Bugs, Balance, and Thoughts (1.1) Thread - Decent Freespace Into Chaos mod for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion

Didn't see much feedback on the latest release, so decided to do a bit of analysis of it. I realize this is only the second release, so much is still a WIP.

Non-Combat Vessels

GTGs Titan R

Not much to say, fairly standard scout. However, mine detection being passive means AI doesn't know how to use it.

GTA Charybdis

Seems to copy a lot from the TEC Cielo Command Cruiser. I assume it will be given other abilities later (maybe jamming, range extension, or other AWACS stuff). However, mediocre speed, "Light" armor, and low health means it dies fairly often.

GTT Argo

Worth its weight in gold. As the only mobile means of repairing ships in your fleet, I always keep some around. Of course, light armor means it can't take much fire. Used in FS2 to capture sometimes, so might give it some capturing abilities.

GTFr Triton

Not much to say here, it's a constructor. Not expected to do much.

GTSC Faustus

A standard, if fairly squishy and cheap, envoy. Sadly, currently doesn't do anything.

GTM Hippocrates

Just a colonizer, but with a little bit of a punch. All weapons are "AntiLight" at best, so don't expect it to contribute much in actual battle.

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Cruisers

Things get complicated here. Armor Types and Attack Types fling a bit of confusion into the mix. There also seems to be discrepancies in the beam damage and the conversion.

GTC Fenris

Cheap as a vanilla sins light frigate, but with half the health. Firepower is a bit deceiving, pulse weapons are "AntiLight" and spread out at 6/0/9/9. Missile launcher (Fusion Mortar) does 6 "Composite" damage, giving some bit to the ship. All Freespace combat ships currently have "Medium" armor or better, so best to use this cruiser against non-combat ships, or vanilla siege ships.

GTFg Jupiter

As one of the new ships to the mod, it is in a bit of an odd spot. I assume armament will be changed, as it is the only user of gauss / auto-cannon weapons. Low health the only light carrier with weapons. Downside is the lack of a real bomber. GTB Athena only carries anti-light and anti-very light missiles.

GTC Fenris MK2

The upgrade to the Fenris, it costs more than the Fenris or other long range frigates, but has a little AA and has a shiny new large beam. The beam is "AntiLight", limiting the usefulness, but still better than the pulse weapon it replaced.

GTC Leviathan

Doubling as a siege frigate, the leviathan is the big brother of the Fenris. It offers "VeryHeavyArmor" and triple the health of the Fenris, while still having the same armament. However, it is slower than other warships and twice the price of its little brother. If you can afford the lack of speed and higher price, bring these instead of the Fenris, as they are a better investment.

GTC Leviathan MK2

The beam refit of the Leviathan. It costs 10 slots to the original's 5 and a sharp increase to the metal costs (100 -> 500). For the price it gets a nifty "Anti-heavy" beam that does 198 damage a shot. However, at a 45 second cool down, it is less useful than it seems. The high cost and still low speed make it difficult choice to use.

GTC Aeolus

The anti-fighter ship of both Freespace and this mod. At 15 slots a ship, it is expensive for a anti-strike craft ship, but boasts twice the hull and better firepower (some anti-heavy pulse / beam, too!). Arguably a better choice than a Leviathan and a great escort for a battle group.

GTCv Deimos

The heavy and expensive hitter of the non-capital ships. At 2,500 creds, 500 metal, 250 crystal, and 25 slots, it is way more expensive than vanilla heavy cruisers. For that price, you get a "VeryHeavy" armor ship with 3,200 hull (3 times that of other heavy cruisers) and bristling with guns. It is well-rounded, having weapons good against various types. However, the main beams are still only "AntiHeavy," heavily reducing damage against cap ships and "VeryHeavyArmor" ships. On the other hand, they still do a lot of damage, even reduced.

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Capital Ships

Capital Ship abilities are placeholders, other than the Ursa Bombers one of the Orion. Cap ships have more health, but less shields than vanilla Sins factions.

GTD Orion

The first capital ship, before the advent of beam weapons. Majority of firepower is Capital Ship tier, with a little "AntiLight," making it a pretty formidable foe in the FS1 era of ships. The Scramble Ursas ability gives it some punch later in the game, but the Orion simply can not compete with the firepower of the Hecate and Orion MK2. I suppose you could give it a research item to unlock "prototype" beams, or a Meson bomb or such. Strike craft include the GTF Apollo and GTF Ulysses for anti-fighter support, and the GTB Medusa for "Antiheavy" firepower.

GTD Orion MK2

The FS2 refit of the Orion and the heaviest hitter of the Terran capital ships. It can fire powerful Cap ship-grade beams in 3 directions, with enough firepower to demolish most smaller ships in a single beam shot, as well as faster firing "AntiModule" beams. However, it lacks any serious anti-strike fighter weaponry (but somehow found Flak). For fighters, it has the Myrmidon, Herc II, and the Perseus. The GTB Artemis serves in the bomber role.

GTD Hecate

The carrier to the Orion's battleship, it lacks the anti-warship firepower of the Orion. Instead, it carries far more anti-strike craft weaponry and more strike craft. The forward guns are as fierce as the Orion's, but the beams covering the sides and rear do only a fraction of the damage and are only "AntiHeavy." Strike craft selection is actually the same as the Orion MK2.

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Titans

Titans are different than other ships in the mod. The regular conversion formula from FS2 to Sins isn't used. Hull values are drastically lower and main weapons are more powerful. Abilities are placeholders from standard Sins (Hades = Ragnarov / Colossus = Ankylon). Due to the titan armor, most Freespace ships do half damage. Only titans, capital ships, the Ursa bombers, and Boanerges bombers do the full amount of damage.

NTD Hades

The Hades' main weapons seem to be the Shivan Super Lasers and some TerSlash that it found somewhere. Both have around the same refire rate, giving it better firepower than even the Orion MK2. It lacks AA, so only strike craft tend to swarm it. Expect higher level Hecates and Orions to give it a good fight.

GTVA Colossus

The Colossus is a monster of a titan. Both broadsides put out more firepower than the Hades's forward arc and more than double that of an Orion. With AA beams and flak to back up the crazy anti-warship firepower, it has no equal in the current mod. The abilities of the Ankylon make it even scarier, adding decreased cool downs, self-heals, more damage per shot.

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Fighters

There are a total 11 kinds of fighter in this mod, but there are no descriptions to indicate the differences between ships or even their armaments. Damage conversion seems to indicate they only fire one missile at a time (no dual fire). Overall, all the fighters do a combination of "AntiVeryLight" (guns and missiles) and "AntiLight" (missiles). This means that even the heavy assault fighters only do half damage or less against Freespace warships.

In general, they suffer from much less survivability than Freespace. This is due to lack of shields (which would lag Sins), vastly larger fleets with more AA, and a hullPointRestoreRate of .5.

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Bombers

Similar to fighters, all missiles and bombs are fired single. In general, they are much less dangerous than their Freespace origins. While they suffer from the same survivability problems of fighters, bombers also tend to less damage than expected. This is partially helped by health having a .04 modifier and weapons having a ~.137 modifier when converted.

GTB Artemis

The standard bomber for the FS2 era ships. Tied for the slowest bomber, it carries Cyclops. However, the bombs are only "AntiHeavy." Therefore, it does less half damage against Leviathans, Deimos', and cap ships.

GTB Athena

The Athena has suffered in the transition between games. The light bomber is incredibly fast, faster than most most fighters, but has weapons best suited for fighting other strike craft. It does very little damage against warships, and Sins doesn't really allow for bombers that target subsystems. In general, if you want a bomber in 1.1, it is best to avoid the poor Athena.

GTB Boanerges

The heaviest bomber of the FS2 era, it's as slow as the Artemis. It carries Helios bombs as well as a swarm missiles (Tornadoes?), giving it better firepower than the Ursa, but with less hull and speed. The bombs are even AttackType "TITAN", making the Boanerges one of the best bombers in the mod.

GTB Medusa

The most common bomber of the FS1 era, the mod has it on Arcadias, Orions, and Hangars. It carries Tsunamis, Hornets, and anti-fighter missiles (MX-50?). Despite the Artemis replacing it on FS2 ships, it is largely the better ship. It boasts better max speed, better armor, the same health, and more weapons. Note that the Tsunamis only do "AntiHeavy" damage.

GTB Ursa

The heavy bomber of FS1, and the only one that can equip Harbinger bomb. Besides the Harbinger, it brings Hornets and an anti-fighter missiles. The Harbinger is does "Titan" damage, making the Ursa the best bomber for its era.

GTB Zeus

Supposedly the replacement for the Athena, the Zeus is possibly the worst bomber in the mod. The "light" bomber has only 40 hull, making it the most fragile strike craft in the mod. It is outrun by all but the slowest bombers and has no anti-warship firepower.

Note that the Zeus and Loki were the first attempts at stealth craft, so perhaps that could be worked in somehow. In FS1 and FS2, it could also carry Tsunamis and Cyclops (only small loads).

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Thank you for reading the long post. Think I will do any non-ship analysis stuff in another thread, as this one turned out way longer than expected.

Edited by: Saraelia

I find the analysis fair. Converting between the two games makes it difficult. When I first start the mod and went with a direct conversation, FreeSpace annihilated anything the SINS universe could bring. A single Medusa wing would decimate a titan in a single pass. Abilities will be tailored to what the FreeSpace ship could do. If you look at the previous version of this mod you'll notice several different abilities I will be attempting to transfer over to this version. The rebuild was needed due to the changes with the Minor Faction and the races. As for the titans, if I used the same conversions for them as the other ships they would be stock with 80k health and be boasting insane damage numbers. So for playability I had to create a different conversion for them. If you would like to help with correcting bugs or have any ideas let me know.