REARM V2 - "Rearmament Expansion And Redesign Mod" is an unofficial Homeworld 2 Remastered expansion focused on a richer and balanced gameplay using new ships designed with care and attention to the style of the original game. REARM V2 is a Remastered successor of the R.E.A.R.M. mod for Homeworld 2 classic.
Vaygr Cruiser model 02
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I like it!
Alright. :)
Im excited to see more. I never got into modding HW2, sadly.
Modding SOASE is also cool.
indeed. One thing I love a bout HW is the movable turrets.
Oh yeah, SOASE could use that, on some ships it's quite noticeable.
I see what you did there... Destroyer and BC hybrid? Looks discussable.
Something about Cruisers:
It's a new BC prerequisity, you have to research this ship to unlock research for Battlecruisers.
Both BCs and Cruisers are now in a unitcap simply called "Cruisers". They share the same slot, but I have to modify that a little so there can be more Cruisers than BCs.
BCs are currently a little bit too powerful, they nulify Destroyers, Frigates, they are worth several times more than what you pay for them, kind of break the game. So Cruisers are there to delay them a little.
The Vaygr one has 190 000 HP, 3347 DPS and 81 speed. So it can almost be beaten by two Destroyers. And if you have two Cruisers, they can beat one Battlecruiser.
It sits nicely in the middle (slightly on the BC side), balancing the game.
The Vaygr and Hiigaran Cruisers are slightly different. The Vaygr one has a hangar, but doesn't have any modules (you can research an innate hyperdrive for them though, a one with no AoE for nearby ships). Hiigaran doesn't have any hangar, but has two module slots. Hiigaran is a bit faster in sublight.
They both have the same DPS, but the Vaygr has 190K health, while the Hiigaran has 180K. The Hiigaran still kills the Vaygr two seconds before the last Vaygr missiles reaches it to finish it, because the Ion cannon is instantaneous, while the missiles have a "lag" between targeting and inflicting damage.
Here is a size comparison:
Media.moddb.com
Personally I'd forgo the flechette kinetic cannons since those were primarily to give the Vaygr destroyer more anti-frigate direct fire and the Vaygr do not actually like dedicated gunships. A more Vaygr-y design might be to give the cruiser two independent fusion missile bays and limited point defence lasers making it more of a long range bombardment vessel that can flagship a destroyer group or provide additional firepower for a battlecruiser group.
The model itself looks nice though :)
This one is meant to be a standard frontline combat ship.
Other Cruisers with different roles are likely to appear eventually, like the long range one you suggest, but first I need a basic unit to fill the class.
Just like you have a standard Destroyer, a standard Battlecruiser and then the variations (like the Artillery Destroyers or the Missile Battlecruiser the old R.E.A.R.M. had), this is the standard unit. The first of its class and the benchmark similar ships would be meassured against.
I still think going with kinetics, especially on a "standard" cruiser for the Vaygr is a mistake. The destroyer is really an exception tot he rule in Vaygr ship design. With this you have two exceptions to that design and it starts to make the Vaygr bleed more into the Hiigarans.
We at Rebirth got a LOT of flak for our early Vaygr Battlecarrier design for this very reason. Most homeworlders seem to prefer their Vaygr missile heavy. The Battlecruiser itself does not have any turrets bar the basic point defence lasers as an example.
Personally I'd like more variety with the Vaygr but don't say I didn't warn you if people complain about this design "not fitting the Vaygr".
Well I think I was one of them, if you're reffering to the Battlecarrier's nose Ion turret. You were defending it as a Taiidan herritage.
It's not that the Vaygr cannot have Kinetic weapons. For them to look right they just have to hug the ship's body really closely. Sort of melt into the ship's general shape.
The Destroyer,
Assault Frigate,
Gun Platform,
even the Vaygr Infiltrator Frigate.
The Vaygr Kinetic turrets are hiding somewhat, while on the Hiigaran ships they are in a plain view in the open right in the middle on an extruded platform. Just take a look at it from that perspective.
You could say that Vaygr rarely have more than 2 turrets. But this Cruiser does only have two and they are incased in and around the middle structure.
While your Battlecarrier had 4 Kinetic turrets sitting on the highest points of the hull and one Ion Turret at the front. It's not something you can compare.
But sure, if a crashing criticism comes my way, I consider myself warned. :) But I think I know my races well enough and can defend my possition.
...and honestly I'll do it my way anyway.
As someone from your team said, "you can't please everyone".
Yes, ours was the Q.E.D of what happens when you try to bring your own creativity into Homeworld and get criticised for it. Normally I'm for breaking the mold but I think you're being a little arrogant about the kinetics. The best comparison we can do is between the battlecruisers, where the Vaygr had no kinetics whatsoever, whilst the Hiigarans had plenty. Kinetics in Vaygr ship design seems to be a last resort or specialist role, as is the case with the assault frigates and gun platforms.
I still think you use of kinetics on this is a break from pureblood Vaygr design. Again though I actually want the races to be more realistic in their use of weapon technologies. It only makes sense to arbitrarily restrict their use in a purely artistic way, not for the sake of gameplay or even "realism". This was what Homeworld 1 did so well in making both Kushan and Taiidan competitive without being total carbon copies in design or specialities.
But yeah the comments we received were very harsh, though the worst were not from you Pouk. I'm just saying don't be surprised if you end up getting the same treatment down the line. Nerds will be nerds.
If I wanted to be subtly arrogant, I'd ask whether this Cruiser is less Vaygr than Vortex is Hiigaran.
But I don't understand how I'm being arrogant. By presuming I do have a grasp on understanding the aesthetics? If so then yes, I do claim that.
I could get what you're trying to say, but that starting possition of yours confuses me. What I don't get is that you had 5 turrets on a Vaygr Capital (primary non-combat) ship, possibly of bigger mass than this Cruiser, and yet you're trying to suggest that 2 on mine are way too much?
You had four kinetic turrets on a ship that was presented as "yet unspecified race", but I'm the one breaking the racial themes?
Is the whole point warning me "not to make the same mistake"?
Also if you do personally prefer more "realism" and breaking of stereotypes, what's is your problem with two perfectly Vaygr turrets on a perfectly Vaygr ship then?
This will be more confusing than anything, since it's just a concept and I personally don't count them as canon (while other modders often do), but what about this then:
Homeworld.wikia.com
That's one damn big official Vaygr Battlecruiser...
OK, this doesn't "look" Vaygr (even though it is). :) But my point is that simply because there isn't a BC with turrets, it doesn't mean there can't be. It's not a problem problem if it feels right.
-There isn't any Battleship, but people make them for their mods. And the funny thing is their problem is completelly the opposite, they're just scaled-up Battlecruisers, they're not different enough! :D
-Hell, people made the Vortex, by these standards you can say anything goes...
But if my Cruiser is going to turn to be "problematic" or offensive for the general public, I'll face the angry mob.
I'm willing to risk it. :)
Anyway back then, if you found my part of criticism of the Battlecarrier insensitive, then sorry.
I have a very thick skin about this myself and I'm used to argue about this stuff. A lot. Especially in my dev group, where I told people not to hold back. BTW there's a guy who doesn't like the turrets either.
Small curiosity:
Do you sculpt or hard model these?