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*Please Check Comments/Description for updates. Latest Update was for DAO Update 20 2022/07/28* New balancing based on upgrade values and different immunities. **Contains own ammo file**. Not Grok's or Arti's Ballistics compatible.
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Finally someone would balance the armors to not be only underpowered and overpowered and nothing in between, great job 11/10.
Oh boy, I do say that the Nosorog with upgrades focused for ballistics is powerful at stopping up to a magazine or two worth of 5.45 on Poor Protection (Master effectively) with 4 upgraded steel plates from Moddb.com but it don't stop 3 shots from a SV98. :| On Great it takes roughly 4 mags or so. It does mean if you feel that it's too easy, you can reasonably up the difficulty.
Mind that I haven't done testing in the extreme and am currently doing a Loner run to test Loner Suits.
I ******* hate Ballistics overhauls damage ratios
What exactly do you mean o_O? OH if you mean if I'm using Grok's then no. I'm not.
Are patches for THAP and/or Trader Overhaul planned?
Not currently, I personally use Grok's for Arm Textures which works fine Moddb.com and am currently running Moddb.com which affects traders so I'm not sure if I'll do that. I mainly just want to get balance down first as a main goal.
No problem! How much testing did you do till now? I just ask because I would just copy the stats of the armors into my existing mods to test the mod but I do not want to do that only to find an update in 2 days :D
Just compiling suit details in a revision. Starting with Loner as I've stated above, I might take a long while as I do other things.
Currently I see no issues with leather jackets and the starting jacket plus respirator on loner start at 100% can easily go into the rad field north of Rookie Village, didn't try other fields but if they are like that in Cordon, it should be fine for the most part.
Looking at the Sunrise series atm. I also am seeing what gasmasks are effective in combo. Some need some changes both positive and negative in terms of prices and protections to serve their purposes while being more unique to their role. I am also giving an artifact slot for the standard Sunrise.
I will keep a close eye on this addon then. Since I play with for example Arszi's Radiation Overhaul I do not know if your balance would work with my game style.
It took me ~2 weeks to make my kind of own anomaly work and I do not have the will power to go over all suits now too.
What changes did you make so that it took two weeks?
I applied 230 mods, for now.
To make them all work correctly I had to check every overwritten config, script etc and merge them myself.
After that I had to changed and compared the stats of ammunition and every weapon because for example "Grok's Balanced Overhaul Of Ballistic System" and "Boomsticks & Sharpsticks" made the weapon system pretty imbalance stat wise (Example: A weapon from B&S did 39 damage with a price of 66k and other weapons which cost 120k+ made maybe 40 with the same ammunition). I even created some new ammunition myself because some weapons just had one ammunition type which made them pretty inflexible. Then I changed the description of the ammunition to implement a better stat for armor-pen and damage and it is correct to what I changed. Then I overhauled "Grok's Body Health System Redux" because most meds and drugs where useless and some were OP. The whole food & drink system is overhauled, stat and price wise, with FAMINE and Arszi's radiation Overhaul. I made my own symbols or modified other for many items.
I could mumble on and on so I just say I pretty much altered every aspect of the game for my liking.
Good grief, that's a huge job !!
Adding a new addon could force you to redo much of the work again, you must be very careful.
Could you pass a screenshot of the addons you use, some may be interesting and the addons I use still work with each other.
Not really, if there is not a fundamental problem with a script and how it works everything can easy be copied and merged.
A reason why it took me so long is that I had zero experience with this stuff and needed to make sense to it myself. In the end it is not hard at all but by any means I could not create my own addons now.
I'm installing my mods the same way, only manually. It really become pretty easy over time. Of course it's an advantage to own some knowledge about Lua and/or being a dev. Also it helps a lot with development of my own addons, because you get to know the file structure and functionality of all files. But the biggest advantage of manual installation and management of addons is that you have full control about compatibility and simply can make ALL addons compatible with each other.
However, a tool like BCompare (simply the best one I know for this) makes it quite easy to handle for everyone.
Geebus. That's a lot. o-o
Yeah maybe :D. The sad part is that it made no sense to create patches or similar because for the most part you would need all the implemented addons to make them work.
In the middle of doing this process myself. Totally feel the sadness for the inability to create patches for things. I also had to learn as I went which has prolonged the process.
If you don't mind explain, how did you determine values for changed weapon damages/food prices/drug effects? I can't determine what an effective change is as I can't really playtest it fully because there are too many things I have to change to fully determine the balancing of the entire game.
Every item stat can be changed in their .ltx data which you can find in "Mod Organizer 2\mods\Adjustable_scopes.6\gamedata\configs\items" there are weapons, outfits, various items (Repair/cooking/meds/drugs etc.). Some addons for exmaple DLTX ones will implement stuff which is loaded differently, if you have those mods you can easy browse the data of the addon itself and should find the right .ltx to edit what you want.
The best method is to use the bar on the right side of Mod Organizer 2 with the tab name "Data" there you will always select the one data which is loaded in your current mod setup and when you hover over it you see all mods which modify that one data too if you want to merge stuff.
To merge stuff I recommend Notepad++ with the compare plugin.
Thats awesome. Do you think you'll release a preset?
I could but I think not everyone would like how I set up the game. For example I am balancing the weapons damages ad prices atm and to make thinks work for me and how I play you would need to pay up to 500.000 Roubles for a top tier weapon but lower tier weapon like 60.000 would work good too in southern zones and would be okay in middle to northern zones with good ammo.
It's working fine with THAP for me (first person hud models show up fine and the stats are unchanged from what is provided by the addon, i let S&HR; overwrite THAP anyway) as for Trader Overhaul i am not sure.
Addendum: uh, i kinda extensively modded my game on my own and tweaked a lot of .ltx files so i can't exactly tell you what i did on so few lines.
That's good. I just hope THAP doesn't get updated/changed around too often. That would mean extra stuff and the only reason I chose to do the THAPs is because I used THAP and really liked it. Now I use Grok's Arms because it doesn't change the files and only the textures.
Thank you, was looking to do some re-balancing on helmets myself.
They are not exactly endgame as that's more for complete suits. Mostly they are the weird factor as suits and helmets get damaged differently since if the suit is worse, they degrade first so most have varying levels of protection as to bypass the vanilla instantly broken because no protection to say, chemical.
SKAT suits are a good choice for Helmet combos and I will be getting around to checking those soon.
Note to Anyone :
Ballistics are a whole another ball game with how it's measured because of damages LTX and hit fraction located in the suit files. I will not be touching these as I have no real way of accurately gauging damage dealt to you and to the suit/helmet other than how many bullets I ate in Dev mode and even that's not accurate based on distance and positioning in a non test scenario. Not to mention the AI can shoot either your head or chest or even legs/arms.
From Tronex's explanation file in discord:
if (AP <= BoneArmor) then:
hit power = hit power * outfit hit fraction (for actor)
else:
d_hit_power = (AP - BoneArmor) / (AP * APScale)
clamp( d_hit_power , outfit hit fraction (for actor) , 1.0)
hit power = hit power * d_hit_power
Yeah... That's also kinda why I don't want to do that. Too much maths. o-o Not to mention upgrades which I only accounted for with high end suits, not messing with that.
In case it helps, Hit_fraction can mostly just be thought of as how much damage you take if your armor blocks the incoming round. So hit_fraction .4 means you take 40% of the enemy's weapons hit power, .2 means 20%, etc. If the round penetrates hit_fraction is basically ignored.
That I understand.
It's the math involving ballistics, AP values of ammo and the damages ltx that confound me into not changing the values found since there is no definite answer to equaling out the effectiveness of the armors unless I want to make them into Levels by say making a chart similar to the EFT one with pen values but that's pretty much done with Grok's Ballistics.
But I might still take a deep dive after all the stuff I'm currently doing to go look at it and maybe make adjustments as a optional addon once I have a better understanding of it if I do wish to go that far.
Oh yeah I see what you're saying. There's even values like "ap_scale" which I believe is just an arbitrary adjustment based on "feel". If you do go further good ******* luck, lol.
Looks interesting ,maybe i can finally enjoy using of several instead of one or two like right now i do.
How far are you with testing it? Can we expect update soon ,or is it in almost done state already?
I just uploaded the 1st version last night. This will take time my friendo.
As stated, I am playing through as Loner and might make a 1.1 after I have adequately compared suits and gasmasks/helmets. Then go through each faction that I haven't played/was allied with in my Loner playthrough to get a better assessment for other suits/headgear and use a base suit to define other suits such as a Loner Seva vs others.
I have yet to get feedback too which means either everyone's happy or they've yet to play around fully.
thanks for answer ,definitely it looks nice so i'll try it for sure :)
And these suints and helmets have enough durability too?
That is not on the table just yet.
Alrighty then, but still good luck with this modding.
Don't know if it matters much, but you've got all the NBC suits 'kind =o_light' lines commented out. For what it's worth though, I like the idea of making them light suits
I must of overlooked that in the NBCs as I was looking more at protections, I'm most likely going to change them to a Medium on account of the weight carry.
I´m gonna be blunt here, but it´s not meant to be rude. The armor values are probably one of the most mysterious/spaghetti nightmare coded things in Anomaly, and the problem is to understand what exactly they actually do, like at what point does a burner kill you, how many attacks from a dog, lurker, chimera does this and that protection allow you to survive.
Do you actually understand the meaning of those values? Releasing this and only then testing this in a running game seems... optimistic? Ideally you would probably want to test this by giving different suits different values, put them all in your inv via debug and take notes how much an anomaly/mutant hurts you. I don´t see the point of doing this if, for example, one doesn´t know up to what point a chim one-hits you, and how many attacks of a dog that translates to.
Yeah, the fact that Stalker's whole stat system is extremely unintuitive and nebulous across the board really makes life difficult, both for those using it, and for those who want to tweak it.
Still, respect to anyone who tries. It would be great if more gear in the game were viable under certain circumstances, rather than the current state of affairs where the only reason not to use a meta suit for everything is that you can't afford/find one.
In Actor Ltx, there's a max protection value for various damages such as fire_wound with 2.2 max. Now assuming that the values are the limit and looking at the vanilla stats, I kind of had the idea what to go with.
The whole scaling that I've done thus far was meant to make suits clearly get better overtime as a whole and to make the factions have defined roles and not need to get other faction suits since I always found it a tad un-immersive to be running around in a Monolith Nosorog or a ACE Merc suit as a Loner.
There are better suits than your faction suits in some cases but that shouldn't mean that the suits your faction has are always garbage which is the point of testing it out.
About mutants and anomalies. Damage wise, I do not think it's easy to judge since all those mutants (dogs, lurkers, chimeras and any other jumping/charging ones) they also have a velocity dealt with damage, discounting the normal melee attacks for now. I did get attacked by a cat near the start of my loner playthrough and noticed that a minimum charge barely taps my health while a full charge made me lose a lot in a leather jacket iirc. Anomalies are not the real test so much as the fields (thermal/psi/chemical/rad) that might overpower your suit/helmet. Avoiding actual anomalies is imperative and just to know that Burners in all cases will instagib you since on Poor Protection in gameplay prog. you take 10.9 times (down to 5.45 on Great) damage from them via burn_immunity unless I'm mistaken.
I was waiting for something like this, thank you
Now finally every armor have its role in the game and you'll not be restricted on the tier
Added to the waiting list, we will see the change lists in the next updates.
I love the idea, the concept of helmets are very limited but the biggest challenge will be to make it compatible with essential addons such as trader overhaul, arzsis radiation overhaul, toxic air, powered exos, etc. which have somewhat changed the progression of "vanilla" and / or have added new items that affect the progression
good luck!
I have not looked too keenly into those addons yet as I want to first see how the suits work after changes. If the addons do not change what's in the folders, you can use it and see if your experience is better or worse. I do believe as well that my addon can be removed and added at anytime so long as you clear artifacts/attachments before I begin to change amounts.
Patch 1.1 is a go. Along with THAP Rev Anomaly Compatibility. Remember to read the Notes.
Nice THAP compatibility man! Now imma dunk everything at the same time to see how it goes.
P.S.: See a good suggestion would be for you to make some changes to the Exoseva CBSE outfits addon and include your altered files as a patch file, so every suit would feel more integrated.
I'm now doing the THAP Rework + HD Models patch. The Rework was a few lines. HD Models patch is quite a few more.
The Exoseva's are on their own are pretty good iirc, I might look them over but no promises.
Update: Just checked the suits and they match SKAT's relatively in Physical but Anomaly is just lower than some Sevas of my addon. There is also a multitude of other files/compatibility files in there so I'm not sure I would like to go above and beyond with the compatibility patches as I have no clue if they even work correctly unless someone says so.
THAP Rework is finished alongside the HD Models Version for those using that.
Please say if it works for you and please backup your gamedatas prior to copying over.
Edit : Traders Overhaul. I'm not exactly sure why it's being asked for unless everyone who's asked so far is using the outfits. Same with the ExoSevas, I really feel if that If I give them a change/added in, I'll be claiming that I know suits better than the creators in a way (Kinda rude ngl) plus this addon has been more about the vanilla suits.
Patch 1.1.5 is up.
1.2 will be focusing entirely on Duty Outfits with maybe some Loner.
Holy cow!
I see you made the very fix i was looking earlier this week, the mercenary NBC not displaying properly under the inventory category because the kind = o_light string was commented for whatever reason, made it o_medium and removed the comment and it worked on my own but it is good to see this fix packed here.
There was a lot of things commented out in some of the files like the Proto Exos. The Nosorogs didn't even have fire_wound_protection. o-o
fire_wound_protection is not used by the game at all.
Bullet protection is handled by hit_fraction_actor and bones_koeff_protection sections inside damages.ltx
Had I known this prior, a lot of armors would have different armor_classes and hit_fractions once I got the idea about what values to use.
Thank you for mentioning it.
So we'll see an updated version in the future with that in mind?
Yes.
It might not be to many people's liking however.
Since the way I'm doing it is that damage is reduced more on a percent basis scaling downward because lower hit_fraction means less damage taken if the round doesn't penetrate armor like sunrises stop only 30% or 0.7 in my version if not pierced vs what it was like before with 0.5 or half damage.
This also make armor upgrades more valuable since they reduce hit_fraction as well.
So if the bullet does not penetrate the armor you get or do more damage than vanilla?
*Yes, the set values I have are set higher than vanilla. (some might be lower thou)
If the bullet penetrates the armor, Hit_fraction means nothing.
If it doesn't penetrate, you only get dealt the percentage that hit_fraction covers.
With the sunrise as a example again.
You get shot and armor is pierced. 100% of the damage is dealt.
On the flipside, you get shot but your armor holds. You get dealt 70% of the total damage. It may seem low but later suits go down to 35-25%.
Now to you that may seem like a lot but to compensate for that, I am making some suits upped in armor class. I don't exactly know how they work but that's the fun in testing things.
Mh okay.
I play with Grok's Ballistic Overhaul mod and moded some weapon stats myself and for my liking NPC with an Exo suit should be pretty Tanky, so if you use ammo which does not penetrate the armor you should do very low damage so you have to use good ammo.
I need to test that stuff myself to see if I like it that way then.