I'd like to let the MOD community know about the RETRIBUTION freeware game engine. RETRIBUTION is a fun and fairly easy to use engine for making First Person Shooters. It comes with several single player maps, a tutorial, and includes a level editor and modeller. Adding original content (textures, models, sounds, etc..) is simple.The level editor reminds me of a cross between UNREAL and QUAKE type engines. Mappers and Modders should be able to learn it very quickly. In my opinion it's very close to "Pro Level Engines", capable of producing nice looking levels with good gameplay.
You can find out more about it here:
The developer (Andrew Gardner) has made many major updates, including a powerful lighting system and improved editing within the 3D environment.
I have just completed a mod/map for RETRIBUTION called "THE DEPOT" that i think really shows how cool this game engine is. You can find it here at the top of the page.
Download the RETRIBUTION engine and my mod/map "THE DEPOT" and check it out.
Thanks in advance - MitaMAN
Vcatkiller
It seems that a lot of your comments really come down to the content that is available for Cube rather than the fact it is a better engine. Only two of your comments talk about the engine itself. Of course I have to agree that the content available for Cube is better, that is why we are really pushing for more good designers to join our ranks so we play catch up in this area.
Nobody has made any comments about movement to me, other than to complain about jumping, which I've hopefully improved in the next patch.
At least Retribution HAS weapon reloading :P Some Cube weapons have reloading animations I know but they don't serve much purpose. Again, for decent animations we need good model designers, it's not a flaw in the engine.
Cube is great fun and it has some great content available, those are it's strength's I think. But it is also has quite a primitive feel to it. Maybe that is part of the appeal? I don't know. But it is a pain for example, that I have to re-bind keys/mouse buttons before I can play anything and a pain that I have to bind keys instead of having a nice menu option to do it.
The strengths of Retribution I guess are the things it has that are missing from Cube. Where do I start? Lightmaps, variable lightmap quality up to pretty insane levels, no limit on texture size, weapons reload, capability to create completely custom FPS games with no coding (that means weapons, enemies, sounds, textures, models, music, virtually all content), damage decals, weapon projectiles, range of particle effects, model shaders, powerful scripting support, moving objects, dynamic lighting, weather effects, terrain engine capable of miles of scenery (needs some work in the auto-vegetation department), stencil shadows, 3D sound, volumetric fog, etc
I’m sure that MitaMAN can make some comments on how mapping compares between the two engines, I can’t comment except to say the Retribution editor is bound to be more complex than the one for Cube because the engine has so many more capabilities. But after years of use and user feedback it is easy to use once you get out of the 'Cube mind-set’ as MitaMAN put it.
I really did not want my posting of the Retribution engine (and my map/mod) to turn into a "what engine is better battle".
Cube and Retribution are very different from each other, and both have good points and not so good points.
I will not defend or take sides on either engine. I like and use both of them.
All I can say to any mappers looking for something new is to try both of them.
Now go download my map/mod for Retribution and have some FUN killing bad guys.
FUN, that's what mapping and modding are all about.
MitaMAN
Felt like I was playing a cheap HL1 modifcation.
However, with some work that aren't directed towards the engine itself (animaton, sounds, level design, ect.) the game could show it's potential.
Nice effort.
But it looks pretty ****.
Although this is a basic engine, i like the idea of a free engine for modders to mod. So good job and i hope to see the engine advance over time.
i think people will do better on newer engines like source and radiant, this one makes me feel like i would be level designing in the 1990s back when hl one look incredible! and before source.
Yes, I agree that SOURCE and Radiant seems more "up to date", but consider this:
1. SOURCE and Radiant (and the engines they work with) are developed by a large group of people. Retribution is basically a one man development team. I think that's outstanding for a "one man show".
2. You must purchase the games that SOURCE and Radiant use. If you want others to play your mod they must buy the game. Retribution is free.
3. Look at the Croteams SERIOUS engine, they started on their own as a small team and made it "big time". I bet RETRIBUTION could have similar results if enough people mapped for it and created more new game media. It's a fine looking engine when people learn to use it.
4. Many people are still "old skool", look at the following that the original DOOM engine still has.
5. I like working on an "underdog engine", it's fun to be part of something thats developing and growing. I feel the same about the CUBE and SauerBraten engine, also good examples of a "free community project" as opposed to something made by a big company.
Don't get me wrong, I love to play all the big name first person shooters, but i only map/mod for the "underdog engines". I guess I want the "little guys" to get some of the attention they deserve for all that hard work.
Just my opinions - MitaMAN
"4. Many people are still "old skool", look at the following that the original DOOM engine still has. "
Yea... so correct, it is a fact written in stone, this is worth the download, and is very user friendly. (Atleast, from what I have done.)
The latest games on the latest engines are not fun IMHO. It's rare nowadays that I play a game I want to play again and again. I still find myself going back to Doom, Quake and Quake2. For me, and I suspect a lot like me, it seems that the games industry is so busy chasing realism it's forgotten about gameplay. Of course there are some exceptions but I feel like that is the trend. When I play 'The Depot' on this engine I enjoy it and I want to play it again and for me that is the main thing :)
Funnily enough, I agree on the opinion modern games are non-replayable. Not because of the chase for realism, however. I think it's more the fact that the map design/game philosophy has become too linear or "storyline" lead that games have just lost their replay value. You can play Doom, DN3D, Quake, Quake 2 etc and spend ages just looking for secrets. Games these days don't want you to.
Anyways, Cube/Sauerbraten is better than this engine by a mile and a half. Why would we use this one instead? In fact, most of what I've seen makes Quake look really good.
'Anyways, Cube/Sauerbraten is better than this engine by a mile and a half.'
Wonder what makes Cube/Sauerbraten so much better?
There is of course multiplayer support but that is in development for Retribution.
Or maybe it's the availability of decent levels? Cube certainly has more and has done well to attract some very talented designers and artists. That is why we are doing this publicity drive to try to attract more people to explore Retribution and see what it is capable of.
From my experience of playing Cube and playing/using Retribution I have to say that Retribution compares favourably to Cube. Of course Cube is a great engine and has lots of loyal followers and if they say it's better who am I to argue? But I really want to hear why the Cube engine is better 'by a mile and a half' than Retribution :)
Okeydokey, I suppose I asked for it:
-The movement in Cube feels a lot more smooth and natural flowing than that of Retribution's
-The media available with Cube just looks better
-Retribution's weapons don't have the same heft or feel, and the reload anims need work
-Cube maps just seem to have a better flow/design flare to them, whereas Retribution maps just seem underdetailed
-The obvious "Cube map editor", built right in and easier to use than any other editor in existance (Sauerbraten is even easier!)
Of course, I can see how Retribution could be good, given some adjustments and better media (eg sounds, models, textures, etc) and all the above is just purely my opinion, but I just favour Cube more than Retribution.
Of course, there's probably something I'm missing as to why Retribution is so great. Care to enlighten me? I could be missing out on something.
I will try it i guess
Sorry, my opologies. I was just trying to find out what was so good about the engine, because I just couldn't see it. So I was comparing it with another free 3D engine. Just to clarify on the movement thing though before I shut up: yes, the jumping sucks, but it's more than that. The movement just starts and stops, it doesn't accelerate/decelerate. It makes movement feel jerky and artificial. Try moving about in other FPS's to see what I mean, then move around in Retribution again.
MitaMAN - I can't get that map of yours to work. It loads alright, but when I select new game it gives me an "error in global data." What gives?
I'm sorry too :) I get this all the time about Cube being better and it annoys me because I know the potential of what I've done but I don't have the skill as a designer or artist to show it properly :S
With the movement, I understand what you mean now. In fact there is a deceleration but it was broken in the version you played :S I've fixed it now but it is still very subtle. Maybe I can play with it some more to make it a bit more obvious, I was just trying to make it not feel like the player was running on ice ;)
If you get an "error in global data" error it probably means you didn't install the latest patch? Mitaman's level was produced for version 1.04.4 of the engine ;)
That "error in global data" message is so confusing, so I've just added a extra check to give a more meaningful error ;)
like APG said, i used retribution build 1.04.4 (the latest patch). i had also play tested my map on 3 computers using the same engine build, WinXP, WinME and WIN2000, and it ran fine on all 3 machines.
if it does'nt run on the latest patched engine, i'm sorry, don't know what could be wrong.
is anyone else having trouble running THE DEPOT (assuming anyone actually played it)?
vcatkiller, i must agree with you as far as moving and jumping, it is a bit stiff compared to most other games. i guess i got used to it, i spent approx 4 months working on that map/mod without playing much else.
oh btw, if you do play cube, 5 sp maps in the latest release (08-25-05) are mine. (mpsp1, mpsp2, mpsp3, mpsp4, and mpsp5). hope you enjoy those if you play them.
MitaMAN
Well, I'm stupid. I just applied the latest patch and off it went. More nice levels like "The Depot" and this engine should gain the notriety it deserves. :P
MitaMAN: Yep, mpsp4 in particular. It was like playing a mini map pack. Very nice. You know your level design. :)
Vcatkiller - glad you got to play THE DEPOT and liked it. Glad you also enjoyed some of my CUBE stuff. Have you made anything I can play?
happy holidays! MitaMAN
Nothing terribly releasable, unfortunately. I nearly put out a Saurbraten map at one stage, but it's more a small DM map than a single play. (might get the guts up to throw something up on Quadropolis one of these days...)