Would you like to see a wiki based system for our tutorials?

Wait, we have tutorials on this site?

I think having a site like this for tutorials would be relatively useless. There's already plenty of sites like that around for so many topics...

I own a Wiki, and believe me, it is a lot of work. I mean the tuts probably do need reorganizing but, with a wiki, it is viable to be changed if not ruined. Although there are ways to prevent it such as setting it to Members only or admins + mods only, and you can revert any changes to past changes. If your planning on having people improving on articles and tuts over time it is a good idea, but if you want articles to retain the original stuff, something else could be in order. Maybe a full site like addonDB or modDB, people could submit tuts in a similar fashion, as submitting mods and addons. Could be labeled TutDB or something. People could then submit comments about the tut, then the person who owned it, could make changes etc... This would also prevent vandalism, because only the owner can make serious changes.

I'll be posting a link to an example picture I'm making

ModWiki did a pretty decent job, although I still went with "no".

First Vote FTW!!!!

Not many votes...but wiki's are very sucsesfull. Look at how Gmod's tutorial wiki turned out.

Even more so, look how Valve's developer wiki turned out. I agree with a Wiki format, they are very handy and can be used well.

Yeah, I think a Wiki could be great.

Wiki FTW! (though of course only let registered members edit articles!)

I'm all for the wiki format. it's easy to use and very organized.

No, a wiki is a terrible idea. It takes a lot of preening and organisation to keep a wiki even useable, and when the vast majority of registered members can't even set up a simple readable mod profile. Wikis are also massive security holes when they're not busy being defaced and vandalised.

Any Wikis we make *must* be linked into things like VDC and UnrealWiki. Not doing everything possible to reduce the duplication of those two sites' content alone would be a government-like mistake!

I'm with blck here. Tutorials need overhauling, but wikis without a very specific and strong community tend to fall apart and suffer article creep. What would be better is stripping tutorials down into small chunks, and having 'focus' on them by a small team of people who know what they're doing. Once the technical bit is done we send in one of our editing team to make sure it flows and is well written.

Ideally every tutorial should have example work, an overview, a step-by-step guide, and hints and tips from the pros.

Even if initially we only do this for big topics as a kind of "Coding 101" or "Mapping 101" it'll help those who simply don't have a clue where to begin. For example, a "Half-Life 2 Coding Quick Start" would tell you exactly the IDE you need (VS.NET 2003 iirc), how to install and configure it, how to get hold of the SDK, how to make one talk to the other, and how to do something simple like change the fire rate of a gun. At that point it doesn't go "Compile and run", it says exactly where the button will be to compile (in a default configuration) and how to load the game.

I've found that all most newbies to something want is a guide they can print which holds their hand through the first changes. Past that, tutorials can assume the person has already got the thing working.

Perhaps having 'routes' which tutorial writers can define? So if they have an "Add New Weapon to HL2" tutorial they could say you need to complete (in order) the "Get Steam SDK", "Install and Configure VS.NET", "Configure VS.NET to use HL2" and "Basic HL2 Coding" tutorials.

Everything is up in the air at the moment, so we need your ideas no matter how outlandish!

I love the current system, the only thing needed is more tutorials not a wiki.

please don't make a dam wiki it will just make it more complesx to navigate O_o

A wiki is fine too...

No. No Wiki. That's too damn confusing O_o

I agree with jackson. We need a reform, not a whole new system of doing things. We've come this far with it. Don't drop it now.

WIKI YAY :)

Hey again, back with the design I was putting together. The site i usually use to host images is offline so I'm using my own Wiki database, but anyways heres the TutDB design. Click on High res link below it, it shows the full size thing, in higher quality. Please note that the design thing is a little... scrappy, and i had to break some size ratio things just to get the stuff in the middle to fit. The logo thing on the top left is also scrappy i just put that there to follow the theme, so that is obviously would be better. The pattern of those dots on the right, were pretty hard to duplicate, I had to redesign it so it could look better, but they give the general idea, as well as all the other things.
Theres are 2 Easter eggs on the page.
In the middle where all the news and stuff is, there will be the top 4 tuts, then you got the latest tuts bellow. You got a tut of the month on the far bottom. Any more details, just ask.
I hope you take my idea into consideration, cuz it would work with the Moddb site theme, that and it took awhile to draw up, with Paint.

Make both Wiki and what we have now, since some ppl like Wiki and know how to use it while other ppl want it as it is now.

A wiki could work, but only as long as some measures are taken to prevent or fix tampering. There will always be the idiot who has to delete everything or mess with it. A backup database and report broken page system is always an option.

You can revive deleted articles on a wiki

perhaps modDB should employ some sort of points system to encourage postings

ive seen these systems work before with good results

A wiki could work, but only as long as some measures are taken to prevent or fix tampering. There will always be the idiot who has to delete everything or mess with it. A backup database and report broken page system is always an option.

Thats why Wikis have History of a page that you can revert back to
The problem I have with a Wiki is that the entire thing would feel so detached from ModDB. Integrating it into ModDB would probably be more work than its worth.

I voted for wiki, 'cause I like the way Wikipedia works.
But I am having second thoughts, because Wikipedia has lots of dedicated authors and admins.
You might want to consider whether or not you got the manpower to keep the wiki clean.

Fine as is.

The wiki should probably be made so that every change must be accepted by an admin.
That would prevent any vandalism.

I mean, the change does not come into effect before an admin has cheked that it is OK.

I'm pretty sure you can't do that on a wiki, it was designed as an open source system so everyone can add to it, but admins can lock articles, so that only registered users or only other admins can edit it.
There might be a hack somewhere that might to Article mod thing, but it is doubtfull.

Wiki wrote: Please note that all contributions to Ifclan may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here.

There isn't much you can do to prevent vandalism, except locking completed tuts, and making members only for unfinished, but you can block users.

no need to join the cool bandwagon when the system u have works.

jacksonj04 wrote: Even if initially we only do this for big topics as a kind of "Coding 101" or "Mapping 101" it'll help those who simply don't have a clue where to begin. For example, a "Half-Life 2 Coding Quick Start" would tell you exactly the IDE you need (VS.NET 2003 iirc), how to install and configure it, how to get hold of the SDK, how to make one talk to the other, and how to do something simple like change the fire rate of a gun. At that point it doesn't go "Compile and run", it says exactly where the button will be to compile (in a default configuration) and how to load the game.

I've found that all most newbies to something want is a guide they can print which holds their hand through the first changes. Past that, tutorials can assume the person has already got the thing working.

Perhaps having 'routes' which tutorial writers can define? So if they have an "Add New Weapon to HL2" tutorial they could say you need to complete (in order) the "Get Steam SDK", "Install and Configure VS.NET", "Configure VS.NET to use HL2" and "Basic HL2 Coding" tutorials.

I think putting forward a certain "rulebook" that follows the above example would be a good foot to start on. As Jackson mentioned, a lot of the current tutorials go on about "compile and run" (as an example), while newbie modders, might not even have the slightest clue where any of that is, or what it does. I mean, keep in mind, not everyone's first language here is english. There would have to be a certain set of guidelines people need to follow, if they want to release a tutorial on modDB. And the idea about having a very basic 101/first steps/absolute beginners set of tutorials for the different fields of modding (coding, mapping, modelling, 2d artists, etc) is a must, in my opinion.

@ Setis

I'd love to work on a project like that. Perhaps each one would have resources and basic operations. For example, the 2D GFX 101 might have links to a few tutorial sites, then a overview of the interface and tools for Photoshop and GIMP.