The Future of Christians of ModDB Thread - Christians of Moddb

Due to recent events I've decided to see how the members of Christians of ModDB would like to see it run. So go ahead and cast a vote!

Detailed description of each option:

A) Christians of ModDB remains free and open to all.
Basically the group as it stands right now. There may be occasion controversy when people with other beliefs (primarily Atheists or Anti-theists) come over and attempt to discredit, debunk, or disrespect our beliefs. This gives the Christians here the opportunity to stretch their religious muscles a bit by defending their beliefs in a mature and responsible way. If the discussion turns to trolling it's advised that you turn the other cheek until an admin can delete the troll posts.

B) Christians of ModDB becomes a private (apply to join) group
In this scenario the group becomes private. People won't be able to wander in here and browse around at the content that is posted. They can apply to join the group and if accepted then they are able to, but they won't be able to see what the group is like beforehand. This could discourage a lot of new members from joining, but it would also keep a lot of the trolls and people with other beliefs out. There would unfortunately be much less discussion and activity on the group though.

C) Christians of ModDB remains a public group but any post against Christianity is deleted.
Essentially Christians of ModDB stays as is but the admin will start to censor every post, or comment that is attacking, challenging, or trying to debunk Christianity. Essentially MattmanDude would become an Imperial Inquisitor from WH40K. (I heard there was HERESY and I came as fast as I could)!

D) Christians of ModDB goes under total lockdown. Atheists are kicked and new members need invites.
We become a cult society of peaceful hunter-gatherers and ultra-nationalists who are extremely xenophobic towards outsiders, and people of differing belief systems. Essentially instead of just having an Inquisitor around we become the full blown Imperium of Man. Heck we'd basically be Holy Terra.

For the record I just want this group to be private to prevent anymore trolling. So I picked B.

I don't want the members being baited into anymore confrontations. The issue isn't having good controversy. It's that the people who come over aren't coming for controversy, their coming to start trouble like apone or roadkill. You don't see the sensible atheists coming over to talk with us, that's partly because they know better. The only ones who come to talk with us are the ones looking for a fight. Either that or they just like to snoop our pages.

If you desire to see the group remain open I won't hold it against you guys, but don't expect the loss of Knight to be the last incident here as long as it's open.

Adding more moderators to this group could help alleviate the situation. Many times when something bad happens here Matt is away at the moment and we often need someone else there to diffuse the situation on the spot before it escalates.

On a sidenote, it's nice to see the forum's here active again.

As awesome as the idea of WH40K in real life sounds, I can't help but think we're all overreacting a little bit to the situation. What he had was one troll make his rounds on our group page, and one of our more impetuous members make a reply. Both of them ended up getting banned because the situation got out of hand.

Okay, so who's fault is it? Is it the fault of the Atheist Group, who's members allegedly used to troll our group frequently? Or is it the fault of the Christian Group, who's members also allegedly used to troll their group frequently?

No, and no. The fault does lie with anyone's ideology, the fault does not lie any group, the fault lies with two high-strung internet users who allowed themselves to get far too emotionally invested in an argument with somebody that they'll most likely never see in real life. Seriously people, I think we're actually going to be having a lot less trolling going around with the way things currently are. As interesting a character as Knight was, he was also one of our group's more provocative characters, and he could get a little emotionally carried away in his debates. And of course, none need mention just how much of an utter ass CureOptimism could be in his online conversations. If these two were unable to manage their emotional difficulties online, perhaps some time in the real world will help them do that, Just because this a website does not mean people should be allowed to lose their cool whenever they wish.

In summary, I don't think it's the status of our group that will determine if we have anymore trolls. We tried locking down the group before, and conflict found a way in. What will determine our group's future is not some censorship protocol, but rather just how reasonable and respectful of each other people are willing to be. If they aren't willing to do that, then they never belonged in our group anyway, and maybe the ban hammer is what suits them.

As expected, I will select Option A, and I strongly recommend that others do the same. If we are going to throw out the whole idea of having an open group for all to take part in simply because of two peoples' failure to keep their emotions in check, doesn't that discredit all the rest of us? Just because they failed, doesn't mean we will. Cmon people, we're better than this.

Edited by: Baron Brosephus

@Crazyoldteenager

We can be as respectful as ever to other's who come here, but that doesn't mean people's buttons won't be pushed and the situation won't get out of hand. Human nature prevails in situations we'd otherwise not like to acknowledge. And there need to be appropriate counters in place for it.

As an alternative, why doesn't Matt add more moderators to this group? By the time Matt gets back online so much happens and so little can be done about it by then. And I'm not accusing Matt of incompetence, but he does have a life other than this, and there need to be people who can step in for him when he's out for a time. It's either that or option B for me. Either this group acquires a better overwatch or we should just privatize it.

Edited by: Mike Pence

I like that idea...if we were to have more moderators in the group, I think a lot of the trolling problems would stop.

@Always Faithful

You've been promoted.

Oh boy.

Alright, I'll do my job sir to the fullest of my capabilities. Until I get killed or someone better is found.

Best to keep an eye out for any other potential moderators in the future. The back up is appreciated.

Edited by: Mike Pence

I voted for "Christians of ModDB remains a public group but any post against Christianity is deleted" since I think that's the best option in both allowing for the continued growth of this community and shutting it off from the atheist trolls. There's enough venom about Christianity on the web for it to be continued to be allowed here. I don't know who the moderators of this group are but they've done a pretty crap job in keeping this group clean if you ask me, although none of this effects me anyway since I don't post here but I have lurked and I have seen (and heard of) the trouble with the atheist group. I don't think KnightofEquulei or any other member from this group is to fault here, I have only ever seen this group reply in kind to the atheists.

CrazyOldTeenager, I think you're taking this site a bit too seriously and that you're somewhat ignorant to the online atheist community and their beliefs and ultimate goal. "A group for those without religion, as well as those who oppose it." that is the description of the Atheists, Agnostics, and Anti-theists of ModDB group and one little look at their page tells me that they are all intolerant morons looking for trouble against religious people.

This isn't anything I haven't seen before. Go on YouTube, Facebook, Yahoo, Google+ (or any other online community) and atheists and their different groups are always starting trouble in the Christian groups. So no, I don't think it's right to say "the fault does not lie in any group" when one group is a group characterized by its hatred of religion with its brain-washed members coming here provoking users into responding. These guys seem no different to the no life atheist trolls on YouTube: they live to preach their atheism.

Always Faithful seems to be the only Christian here with the fortitude to stand up to the claims of atheism. I get that the rest of you are the meek mainstream Christians (which isn't bad in itself but meek Christianity can't defend itself and in this day and age of scepticism we need to defend ourselves) who haven't the conviction to defend their faith. Or maybe you simply cannot comprehend that religion means a lot to some people so when you attack it, you're attacking something dear to that person.

Christianity would have died with your attitudes. Please understand that I'm not trying to offend you but I think you guys need to drop your ignorance that we can civilly discuss our beliefs with these type of atheists who are completely intolerant and bigoted towards religion and who have genuinely been brain-washed to believe that atheism is correct.

I have seen comments in this group before left by some of you, complaining that Christianity shouldn't be defended and that atheism shouldn't be attacked because it can provoke our all so sensitive emotional atheist "friends" but just remember these verses from The Bible about the defence of Christianity:

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." ~ 1 Peter 3:15

"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ." ~ 2 Corinthians 10:5

As Christians, if you are genuine in your faith, then you shouldn't fear rebuking or "destroying" any argument from an opposing viewpoint lest of course you don't believe in Christianity at all and are the new "liberal Christians" that have risen up in the past few years preaching all manner of crap about everyone getting to heaven even if they be murderers who haven't repented.

But CrazyOldTeenager, if you're okay with constantly being vilified, mocked and bashed by atheists because you haven't got the conviction or guts to stand up for what you believe then why do you call yourself Christian? It's sad that Christians have gotten to this stage where they're too scared to respond to arguments proposed against Christianity because they don't want to "offend" its critics or perhaps some of you are not genuine Christians at all? This seems to be a new trend online where you get people pretending to be Christians to give us real Christians a bad name.

As it goes, I don't think this group is for me so this will probably be my first and last post here but I wish your community all the best.

God Bless.

Edited by: Junipar

Whether or not their group the atheist group is filled with tolerant morons is irrelevant to the discussion. Yes, I also get angry when I see the kind of things they write about, and just how hypocritical their group is. But that doesn't mean I can allow myself to do what they do, that doesn't mean I should stoop to their level. Furthermore, that does not change the fact that they have a right to their opinions, as do we. So long as we can manage to not annoy each other on a website that's actually based around GAMING (If you're looking for a peaceful religious support group, ModDB's probably not the place for you. Try Skype groups.), I'd say we're doing a pretty good job.

Yes, I know that there are radical atheists who are driven by their hatred and disgust for religion. Furthermore, I know just how easy it is to hate them because I once hated them too. But here's the question you've gotta ask yourself: how did they get that way? Were they just born with a hatred of religion? Or did they perhaps witness or experience some act so repulsive done in the name of religion that they learned to hate it? Christianity is not about setting yourself up on an island and "defending" your faith when the only true barrier is pride and ignorance, it's about living the kind of life of acceptance and understanding Jesus would have lived. You say that the atheists have no tolerance: in that case, how come we're even having this discussion? How come we're having to decide whether or not to delete any comment that goes against what we believe in? Is that really the definition of "tolerance"?

Finally, Christianity is something that has been under attack for centuries. Enemies on both the outside and inside have attempted to either destroy the values of Christianity. From the extermination campaigns and grisly executions by the Roman government to the corruption and politicization of Christianity by medieval churches, the core principles of Christianity have always been under fire. Yet despite all that, Christianity has survived. God has moved throughout this world, and not just through Christians, but through Muslims, Buddhists, Judaists, Sikhs, Taoists, Confucianists, Hindus, and more. God is not something that can be destroyed through mere criticism and butthurt comments. Do you really think that God needs internet warriors to keep His reputation clean? If God really is as powerful as we believe, then I'd say defending God's reputation from butthurt critics with no life is not our greatest priority.

Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.

- Gamaliel, at the trial of the disciples.

Matt, if you deem this too off-topic feel free to delete this post. I am simply attempting to clarify an issue that others might easily misunderstand.

Edited by: Baron Brosephus

Both of you, calm down.

There are times you must defend what it is you believe and times you must step away.
Each situation requires judgements that can only be given when the situation is at hand.

If an atheist comes over here saying things that are completely wrong about Christ and what it is we believe than we are likely to correct that individual. If they show complete disrespect and refuse to be reasonable, then their post as well as the thread will be deleted. Again, every post requires certain judgements and their is no clear cut cookie cutter way to handle this.

Just remember, we stand up for what it is we believe. But where we need to be careful is where it could stoop us down to their level. The atheists group may be hypocritical trolls, but I am not fond of the idea of us being the hypocrites as well. Disicpline people. When they strike, respond clearly, and responsibly. When they decide to play dirty, do not give them the time of day. Especially when notifying the Moderators could resolve the situation quickly and cleanly if given the chance.

Ive been givin moderator status here, however, I would like to see at least 1 more mod here. So far it's just me and Matt.

Edited by: Mike Pence

@Junipar

All I ever said was that we should allow free debate and not be bigoted against the Atheists as some of them are bigoted against us.

Also there's no reason to feed a troll when he comes here and insults religion specifically with the purpose of getting a response.

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:39

I agree with Matt on this.

Just remember though that most atheists who come here are usually trolls. You must be careful not to let them drag you into a pit like they did Knight.

But don't think this means they can come over and troll us back to God. This is one of the reasons I supported the idea of more moderators and changed my mind about privatizing the group. This is basically like option C, except we have more than one inquisitor running around watching for heretics causing trouble. The group hasn't really changed except for now we have increased internal security.

Basically, we just need people on station to handle these scenarios on the spot when they occur. Flame war silenced, crisis averted, well done gentlemen.

Edited by: Mike Pence

If Matt and Always Faithful agree, I could work as a moderator. I'm on vacation anyways, so if something comes up I could be on hand.

Alright. Your competent and respectful so I'm for it.

Just gotta wait for Matt to come back and give his input.

Feels greats seeing the forums here active again...

Alright you're in then.

Both you keep in mind though... deleting any image or comment (unless it's just an outright attack) is a last resort only. We don't want everything on here to be heavily censored if we can avoid it.

Okay I tried to give you mod privileges but that is quite difficult seeing as you aren't in the group.

Well it is interesting reading through all this.

I don't think I got carried away in my debates at all, I'm normally used to discussing things on YouTube or Reddit, the former of which has no moderators and the later of which only has a certain amount of moderation. The debates here have been nothing in comparison to the type of debates (or abuse) you'll see on YouTube or Reddit. Also regardless of what some may think, I don't hate atheists, I simply don't like the ones who simply spew lies and crap about religion and/or religious people because of their hatred for religion (which they justify by a generalization of meeting a few bad religious people, that's not any justification, just idiocy so I don't have to tolerate those views) just as I dislike any religious person who goes around preaching hatred.

In fact most of the debates here and the atheist trolls have done nothing but amuse me as I have repeated time over time again. With CureOptimism, I had no idea where his trolling came from since he started attacking me literally over some image I had posted from two years back so I just thought I'd respond with trolling him in response by his own name-calling for fun. I know, it was immature but I don't take people like him seriously nor did I take the debate group seriously (especially after what it had become).

I admit I deliberately pushed the atheists at times but you can hardly blame me for how sensitive they are whilst posting even more offensive and provocative things than me over the years. As I have to keep repeating, I'm not a good Christian or even a religious Christian, just a Christian in belief and I do enjoy winding hypocrites up. CureOptimism was just another unfortunate victim.

But seeing as people in this group made a big deal over what happened, I decided to comply with you guys and became more considerate of the group. Also to quote myself from before, I realized that nothing came of the debating here or stirring up trouble, albeit probably later than I should have realized but better late than never right? Those that will listen will listen and those that just want to flame, hate or attack Christianity mindlessly will continue to do so regardless of what we do. Also the moderation here seems to be better too what with the group having more mods now, so now even the trolls are deleted within minutes so even if I wanted to have fun with them, you guys would make quick work of their comments!

I apologise if I've offended anyone here. I respect you guys, even if I do disagree with you on things at times. As I said before, this group is one of the best Christian groups I've been a part of, its members truly being diverse and tolerant of each other's views and I like that.

Still, I'm glad something good came of all this. I've lurked within the Christian group for months since and apart from one or two troll comments (which are deleted rather quickly) I haven't seen any trolling on the scale of trolling that plagued us once in the past.

Edited by: KnightofEquulei

Youtube is a living breathing free for all.

The trolls run wild and free throughout the lands, viciously tearing apart any poor soul who happens to enter into their feeding grounds.

Colonel wrote:

Youtube is a living breathing free for all.

The trolls run wild and free throughout the lands, viciously tearing apart any poor soul who happens to enter into their feeding grounds.

Some debates could be had there in the past but now the entire comment section is just pure cancer. I stopped with commenting on anything there many years ago but I used it as a reference to say, the atheists here are pretty bad but the YouTube ones are worst and from them, I've seen every single insult under the sun. Some guy even made some sexual comments about Mary once and I replied with "heard it before mate, keep trying" because by that point I had seen and heard it all.

Religious debates aren't just bad on YouTube but so is anything relating to any god damn subject. Gaming, music, sports, pranks, animation, tv shows you name it. I try to not view the comment section especially concerning games but sometimes I can't resist and often just see moaning of all sorts. So many gamers (at least on YouTube) seem to be entitled whiners nowadays. The Witcher 3 is a gorgeous game but I remember one of the trailers on YouTube was filled with people moaning about it being downgraded and saying the graphics looked crap.

Don't get me started on the sexism and racism since every video seems to be filled with it. Unfortunately Google seem to have their heads stuck up their asses and still haven't decided to implement technology to root out all the abusers and their language, in fact it's easier than ever to abuse and harass people now what with the ability to have infinite accounts linked to one Google account. Blocked by someone? No problem, quickly create a new account, easier as 1, 2, 3 and go back to trolling someone. I've seen it in the comments so many times.

I even tested the moderation once, I made an account, posted a explicit racist message saying something along the lines of "all black people should be killed" reported it to Google and later got a reply back saying "our staff reviewed it and decided it didn't breach our ToS" wow I thought. (Also from what I've heard, the flagging of content seems often to be rather down to chance or flagging campaigns, if a video is flagged enough times by enough people, it'll be removed regardless of whether it's breached the ToS).

Depends where you go to comment, for me I found some good instances to debate when talking about games and so forth.

Also on what chat sections you go on, the people, and the video in question your on. But serious topics like faith, much difficult.

Edited by: Mike Pence