Faithfulness image - Star Wars: Empire at War: Rebellion mod for Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption

Only a sith deals in absolte.

Hmmm, I wonder if the next saga films will have JJ style lens flares.

Or filmed through a kaleidoscope like Dr Strange

Dormammu, I've come to bargain.

If you try to equate lens flares to modern graphics, you're gonna have a bad time.

Jeroenimo Dude, how dare you disrespect the effects of Return of the Jedi. They worked hard on those effects and that was crazy awesome to people back when it came out. If you think that looks bad, then your not a Star Wars fan. Also, it's his work, not your's. Don't tell him what he can put on his work dude.

@[Darth`Vader](members:astralith1:3394472) Dude, How dare you disrespect Nazi Germany? They worked hard on that world war and Jew genocide and it was crazy awesome to people back when it happened. If you think that looks bad, then you're not a world citizen. Also, it's their work, not yours, don't tell those Nazis what they can put into their country.

I love it when people are so dumb that you can literally take their own message to illustrate their stupidity. Your message is the pinacle of idiocy, and I'm happy that you were stupid enough to write it down in the way that you did, because it makes it so easy for me to debunk your entire message without even having to go into any real arguments. I just rewrite your message, change a few words, and now my message, which is actually your message, sounds completely retarded to you. And that's great, because now you see how retarded your own message was. Thanks for wrecking yourself without realizing it. That was so easy.

I could go into real arguments. Might. If you decide to reply again calling this message...well, whatever word you'll use, then I'll go into real arguments, and your comment will be flattened by the end of it.

Jeronimo I love how you said nothing about my actually comment. Sorry I guess your to dumb to understand what I said. Let me repeat it:

Dude, how dare you disrespect the effects of Return of the Jedi. They worked hard on those effects and that was crazy awesome to people back when it came out. If you think that looks bad, then your not a Star Wars fan. Also, it's his work, not your's. Don't tell him what he can put on his work dude.

@[Darth`Vader](members:astralith1:3394472) "I could go into real arguments. Might. If you decide to reply again calling this message...well, whatever word you'll use, then I'll go into real arguments, and your comment will be flattened by the end of it."

Oh boy he's back and he wants to go into real arguments. Here we go, lets dismantle this entire comment.

"Dude, how dare you disrespect the effects of Return of the Jedi."

ROTJ came out in 1983. It's special effects were, much like most other special effects from that time, barely acceptable in that time, which means they're absolutely terrible at the present day. Which means we as artists should not aim to create subpar work, like ****** special effects, and instead should aim to create realistic special effects. You know, like they did, and failed, because they didn't have the tech. We now have the technology, and can do way better. And we should. Not according to you though, we should stick to the terrible quality of decades past. If it were up to you clearly games like Star Citizen would not exist, instead, we'd still be playing X wing alliance since it apparently is good enough.

"They worked hard on those effects and that was crazy awesome to people back when it came out. "
Show someone from North Korea a 10 year old mobilephone. He'll think it's the best and most amazing thing he's ever seen. Does this mean it's a good mobilephone? No, it's a ****** 10 year old phone. He'll still be amazed though. Does it matter how much work was put into it? No. Quality isn't measured in time spent creating, it's measured in the end result. And the end result, those special effects, were ****. They do not hold up, they did not age well, and if you were to watch that movie today you'd think they look like ****. This scentence is rediculously stupid and I'm sure you yourself can see how dumb you sound.

The next part is so stupid that I can't believe you dared to repeat it, since you apparently cannot see your own stupidity. I guess I'll have to explain this.
"If you think that looks bad, then your not a Star Wars fan."
So lets explain what you say here:
"If you think the special effects of ROTJ look bad, you're not a star wars fan."
In other words:
"You're only a star wars fan if you like the effects of ROTJ"
Already starting to understand why it's stupid? No? Then lets dig deeper. You define being a fan of star wars as liking the ROTJ effects. Not the story, not the characters, not the setting, not the unique universe it's set in, but ONLY the ROTJ special effects. Which were, objectively, ****. As soon as you start defining what being a "fan" of something means exactly, you've already lost the argument since you're arguing semantics. It's the part of your argument that's most literally, factually, stupid. Can't put it clearer. Don't take my word for it, I didn't think it up, linguists did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
Let me quote Wiki: "A fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning, or "wrong moves" in the construction of an argument."

Next part. "Also, it's his work, not yours. Don't tell him what he can put on his work dude." I fixed the apostrophe for you. Ever heard of critisism? No? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism
Only through critisism and feedback can we further our artistic work. the fact that you misunderstand this shows your complete lack of aptitude.

There is literally no part of your comment that is not complete nonsense, I suppose explaining it to you (giving critisism that you can then use to improve your discussion skills, see this is why critisism is important and good) will help you to not make these verbal mistakes again, logical fallacies, but still. I already said your comment was going to be flattened by the end of my statements, and I tried to avoid completely making you look like an idiot, but you did ask for it, so there you have it. Hope you're happy now. Now go stand in the shame corner.

@[Jeroenimo](members:jeroenimo:396890) This would explain why this took about 3 days. I did see three things though:

The next part is so stupid that I can't believe you dared to repeat it, since you apparently cannot see your own stupidity. I guess I'll have to explain this.
"If you think that looks bad, then your not a Star Wars fan."
So let's explain what you say here:
"If you think the special effects of ROTJ look bad, you're not a star wars fan."
In other words:
"You're only a star wars fan if you like the effects of ROTJ"
Already starting to understand why it's stupid? No? Then lets dig deeper. You define being a fan of star wars as liking the ROTJ effects. Not the story, not the characters, not the setting, not the unique universe it's set in, but ONLY the ROTJ special effects.

If you don't like the effects of the Star Wars ROTJ then are not a Star Wars fan including not liking the story or characters. Not liking the effects is just one of the things.

Also:

"They worked hard on those effects and that was crazy awesome to people back when it came out. "
Show someone from North Korea a 10 year old mobilephone. He'll think it's the best and most amazing thing he's ever seen. Does this mean it's a good mobilephone? No, it's a ****** 10 year old phone. He'll still be amazed though. Does it matter how much work was put into it? No. Quality isn't measured in time spent creating, it's measured in the end result. And the end result, those special effects, were ****. They do not hold up, they did not age well, and if you were to watch that movie today you'd think they look like ****. This scentence is rediculously stupid and I'm sure you yourself can see how dumb you sound.

If you gave a 10-year-old a phone like that back in the 1980's, it would have been awesome for both a 10 year and an 18-year- old.

Finally:

Ever heard of critisism? No? En.wikipedia.org
Only through critisism and feedback can we further our artistic work. the fact that you misunderstand this shows your complete lack of aptitude.

Ever heard of a suggestion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion
And if your going to criticize someone, a least be nice about it.

Ask a random REAL Star Wars fan and ask them if the effects were awesome for its time. I'm 90% sure they will say it was great for its time. Maybe instead of making an essay on Word Document, you should be learning how to get some manners.

And learn how to spell, idiot. Oh my god....

Hi,

first of all, can we please not drift into a "learn spelling" sort of flamewar? You confused "your" and "you're" in just 5 lines twice. Assuming your mother tongue is English, that's pretty bad. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of basic grammar concepts. But then again, my post will probably not be any better, so let's not get into language mud throwing arguments here. An American, Dutch and German arguing about grammar or spelling isn't exactly a good idea :D

Now for the content. I think you're misunderstanding each other.
You're saying: "The effects were awesome at that time".
He's saying "The effects are not awesome by todays standard".
Both of you are correct. Being awesome at a certain point in time doesn't mean they're still awesome. Back then Lara Croft games had her with a nice triangular nose. Would anyone nowadays make a Lara Croft game with a low-quality model like that? Of course not. Or even simpler, back then 360p clips were considered top-quality. Nowadays, things are rendered in 720p minimum, mostly 1080p.

So all G is arguing here is, that reproducing bad quality isn't something one should strive for. It won't be pleasant to most people who are used to todays quality. Or would you even consider watching 360p videos on youtube right now? No. And just like 1080p is simply a better quality than 360p that provides more detail, one can improve the model quality of the original ROTJ assets without being unfaithful or inaccuracte to the movie.

On the other hand if you are "faithful to the originals", you can't separate "being faithful" from "being lazy". Since the effects of that '83 movie are really easily reproducible with todays technology. I don't want to imply the author of this mod is lazy, but you simply can't tell what the truth is.
Remaking something to be of higher quality on the other hand isn't easy at all and takes a lot of time. I think that's why G is a bit miffed as he is someone who spends a lot of time on making highly detailled models. And most people seem to share his viewpoint, since there are no old-school special effects/games made anymore ;)

@[Darth`Vader](members:astralith1:3394472) Uh huh, you cannot even spell my name correctly, you fail at spelling verbs correctly, and you tell me my spelling is bad? That's called hypocrisy.

I once read a story about a pigeon and chess. It goes something like this: No matter how good you are at chess, if you play against a pidgeon, once you win, it'll just start walking over the pieces and claim it's victorious anyway.
That is exactly what is happening here.

You apparently do not have the mind required to have an actual conversation, judging by your first comment, and then this follow up, so I will not waste my time. You managed to misunderstand everything I wrote, and now you're either desperately attempting to sound smart, or you actually believe what you just wrote down is a meaningful comment. Not sure which is worse.

Sometimes you find someone who's actually so stupid you cannot even reason with them, and I overused the word stupid but there's really no other way to put it.
You quoted me, and then did nothing to rebute the quoted statement. Wha....do you not understand how arguments work? Or did you think you could get away with such nonsense without anyone noticing?

Gonna point one thing out, just because it's hilarious. You expanded your initial special effects/star wars fan correlation, to now include:
"If you don't like the effects of the Star Wars ROTJ then are not a Star Wars fan including not liking the story or characters. "
So now if you don't like the special effects, you automatically cannot like any of those things either. If you do not understand how this is mindbogglingly stupid, then there's no sense in explaining. As I said, I wont waste my time.

Please get an education, maybe in 10 years you'll understand why this whole comment chain by you is just...literally, retarded.

Jeroenimo So, do you think my comment is stupid or do you think your just dumb? Because I'm pretty sure your just dumb.

About the comment about the effects of Star Wars, if you watch Star Trek, it's like saying you like everything but the Enterprise. But if you don't like the Enterprise, then what's the point in watching the show? Just like the effect on Star Wars. IT TAKES PLACE IN SPACE. IF DON'T LIKE THE EFFECTS IN SPACE, THEN WHY WATCH IT? WHY EVEN LIKE STAR WARS?

About the story about the pigeon and the chess, just because pigeon walks over the pieces, does necessarily mean the pigeon actually won. And that sounds like one boring book. Almost as boring as this argument.

Anyway, tell me when your done with this argument.

"I didn't like the lightning they put up in the 5th scene, it makes the characters look really unnatural" << You want to tell me now, I don't like SW? Both G and myself have spent a shitton of hours modding for SW. I estimate for myself upwards of a thousand hours, G probably did twice as much; nevermind all the community hours we put in beyond that. What have you done to show your love for SW, except writing snarky comments?

Do you understand how condescending to George Lucas it is when you reduce his masterpieces to the special effects and model quality? Both are subjective. People might love SW for it's story, it's ideas, the ship designs, the fighting scenes, the jedi/sith. They will all love SW equally, but you dare to tell others they don't love SW? How about you do the apology instead of demanding one? SW is much bigger than ROTJ, the movies, even all books together. And certainly bigger than models and special effects. It's completely within artistic freedom to improve quality. Even more so, because the players of SW games will demand it. Is that not SW anymore? Are people supposed to hate ROTJ now, because they like better graphics? Are they supposed to pick either: Like EaW or like the movies? Because by your logic, they can't have both.

PS: I don't like the design of the enterprise. That disc with the engines strapped on looks very ugly. I love the space exploration theme though and therefor like watching Star Trek. Apparently I'm a walking contradiction to you.

Finally someone stopped this ridiculous arguement. Also do you know a release date?