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Hey here is a reference for you guys to use when a Christian claims that Christians have a moral high ground or that atheists are responsible for all the crimes in human history

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Hey here is a reference for you guys to use when a Christian claims that Christians have a moral high ground or that atheists are responsible for all the crimes in human history

: note this is not a full list, it doesn't list full extent of Christian crimes mostly because there are so many as well as the full extent of many just aren't know because no good records of the atrocities were kept
Also note listed is the Holocaust which should be listed given Hitler's Christian beliefs and the religious (Christian anti-Jewish) motivations
also not listed Atlantic slave trade, KKK and other Christian terrorist activities
and the spread of false information and work against condoms in Africa and other parts of the world which has increased the spread of aids almost to the point of a genocide

If you guys think of anything else

post it in the Comment section below

Mr.Walrus - - 5,806 comments

People, PLEASE stop using Hitler as an example. It's ridiculous to claim that Hitler's actions can be blamed on a religion or lack thereof. Not only do we not clearly know if Hitler was an atheist, Christian, or some variation of egocentric form of Paganism, but he also said things both opposing and supporting the church (I find it most plausible he'd just switch to either religion or nonreligion whenever it gave him power and was a convience to him). You can't just blatantly say his actions should be listed as the faults of Christianity. Killing the Jews was not anti-Jewish Christian radicalism, it was anti-wealth political scapegoating. I might remind you that some of the most Christian nations on Earth came to fight the very power which oppressed the Jews in the first place, and that the atheistic Soviet Union also exterminated its own Jews. You might just as easily say that the killing of millions of Soviet citizens and Jews in the U.S.S.R. was a direct result of Stalin's atheistic amoral beliefs and hatred of all religious people, even when it has no true relation. Neither forms of genocide, either by atheists or theists, had religious association. The crusades for instance, being directed by the church, can be attributed to Christianity because the Christian authorities backed and enforced it (not saying that things haven't changed radically with the Church since then), but that is not the case with Hitler. People need to stop trying to prove their theistic or nontheistic convictions correct based off of whether Hitler shared beliefs with the opposing side.

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Cervi_Messias Author
Cervi_Messias - - 1,898 comments

the holocaust was inspired by anti-Jewish Christian teaching prevalent in Europe since the dark ages.

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Cervi_Messias Author
Cervi_Messias - - 1,898 comments

and even if Hitler was a pagan (he might have been) he used Christians to do his work
and was supported by Christians not Just in Germany but all over the world (just look up his huge pre-war following in the U.S.)

and christain nations didn't fight the second world war for the jews, many of the christain nations wanted the exact same thing for minorities. they fought for survival
Just look at the U.S. policy's in the 20's 30's 40's
(which I might add were Christian inspired and created laws)

and yes the Jews were a scape goat, but the roots ad continuation of the ideas involved are again directly tied to early anti-Jewish Christian doctrine

O and if you looked it up you WOULD see that the church back up, and supported the Holocaust.
Hell if you looked it up you would see that they even helped in the exterminations
So the Holocaust is just as much of a Christian driven event as the crusades
to say it wasn't is trying to whitewash the past
which I think is despicable
we cannot ignore what they have done, because if history has shown us anything its that time and time again they have shown the exact same kind of behavior just in bigger and more horrific ways

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Mr.Walrus - - 5,806 comments

If you credit Christianity with the effects of European anti-Jewish teachings in the Dark Ages in relation to the 1940's, you also have to attribute charity, morality, and modern civilization in Europe to it too. Both were highly influenced and shaped by the Church; so if Christianity is to be blamed for something as distant from its doctrine as the Holocaust, it also lays claim to all its positive distant effects on society, including the moral code, social welfare, charity systems, etc. of Europe

This also gives blame to atheism for the death of millions, because in saying that "but the roots ad continuation of the ideas involved are again directly tied to early anti-Jewish Christian doctrine", with that logic you can easily say that the genocide of Russian Jews & Soviet citizens are directly tied to "anti-religious atheist doctrine" in the U.S.S.R.

The role of the church in WWII is highly debatable, there are conflicting accounts and the pope of the time is said to have opposed the Nazis vehemently. While I know about the debate on the subject, I find the idea of the church assisting in exterminations highly dubious. Also, keep in mind that the atheistic U.S.S.R. let the German genocide happen without flinching, and then carried out their own extermination of Jews following the war. Blame is a double-edged sword; you can't selectively blame the religious and then ignore the actions of the nonreligious.

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Mr.Walrus - - 5,806 comments

(Cont., sorry for the wall of text)

While it is undeniable that the teachings from the Christians contributed to anti-Jewish sentiment, Christian teachings also contributed to positive aspects of Europe too. Teachings from the atheists at the time also contributed to anti-Jewish sentiment, and currently contribute to positive aspects of our own world too.

The truth is, neither atheism nor Christianity is "responsible" for the holocaust, it was Hitler, the Nazi Party, and racist/Aryan supremacist ideology (which could just as reasonably be blamed on Darwin as Hitler's genocide could be blamed on Christianity).

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Velancious - - 1,978 comments

Whatever Hitler's religion or lack thereof...I've always asked myself why the **** does it matter.

It's like everyone is assuming bad people are spawned from a specific ideology. Newsflash: Every ideology has a ******* negative side to it. There's good and bad people that can be found in any ideology.

The only time is which this changes to favor the good or bad is when the ideology is based on an extremity. (This means from a hate group like the KKK to a specifically nice group bent on helping others)

I mean, what are you more likely to find in the KKK? Nice people or bad people? It's common sense.

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Medusa_Zenovka - - 1,007 comments

You are basically right, but it also depends what kind of people an ideology allows to be in with. And clearly religion allows many sick people to behave sick.

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Cervi_Messias Author
Cervi_Messias - - 1,898 comments

well in a larger sense it does matter,
firstly beliefs are not some free floating magical thing- they effect our actions
we act on what we believe
he WAS drawn to anti-Semite and racist ideology in Christianity (which was a major and integral part of the Christian faith at the time)
and then he ACTED on those beliefs killing millions of Jews, Russians, Homosexuals etc.

if he had not been exposed to those ideas and Christianity itself we may never have had the Holocaust, possible the second World war the fascist ideology was primarily Christian based and supported, it fits better with biblical thinking than "free" nations ideals.

Human society is in essence a complex system, we are not independent but a single complex unit.
Billions of lives interacting globally, time and time again "little" ideas and "personal" beliefs have altered millions of lives and as has often been the case of religions helped in the ending of billions

This is why his beliefs matter, even if he no longer considered himself Christian his beliefs CAME from it. That's what really matters- the consequences

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OctaviaNocturnis - - 1,013 comments

(Old topic, I know, but it warrants a reply) Christianity is actually a very pro-Jewish religion, take a look at the old testament for an example, or all of the admiration modern Christians (especially Protestants)have for the Jews. Jesus himself was a Jew, and what it all boils down to is religionists loving each other, and then hating each other again.

I disagree with Fascism or Nazism being Christian in inspiration, if anything, the anti-Semitism in National Socialism came from Islam, which Adolf Hitler admired at the time. Not to mention that Fascism was formed on atheistic standards such as Social Darwinism. Fascists such as Mussolini were also atheists, or at least skeptical of Christianity. Hitler also said National Socialism was founded on scientific principles (in his own words), but any sort of Christian beliefs he might seemed to have were mostly for propaganda purposes, since the majority of the 1930's-1940's German population was Christian. Hitler himself was very critical of religion, and the Nazis held contempt for Catholics.

It's a ridiculous misconception to say that Fascism is connected to Christianity, perhaps "Neo-Fascism" or "Neo-Nazism" is, but not the original sources of those ideas. To assume that Fascism is Christian is to also assume that Egalitarianism is fully Atheist.

In my line of personal research on the endless depths of the Judeo-Christian religion's claims and hypocrisies, I have found their religion to be more in check with modern liberalism and Leftist-Socialism. (which is not the same as the more healthy enlightenment era liberalism).

Hitler's religion is actually unknown and left up to speculation, he could have been an Odinist, a Christian, an Atheist, a Muslim, Deist, Agnostic, and the list goes on.

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SeBioL - - 322 comments

I believe there is no need to argue before the theists, because making mistakes is not a belief relationship. The moral of each is linked to personal conscience. Their behavior is an automatic reaction. Natural. Spontaneous. You can not improve their conduct overnight because he believes in something.
Religion is a rulebook that will not change your consciousness or nature!

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