Enderal is a total conversion in development for Skyrim and the sequel to Nehrim: At Fate's Edge by SureAI. The story of Enderal is not set in the Elder Scrolls world of Tamriel, but takes place in its own universe, creating a new, interesting world completely unrelated to Skyrim with a complex, dark storyline and thousands of secrets to discover.

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yavuztezcan
yavuztezcan - - 709 comments

if only i could find a mod pack for dumbs....

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cghopk
cghopk - - 349 comments

Are there going to be firearms in this mod?

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

This is good idea since Star people (Dwarves) existed in Nehrim.

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Caleb8980 Author
Caleb8980 - - 64 comments

No as the Skyrim egine is hard pressed with with firearms, the canons are there to mark the place of a great fight in the past between Thalgard and the Order ;-)

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

Can't you just mod crossbow to work like gun?

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Caleb8980 Author
Caleb8980 - - 64 comments

Enderal doesn't use any DLC, hence no crossbow (though SureAI went as far as animating waves, because without Dragonborn, there were none of those ;-))

Also the crossbow would be a bad starting point, as the loaded projectiles are essentially arrows and move closely like arrows shot from bows (both are flying in a parabola, the arrow has just a higher speed if shot from the crossbow, hence it gives the illusion of shooting straight ;-)).
Bullets fly completely different and if you would want to do it at least semirealistic the bulletspread would have to be enormous and random. This would need complicated scripts for calculating the trajectory and then letting the bullet fly exactly that path.

Can you imagine the nightmare such a weapon would pose if you try to limit the amount of scripts so that Enderal runs smooth without CTDs and doesn't become another Nehrim on the performance side? ^^

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

1. Would "borrowing" a crossbow from a DLC be illegal?
2. Bullets do fly like arrow, but with much higher speed
3. Can't you use simmilar method as used in Fallouts for accuracy?
4. If not, just make aiming with gun harder than with bow.

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Caleb8980 Author
Caleb8980 - - 64 comments

1. yep it would be - you would put sth you need to pay for for free into the public - that is always illegal

2. bullets habe a much greater spin and way less weight than arrows have, hence their trajectory is affected mostly by the coriolis effect rather than by gravity - a bullet rather starts spinning in a circle with the radius of 0,5 m than dropping to the ground due to gravity ;-)

3. Luck based shooting systems (short accuracy ;-)) like e. g. in Risen 2+3 or Fallout are always a pain in the *** - they are the easy way out and do in no way reward player skill
Also you would have the problem of having 2 shooting systems in the game at the same time - once animated arrows for bows and once possibility-based calculation of bullet hits --> your engine will not thank you for that.

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

2. You're right, but still firearms we're talking aren't from modern age, but more from where they used to be load separately and shoot spherical metal bullets, where we can ignore those effects (or you want to implement modern sniper rifles into fantasy).
3.So then as i said point 4. would be good alternative.

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Caleb8980 Author
Caleb8980 - - 64 comments

The history of firearms as you described started in modern age only ;-)
In the first half of the 15th century to be precise, which is also when the modern age began. The arquebus was among the first weapons with a trigger.
And for those we have exactly the problem I pointed out in my second post here - it took until the beginning of the 16th century until you had the rifled barrel. Adding to that you have as you said casted metal bullets which were in no way or form even.
Hence the bulletspread wasn't just huge but also completely random. Firefights of that time were won by the pure number of soldiers shooting, not because of an precise aim.
Hence making it even semirealistic would need you randomnize the bullet path in each shot, effectivly making it an useless weapon the game unless standing right in front of the enemy and then you could also just hit him with your sword ^^

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

Those guns should be inaccurate af ,and it should be used at short ranges out of sword reach, but deal high damage at cost of slow reload,inaccuracy and low range.
I understand that randomisation makes game less rewarding for player skill, but knowing when risk at certain situation is also skill.
Also there's a lot of old games that randomise weapon spread and have no issues with performance, and mod team would use same mechanics to all ranged weapons, but bow would have set 0 spread radius.

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Caleb8980 Author
Caleb8980 - - 64 comments

You really like firearms, don't you? :P

"Also there's a lot of old games that randomise weapon spread and have no issues with performance, and mod team would use same mechanics to all ranged weapons, but bow would have set 0 spread radius. "

Now you miss the point - it is just that Skyrim's creation engine cannot support firearms as easy as you make it out to be.
Such old games had engines which allowed for that from the beginning - Skyrim's does not and without the source code changing the engine is only possible with scripts which massively lower performance - just as an example: if you could play Skyrim at lowest settings with just 30 fps, you will have 15 or even less in Enderal with the same settings.

In general you will have to turn back your graphic option one magnetude if you wanna play it fluidly.

That is just how demanding Enderal is for Skyrim's engine, which is nothing other than a heavily modified Gamebryo engine Bethesda uses since Morrowind...(Fallout 4 btw uses the same engine, modified so that it supports firearms - as they have the source code and more than 50 developers such a thing is possible)

Now add a big amount of scripts for firearms and your game will start to give out CTDs left and right - the disadvantages completely outweight the rather small benefit of a new class of weapons.

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

So accuracy mechanism from Fallout 3 isn't in Skyrim's code? that's sad.
I'm just proposing firearms as it would be a good gameplay addon and it gives more choice for player in playstyle.

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Caleb8980 Author
Caleb8980 - - 64 comments

Well yeah it isn't in there, that would be code trash as it isn't used in Skyrim and such should be avoided as much as possible as it can affect the stability and performance of the game ;-)

" I'm just proposing firearms as it would be a good gameplay addon and it gives more choice for player in playstyle. "

Yeah I know and I think similar but even if it would be possible - balancing it would take time - much of it - and I don't think that would be the kind of thing one should put much time into when seeing all the work left still ;-)

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Tesel
Tesel - - 740 comments

Then it might be an idea for expansion/mod for Enderal, it doesn't have to be released with mod at once ;)

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Guest
Guest - - 689,667 comments

Dude Firearms and time period of Enderal (even Nehrim) really don't match up either. Go play C.O.D or something. Its simply not going to happen nor do I think sure AI will make it happen, they have enough to do. I hate being the jump in the end kind of person and I am no trying to be rude or abrupt but looking at the line of comments on here. I'm surprised Caleb8980 hasn't pulled his hair out.

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drakeravenwood2014
drakeravenwood2014 - - 61 comments

Ha was so thinking the same. Not gonna happen. teslaptak maybe wait for a Mod for Fallout 4 by sureai for this.

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