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Increased the skills of the tangos to make them more accurate and observant.

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Terrorist Realism Mod V4
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Helleluia
Helleluia

Thank you for your continuous efforts in this mod. I certainly like the idea of skill classes to the tangos. However, I sadly maintain my position in that the tangos are so bad in average that it takes away the fun of the game. I very easily cleared the first two mission (oil refinery and alpine village) by myself and only with a pistol, while almost on constant running. And I'm no John Wayne or 007. I once again relived the scene were I stood perfectly still before up to three tangos armed with automatic rifles, shotguns and pistol at no more than 15 meters and they only managed to wound me (yellow). And that, only after reloading 2-3 times. The final Rambo standoff boss scene from UHF comes to mind. :-) My 2 cents.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

The tangos not being too good was actually deliberate, at least for the first missions, as those tangos aren't hardened soldiers, although after some plays their skill will be improved. And technically accuracy in real life is pretty poor, although considering that this is R6, i will improve their skill

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Helleluia
Helleluia

You may well have a point about real life accuracy. I personally couldn't vouch for that as the closest I've ever come to this sort of experience is paintball and accuracy is notoriously bad at anything but 20m in that game, afaik. But still, I usually get my target after 1-2 registration shots within that distance in paintball. That aside, in R6, I'm only comparing my chances of getting hit by the tangos versus hitting the tangos and I simply find it unfair that me - as well as the other members of my team - are so quick and accurate, whereas the tangos are as unresponsive and inaccurate. Also, I think the tangos should be somewhat more aware and expectant of an assault as most scenarios are usually high stress standoff situations and the sound of the first shot should pretty much sound the general alarm. I certainly appreciate the added value of using silenced weapons, specially the HK MP5 SD, as the dynamic of a mission is SO much different; As long as you succeed in preventing the tangos from reacting. Once detected by a tango I'm expecting it to mostly fire an inaccurate reaction shot - relative to distance that is - which goes improving after each successive shots. Maybe have them switch firing modes from full auto to burst or even semi after a while or even maybe have them change their stance, if at all possible. As it is, tangos simply look satisfied to spray bullets all around me at "la Pulp Fiction" while going through their reloads without any consideration to improving their odds. Btw, I always play vanilla RVS 2.0 at veteran level and it's perfect for me, other than the laser accuracy of the tangos on the initial shot. Otherwise, I usually play my campaigns ironman style and I like the challenge of having to compensate for the loss of a valuable operator. Especially if the casualty is the direct result of a bad call from myself. It's an incentive to better my skills.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

To be fair, making the tangos more aware could be possible if I amde the weapon's noise radius bigger. That requieres source code modding which I can do, but only works on the base game weapons. As for the accuracy, I can alter the weapons stats to make them slower on the target, at least to more realistic levels, I mean I'm pretty sure an MP5K is faster on the target than an M4. The tangos fire modes can be changed, maybe in the same fashion as the Malleus AI mod, but I'm no real expert on Unreal script, that may take sometime. Actually it would be cool to have them use different rates of fire depending on the enemy a la Door Kickers. There are two enemy classes with AKs, one uses it with single shot for precision, the other class goes full auto. Also, if I change the noise radius I have to change the effectivness of suppressors, how the M82A1 can be quietted is beyond me.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

Hey, I've noticed that you play the campaigns "ironman style". I usually do this too, but usually is "Observer mode only, If mission fails restart campaign". Something I've noticed is that, if an operative goes down, incapacitated or dead, that person is out forever. It would be better if incaped operatives recover after some missions, but due to coding this doesn't happen.

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Helleluia
Helleluia

As I was saying on my previous reply below:

"... to have to manually take over the AI teams successively on thigh spots while playing a combined assault mission. I hate to have to do that cause it take me out of character. :-) But that's the price to pay when playing ironman style."

What irritates me even more in the ops AI behavior, is that I usually avoid the grenade (any type) action point because they stand stupidly in front of the door with the cooked grenade and most usually, get shot by a tango guarding the other side of the door when opened and before they even have the time to throw it. You can imagine how quickly ugly it gets when its a frag in a confined corridor... I can only have the AI lean-throw the grenade while carefully planning the angle and distance to the door, when laying the point in the planning phase. But I usually avoid the effort and take over the team just for that phase.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

The grenade throwing while leaning happens in the occassion that the team has enough space to actually stack up on the door, even then they don't do it too much, or at least not enough times in the very important rooms (like hostage rooms). I usually circumvent this problem by having the team use a smoke grenade BEFORE reaching the door, then have them throw the grenade. It works, as long as the team has smoke grenades. Also, I hate changing character too, I prefer to use a single team member for the mission instead of changing teams, specially when I use sniper teams, since I abuse smoke grenades and the thermal scope and the AI can't do that.

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Helleluia
Helleluia

Brilliant idea the suggestion of having the AI throw a smoke grenade prior to entry. Duh! Why haven't I though of that before! :-) As for the issue of abusing the thermal scope with smoke grenades, you could easily fix that by stop doing it. LOL!!! I never consider thermal scopes as I find them to S-F'y. I know they exist. The first time I found out was while watching the movie "Navy Seals"(1990). There's this kick-*** scene where the sniper shoots tangos trough concrete walls using a .50 cal rifle! See here Google.ca

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

Usually the smoke-thermal abusing happens either when there is a sniper or there are a lot of tangos in an open area. But at times the tangos detect me through the smoke when I'm using a loud sniper rifle and shoot through the smoke, but this happens rarely. Also, something I noticed is that the AI never used body armor, despite that in RvS 2.0 some are visibly carring vests. And I decided to address that in Version 5.

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Helleluia
Helleluia

Good idea for V5! While you're at it, could you also explain to me why it systematically takes two shots to down any NPC (tangos or civilians.) At least, almost every time. Shoot any surrendered tango or civilian in the head at point blank range and you'll see what I mean.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

This is kind of a mystery for me too. Basically (the way I understand it) ti goes like this: Any Pawn (Tango, Civilian or Rainbow) has 3 HP. The full HPs mean full health, 2 HPs means wounded, 1 HP means incapacitated and 0 HPs means death (although incapacitation and death are the same for reasons). Depending on how much damage a bullet inflicts and the armor that a pawn has a bullet can remove anything from 0 (no injuries) to 3 (death) HPs. What becomes apparent to me is that some NPCs have 1 or 2 additional HPs depending on said pawns state, surrendered tangos apparently have 2 additional HPs making them requiere 2 shots to incapacitate, whereas hostages have 1 additional HP so an incapacitating shot would injure them. There are some multipliers attached, like a headshot would cause more damage (maybe 1 HP more) and a shot to the extremities causes less (maybe 1 HP less) and armor reduces the energy of the bullet and, with luck, reduces the amount of damage dealth, depending on the round (like on the mod 9mm vs medium armor). It's just a theory, maybe it goes like that, maybe it doesn't, but that theory kind of proves what's happening. Also, V5 is already released as is the weapon mod, which needs some fixing because the freaking P228 with CMAG doesn't change it's accuracy and the MP5SD doesn't have it's Hollow Points (which all weapons now have, or rather SHOULD have).

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Helleluia
Helleluia

Thank you for explaining. I find your line of thought sensible.

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Helleluia
Helleluia

On your comment "I'm pretty sure an MP5K is faster on the target than an M4." I'd expect the recovery and stability stats pertaining to each weapons to portray precisely that. Although I only now wonder if those stats also apply to the AI. The recovery stat in particular brings me to another point. I don't know how it's coded in the game, but I'd expect this stat to be at his worst ALMOST as much when running with the weapon shouldered, as when shouldering it hurriedly. As such, I believe it would be realistic to think that a highly trained swat ops pacing about with its weapon already shouldered - À la swat - would be in a much privileged position when stumbling upon a surprised and respectively less trained tango. IMO, RVS already portraits this well in a sense, as the animation shows the unprepared tango shouldering its weapon. Thus allowing for some precious seconds and laying the strongest argument in favor of silenced guns. My gripe comes with the fact that the game does not seem to account for the time it should then take the enemy to aim. Thus the first shot in this case should probably almost be a miss, especially over distance - Unless, of course, they are descendants of Lucky Luke. I do feel like RVS 2.0 - which includes the Malleus mod - does get much more closer to a "realistic" experience; Especially as it makes the tangos wander/patrol, take cover when shot at or naded and then attempt to flank you. Yet I still find that most of the enemies reaction shots are still too precise, especially at long ranges, notwithstanding snipers which would expectantly always be prepared.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

"I don't know how it's coded in the game, but I'd expect this stat to be at his worst ALMOST as much when running with the weapon shouldered, as when shouldering it hurriedly."

Actually, this and the hip-firing, was one of the reasons why I made this mod. On the game, as long as you have the weapon equipped it is counted as armed and "shouldered". The only problem is that the tangos always have their weapon equipped, so even if a tango was sitting on a chair, his accuracy will be the best posible since he didn't moved. And yes, the stats do affect tangos. If they run, their accuracy does reduce and they have a recovery time, however the reaction time increases their accuracy. On Recruit (at least to me) they are more accurate, as they wait a whole second before firing. On veteran they are slighty less accurate as they have half a second to fire. On Elite their first burst is a bit innaccurate, but anything else is as good as the Rainbow Operatives. In fact, the lower assault skill in my mod was due to the surprise and the time to shoulder the weapon, but assault skill only affects recovery time, not accuracy like in Rogue Spear, which would make my job a lot easier. I would changed their assault skill instead of making new weapon files.

Also, "I'd expect the recovery and stability stats pertaining to each weapons to portray precisely that."
If this is about the weapon mod I'm making this would take some crazy spreadsheet calculation and even more source code editing. Also, I duplicated the sound radius of the weapons, which means that on the first shot, tangos are aware that you are there, and may either rush the location of the shot, or prepare an ambush. Also, I decided to increase the sound radius of the Rifles, since there are no real subsonic rounds to quiet that kind of weapon. And the M82A1 suppressed is almost as loud as a pistol unsuppressed.

Edit: I suppose it can be posible to make it so that whenever the tango is doing an animation (like anything without aiming) they had a big accuracy penalty. That, again, requieres incredible UnrealScript skills which I barely have a grasp on.

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Helleluia
Helleluia

Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the intricate game mechanics and shedding the light on how your mod works. I get a better understanding and appreciation of your work. It also helps in setting the expectations.

When you say "...but assault skill only affects recovery time, not accuracy like in Rogue Spear" aren't recovery and accuracy directly related? If I'm not mistaken, recovery governs the shrinking rate of the aiming reticule and thus represents the aiming precision.

By the way, I like yours ideas about the sound dispersion. I too think that the use of weapons attachments is a bit too liberal on this game. I'm not convinced you really could put a silencer on a Barrett or even a high capacity magazine mag on a Skorpion, IRL.

Keep up the good work! I'll be there to test. :-)

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

Well, I changed the weapons to more realistic levels, accuracy, recoil and recovery. They are better overall but there is a problem. The recovery rating can be almost completely circumvented if the operative holding said weapon has 100 or close in assault skill. I tried some on the training missions an they felt relatively slower, better overall. But those training operatives have 80 in assault. Usually operatives like Ding or Loiselle have so high skill that even heavy rifles like the G3A3 or the M14 snap to max accuracy almost instantly. There most be a way to change that, maybe adjust how the operative skill affects the recovery rating but it will take even more time.

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Helleluia
Helleluia

To be totally honest with you, I believe that having superhuman operatives is not a flaw as such. It greatly compensates for the enemy buffed AI and highlights the fact that operatives really should be much better than tangos IRL. It further makes it unnecessary to have to manually take over the AI teams successively on thigh spots while playing a combined assault mission. I hate to have to do that cause it take me out of character. :-) But that's the price to pay when playing ironman style.

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Jose21crisis Author
Jose21crisis

"aren't recovery and accuracy directly related?"

In a sense, yes. Obviously an operative with 100 in assault will aim faster than an operative with 50 in assault. However, given enough time, the operative with 50 will eventualy have the highest accuracy that the weapon can obtain. The same happens with sniper skill.

"'m not convinced you really could put a silencer on a Barrett"

I'm pretty sure suppressors for the M82A1 exist and are somewhere out there, but even if they are used, they would barely have an effect on the sound, just a couple of decibels. As for the High Capacity mags on some Machine pistols.....well, I'm not so sure about 50 rounds on a Skorpion either.

"Keep up the good work! I'll be there to test. :-)"

And thanks for the support.

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