Poll started by feillyne with 6,608 votes and 90 comments. Browse the poll archive.
Procedurally generated (1965 votes)
Hand-made (4643 votes)
Ok, I managed to accidentally select the wrong option and hit vote.
I can agree.
so did i crap
I think most of us are guilty of this.
I'm sure Hand-made would still be the victor regardless.
IMO hand made may be better for quality where Procedurally generated would be better for replayability
Totally agree. I still prefer hand-made game levels because of the many much things a mapper can do with it. Also, it depends on the type of game you want to create obviously:
*cough* Minecraft with hand made levels *cough* (Whaaat?? :O) :P
technically we all hand make our own minecraft levels
we had a hand, but we had absolutely no control.
Creating a Minecraft world using a seed value is about as liberating carving a wooden statue with a wood chipper.
a perfect analogy. although if you factor in creative mode technically you could fashion your own map completely handmade.
That's not the issue. Even if it was the "winner", the survey would still say that x amount of people want generated levels, even though that's not true.
Edit: For some reason, my comment is a reply to Jasper, it was intended to be a reply to Lucifer.
You and the other 29% bro
I VOTED FOR PROCEDURALLY GENERATED
Well, I WANTED to vote for it.
In most cases, hand-made, it has more personality.
I think this really depends on the game. Hand crafted levels are generally more detailed and beautiful. Procedural generated levels are less varied on the art side but are great for dungeon crawlers due to randomisation. So it really depends. But due to my experiences with Stalker Misery, I am leaning more to the hand made side.
If someone made hand-made tiles that could form to each other when randomized on a world scale...
The best game world ever.
Some games make buildings then generate them around randomly in a game, so it can be kind of a mix between the two. Procedurally generated is the best for open world games cause it allows for a much larger playing field and almost endless amounts to explore (Though you might get bored after a while)
Yes, Skyrim did something like that, but even Skyrim started getting repetitive after a while of secondary missions
Warframe did something like that
Yeah, exactly my thoughts as well.
However, they can end up being predictable.
I like Hand-made levels for the same reason as FrikysKiller.
Given my choice of games (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.), hand made.
You are my hero mate, stalker all the way
Thanks, and don't forget to shoot Duty in their fat ******* face. Smug bastards.
How can a generated level even be compared to what a game developer could make? Unless you send the level designing AI to some sort of art school the developer will almost always make a better level.
No one is talking about AI. procedural generation is used in games like Minecraft. It's algorithms that generate random terrain, not an AI
I'm sure procedural generation is just magic then and has nothing to do with an artificial intelligence of some description.
It has nothing to do with AI, it's made with heavy coding.
Actually, in its own way, it is AI. You're giving the computer a specific and carefully made algorithm to follow, which is pretty much its behavior. It's artificial(manmade) intelligence(application of skills/knowledge). AI =/= NPC.
It depends on the game really. I wouldn't want my roguelikes to be handmade because it would be the same game every run. With (randomly) procedural generation every run is different and full of surprises! However is a game is all about exploration it's usually better to have hand-made levels, because a good level designer can make a location tell it's story by just the level design. A level generator can't, obviously.
The only problem is that nowadays many artists over-artsy their levels believing it "tells a story" where in the end it's just an overcluttered place which is uninteresting and looks highly fabricated you can't relate to to begin with. Well made levels don't feel "fabricated" (aka hand made). There's though little levels falling into that category today unfortunately.
Otherwise as you said, it depends on the game. Best is a mix of the two to have the hand-made level but randomize certain stuff in it to contain some surprises. That said... if the game "is" actually worth it enough to play it a second time (another something many games nowadays fail at).
Tiles. The success lies in tiles. Tiles for everything, like clutter, NPCs, geological formations, everything.
Take for example SimCity (not the new one, God forbid). To build cities, you place blocks and tiles. However, you won't put a skyscraper in a rural area, so the game would automatically cancel that operation out. But in a farm can go a barn, a homestead, a garage, or pond. All of these are designed to have multiple "models" (maybe like 3 or something), and are hand-made. Thus, the artist gets to put creativity into tiles. By restricting the amount of tiles in a space, like a barn and a pond out of the original 4, 24 available options can be created. Thus, during a playthough, it could be one of 24 possible locations. Now if someone did this at a world level, a randomly generated world could work well with artistic intent.
For example, the world is 30 "cells" by 30 "cells". In each cell can go 4 tiles. So that's 120 tiles by 120 tiles, creating a total of 14400 tiles that are randomly generated. However, blocks of cells can make up a geological formation, like a mountain, where "mountain tiles" can be placed. Another would be a desert, a swamp, and so on. Each Cell would have quests relating to similar cells, or cells nearby. Seeds like the ones used in minecraft could create presets to play on, if you want to experience the same things as other people.
Scale the player however you want, but you have a fuckton of environment.
TL;DR: Basically make a game where tiles are handmade, and then randomly generated by the world.
Edit: Holy ****, that's a long post.
This method has my endorsement.
This is basically putting the effort into a handmade game, then using procedural generation to effectively stretch out that effort into more world space.
You don't get 'infinite', but you can do a lot more and not have to skimp on style, artful design or atmosphere, a few of the key things a game needs to really draw you in.
The art side of this comes in creating a rule set for what renders in each tile and however many subtiles there are. For instance, you can't have tree's popping up above the treeline or snow on a tropical beach, to name a few extreme instances.
Once you set up rules, you can set what assets fit into these rules and assign the chances of them spawning in a given tile. This can be done to get a base game world started for even static open world games, such as skyrim. Start a randomly generate world, then go through and basically impose artistic design on the results, kinda like how some artists do a random squiggle on the paper to spark an idea.
tl;dr, basically agree with you, wished to elaborate and add my own take on it.
"Nosferatu: The Wrath of Malachi" can be a good example IMHO. Hand-made levels with randomized enemies, items, weapons and ammo spawns every time you load or replay the game:
"Oh, there's a werewolf behind that door on the left that killed me! Ok I'll load my last save and I try to kill him!" *Opens the door* *There's a ghost insted of a werewolf, and it's on the right instead of on the left* - "WTF??? D:".
I agree with Metalspy 100%.
Proteus tells a pretty good story about someone who is abandoned on an island and is procedurally generated
As a scenario designer for Empire Earth, I love hand made scenarios.
All I had to read was Empire Earth and +1 haha
Depends on the game-type. I generally prefer hand-made, but if the genre is right in that unpredictability helps with the experience (dungeon crawlers, certain horror titles and the game Reciever) procedural generation can do wonders.
Even though I prefer hand-made over procedurally generated.
Handmade is more carefully put together where with generated it can be full of bugs and not that well made so handmade is best :D
But procedurally generated games allow more replay value.
I would love to see more modern games use procedurally generated game worlds, as it theoretically allows infinite gameplay, provided it's good enough to stop the player from being bored to begin with.
Minecraft had the right idea but falls short on actual adventure and RPG mechanics, and I hope Cube World doesn't turn into vaporware.
I must actually say that I really enjoyed Minecraft, up to but not including the beta-patch 1.8 which implemented all the RPG elements. I prefered it to be very simple and let the players stand for all the creativity.
To me, pre-1.8 Beta felt like glorified Lego; not for everyone.
Hand-made games are the gates to a world of creativity and imagination. If game is hand-made, you know a lot of effort has been put to it.
For example, most of the modifications here on ModDB are hand-made, and mods are the things that make our favourite games look so amazing, it's like you had butterflies coming out of yo butt. This epicness is due the fact the are hand-made. Of course producively generated games are great too, but they won't beat hand-made games by long shot.
Ignore this, since I am a lazy *** bastard I didn't read the whole poll description, so I predicted we are talking about GAMES, not LEVELS OF GAMES.
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