP members, etc). The most dangerous one were the ERP (marxist-stalinist) and the Montoneros (marxist-leninist).
One funny thing to remark about Montoneros, was that they said they wanted to bring back "A El General" (Peron was kicked out from the country during the 50's and exiled in Spain) therefore claiming they were Peronistas. They were originally formed by catholics who endorse the liberation theology (therefore, marxist)
The first terrorist action they (montoneros) carried out was the kidnapping and murder of Gnral.Aramburu, one of the leaders in the 50's dictatorship. He was sentenced to death by a kangaroo-court and shot during the last 60's dictatorship.
When Peron finally came back in the 73' and was elected democratically, he told them to stop the attacks and let him command them. Of course, they refused, seeing that Peron wasnt the left wing guy they were hoping for. They told him "No" in the way of killing his right hand man: Rucci. Who was supposed to be Peron's successor.
From this point till the 24 of march of 76', Montoneros engaged in a shitload of bombings, kidnappings, murders of civilians, military and police personnel and strikes to military bases with the objective of installing their own view of how things should work (Cuban-style). Hell, they managed to blow up a cafeteria in a police station killing 22 policemen and injuring 66. They even killed "in accident" children and innocent people. They financed all this by kidnapping foreign businessmen and asking for a ransom in return. The biggest one they got was 14.000.000 dollars from a US businessman. Plus, they got training and logistical support from Cuba.
In July 74', Peron died and her wife and also vice-president Isabel de Peron, assumed the command of the country. As you can see, Argentina was in deep shit, with a vacuum of power never seen before and more violent strikes from those terrorist groups (Last montonero's strike in democratic gov' was the takedown of an AC-130 killing 10 conscripts in the process). In the meanwhile, the ERP group was starting a vietnam-alike war in the north of the country. They managed to seize most of Tucuman and started expanding into Cordoba (Both Provinces are very mountainous with loads of woods). This generated a full fledged response from the military, who deployed elite commandos and paratroopers into the area. The ERP was finally beaten back in the attack to Monte Chingolo (Mil.Base). In the 24 of March of 76', the Military Junta decided to step in and take the power, they did that and we had a a shitload of more shit. Our economy worsened and we went to war with the British. Plus, they managed to kidnap people and kill them. Numbers? I wont go into this, but there is a huge speculation ranging from 10.000 to 22.000. The 30.000 number is just a thing used by the actual gov as propaganda.
Now, here comes the matter....after telling you all this....Should Montoneros/ERP crimes be considered against humanity? Of course, we have to set ONE thing before doing this;
-We had a war going on the country: Evidenced by the fact that they managed to strike military bases and to have support from foreign governments. Going so far (as I have already said) as taking one province.
-We were in peace, and we had terrorist organizations running amok and planting bombs etc etc.
If we set one of the previous options, then we have to either take into account the convention of ginebra or the Rome Statute. MIND YOU WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY DO NOT PROSCRIBE.
Let's take a closer look at what each one says.....:
GINEBRA:
Someone wrote: Persons taking no active part in hostilities, including military persons who have ceased to be active as a result of sickness, injury, or detention, should be treated humanely and that the following acts are prohibited:
violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
taking of hostages;
outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; and
the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
Someone wrote: Article 3 states that even where there is not a conflict of international character the parties must as a minimum adhere to minimal protections described as: noncombatants, members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions:(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;(b) taking of hostages;(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
Phew, taking these into account, Montoneros and ERP have committed war crimes.
If....there was no military conflict and they just a group of terrorists doing what they do best...then...let's take a look at the rome statute:
Someone wrote:For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:[20](a) Murder;(b) Extermination;(c) Enslavement;(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;(f) Torture;(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;(j) The crime of apartheid;(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.
Mind you these acts can be carried out by the state (What the junta did during the 76-83) period or by organized-armed political groups.
Doubts about Montoneros being a O.A. Political Group?
Ladies and gentlemen, with you, Mario "Pepe" Firmenich, the mastermind behind Montoneros who's now exiled in Spain (Irony maybe?):
The guy at the start, he is "Pepe. Here, let me translate what he says:
"Lets start with something. The strategy was not to save people. If we had had that strategy, we wouldn't have started. Our strategy was to transform the political structure of Argentina. The goal of an organized political group is not to save people. It's to take the power with minimum casualties".
Like we say here....More clear, pour some water.
So....what do you think?
Oh, and yeah, what's even funnier:
Some people here get subsidies from the gov' due to having dissapeared-appeared relatives (That's right, they were getting money for having someone dissapeared, but even though he re-appeared again, they still get the money) while those who had their relatives KILLED at hands of the terrorist organizations....get nothing.
Oh, and to top it off....the judicial power here wont recognize the "Organized armed political parties" part from the Rome Statute....wonder why? Because half the actual political power....was in montoneros or in other groups....
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