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Irony and the Left
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Rioting, looting, and beating the crap out of people who disagree with you isn't love and kindness but then again the far left in the United States has been under a form of severe mental illness for over a decade.
Any thoughts feel free to share. The right wasn't nearly this childish when Obama was elected, we were reserved but adamant.
More ammo, social media is indeed on fire:
I.4cdn.org
I.4cdn.org
To be fair, many of the demographic that voted Trump were previously voters for Obama.
If the people of the US are to secure a non-dystopian future for themselves (with the extraordinary opportunity they now have) there has to be a conscious divorce of the political narrative. Whether Democrat or Republican (Left or Right in common terms), the undying subscription to either ideology has become incredibly toxic for societal and political progress due to the immense divide that exists from both position's extreme polarity. There has to be a restoration of nationalism and patriotism for all people across the nation, united in a belief of the country, not the government and its war machine.
Detach from emotional, identity-fueled politics, examine the facts from independent and verifiable sources, and kill your bias (as much as possible).
Anyway, I am not the best on American domestic issues, but what I do know is that November 8th (or 9th for me) was a historic turning point in international politics. I personally hope that humanity as a whole will benefit greatly from the outcome of the election...
I am reading just now that Obama has given clearance for strikes on a terror group previously ignored in Syria (due I imagine to the pressure they were exerting on Syrian forces). Dawn of a new era perhaps...
We've been dealing with Neocons and social justice warriors for so long, this presidency stands to give us the breathing room we need to counter both identity politics and neocon policies. There's a alt right movement in the country that played a large role in the social media support and counter narrative to get Trump elected, I know because I was part of it. We've been disgusted with the Syria conflict, globalist intentions being pushed in our country, and the general anti-American sentiment being pushed by the far left against our traditions and values. They revile against Patriotism and stand to denigrate everything we stood for culturally. We also fessed up over our foreign policy decisions, that situation with the Philippines for example. Telling other countries how to run themselves, isn't how allies work.
We were a counter revolution to their filth, those we couldn't win in hearts and minds, we made doubt their candidate till Trump stood a actual chance at the landside he won in the electorate. The amount of times Hillary was denigrated, emails released showing her true colors, her corruption exposed. Their will was ruined. We rubbed these things in every chance we got to ensure she lost the election.
It's expected for Trump to have a fresh set of talks with Assad in Syria when this is over. I expect they'll see pretty well eye to eye. Overall the grass roots movement here in the U.S. will be praying for the new president and future of the country.
Right now our greatest concern is what to do with a totally Republican government. Most of the Governors in our states are Republican, the Congress is Republican, the Senate Republican, even the White House Republican. We're worried about the people who went along with the neocon policies and sold out our country before in their ranks. If Trump can put up with their crap, and he turn a ear to the people who are actually talking sense. This stands to be a presidency worth remembering.
If Trump needs lessons on how to battle the establishment he need look no further than Uncle Vova.
I'm interested to see how Trump and Putin will get along.
Trump won because of how **** America's electoral system is. If it wasn't first past the post and didn't have electoral colleges he wouldn't have won. So while I don't agree with riots, republicans are usually antiscience so I cannot support them.
TLDR: Youtube.com
Uh huh, and here's the positives they don't tell you about.
Media.moddb.com
Sciencebuzz.org
Elf, Trump is the best chance America has right now. Hillary is a corrupt wicked witch of the west who's spent 40 years selling the soul of our country. She lost, good riddance. That woman would've dragged us too certain war with Russia, while with Trump?
Rt.com
Independent.co.uk
It seems the Kremlin is actually quite happy for this result, and for good reason. Trump doesn't demonize the Russians. That's a cold war mindset and it needs to roll over and die along with the policies of people like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
Also, I'll add that Hillary didn't win in a landside with the popular vote, she only got 300,000 people more than Trump out of tens of millions. Trump got 47%, her 48%. Rest to other party candidates. California is the main reason she got that likely due to illegal voters swelling in that state and election fraud.
Which means Trump would've won there as well.
He already overwhelmingly won the electorate, you know despite a media lambasting him and calling him racist even though over the 30 years he's been in the public eye he'd never been called racist once till he decided to run against the Democrats. I still can't believe they made mountains out of molehills over him talking lockeroom stuff damn near every man has done at some point, FROM OVER 10 YEARS AGO!
Oh' I'm a sexist for being attracted to women and saying pussy. WELL GEE, wouldn't my dead Grandfather of the 82nd, God Bless his soul be proud of this generation.
Voter fraud is illegal while voter suppression is politics. I hypothesis that if more states had early voting, more poor people would have voted making it more difficult for a republican to win. Of course this is purely theoretical and the US political system has far more issues than just electoral colleges or a single day of voting.
Democrats aren't the only early voters.
Dead people "casting" ballots along with rigged voting machines have been reported, just as well legislation has been talked about for making it lawful for illegal immigrants, people who didn't even come into the United States LEGALLY, to be eligible to vote.
The problem with people (and trust me, we have crazies of all stripes these days) is the production of decades of policies, both from government & society. Generations of people grew up being shielded from the hurtful reality by their parents, by society, and by the government. Generations grew up expecting to be rewarded just for being alive, and expecting society & the government to shield them from reality.
Well that kind of BS tend to not work outside of the education system, and yes I am suggesting the entirety of the education system to be overhauled and to stop overcuddling the younglings. Also parents need to either start pay more attention to their spawn or stop raising kids before they're ready (look I understand unplanned pregnancies happens, but giving up for adaption exists and there are a lot of great potential parents out there will to do a great job, so it's better for everyone that way).
All that aside, we're highly unlikely to see any changes in the near future, because reality is far less dire than we presume (blame the media for fanning the flames of doom)
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@✯Joshua✯ good to see someone using one of the debate groups like they're supposed to be used. Kudos to you good sir.
I think, that with the culture war this presidency is going to bring out against the left. We're going to see talk of secession, and I mean serious talk. California is already speaking of it and hoping for a vote by 2018. So to a degree I believe you're right.
I'll be perfectly honest, I'd rather lose a limb than the entire country. California is one of the most liberal havens here, and I'm not talking classical liberalism I'm talking the stuff that's been making all of us cringe for years having to put up with. Stuff that's been shoved down the throat of the courts and populace as their new norm. Stuff that's been poisoning the mindset and values of those in our government and populace.
They go, the more traditional side of the country will finally be the dominant power again for better or for worse. I'm gonna miss California if they do go as I lived there for the first 18 years of my life, but seeing what they've become. Painful as it is I gotta let it go.
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@Kalga thanks.
Oh don't worry, secession won't happen as it isn't allowed. The constitution doesn't support it and it should've been set in stone after the civil war. Once you're a state in the "Union of States" it's a one way ticket. The idea can be played with but won't be taken seriously. Hell, in 2012, Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, and three more that I can't remember now, threatened the same thing when Obama was elected and it hasn't gotten anywhere.
There's been soo much energy around this election, I'll tell you don't underestimate people's resolve. If the left really is passionate to escape, they will let us know loud and clear. That is afterall their specialty.
It isn't the liberals fault nor the conservatives fault (both get their share) it's our fault. We the American people have become so desperate for change that we've picked the wrong person for the job. We've gotten tired of the powers that be consistently ignore the public. Those that have felt downtrodden and neglected by the so called "establishment" just want to pick up a proverbial brick and toss it through the window of those elite elitists. Trump became that brick when the other better choice, from the democrats nomination committee, wasn't nominated for the candidacy. Though I'll say that brick is irradiated and will feel its effects later. I didn't like either candidate but I don't like Trump even more because I saw his policies as not only unrealistic but insane and quite a few of them to be unconstitutional. In my belief, we wouldn't be moving forward with Hillary but we sure as hell wouldn't be moving backward. Both parties throwing mud at each other and down right disrespect for the Average Joe sure as hell didn't help none. In my view, it's the people who've lost, one and all. And we're going to see an America we may not like.
murauder, Obama has already been playing with the Constitution like piece of paper rather than set in stone. With Trump, our second amendment is in stone. What you need to worry about is first amendment rights, but lets be frank. Are there any actual people contributing anything to the country right now in the mass media that's beneficial?
You think about that for a moment, these are the same jackasses that have been glorifying the United Nations, demonizing Assad, the Philippines, the Brexit, and leading us to war with Russia. Same people who've been pushing this queer mentality and embracing of things found deplorable in the rest of the world that actually has a modicum of self respect left. Perhaps they do need a kick in the ***, even if it is interpreted as infringement. There are ways to do this without actually violating the Constitution. All it requires is a poker face and class in economics.
I don't see Trump as the wrong person here, I see him as someone who has the chance of reversing some rather wrong decisions we've made the last few years that have taken us farther, not closer to a brighter future. Obamacare as a good example which is a mess. The path Obama and Hillary wanted us to go down wasn't progress in the least murauder, it would take us the way of Europe under the EU. If you consider that progress then you and me have a very different thought process here. I don't consider the modern liberal movement as promoting anything worthy.
Now, would you like to get into detail of what you find "insane"?
I think you brought up a good point in your third paragraph, towards the end- that people have very different thought processes here.
This might sound like I'm stating the obvious, but I think the fundamental differences underlying the election are just that people have different priorities and ideals. Some people prefer nationalism, others globalism, some social liberalism vs. conservatism, the EU's approach, the US's approach, etc. I don't think it's stuff that can be purely explained by ad-hominem (i.e. "it's because millennials/Americans/conservatives/liberals are ignorant and stupid!"). I'd be interested in a discussion on the fundamental ideals and beliefs people have that shaped how they view the election.
Thanks for making a post by the way! I liked your Brexit post more since I think it encouraged more discussion/learning by being more neutral, but I thank you for posting one way or the other.
Yes we do, that's what has shaped these parties and votes.
I was stuck between Gary and Trump this election, but I ended up going with Trump because I realized at this point Gary couldn't win thanks to the media pushing him out, and that this country needs to balance back to the conservative views we used to hold with higher standing. A president who is to the right can do that with the proper support. As we've gone way too far left in these last years to the point in threatens permanent fundamental change to the country.
Trump is also a outsider candidate, so he'll do things very differently from previous leaders. Looking forward to that being harnessed in a more positive manner especially in foreign policy and international relations.
Welcome.
I was hoping for one of the candidates would offer a large increase in science funding or space exploration, though sadly neither seemed terribly excited about science. In the end, while I don't identify with either American party, I'm a fan of social democracy so I voted for Clinton. Have to say I'm not happy that Trump won since I disagree with him on most things (immigration, trade policy, taxation, etc.), though I hope the next four years go well.
To be honest, America's infrastructure and jobs have been falling apart. I look forward to Trump investing well in rebuilding that. He's also said to be a strong supporter of rebuilding the military (but lets be honest what registered Republican hasn't?). Half of the air force is literally without pilots and spare parts to operate right now. It's embarrassing, so if he's responsible with the budget that can be fixed.
In any case, will see in the next 4 years what this results in.
I'm always a fan of infrastructure spending, no downsides to that certainly. I have mixed feelings about increased military spending, though my family is military so it can't hurt! I suppose my main concern is our connection to foreign markets and diplomatic ties to other countries' governments; Trump's executive power pertains chiefly to foreign policy and he seems a bit of a wild card, so it makes things feel uncertain. I'm also half-American/half-German, so ties to the European Union cause special worry. Though right now things pretty reasonable in transatlantic relations so concerns may be unfounded.
Well, he didn't support Iraq, and he's been critical of Obama's handling of Syria. So I suspect there won't be any invasions if that's what you're worried about.
Now as pertaining to the EU, I expect him to support countries looking to seek independence from it like with the Brexit. Him and Nigel Farage get along pretty well on stuff like this. Germany's Angela Merkel will probably be left as the chief lead in EU affairs without the U.S. president to back her.
China I expect him to toughen up on in the Pacific at least economically as he believes we're being robbed by them. The territorial arguments of those waters is something to wonder about. Hopefully there can be a compromise.
Both sides believe, to a fault, that they are right and the other party is wrong so much, that they will disregard any facts on the matter. I have tried, so hard to introduce facts to any debate in regard to this election I've had, that I'm hesitant to join this one.
I will comment on one thing though; As much as you think Trump is a change for the better Joshua, you can't "Make America Great Again" without making amends with the liberals you despise so much. Or are you counting on the Republican control in the Senate and Congress to force these "good" changes. Is that your new American Dream?
In order to make an amends, something is required. That requirement is them ditching the political correctness we've known for the last 8 years. Because that in of itself, has lead to insane policy decisions. And hasn't done the country any good socially. All you have to do is scroll the news and check out the latest riot over their claims a democratic election was fascist because a racist/misogynist got elected cause "prejudiced" country.
We can't have a stable union with that kind of mindset.
I honestly feel like Micheal Ironside when I say this...
They want us to meet them halfway, that's what they gotta drop.
The expectation I'll have is in 4 years they'll be more reasonable.
"They want us to meet them halfway, that's what they gotta drop."
All that says is that they are willing to compromise, and you are not.
Headhunter, have you ever tried compromising with someone who's done nothing but throw insults, labels, and riot when they don't get their way or the highway?
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about right now and it shows, not that I'm surprised given you don't even live here.
The left has become feral these last years.
This has even been publicly admitted by their own.
On top of that, I'll add.
When your political opposite, instead of engaging you on a head to head level in discussion. Resorts to automatically calling your views homophobic, racist, sexist, and fascist. Then using the media to back them in a massive shitstorm so you lose credibility. That does tend to create a rather toxic environment, doesn't it?
That's what I'm talking about when I say "feral".
You try negotiating under those circumstances, you'll learn quickly the only way to really get anywhere with them is for them to be humbled first.
I don't just make this stuff up headhunter and I'm sorry for being testy. But you're understating just how bad things are in the current climate.
Ive dealt with liberals who actually get into intimate discussion on these subjects to the point we go on for hours back and forth with our points and grievances. But there are those out there like what I described earlier who really are that toxic to us and anyone who disagrees with them, and unfortunately those are the ones who all too often voice the media and get their attention. Some even making office.
You want talks to take place, kick those bastards out and put actual people in like the ones who would go on with me for hours over their points. Those are the people I wanna talk to and compromise with, not petulant children.
That's what I meant when I said drop political correctness. Get rid of the people who are only gonna complain and call us names when they see something they don't like rather than actually engage in civil discussion to bother understand our views and try to work out a middle ground to correlate on.
I think its fair to say that a candidate who claims to advocate for the banning of all Muslims, the deportation of all illegal immigrants and the building of a wall between the US and Mexico as being racist and bigoted (his first speech accuses all Mexicans of being rapists). Don't let others shouting political correctness left and right blind you from the fact that there are actual bigots in the world. Whether Trump is one or whether he will do what he has said is another matter, but it is how he rose to prominence and most bigots would support him.
Its not as if the Republicans have done much to unify people or encourage cooperation. They stopped Obama from appointing a Supreme Judge outright for a year, and are going to repeal much of the work he has done. This worries many because some of it, namely Obamacare, is literally saving their lives. How would you feel if your family was going to lose healthcare because nothing other than Obamacare would provide due to pre-existing conditions? Your kid falls badly ill? Well I suppose you just go into debt for the rest of your life, because some people think for profit healthcare is somehow acceptable. What about the claims that they're going to strip all environmental regulations, which will not only damage the planet (as if it isn't damaged enough) but also indirectly kill many due to pollution? Trump, as well as many Republicans, believe climate change to be a hoax. That is not a comforting thought.
Clinton won the popular vote but still lost. What the US has now though is a government completely controlled by the Republicans. They are making it abundantly clear that despite the election being 50/50 they are going to carry on as if the entire country is behind them. Asking the left to work with them while they literally destroy everything it has worked for is stupid. Maybe the left did the same to them, but if so then they should be responsible and mature adults and be the first to stop the cycle.
Perhaps things will change, maybe compromises will be made. But I don't think you can blame people for being scared because right now it seems the US is going hard right in 2017 despite more than half the votes being against that.
I think Clinton would have been a horrible President, but pretending that either her or Trump being elected is good is just plain silly.
Another ill informed approach.
The ban was on refugees (majority Muslim), you know the people currently tearing apart Europe with their culture war? We're not gonna take people who refuse to assimilate to our way of life. That isn't racist, it's cultural preservation.
As for a wall between the U.S. and Mexico, you do realize Canada is advocating a wall and militia to secure their border from fleeing American liberals?
Rt.com
Independent.co.uk
Worldnewsdailyreport.com
Although knowing how bigoted Euro's and other westerners are against Americans they'd probably look at that as normal while hypocritically condemning us for securing our Southern Border against illegal immigrants who don't even bother learning our history and language. Frankly I find that disgusting.
As for Obamacare, please don't... It's been a utter disaster and will be looking forward to tearing it down for replacement. Plans are already in the works.
Pjmedia.com
Realclearpolitics.com
Washingtontimes.com
Youngcons.com
As for climate change, I think you should be pestering China more about this given the fact they aren't even breathing clean air over there anymore. Besides, the more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. It's become near impossible to maintain a small business with all these bogus regulations. And small business is what the American Dream is based on. It's how we start from nothing.
The things the left has worked on here... we're not beneficial, but divisive and against what we've stood for, for over 200 years. As for the political side of that they've tried turning us into Europe. That's not who we are, that's not the USA. God knows it, we know it, and that's why Trump won this election.
Russia and Syria have publicly announced restoring peace with the United States. Israels Prime Minister announced that they want to repair the broken relationship between them and the United States also the the U.S. DOW closed yesterday at a record high. Mexico and Canada have announced they are willing to renegotiate NAFTA with the United States all in 72 hours of electing Trump, great week for America and the World. Say what you want about how "bad" Trump speaks, but all this happened and he takes office January 20 at noon.
It's done sir.
I want to point out that your sources for the Canadian border wall I think are chiefly writing in a facetious fashion, and one of them is false:
- Rt.com is reporting joke tweets from various Canadian and American citizens.
- The Independent says that Canadians are poking fun at America, saying they want to build an 'Ice Wall', and posts the same tweets from Rt.com plus a few more.
- The World News Daily Report has no sources, on the same website claims that German scientists have found empirical proof that there is life after death: Worldnewsdailyreport.com , and generally seems to be a tabloid with wholly false stories. The image posted on this article is not of supposed Canadian militia leader "John C. McCaullagh" as the article claims, but actually of Americans Ammon Bundy and LaVoy Finicum, who led a militia to occupy the Oregon Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in early 2016: Newyorker.com
So I don't think it's accurate to say that Canada is advocating a wall or militia to stop fleeing American liberals, unless joke tweets and tabloids count as serious advocating.
I'll grant you they were written in a humorous manner, but the idea itself didn't just start suddenly. They have been talking about this as far as a year ago.
Washingtonpost.com
Theglobeandmail.com
Montrealgazette.com
Not just for cultural reasons but economical.
You say it's a joke? Hmm...
People thought Trump winning was a joke too.
Kinda like the Brexit. Aw well, it happens.
The Washington Post Article's is summing/referring to the Globe and Mail and Montreal Gazette, and I think that the Globe and Mail and Montreal Gazette are also facetious:
- "Your average Berlin Wall wall might be easy to cross in winter when Canadian snow banks can be 15 feet high, so we’d have to build higher. Maybe we need a giant ice wall like the one in Game of Thrones that protects the Seven Kingdoms — but guarded by legions of Canadian snowmen.
Others have proposed a wall made of one-way glass so only we Canadians can see out — preferably one made of bulletproof glass."
- "Imagine the massive challenge of integrating them all and teaching them terms like “loonie,” “toonie,” “poutine,” “eh” and “sorry” — let alone the metric system.
Imagine their trauma when forced to “swear loyalty to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth” — and their difficulty getting used to Canadian news, like live three-day coverage of a first-ministers health-care conferenzzzz."
Though as you said, Trump winning was once a joke too, and I certainly didn't see Brexit coming. So maybe Canada will one day build a wall! Will they make the United States pay for it ^^ ?
To put it eloquently...
"Expect the unexpected"
"We're not gonna take people who refuse to assimilate to our way of life". Agree on this one. After all,isn't diversity what's making our world all the more interesting? Different cultures,different ways of life.
But still,I think there were more good candidates out there who never had the chance to step forward. Jill Stein had an interesting platform,I liked how she branded nuclear energy as being dirty and dangerous for mankind and so forth. Bernie also looked like he knew his ****,he has been in the game for quite a while,was he not?
Donald Trump is politically illiterate, let's face it. He rised in power only because he played the role of the "badass",the "untamed populist politician" and "the one for the people". However,he looks like he actually has some common sense for not wanting to start a damn war with Russia over Syria,I can only imagine the level of destructiveness in a conflict like that...
@Necrolifer
Trump and Putin I have a feeling are gonna be best friends by 2020.
Media.moddb.com
I don't think his specialty has even been beating around the bush, so of course he's gonna suck at talking like a lawyer. That's what Hillary specialized in, lawyer talk.
His ideas however are quite different for changing the country.
Different as in totally contrary to Obama's way of doing things.
Npr.org
That isn't cultural preservation, that's cultural suppression. You're banning all those who won't conform to your way of life. You criticize the left for being too politically correct, yet you refuse to acknowledge that what you are advocating for is the suppression of cultural minorities. We've done that in Europe before, it never ends well.
Ignoring climate change because China is doing it and building a wall because maybe some Canadians are asking for it is not an argument.
You have already made a judgement that all Europeans and "Westerners" are bigoted against you. Why? I'm not hating against Americans, I'm arguing against ideas that America is currently considering implementing. Am I not allowed to have a say because I'm European? Why do you get to judge all Europeans yet I somehow am unable to criticize policies that the Republicans may implement because I'm somehow biased?
Securing your border is not the same as banning Muslims and deporting illegal immigrants. I would also like a source that confirms all illegal immigrants refuse to learn your language. Learning your history is optional. I moved to Britain yet was not obligated in any way to learn their history.
Why was Obamacare a disaster? From what I understand it saved lives. Could you please explain to me why you do not like it? Honestly I hope that the Republicans create a better version of it which allows for those in need to receive healthcare at a reasonable cost, but they have only said they'd repeal it, and have given no information on what they will replace it with (to my knowledge anyway).
I'm not familiar with the regulations, but totally dismissing climate change and removing all restrictions that protect against pollution is a bad way to go. Again, hopefully they take a more reasonable and environment friendly route.
What things that the left have worked on? Referring to American ideals in history is not reassuring, because 200 years ago you were enslaving Africans, taking land from Mexicans and genociding the native population. I'm not saying that the US was alone in this (Europe literally raped Africa, its pretty sad to read about) but why appeal to what you stood for at that time? Liberty and freedom only if you're a white straight male? Because for the US and Europe that was what we called democracy. I would like to think we are better than that now.
Peace with Russia and Syria is good, and Clinton going hard on them may not have been a good idea. I'm not familiar with the situation so I cannot say for certain, but avoiding a conflict between the US and Russia seems good. Just because you support one side more than another doesn't mean that you have to do it enthusiastically or with blind faith.
I don't care about how "bad" Trump speaks, its the substance of what he's saying. There is a difference between being offended by the words he speaks and being offended at the ideas he is spreading.
You seem to assume that I'm totally anti-Trump or in denial that he has been elected. I'm pretty much 50/50 on him, because Clinton is also absolutely terrible. The reason I am arguing all of this is to show that, despite perhaps being good on some things (TPP primarily, if he goes through with it) that does not mean he is perfect. He needs to be criticized and people need to be skeptical not because he is Trump, but because he is a politician. If you let them get away with anything without a fight then you're potentially risking that democracy we're all so fond of.
Then again given what you have said I believe we have fundamentally different views regardless. I prefer to see everyone as humans first, and don't particularly care about nations or cultures. Before you get annoyed (maybe?) I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just explaining why I believe we differ on some of the above.
EDIT: My intention with all of this is to try to show that Republicans have some bad ideas they want to implement. Had Clinton won and this sort of discussion started accusing the right of being silly losers then I would have pointed to Clinton's corruption and trade deals as being reason enough for people to complain. I'll also admit that I have a bias against people who want to remove people's diversity, which is primarily a personal belief.
All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, neither the right nor the left in America should be praised. It just so happens I'm arguing against the right in this instance xD.
You're right, it is. Because I don't want to see my culture end up in the dustbin of history and everything we stood for stuck in history books and museums. Never to be practiced by my nation again. Ever played Rome II Total War? It ain't Rome unless it's Latin Culture. We don't do Hellenic ok, they can have their culture over in their country. But please, leave my Latin alone.
I'm ignoring it because I think you're overblowning just how serious it is. Not because I think it doesn't exist. Does that mean I'm against recycling and not wasting resources? Nope.
Ive been around facebook, moddb, youtube, and even talked with a few times with Europeans in person. Not all of them like us very much. So Ive taken akin to being on guard with them at times.
I'll go ahead and say Trump's plan for the refugees includes a overhauled vetting process so not all refugees will be banned. But the criteria will be stricter. You tell us we can't be picky, and then I look over at Europe's disaster with the refugee crisis and have a hard time taking what you said there at face value.
As for illegals, dude... they came here illegally. Without any background checks whatsoever. That's like saying I can't kick out a suspected terrorist, you really gonna take that risk with the lives of your citizens out of empathy? Prudence demands law and security, we don't do trojan horse here.
I gave you links to read about it that can give far more detail than I can pack into this already long response.
Not all regulations ever devised will be removed, but there will be a significant culling. Small businesses are getting hammered by laws and their penalties. The divide between rich and poor is worse than ever because of it.
Liberty and Freedom only works if people are responsible. After what Ive seen however the realization Ive come to is that multiculturalism is not very realistic in practice with these ideals. As not all cultures are tolerant to begin with. Especially when they're thrown into a melting pot constantly promoting that which is contrary to their values.
Yes, it is. Me and my friends have been worrying about what could happen under a Clinton presidency because we genuinely knew she'd carry Obama's foreign policy with a warhawk status.
I can understand and agree with that.
I'm not going to take it bad, I understand where you're coming from it's just I'm so used to discussing these things, not always with a fair partner, that it gets vexing at times. Sorry if I get testy.
I'm fine with people of any background coming to the U.S. but I expect them to respect our way of thinking and the ways of the majority. The left in the U.S. teaches we're to just sit there and take it when our ways are degraded and insulted. That, is something the right cannot tolerate.
Both have screwed us over, but we have a new president elect who isn't from their backgrounds. He's just a guy who picked up running for president as a hobby and beat a woman who's been playing this game for over 40 years. Funny isn't it?
This is both sad and hilarious...
Pjmedia.com
BURN IT DOWN
The population of Canada will begin to experience a sudden growth,eh?
Every election, the losing political party says we're moving to Canada.
The more passionate the election, the more dramatic they get.
I live in the most politically entertaining/vexing country in the world.
Whatever happened to BLM? Have they gone off the radar?
Well at least your country is gonna be fine,no matter what. Legislative elections are coming at full-speed in Romania,and the parties we have...oh boy.
"Headhunter, have you ever tried compromising with someone who's done nothing but throw insults, labels, and riot when they don't get their way or the highway?
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about right now and it shows, not that I'm surprised given you don't even live here."
See... this is what I'm talking about, I ask a Trump supporter a few questions, is in any way critical and they decide I'm stupid, ignorant, or that I don't understand because I'm not American. All it took was two short comments, and you decide my opinion isn't valid, or that I'm in some way horrendously uninformed.
To flip it, you, and many Americans this election, have talked a lot about Europe and because of Bernie Sanders, Denmark (Where I live yes, not the US). Saying its destroying itself, or that the Danish government is **** for reason A, B, or C. Yet you don't know a thing about Denmark. Doesn't stop you from judging us "bigoted Euro's."
So why do you get to voice your OPINION on us, seemingly claiming to understand European politics, hoping for the EU to come crashing down, welcoming back the nationalism that sparked two world wars in Europe. Thinking you know whats best for us. How come you can say that, but because I'm not an American, and because I disagree with you. I can't understand?. I guess I "don't have clue."
Hypocritical.
"Welcoming back the nationalism that sparked two world wars in Europe" - True that.
Whatever happened to healthy patriotism?
There is plenty of healthy patriotism. Thing is, Denmark is a small country, in many ways an insignificant country and we know it. Therefor we associate patriotism with societal welfare and the greater good.
We also have a small military, but we are tremendously proud of it, and we were very proud of having been selected to fight in some of the toughest and harshest regions of Afghanistan some years back, and we did it well.
Our patriotism just doesn't register outside of Denmark. Or in Sweden, but that's more of a "Healthy Rivalry" thing xD
@Headhunter128
That, was what I got upset with you about. Because you made it sound like anyone who supports Trump totally screwed up because "they're willing to compromise and we aren't". I just explained why we couldn't compromise, cause they're not even willing to meet us at the table, they prefer to shout profanities at us rather than actually talk. Not all of them, but unfortunately many with positions of influence and power.
Rather than attempting to understand why we think the way we do, many of them prefer the bliss off passing us off as bigots and using the media to dog us out of any modicum of credibility. And they wonder why the mainstream media has lost so much respect...
To be perfectly honest that patriotism you're talking about that sparked two world wars was before modern communications actually began to take off. We have internet now and that's changed a lot of how civilized countries can connect and work.
Most the populace isn't going to support a war over "oh, the President of France insulted the Queen. We must respond in FORCE!" Because frankly such a thing would be found utterly ridiculous once the internet got a hold of it. Nor is a assassination going to start a euro conflict. Lets be honest, most governments don't operate like that anymore and frankly can't. The era of monarchist pride is over. Plus they're far fonder of discrediting opponents and rivals with today's modern communications. Killing character is preferable to getting blood on one's hands. Typically has the same desired result.
And I'll add, I'm a patriot but I don't support expansionism. My country is big enough, and frankly has enough of it's own problems. Consider yourself with a blessing to have a small country, it's not all bad. Just not as influential.
People will probably bring up Crimea and Russia to point out another expansionist argument, to be honest though with NATO expanding there in violation of a agreement we had with the Russians was a pretty big justification for them to do what they did. So that's another thing to keep in mind without globalism. Actually honor your agreements and you don't have to worry about wars breaking out.
Latimes.com
Globalism is cancer to me. Frankly, the reason your politics is important to us is due to the fact those same globalists trying to take over your world are trying to do so in mine. Not very happy about that. So naturally I'm gonna be a nosy Americana.
As for the EU crashing down... yeeeeaaaahhh....
Nytimes.com
You'll be seeing clones of me around soon.
As if one of me wasn't annoying enough.
WW1 didn't start because one guy was assassinated. In reality it could be argued that tensions between all European powers started during the Scramble for Africa (or even the formation of Germany), and there were many different crisis' and armament races (such as naval race between Britain and Germany). There were numerous instances of situations in which WW1 could have started, it just so happened it exploded when Ferdinand was assassinated.
Also constant Western intervention in Middle-eastern affairs (since WW1 when France/Britain took chunks of it) could be defined as a form of Imperialism, and neo-colonialism could be said to still exist in areas of Africa which have a mostly mono-cultural economy and who depend on multi-national corporations.
Just saying :P
I said nationalism, not patriotism. And I did so on purpose because I believe the two are fundamentally different. Nationalism provides people with a reason to fight, good & bad. Patriotism is your contribution to that fight. (In regard the the context of our discussion at least)
"Because you made it sound like anyone who supports Trump totally screwed up because "they're willing to compromise and we aren't". I just explained why we couldn't compromise, cause they're not even willing to meet us at the table"
Lol. Obama have spent 8 years sending olive branches and trying to work together with the Republican party towards something they could all agree on, but in pure spite they have refused to cooperate on most issues/policies, instead trying to discredit him or make him look bad in an attempt to better their odds for the next election. But sure. They were the ones not willing to meet at the table. Even if the Democrats now aren't willing, it still makes anyone from the other side a hypocrite if that's their issue. After all, the Democrats are just taking a cue, albeit a ridiculous one, from the Republicans on this.
"Most the populace isn't going to support a war over "oh, the King of France insulted the Queen. We must respond in FORCE!""
WW One/Two didn't happen in medieval times, so that's bad example. In regards to the internet preventing future World Wars, I don't think so. The internet is to the modern age what the printing press and radio was to the 19th and 20th century. As we saw, the radio and printing press just became a tool of governments to make people continue the fight.
The internet will be used in the same way. Already is in most conflicts, a lot of ISIS success when it comes to recruiting can easily be contributed to the internet.
"Globalism isn't needed. Frankly, the reason your politics is important to us is due to the fact those same globalists trying to take over your world are trying to do so in mine. Not very happy about that. So naturally I'm gonna be a nosy Americana."
And yet, when it comes to influencing or generally just messing with other nations. I'm pretty sure most of the world agree that America is the front runner in that business. If you're so afraid of globalism, look first at the nation who's got a finger in every pie. Whether its culture, economics or military, its the USA that's everywhere. Then again, maybe I'm confusing Globalism with Imperialism. I'm pretty sure the US is guilty of at least one of those. But ah, American hypocrisy at its finest.
Edit: Btw, Globalism (In its origin) is about making sure the US kept being the economic and military top dog in the world. I thought that was what you wanted? Lol
Probably because the policies he was initiating weren't going to work to begin with? Why would they support something doomed to fail? Take Obamacare for example.
It's one thing to accuse of lack of cooperation, it's another to call us the bad guys for refusing to go through with a plan that they didn't even try to explain the intimate details of to us. You have any idea how many pages were in that law and it was passed anyway without being read and understood? Since then it's done largely the opposite of what it was intended to do despite objections from Republicans. Maybe that's because their objections held actual merit?
Refusal too cooperate.... Yeah you're damn right we're not gonna cooperate when you're just rushing legislation through without even asking us what we thought could use revision in it to begin with.
Really? Internet isn't just absorbing, it's telling. That's the key difference you're ignoring here. I can not only respond to propaganda with internet, I can counter it anywhere in the world. Welcome to info wars.
As for ISIS, well the United States Marines use the internet too. It's fair game for everyone, and hackers love attacking ISIS sites.
Uh huh, and that's what we're looking to back away from. This, if for any reason why you should be happy Trump won. It's because he cares more about the internal issues with America, than screwing around in other countries business. He even condemned Iraq when it was first brought up before the invasion. He's been critical of the Syria conflict, and likewise wants good relations with Russia. Contrary to the policies of those like Obama who kept us in Iraq and Afghanistan, put us in Syria and Libya, and then started fights with Russia resulting in Crimea.
If we're gonna be the best of the best, it's gonna be through our own prowess and ingenuity in our own borders. Not because of how we project power to others. I'm tired of wars over regime changes and sick of conflicts over political gravitas.
EDIT: I think we're gonna have to continue this discussion on a new post cause comments are disappearing and there's no page 2 option for me... Odd