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Add media Report RSS Frank Luntz - Holocaust Poll (view original)
Frank Luntz - Holocaust Poll
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"Here, we see a Truth Seeker specimen. A natural enemy of the Ignorance Mongers, their actions often uncover affairs the Ignorance Mongers would rather keep hidden. It's a fierce battle."

Works best if read as a nature documentary narrator.

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apparently it's fine killing a million, but it becomes a disaster when killing 5 million?

Killing is killing, regardless of numbers and justifications.

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Mike Pence Author
Mike Pence

The real disaster is the forgotten.

Between the U.S. atomic weapons and firebombings over 1 million Japanese civilians were killed between March and August of 1945.

As well as the over 20 million Germans left homeless and families ravaged/killed by the western strategic bombing campaign.

There were more than enough "disasters" and war crimes, but not by the axis side in this situation... Of course, no one's going to talk about that. No matter how painful, how honest, and how on point it may be just to how hypocritical the victors really were. We killed and displaced millions, both the United States and United Kingdom. Germany never even contemplated leaving such destruction. And yet, the allies worked to "preserve" the capitals and major cities of their allies during the war. Yet bring utter ruin to the axis.

The victors write history books, not facts.


"The destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised community life throughout Germany [is the goal]. ... It should be emphasised that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives; the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale; and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories." -- "Air Marshal Arthur Harris to Sir Arthur Street, Under Secretary of State, Air Ministry, October 25, 1943"

"I do not myself believe that the Germans will use gas on the beaches [of Normandy], although this is the most potent way in which gas could be used. The reason is that we could retaliate tenfold or more through the greater power of our air forces to deliver upon their cities. ... It is however worth while considering whether a warning should not be uttered by me and the President such as those we have previously given about the Russians repeating our assurance that we have no intention of using gas but also giving warning that if any form of gas or toxic substances is used upon us or any of our Allies, we shall immediately use the full delivery power of our Strategic Air Forces to drench the German cities and towns where any war industry exists." -- Prime Minister Winston Churchill to Major General Hastings Ismay, May 21, 1944, quoted in Martin Gilbert, Winston S. Churchill, Vol. VII: Road to Victory: 1941-1945 (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co., 1986), p. 777.


MacArthur biographer William Manchester has described MacArthur's reaction to the issuance by the Allies of the Potsdam Proclamation to Japan: "...the Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face 'prompt and utter destruction.' MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General's advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary."

William Manchester, American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur 1880-1964, pg. 512.

Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."

Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.

Really gets those neurons flowing on who the real monsters are. To claim moral superiority, and then this...

The Germans bombed London without nearly as much destruction and effort as the allies ever did during the entire war. There was not once a concentrated effort on destroying every major city in Great Britain. They didn't resort to chemical, nor nuclear weapons. Nor did the Japanese and Italians.

And yet, here we have allied commanders given the go ahead for the use of chemical weapons, terrorizing of civilians, mass casualty events against those who can't protect themselves, and outright ignoring of all reason to proper diplomatic channels to avoid further bloodshed.

Where was justice for this?

Reply Good karma+6 votes

Exactly spot on. Killing is killing, regardless of who, how, or how much.
The Allies were not the glorious heroes who liberated the world. They killed just as much as the axis did.
The problem with people is that they try to show once side on the expanse of the other. The Germans weren't less destructive. The Allied weren't less cruel.

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The numbers matter little, it's the politicization of a victim complex that was adopted afterward and the level of racial/religious hatred that is taught (and has been taught for centuries) in the upper echelons of Orthodox Jewry that is most harmful. Coincidentally, the danger posed by this is exactly the same as any other foreign culture, although with an unconventional mode of execution, relying rather on usury and manipulation of established systems than outright political, religious, or racial violence.

Israelis accept the fact that Islam poses their state a threat (without getting into the legitimacy of their state), and they take policies that reflect this. Similarly, should we not be allowed take steps to protect our culture and our way of life from foreign and dangerous belief systems?

If Jewish values are incongruent with Western values then they should be treated with the same skepticism and careful deliberation other hostile or foreign cultures are (were, should be, aren't).

This is not antisemitism, this realistically understanding the fundamentals of culture and civilizations as a whole.

EDIT: Of course, the numbers matter in the sense that when cases of "antisemitism" whether real or perceived arise, bringing up the 6 million tends to better support the argument that they have been targeted for extermination in the past...

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Mike Pence Author
Mike Pence

Agreed, but try saying that in front of GOP Congressmen and you'll be in for the loudest boe of the century.

That said, one of the main reasons for this unnatural link between the USA and Israel is due to a corruption of the Church in the United States, the Christian Church. It's part of why the West is so obsessed with protecting that Jewish state in the mideast despite how it's methods of self preservation contradict western values.

They consider the Israelis God's people, that those who protect the secular state of Israel will be blessed and those who don't be cursed.

In reality, the actual children of Israel are anyone and everyone who accepts Christ Jesus. Israel means "Triumphant with God" in Hebrew, and that applies to everyone who accepts God's promises. The Apostle Paul goes through this subject amply in Romans chapter 11 between the natural and wild branches.

The Jews reject Christ Jesus and deny the authority of the New Testament choosing instead to stick to classic Judaic law and rules from the Old. They're no longer part of the Covenant, yet now we have heretics in the Church world leading astray the masses into the neoconservative mindset seen in the GOP today. Literally idolizing these unbelievers and taking in their teachings among our Churches. Despite the inherit vehemence they have towards the actual gospel of Christ.

The purpose of the Church has always been to evangelize and increase the borders of God's kingdom in the spiritual. It is not a secular state, nor is it a ethnic heritage. It's a spiritual inheritance for the willing. So anyone, be they jew or gentile, greek or roman, black or white, male of female can take part in God's Kingdom.

Given the other issues of moral corruption in the United States, the Churches here have failed in more than that area, obviously. False teaching destroys nations.

Reply Good karma+4 votes

But they are still God's people whether or not they believed Him when He robed Himself in flesh. And in Revelations the USA is the only nation that will stand by them to the end. So we have to stick with them. Revelations says we will. It's already been written. And it also says that in the end the Jews will finally admit that Jesus was the one true God all along. It's only a matter of time.

But I do agree that the churches in general are not going by the Word accordingly. They've changed things up to suit their needs. If it's not Apostolic then it's probably trash.

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Well... that escalated quickly.

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