"If only Steam were like Moddb. Just post your project and let people know it exists."
If only people would wise the **** up and stop letting these middlemen (miserable profiteering scumbags) -- these useless "distributors" -- get in between themselves and the games they can just as (if not even moreso) easily download from Moddb... or Jack's goddamed OneDrive; or Torrential Torrent MagnetoLand; Or TheDarkMod.Net; Or HEyYOUfUck.Org...
Good god, how long?
Really, really great job of using what must be the very best assets available -- especially the visuals. Everything looked really tight. Nothing particularly spectacular, but everything really tight.
And of course, as anticipated and as necessary for a guy ambitious enough to set about creating a campaign, some very good work with the story. Lots of story -- plenty of coherent and connected readables; nice, nice cut-scenes... iow, fleshed-the-****-out. Also, cliffhanger, but not an annoying one.
I loved the opportunity to do the optional objectives (but will always hate the nonoptnk!)...
There were some things to criticize -- too obvious here; too easy there; things along those lines that I hope can be made to fit the difficulty level in the coming chapters... -- but, aside from those brief mentions, that's about it on the imperfect side.
Basically the mission was great... I just finished "Dishonored" before playing it and so it had to be great, else I don't know if I'd have bothered. As a matter of fact I know I wouldn't have bothered.
So, thanks, Grayman.
Well, well, well... the post that got censored at the official TDM forums was nothing more than the same sentiments as I posted above -- about what an excellent mission this is...
How petty. How very, very petty.
Oh I'm being censored again over on the official forum... so I'll try and post about the big bug I found here I guess... but I see there is ~"no formatting -- only text" for these posts... but I also see that SolidSnake pulled off some spoilerproofing stuff in his post, which I would like to do for my "bug report"... how so?
I imagine the bug is well known because it is a _huge hole_, but just in case...
Well, just finished.
There is no doubt.
That is the best mission ever created for The Dark Mod.
Period.
EPIC.
ABSOLUTELY ******* EPIC.
Congratulations, thanks, haha, etc, ShadowHide.
This may be the first truly _excellent_ TDM mission.
Up until now I would say there have been a couple of others that were very, very good. And there have been some others that were quite good ones too: due credit, for sure, to TDM as a platform and the FMAs for their hard work as well...
But this one is a tour-de-force.
I actually haven't finished it yet, that's why I can only say "may be" as yet. And there _is_ a big bug (easily fixable, I'm sure, and in the meantime not a game-breaker... if you don't exploit it).
So impressive on so many levels.
Well, I played it and it was "very good" or better in all the right ways.
There were some occasions that I experienced some bugs, but those were "inherent in the system! ;)" rather than mission bugs (AI sitting on air, for example -- glitchy-happenings 1.08 will hopefully lessen if not eliminate).
And, as for the lag, I would expect such with so much AI on patrol. The streets were crawling with Filth! I'm happy to put up with a big of lag (because my setup only gets a little bit laggy under such conditions {I understand it gets worse for some and not at all, possibly, for others})... I'm happy to put up with a bit of lag for the experience of having a lot of liveliness rather than 60FPS in a ghost-town...
...
Basically?
A fine mission. Much to do and much to look forward to as well!
Thanks, Taffsalot.
...a HUGE list of potential changes with would mostly amount to the visuals being more physically accurate from a structural POV.
These things do not concern me.
AAMOF, the way every "structural", "'Thief-Universe'-contextual", "in reality", "aesthetically", "feng-*******-shui" things are critiqued -- without fail, by sometwo or more -- kind of irritates me; much as I'm sure they are, if given the right amount of credence, a kind of healthy aspect of the core community... and much as I'm sure that my critiques are an irritant too, to others.
No, I'm not interested in those kind of fixes. To me an FM author is entirely and expressly to be expected to present the "vision" however that FM author wants.
I am just concerned with gameplay-structural problems. Real narrative-breaking glitches. Actual (and squashable) bugs. I thought I'd seen mention of a few of those kinds of things, but I do not read to closely the comments, of course, for fear of spoiliblahblahblah... if there are little to none of those discovered as yet, I shall get this one soon.
Thanks.
And also congrats to Taffsalot.
Any ETA on a possible updated release?
Bikerdude says it's not been adequately beta-tested... and, just scanning through the TDM forum's thread on this FM reveals there are more than a couple of "bugs".
This is not meant as a slam or to be discouraging; only to ask. I've (unofficially of course!) determined that all TDM FMs benefit from the (unofficial of course!) broader beta-testing that goes on as each mission is released to the "public". There are a set of (maybe 20?) players who eat these things up within minutes or hours -- too-quickly afaic, but enough so to find the prominent glitches -- of downloading and these folk are the ones who download these FMs quickest too -- all reporting back within a few days ... this, for me, has become the real beta-test phase... hopefully to be followed by a re-release within a week or so.
?
Further "clarification".
But the proposition from Springheel was specifically "what if there is no next release of TDM?"
-Tels, March 28th 2012
Oh, well, specifically that would suck.
Because it would mean that 2 of the best fan missions authors' currently completed fan mission builds would not get released because, according to those authors, Grayman and Sotha, they are just waiting on the next release of TDM.
Sometimes I think the future of the mod is more fragile than people realize... The development team keeps getting smaller and smaller. Would the community continue if suddenly there were no more new updates?
-Springheel, March 24th 2012
The mod hasn't really had much in the way of missions for almost a year now, it seems. The aforementioned grayman mission(s) (and much more, also aforementioned) are delayed until the release of 1.08. 1.08 is inexplicably tied-to/dependent upon the major undertaking of merging the D3 source... Sotha has now stated that his new mission is pending the 1.08... And now this doom and gloom?
WTF?
Given the current fps drop we are trying to solve after merging the D3 source code, perhaps release will be delayed long enough to try and implement [the fix for the AI being way too quick to go from alerted to ready to kill you] for 1.08. Not a given of course, but the issue with the fps drop has been quite elusive in terms of finding the cause.
This is why the opening of the D3 source code was almost certainly bound to be a double-edged sword...
From November 2011:
I almost despair the opening of the source code because I want to see -- for one of many particular instances -- grayman's campaign begin and I think he may become Michael Corleoned ("Just when I thought he was going to relax a little on the code front they pull him back in!").
All the many improvements to the gameplay; grayman's (and who knows which other?) missions being delayed until; all the many assets that have been added and improved upon; all the horizon opening i18n work tels has been up to... dependent on this MAJOR undertaking of merging the D3 source code...
Aaaaauuughhhh!
As I said a month ago...
...here at ModDB the TDM "downloads" page is only up to date as of version 1.06.
This is now being indicated and pointed to by the new article at pcgames.de...
... as the latest version of TDM.
The article is some great publicity! I hope it brings a lot of people to the official site, but if not it'd at least be good to have those that only make it this far to have 1.07 available under "downloads".
Better yet! How about putting 1.08 here? ;)
... see above (AidaKeeley 2012-01-03 and 2012-01-17)
I still say, "Oy Vey!"
Grayman has verified his intention to not release the 1st of the William Steele series until 1.08 makes it out.
But to disguise my whinge about that as the only reason I'm here, I will make mention of something else: here at ModDB the TDM "downloads" page is only up to date as of version 1.06.
TDM 1.08 (Scheduled For Release 2012-11-27).
Oy.
Vey.
Yeah, "episodic" means the same thing.
The point being that it's easier to wait for episode 3 when you have episodes 1 and 2 to keep you occupied in the meantime... ;)
I say this as a FMPlayer, obviously , rather than a FMAuthor. And that's, obviously and honestly, where I'm coming from...
But I can make a case also for the benefit of the campaign and those FMAs working on it:
1. It'll keep them stoked with what must be a big part of FMAing -- happy feedback praise.
2. It'll set them on a more collaborative course than each working on individual missions and, rather, focusing, as a whole team, to some higher degree on whatever mission is next to roll out.
3. If the missions/chapters are released in an episodic manner there won't be a possibly crippling constant re-visioning and, therefore, re-working of the whole goddamned thing every 2.3 weeks. Direction will have been taken; narrative invoked (conclusions are still open and creativity still holds sway, mind you); and the impetus to move forward, not laterally or maybe backward, is assured.
Springheel - 2012-01-05
[Informs us of more asset updates that will be a great improvement AND hopefully impetus for FM building sparking]:
"How about 200 new impact sounds?"
... see above (AidaKeeley 2011-11-29)
Again, hopefully these asset updates can be pak't up and released without being "tied" to coding updates that obviously need testing and retesting and then some testing and retesting not to mention the doing and maybe redoing; which, thus, requires more time to get out than these asset updates need have!
grayman - 2012-01-03
[Response to vocal asset updates, slated for 1.08]:
"I listened to a dozen.
Excellent.
One more reason to hold out for 1.08."
... see above (AidaKeeley 2011-11-29)
"No official release date has been set; updates will continue as the campaign development progresses. Be sure to keep an eye out for future updates."
So probably sometime between tomorrow and the Second Advent?
But seriously this is of course great news, knowing that these FMAs are up to good works. I just wish they'd consider, now, serialization... Fatigue risks on both the building and the playing, IMNHO.
About the excellent (again with the "excellent"... oy!) new textures and models:
I wonder if it might be suggested that these "asset" updates can be separated from the "code" updates? So that they might roll out more frequently? Maybe add another level to the version-numbering or something. It just seems -- reading through the official forums (forums.thedarkmod.com) -- that there are plenty of these improvement and additions being "completed" (by Serpentine, Baddcog, Springheel, Melan, Nosslack...) more often. And that these things don't really need to be, for lack of a better and more tactful term, "tied" to code enhancements and tweaks that needs to be thoroughly tested, and thus, understandably, take quite some time to roll out.
Now we just need some new missions!
I almost despair the opening of the source code because I want to see -- for one of many particular instances -- grayman's campaign begin and I think he may become Michael Corleoned ("Just when I thought he was going to relax a little on the code front they pull him back in!").
I say, "almost", of course.
Excellent article (on some truly excellent improvements).
Cool enough. I was just curious if there was something specific about the 11th.
...about the "revisingmentations": since I know that you are sort of the Organizer, can you maybe see what you can do about getting the practice of FM revisions systematized? As in herding the FM author cats towards a standard practice of "versioning" their releases? By, for instance, making sure all revisions (bug fixed) are signified in the "darkmod.txt" and also clear notifications of such are put in the first post of FM threads... and so ...and so forth?
I hope you see what I'm getting at and that you agree it would be nice to have this as a part of "How to Release a Fan Mission".
A pretty successful contest just from the point of getting so many completed. Congrats, to you, on "throwing" a successful contest; and congrats to the contestants too, of course.
I've played Mortem's, figuring it to be the one most likely to not maybe need some "revise"... and it is lovely and economical and fun and tricked-out and all-other-kinds-of-good too.
Why the odd(?) voting deadline? Not that there shouldn't be a deadline -- but what's the December 11th thing all about?
Congrats to Bikerdude!
Probably definitely for sure it seems quite likely, the hardest working FMA.
Sometimes I wish he'd take on a little less outside work, reworking and retrofitting... and just concentrate on creating his own stuff -- from scratch. Fingers-in-every-pie-at-every-opportunity!
It is hard to be critical of such though.
So I close with another hurrah:
Hurrah and Hurray, Biker!
Yes, nbohr, for a FIRST (a qualification _you_ needed to STRESS!) mission the flaws are entirely understandable. Like Shadowhide's FIRST mission. I never said that it wasn't. There _is_ much to be admired here -- nothing innovative, but certainly some more experimenting with some of the possibilities afforded by TDM. A good thing to keep at, but sloppily executed and therefore not such a fine set of examples.
The mission _is_ fundamentally flawed. Yes obviously, while not being the "sole criteria", narrative-busting design is not some minor issue. It is a major criterion. It is fundamental. Game-breaking or game-making, no doubt.
While Shadowhide went all woe-is-me-I-suck fishing, which was silly; this sad denial-***-admission tact is silly as well.
But, my main point of contention has been with the silliest thing of all: the undeniably unadulterated, sycophantic nonsense on display...
This mission is really quite a mess and should not be put forth as something to promote TDM with; honestly.
As you seem to realize I'm not trying to hurt Springheel* but only to bring a little grounded critique.
TDM is still being judged. And there is a lot of disingenuous nonsense coming from some of the naysayers. A lot of disingenuous nonsense coming from this side is not helpful but harmful. And especially so if it ends up promoting a mission that could easily serve as fodder for naysaying...
*As you might say, "The kid doth protest too much". I thought it pitiful and am sad to see he continues to display his hurt. I don't believe I've had a particular situation with him, and I've certainly never displayed any vindictiveness when evaluating missions or otherwise (witness my praise of Sotha's mission, even after he pulled his petty-minded not-gonna-let-you-beta-test-for-me thing).
Look, It's really sad that you need to believe or pretend that this is some personal thing.
It's quite clearly not. I pointed out that this is not a good mission to put forth as something that shows off The Dark Mod because, in truth, it rather shows off how you can make a mess.
I wanted to avoid deconstructing the mission's many failings. But I was asked to elaborate, so I just took the most obvious and biggest game-buster and pointed to it. That was received with a pathetic denial-***-confirmation.
And then you come and do the same thing.
And then having done that (denial and confirmation at once) you now want to assert that it is all some personal "axe to grind". You want to chalk it all up to me picking on you. And you insist I keep it up! Well, I certainly don't, as you put it, "have to", but I will give you a little more to think about and then, as I've grown bored with this little charade, let it be.
I'll keep it as brief as I can -- 3 more flaws, in short:
If you head west at the east-or-west point so early in the mission you aren't only very likely to enter the hideout, you are also likely (and if you are a good thief) to enter into the place that has the conversation that (sloppily) "explains" the humiliation objective. This too, and how it makes a mess, has been pointed out to you.
The hideout has a chandelier that you can extinguish the candles on... nifty... but to no effect. A waste of water arrows. Sloppy.
You can kill Sykes and it does not fail the mission.
"I guess that's all 'sycophantic nonsense'"
Yep. That is what I said.
And yep, you know damned well and have even expressly admitted that the the mission is likely to be a mess if you go west rather than east at that early point. You've been told about it, realized it, and admitted it.
If you'd like me to go on about the many other flaws certainly I can. But I'd really rather not. I didn't want to deconstruct it even to the degree I have because I know it seems harsh. But I was asked to and then met with a ridiculous denial-***-confirmation.
I'm just saying that this is not a good mission to put forward as something that represents the best of what The Dark Mod is capable of...
It is not. Sadly it is quite the opposite. And no amount of instant(!), uncritical nonsense will make it otherwise. It's rather sloppy mission with a lot of failings and not a whole lot of actual substance.
"[Silly, ironic, contradictory... "hogwash", indeed]... there is a FM bug (not a TDM bug) whereby one objective won't get checked off if you don't complete another first..."
Yes, hogwash indeed.
You have done a commendable job! I'm sure you will be rewarded in due course for your staring the facts in the face, reiterating them and maintaining all the while that they don't matter because [i]simply everyone[/i] agrees we are to instantly(!) fall about.
"This mission has almost unanimously become an instant favourite amongst fans of TDM..."
A simple case of sycophantic nonsense. Really.
You want me to elaborate? The fact is don't need to elaborate. I know you know exactly what I'm talking about but would rather play along with the "unanimous, instant, favorite".
The mission asks the player to head north to a certain dwelling (a restrictive aspect that would normally get plenty of criticism, by the way) -- and the mission and all of its not-ready-for-prime-time scripting depends upon this avenue of "adventure". Problem is the way north is met immediately by an east or west road. 50% chance of going the wrong way and experiencing a mess. 3 years in development and this never occurred? Majorly sloppy.
There is a lot more I could "elaborate" on, but let's just leave it at that because its a stark and egregious failing that alone makes a mockery of the idea that this mission is pivotal in a positive sense.
It is not one of the better missions.
There are plenty of missions that look a lot better.
There are plenty of missions that work a lot better.
There are plenty of missions that play a lot better.
AidaKeeley
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