This is a message for Pouk Thread - R.E.A.R.M. - The Unofficial Classic HW 2 Expansion mod for Homeworld 2

hello pouk,

let me start off by saying that your mod is really awesome, you have some great ships in here and that's what i need to ask you about, your probably know about the Complex Mod by Beghins, well he inserted your Vagyr super carrier and he just realized that he doesn't have permission. so now the next release of his mod is kinda at a standstill cause he can't release it with your carrier in it without your permission. I'm not sure exactly what's going on but is there any way he could use it for his mod?, all credit goes to you of course for such a great ship. does he have to wait until you release R.E.A.R.M.?

Aw... crap

...I'll grab Pouks attention.

Wtf aye, those guys need to pull their head in.

apparently there was some sort of miscommunication between Beghins and some of his main supporters that led him to believe they had gotten permission.

I'm sure you are talking about the Hiigaran Supercarrier (they're also keep calling it Super Carrier). There has been a discussion about it, I was willing to exchange it, mostly for the help of Oni who's a Czech guy, very good with textures. I've talked to him (but somehow I didn't reply to his last e-mail). Or for some scripts for example (but I don't really know what scrips). Baroness made the subsystems for my Supercarrier, she tried to even copy the Supercarrier when she realized that it can take much longer than she need, there are all proves that they already had it a long time ago and they took it's presence in Complex for granted no matter what.

...I believe we all know the story.

First of all, are you Warhammer officially asking me in the name of Complex or you are simply informing me about the situation? Because there are different reply to each:
a) I'm kinda dissapointed but definitelly not surprised. Their way of translating my statemens is quite odd, I for example believe that my "I'm willing to share a few ships after the 1.0 release, with my permission." they've translated into "after 1.0 we can take what we want!" -I'm not making this up, I'm sensing such thing in some of the things they've said.
But I'm more grown up now, I'm not that affraid of someone taking my ships anymore, because I know REARM has grown as well. So if they are still willing to do this in a correct way, I'm suggesting to resume the discussion about exchange before it's late and also don't ever do this again in the future, or we're done. I know you said they didn't release it yet, so basically nothing happend yet and actually nothing really changed yet. But what I said is not still out of place.
So if they'll proceed correctly we can all still be friends and there don't have to be any bad blood between us.
If not, they'll take it anyway and they can forget about any future permissions, which will eventually result in more and more cases like that. So I suggest to do it right for the good of both sides.
b) reply to the second meaning: Thank you for the information.

Pouk, I don't know in which way you are in contact with the Complex people, but perhaps you could speak to Beghins directly through Relicnews Forums?
he is still a member there;

Forums.relicnews.com

Just a thought, to "cut out the middle-men" and get directly to the heart of the issue.
(If you're already aware of this then just ignore this)...

It doesn't help the Beghins can be hard to reach... well, that was the way it seemed over on the Complex forums just before I left, anyway; at that time Beghins didn't speak to the folks on the forum much (even private messages), and I got the impression that it was even worse over at RelicNews. But things may have changed since I stopped closely tracking his mod.

I said I'd stay neutral in this, but I will throw this out there for consideration: Complex has some things which you (Pouk) have asked about being possible and/or had an interest in... such as external docking of platforms to a carrying ship, ship experience that effects ship stats (and sometimes effects what you can build on the ship), and they have some automatic repair and automatic attack drones that only operate within a certain distance from from their drone control ship. You could ask Beghins if you could use or modify these features/scripts and/or help in understanding how the features/scripts work in exchange for permission to use the Supercarrier... or perhaps in exchange for help on how to make totally new scripts that do exactly what you had in mind, instead of modifying scripts that weren't designed for what you had in mind.

From what I know Berghins is a ghost who cannot be reached, but I may be wrong.

Worth a try though; I'm uncomfrotable with his lackeys just ripping your stuff, and then blaming 'communication issues'. Not cool.

Pouk,

Beghins has authorized me to speak in behalf of the complex mod, seeing as how he is hard to reach I can easily relay info between both of you,
what Hell_diguner said is ok, Beghins says you may use anything you want from complex just as long as he knows about it, ( and I would imagine he would probably want credit given, bear in mind that some of the ships from complex aren't directly made by Beghins and credit would need to be given to the actual designer if you ever decide to use them, and I could tell you who designed certain ships as well) . we are really sorry about this whole thing, permission should have been fully confirmed before it was implemented and believe me that it won't happen again, I'll make sure of it. We will discuss any and all ships or features we would like in Complex with you. if you have any concerns or questions feel free to ask and we are awaiting your permission and any requirements you may want before we use your carrier.

thank you,
Warhammer 117

P.S. how would i upload a picture for my profile on here?

this is the carrier in question

Moddb.com

Pouk,
I'm getting some conflicting information from different sources, aren't you the one who designed that carrier?

Ok, no problem. I'm going to download the latest Complex and look at some things as the repair drones for example, as Hell_Diguner suggested. To see how does it work in game and what could I use in REARM.

And yes, this Supercarrier is made exclusivelly by me from scratch, except the bridge and engine nozzles, which are taken from the vanilla Hig. Battlecruiser.
The subsystem on the picture you posted is based on my original destroyer production facility (the mesh of original badge is still there, it's basically a modified version of it), it was remodelled by Baroness and textured by Oni.

does this mean we have permission to use your carrier?

sorry if I'm a little hesitant but if we can use it, please plainly state so, cause I've seen too many times people get angry cause something wasn't 100 percent clear and then a fight ensues, and i'm trying to keep everything going smoothly.

You will get the permission for sure, so you can prepare it completelly for Complex (which you are working on already anyway).
But before I'll give you the permission, I'd need to actually play the Complex to see what's there (which only makes sense). You'll get my final permission in a matter of days or in a week.

That's what I wanted to say.

ok, thanks, I'll just check this same thread in a week for the permission.

ok .

so.............hows it going with the carrier thing?

I honestly don't have the time to play Complex (to be absolutelly honest, to learn to play Complex. I don't want to spend the precious half of the day on it, while I could do something useful instead and there is a lot of work I need to do. And I wouldn't enjoy it even if I actually had the time.), so my friends here in the REARM community said that they'll make me some savegames I could use to look at the particullar things in game. It was a week ago and I still didn't get any. Well until today, but it was told to me that those saves are some random old saves, so I think probably not saves with things I need to see.
The waiting for them was quite dissapointing so far, so I'll gonna have to modify the starting fleets, because I don't think I'll ever get the saves I need. But I didn't wanted to do that, because I don't know how to set the mod folder somewhere outside the Data folder and I really didn't wanted to mess with things I have in my own Data.

ok there isnt a big rush or anything.........i think the beta testing for the newest complex ( the one where your carrier war inserted ) isn't until December 7th so there is a good amount of time. there is a lot to be done with complex.................testing.tweaking,bug fixing. rebalancing. ......so a release is still a good ways off.....we'll be in touch.

Warhammer 117

Pouk wrote: ... so my friends here in the REARM community said that they'll make me some savegames I could use to look at the particullar things in game. It was a week ago and I still didn't get any. Well until today, but it was told to me that those saves are some random old saves, so I think probably not saves with things I need to see.
The waiting for them was quite dissapointing so far, so I'll gonna have to modify the starting fleets, because I don't think I'll ever get the saves I need...

So, did you get the saves after all? I have Complex installed, if you like you can tell me what you need and I`ll make a save and give you a link to it. Gotta tell me though which folder the skirmish saves are stored in.

Also, will this mean you can get the script that Complex uses to show the "Complex Help" pop-up in-game?
Mentioned here;
Moddb.com

hello Pouk,

The estimated release date for complex 8 is December 15th, which is only 2 weeks away! ( the release has already been moved numerous times because development is usually not on schedule) I don't mean to be rude or anything but the complex team would like to probably release then and not have to keep waiting for permission( but of course they would wait until you give it). so how is it going with finding something you would be willing to trade your carrier for?

Warhammer117

Someone wrote: they would wait until you give it

Would they? Don't forget they've never convinced me about that, but I'm not going to test it. So...

The problem is that now it's not easy to find a time to look at those scripts. I have a lot of things to do, a lot of them in RL, not much time to look at the scripts in Complex. The problem is that I'm not sure if I'd be able to implement them without any help, I don't know anything about scripting and I generally need them to be prepared for me. And I doubt anyone from Complex would have helped me with the script implementation, from several reasons such as time management, language barrier and a lack of interrest after they'll get what they want... So I have the possibility to take some things, but I haven't seen them yet and I'm not sure how hard it will be and how long it's going to take to implement them, who's help I'm going to need. It's a lot uncertain.
So, would they help me with things I wouldn't manage to get myself after they'll get the permission or not? Beghins don't talk much and the only interrest for other mods amongst the people from Complex is what to take. So who am I kidding, they wouldn't.

Anyway, take the Supercarrier. You have the permission. I know it's not going to be easy to implement the script, but I'm still giving it to you anyway. Then I'll take the scripts I need.

And don't forget this part:
This was the last time I saw my ship in Complex (or in the forum with rebuilt structure, obviously prepared in advance) before I've been asked, otherwise you not gonna ever get any permission from me in the future.

I'm glad we've managed to communicate things a normal way. Good luck with your mod.

Edited by: Pouk

I understand your concern Pouk,

let me start by saying THANKS for the awesome ship!!!

so scripts would be your main interest from complex?
I'll see what I can do about that.

whenever you have what you want just post it somewhere here and I'll find it
R.E.A.R.M. is a mod that I'm looking forward to a release so I check this site quite often.
I don't know much about scripting myself but I'm sure I could find someone to help you
out with the scripts from complex if you ever want to implement some.

haha...it would be pretty cool if Complex and R.E.A.R.M were ever combined into one package
I'm just kinda thinking out loud there.

Warhammer117

Scripts concerning automatic drones for example. And maybe the trick with building from captured megaliths (because as far as I know, this is not as easy as it looks).

Yeah and you know, congrats Complex to the first 100, they've proved to us that Homeworld is not dead yet and I'm glad for that.

hello again Pouk,

Beghins said that he would be willing to help you with scripting some things from complex into your R.E.A.R.M. mod, or at least instruct you on how to do so,
he says you just have to post what you need in the complex forum's. (post it in the development center so Beghins will be sure to get it). but if you don't want to make an account on the complex forum you could always just post here what you need and I would be more than happy to get it for you. but it would probably be more beneficial for you to cut out the middle-man (me)

just whenever you need it feel free to ask....
keep it up the great work with R.E.A.R.M.

Warhammer117