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Excogitatoris-Logica
Excogitatoris-Logica - - 2,755 comments

So in a nutshell, the USA is massively wasteful on the management of cattle. Not really surprising, it's 'murica after all.

Now, vegans bother me.
Not because I disagree, cattle is treated in horrible ways no living creature should be treated. Plus, poor management of meat, dairy and similarly animal-derived industries are a massive resource loss at long term. That much I can see and wholly agree with.

What bothers me is how improving the cattle industry (so it's actually efficient, its products properly checked for risks in human consumption, and so on) doesn't seem to cross anyone's mind.
Why it MUST be shut down? I refuse to even consider it can't be improved. A process that wasteful is most likely riddled with stuff lacking optimization.

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MalfistheMerciless
MalfistheMerciless - - 86 comments

Even conservative estimates from other countries has the same problems like Brazil. Also why do "vegans bother you" when the health benefits overwhelmingly favor their lifestyle choice? There is no question that even the most 'light' meat eater is still going to have worse health then a vegetarian and vegan. The environmental effects seem to be all associated with the size of animal populations which outnumber humans 3 to 1; for example deforestation, irrigation of sewage and production of feed grain that can make the most profits. You can solve the problem by simply changing your lifestyle - any 'efficiency' will only lessen the problem, not eliminate it. And thats ignoring the treatment of animals in factory-farming.

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hoho96
hoho96 - - 3,797 comments

I have to disagree there. Vegan diet is absolutely NOT healthier than a mixed diet.
I'll give you that it's healthier than a fast food murica-style diet (which to be honest anything is healthier than that).
Humans are simply built to eat meat AND plants. You can never possibly live healthily on one without the other.

Now as far as cattle industries; yeah there is a big problem with it being too "industrialized" and wasteful. We're producing far more cattle than is actually needed because the Macdonalds and KFC followed the craziest capitalist model possible to maximize profit. This is in itself not the major problem, but the issue is that the fast lifestyle of the the west came to rely primarily on fast food.
If people were afforded the time and effort to actually cook their own meals, there will be far less demand on burgers -----> far less needed meat to satisfy the market.

For comparison: here in syria (at least in my town) we have meat almost daily, but literally every household cook their own food with a large variety of ingredients. This cumulate in that most agricultural products here are for direct and indirect consumption, while livestock is never that major of an ecological issue at all (we do have animal industry mind you).
Fast food here is a luxury and for a change of style every now and then, but it's never the go to source of meals.

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TheUnbeholden Author
TheUnbeholden - - 3,608 comments

Cutting sugar and processed foods gives you a slight edge in health, in that you will get less chance of diabetes, reduced cholesterol, cancer & obesity risk factors but only by very little (mainly from less sugar). In fact eating less meat will give you better results for all those factors then simply cutting processed food. Actually you can live healthy by taking vitamin B12, calcium, vitamin A & D supplements - stuff like flax seed oil, walnuts, fortified milk or seeds can give you the fatty acids on a vegetarian or vegan diet. No we weren't designed to eat meat since we die from various common diseases I listed in the description. We don't produce vitamin C naturally, our blood is Alkaline despite meat producing sulfur and increasing blood acidity which calcifies our kidney and liver, large protein intake from meat robs nutrients from our bones by calcium excretion through urine which causes Atherosclerosis in older age, almost 3 times the heart disease risk, dietary cholesterol accumulate and our body is not good at dealing with it all (diseases of the heart, brain and cancer all linked to LDL and HDL cholesterol - so called good cholesterol is unnecessary, OUR BODY naturally produces all we need of it) & just from diabetes alone it robs ~20 years from our lives:
Youtube.com
Youtube.com
Youtube.com
Youtube.com
Nutritionfacts.org
Nytimes.com
Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Circ.ahajournals.org
Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

2 diseases can only be gotten from meat consumption - remember these common diseases are the BIGGEST KILLERS next to suicide and become minor risks on a vegan/vegetarian diet. If you need protein, iron, zinc & folate you can get beans, lentils, seeds & leafy green vegetables like broccoli. Some vegetarians and vegans have deficiency with iron & zinc despite eating alot of the above though. If you need high protein then you can still eat various grain like rice, pasta & cereals but that will reduce your ability to lose weight. I've also taken the liberty of providing all the links for starting this diet & common problems associated with it.

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Excogitatoris-Logica
Excogitatoris-Logica - - 2,755 comments

Guess I'll just explicitly state why vegans bother me:
Because of the "don't fix, destroy" mentality towards animal farming.
There's so many things going wrong yet granted the possibility of improvement, why this unexplained exception towards animal farms?
With the information available to me, it makes no sense. Either I'm missing something pretty big or it's just plain old unreasonable.

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Description

Source: Youtube.com

Basically you can't be a environmentalist and eat animals. There doesn't appear to be any rational/logical way out of it at the moment.
There is of course health benefits for doing so such as minimizing risk of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, hypertension, kidney stones and the sole cause of atherosclerosis & childhood obesity. The type 2 diabetes is reducing our lifespan by about 20 years.

Cowspiracy.com
Biblelife.org
Nutritionfacts.org
Startingstrength.com

Vegan diet: Eatrightpro.org files/practice/position and practice papers/position papers/vegetarian-diet.ashx
Diet and risk of Iron deficiency: Ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Vitamin K: Veganhealth.org
Problem associated with Paleo-Diet argument: Nutritionfacts.org
Myths about the "balanced-diet": Biblelife.org
Should Vegans Take DHA to Preserve Brain Function: Nutritionfacts.org
Position of the Academy of Nutrition and
Dietetics: Vegetarian Diets -
Eatrightpro.org files/practice/position and practice papers/position papers/vegetarian-diet.ashx

Avoid Soda & Aspartame: Moddb.com

Avoid Sugar: Healthylife-healthyplanet.com

Avoid Trans fat: Atkins.com

Books:
How Not to Die
The Detox Miracle Sourcebook
Convict Conditioning
NeanderThin, by Ray Audette
Life Without Bread, by Dr. Lutz
Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston A. Price