Holocaust Denial Thread

I've been seeing more and more in newspapers and other new sources about the people who are denying the Holocaust in WW2. I personally think this is totally Bullshit, there is so much evidence showing that this is in fact true. Denying one of the world's largest genocides seems immposible to me. Can't find any good news sources at the moment, but heres a good wiki page about it.

Link

Discuss!

Edited by: Sallycin

This is actually about the Armenian genocide. But it's still relevant...

System wrote: Elimination

Why, Die Walk Down

A whole race Genocide,
Taken away all of our pride,
A whole race Genocide,
Taken away, Watch Them all fall down.

Revolution, the only solution,
The armed response of an entire nation,
Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.

Recognition, Restoration, Reparation,
Recognition, Restoration, Reparation,
Watch them all fall down.

Revolution, the only solution,
The armed response of an entire nation,
Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.

The plan was mastered and called Genocide,
(Never want to see you around)
Took all the children and then we died,
(Never want to see you around)
The few that remained were never found,
(Never want to see you around)
All in a system of Down......
Down.....Down.......Down........Walk Down...........

Watch them all fall down,
Revolution, the only solution,
The armed response of an entire nation,
Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.

The plan was mastered and called Genocide
(Never want to see you around)
Took all the children and then we died,
(Never want to see you around)
The few that remained were never found,
(Never want to see you around)
All in a system , Down~

personally I dont buy any of it. I'm open to it as a possibility because I think the second you say "I 100% believe that 'this' is the way it is" you stop being capable of balanced, argument based thought and simpley become another pawn to the agenda of a particular ideology.

I'm not particularly well read up on the subject so im not going to pretend i know everything, but alot of this seems to relate to the (in my opinion completely ficticious and unlike other secret societys, without even a bare shred of evidence) organisation of ZOG. As far as im concerned its just another area of elitist supremacism heald by one cultural/social aspect against another.

In this country particularly i've seen this case bought up by a political party (well, the only people who actually refer them to a political party are painfully ignorant, braindead shittards who know nothing about what they're actually about and where they come from) called the BNP. I dunno i'm not really in the best frame of mind (ie: feckin tired! ) to make an objective comment on this. Personally I think there are far more important matters relevant to the development of society and this is just another example of : 'these people' are worse than 'our people', so join us and our cause. We all bleed the same either way don't we?

It's a difficult issue. Being from Germany I know what its like growing up with our terrible history and its impossible to deny the holocaust when you have been fed with images, read all the books in class, visited concentration camp sites or museums. You get a feeling for how dangerous racism is, but somehow there is too much of it in any country I visited, yet.
I think racism will never be rooted out and denying the holocaust will always be part of it. When I was younger I thought the old people would just all die someday and we'd be rid of racism forever. Doesn't seem likely to me now...
The best book I ever read on the Nazi-years is "Mephisto" written by Klaus Mann. There is also a film from the eighties, if you can't bother reading the book. It won't help against denyials of holocaust, but it will help you understand how difficult it was to oppose to the Nazi movement and it shows how easily even intelligent people can be lured into a political system that delivers dead on a worldwide scale.
I think anyone denying the holocaust must have political interest only and no interest whatsoever in telling the truth. This is the same thing that made Nationalsocialism a great success - its just propaganda.

Edited by: SinKing

pretty much hit the nail right on the head there

Irna.ir

TBH, I think what they are saying makes perfect sense, even if its portrayed in a somewhat insensitive manner, it is no different than most western news stories on the genocides in Africa, China, the West Indians.. the list goes on.

its a criminal offense in some countries to attempt to deny the holocaust, but I don't think thats whats being said.

'mixing some truth with a whole lot of lies'

I have no doubt that Germany embarked on large scale executions, and these terrible crimes way heavy in everyones hearts, but there is DEFINITELY some sort of bias here, as pointed out above, genocide is nothing new, but there is a big difference made by 'the west' between genocide and the 'systematic execution of 6 million of one race', All the conference wants is actual 'proof' that this difference exists.

As a history student <history student mode> it seems ridiculous to deny things like this. I've seen the camps and they seemed real enough to me. Yeah people can argue they were faked or what not, but I honestly dont think you could fake something like that.

My responses in an unstructured and probably unreadable lump:
The problem really is that if you criminalise it you really just give the idiots who spout this kind've crap some kind of legitimacy. They can argue that the fact its illegal in a democracy to deny the hollocaust (freedom of speech) proves there must be something to hide. Personally I dont have a problem with just ignoring these people, although the danger is that people who don't have much historical understanding might be taken in by it. This all is also unhelped by the relationship between Israel and America, which at least from my perspective seems to fuel the view of a zionist consipracy, and prefferential treatment for the Jewish race which is yet more absolute rubbish. The only prefferential treatment of Jews seems to be related to votes and campaign contributions.

Totally off the topic from this but I read an intresting thing (i think it was a Primo Levi book) where this German women was saying "all Germans felt shame for the war, but far more than admitted it only felt shame only because they lost".

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I agree with DrZais

Even concentration camps are nothing new. The first ones were build by the British in Southafrica. And that was several hundred years ago. Slavery was practiced by arabs long before the dutch picked it up and shipped slaveloads to America. Much depends on the state of a society and the dominant social paradigm. Even the most terrible crimes can be justified by using utilitarian thinking modes. And that's what the Nazis did. They made a big washup of philosophy ranging from Mills Utilitarism to Nietzsches Universe without god and Darwins Survival of the fittest. Mix and blend with a dose of Mythology and fancy suits and you got national socialism. Even the expression itself is a fake, because there never was any socialism in Nazidom. Just giving the crowd what the crowd cheers for.
These myths are gonna hold. Be it about denying the holocaust or saying that Hitler build the first freeway and was vegetarian. Its all true lies, because none of them are what they look like. Hitler building freeways wasn't meant to make cars travel faster, it was meant for transporting troops. He was vegetarian, because he was obsessed with many things and had disgust for many more; it wasn't out of care for animals.
NOW - that's all suspicion, but the holocaust has been proved in so many documents and there is absolutely no reason to deny it, because luckily there were survivors who told their stories.
What I personally think is that german soldiers cannot have been as dark and evil as they are depicted in the movies. I'm sure there was compassion and honesty left in some people. So I can understand when people don't want to look at their grandparents as mindless devils. They were overruled - and participated - in a movement so far from human commonsense that they can't be forgiven. Noone should ever deny the holocaust, but I wish films wouldn't paint it all black and white. There were oppressor and surpressed and naturally you feel compassion for the victims, but in the same situation, who would rather change sides and be shot immediately than living on in relative security? I hate being the devils advocate, because I often thought I wouldn't have bowed to the regime in those days. But I have seen proof and psychological experiments on the role of victim and offender and human reactions are pretty generic in this aspect.
The only thing we can really do is watch carefully for signs of a ressurection of Nazidom. I don't understand why, but there is a growing number of adolescents here who turn towards Neo-Naziism. They will beg for any denial of the holocaust and cheer frantically at anything connected to it. In my opinion all so-called democratic, but right-wing parties should be forbidden. That would kill the forza italia, it would end the FPÖ in Austria and the FPD in Germany. Denmark and Italy had a rightwind parliament, Austria had strong rightwing forces in paliament, too. But now all European States have a democratic system which prevents one party from getting total power and most often it shows that the rightwing paries don't have that much to offer once they are voted into parliament.
So maybe my ban of rightwing parties wouldn't be right, but I think in our liberal times any party calling itself democratic should resign from hatred and fear and turn towards helping all citizens and not only those they deem worthy; that's undemocratic!

Long post, but if you have gotten into my style by now, you will know that reading only the last paragraph is sufficient...

Edited by (in order): SinKing, SinKing, SinKing, SinKing, SinKing

it seems ridiculous to deny things like this. I've seen the camps and they seemed real enough to me.

if you criminalise it you really just give the idiots who spout this kind've crap some kind of legitimacy

These are more or less my points.

1. They are not saying the camps did not exist (which is what we are being told - Holocaust DENIAL), they do want proof that the actual event is not heavily exaggerated for alternate ends.
2. Given the large amounts of lies I have seen propagated when it comes to Israel, Palestine and WWII in general, they have a significant 'legitamacy' and trying to squash discussion, In my book at least, goes to show exactly the things that we are manipulated with.

from a devils advocate POV, there is significant evidence that the great unwashed need manipulating and directing, after all, they are all stupid consumers.

Systematic killing of 1 million people in Rwanda is more than enough for me to call an attempt at genocide there. 6 million does nothing to stir my emotions further, that is still a genocide. If there were ten of a people and nine were slain by hatred for their ethnicity, then that is still a genocide.

Having known people who had to fight through these camps, having known people who knew people who were in these camps, the fact of the matter is citing 1-6 million is unnecessary to win any more sympathy from the West. If over-stated, that is because of the chaos of the era and the sheer destruction caused there, the genocide in Rwanda has reports as low as 600,000 and as high as 1.4million, and there was not an actual war occurring there.

Let the number be disputed however, because the Million Man March is disputed, and most Genocides are, the Battle of Thermopylae is, we don't even have our own numbers straight in most incidents. If you want the systematic destruction of a race of people, done in thousands, are you that concerned with keeping records, and if explosions, fires, etc., are occurring, are you saving them with much concern? All of them are material records, nothing digital.

The difficulty of their argument, and why they should not be taken in the serious manner some of you seem to be giving them, is that they want to remove a "Zionist conspiracy," not to better equate the facts with those they are intolerant of. If there is no Zionist plot, then what group is going to bring forth this full information on what occurred? Did everyone else keep records of how many were killed? As though the Jews are plotting together for Western sympathy and keeping the rest of us out of the loop. They get their "facts" of a Zionist plot by no one coming forward even without a Zionist plot.

Many of those names are the same who question if the Holocaust even occurred enough to be given such a line. I don't see any discussion ever given credence to Israel because its general populace has connections with Jews who were eradicated during the Holocaust. You can't give sympathy to America because of 9/11. Israel has nuclear weapons, they are armed and prepared, they do not deserve sympathy. There is no cause to let someone with a vengeful streak and violence in their eyes do harm to another merely because harm was done to them.

These people are still in denial because the cartoon of Muhammed caused an outrage but their art contest for a depiction of the Holocaust raised no one's hackles. Using it to instigate battles from either side should not be tolerated, and anyone who says that what occurred there was not a tragedy that we should not forget is inhuman one way or another. As we cannot forget that what has occurred in 9/11 is a tragedy, or what has occurred in Iraq, especially to the civilians, is a tragedy.

I think if you want to be really anal about it even the killing of a single person because of their ethnicity is genocide, in the same way that killing a child is infanticide, a king regicide etc. Its really only over the last fifty years that the word has come to be applied to ethnic cleansing, massive often state sanctioned programs of extermination. Back in the day it was just a good old fashioned massacre, or a pogrom if you're a rooskie.

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civilians are vermin, let them burn! I want cheap oil!

heh, anyway, the whole Zionist plot is nonsense.

The debtor is always more or less under obligations to the creditor
Britain owns America
America owns Israel
EDIT:the Jews own Britain

Israel does our dirty work, has done for years, will do for years, when it all goes wrong they'll be the first to take our fall.

Edited by: mSparks

The Holocaust did happen and there is much evidence to support that. Those fools that don't believe it are weak minded.

mSparks wrote:
Israel does our dirty work, has done for years, will do for years, when it all goes wrong they'll be the first to take our fall.

So far as I'm aware Israel has only ever done its own dirty work, almost to the point of isolationism.

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Why are Jews at the 'Holocaust denial' conference?(bbc.co.uk)

EDIT:Isreal is THE channel for western interests in eastern assets, especially blood diamonds and oil, they keep the natives in check so we can rape their countries.

Edited by: mSparks

mSparks wrote: Britain owns America
America owns Israel
EDIT:the Jews own Britain

Elaborate please.

Jiffy_No0b wrote:

mSparks wrote: Britain owns America
America owns Israel
EDIT:the Jews own Britain

Elaborate please.

Britain owns America

who do you think actually owns their railways (at least until recently), the federal reserve, and bankrolled all the state infrastructure. This did not change (at least beyond face value), even after the revolution, we just lost the power to tax them to the hilt for all their transactions, we still skim the cent in every dollar.

America Owns Israel:

from: Cia.gov

Roughly half of the government's external debt ($75.55 billion (2005 est.)) is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid.

The Jews own Britain - guess who owns the most of our (productive) land?

The hardest one i'm currently working on is several suggestions of Yakuza involvement in ownership of the HSBC bank (largest by world wide assets)

The Russians are also starting an imperial crusade (mostly in the middle east and Egypt), but as yet they have been largely rubbish at leveraging their extreme resources, mostly because we did such a good job of breaking their backs.

Its all a tangled web of deception, murder and extortion, anyone who thinks it ended in the 19th century is blinded by the fact that they got better at PR.

Britain does not own America at all. mSparks stop trying to be intellectual because it's getting you nowhere and you sound silly. I'm also pretty sure that America does not own Israel.

Anyway...religion really is causing a lot of problems nowadays, huh? What's up with that!?

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Edited by (in order): Walrus9, Walrus9, Walrus9

the moon landings are fake!

TKAzA wrote: the moon landings are fake!

that i couldn't tell you about because i'm not to informed on that subject, nor do i feel like doing research on it

Walrus9 wrote:

TKAzA wrote: the moon landings are fake!

that i couldn't tell you about because i'm not to informed on that subject, nor do i feel like doing research on it

Its true, I was there I saw the whole thing

And I was on the grassy knoll.

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no no no, the biggest conspiracy is Anti gravity... Moonlandings pictures are fake, doesn't mean the landing was.

Anti-gravity is real, but you can NEVER have it, what would the word be like if it was a $5 30 minate trip for bin ladin to go from Afganistan to N.K.

just because your paranoid doesn't mean there not out to get you.

All this is fairly pointless though, because infomation is only as good as the use you can put it too. I seriously doubt that whatever comes out of this conference will do anything to change our policy towards the Israeli state, as proved by Lebonnen they are our little b###h, telling us they are involved in a conspiracy will do nothing but tell the people involved in holding them there what they already know.

I've been saying this for years, if the Israeli's had any sense they would sack their government, appease the Palestinians, and work with their neighbours to build a strong cohesive 'village', as long as we hold them over a finacial barrel they will continue to do our bidding, and put themselves on the front line for us.

Edited by: mSparks

you can try to deny it but it doesnt change the fact that it happened.
Ridiculous

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