Arguments Thread - A SEvils Development Group

This is where you go to yell at each other about our opinions on games. I kindly ask that all conversation about this topic be redirected from my page to here... ALL OF IT!!!

@ The post by Ashix on the one page:

Ashix wrote: Also the conduit was going to be a bad game from the start, remember the bus ride when you showed me the conduit in NP? Remember when I said it looked good but would be screwed because it was on the wii? remember that, I totally called that months ago.

I believe that was very narrow minded of you to say. No console ever automatically constitutes a games fail, whether it be Wii, 360, or PS3... EVER. And I still don't think that the Conduit itself was a bad game, I don't think JamesGrayson ever even said it was a bad game. The fact remains that none of us have even played The Conduit, so I don't know why we're sitting here arguing about it.

Oh, and JamesGrayson... WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU NEVER PLAYED OCARINA OF TIME!!??!!
I thought everybody played that game... ah well, you should still play it.

Edited by: Xos100

Even I played Ocarina of Time. Any way Industry isn't a democracy its an industry they are 2 completely different things.
Also Its not the fact that the conduit was on the wii that made it a fail it was that the wii's controls normally suck.

Actually, the controls are supposed to be very good. Part of that I think is because almost every aspect of the game is customizable, button layout, sensitivity, the turning box, even the HUD.

Having customizable controls on a console is good but it kinda says that the dev team doesn't think there's a proper way to play it (*cough* wasd), consoles don't really have that much space for customization of button layouts.

Button layouts are generally not much of a problem. It's when you get look sensitivity like COD2 that you get a problem.

All of the games that I've played that had customizable controls have a default and/or 4 presets and a slot for custom. Most PSP games have customizable controls, the only 360 ones that I've played are Oblivion/Fallout 3, and I think Farcry 2, most only have the 4 presets.

Xos100, I have played Ocarina of Time, I never said I didn't I said if I went by the reviews I would have bought it and many other Zelda games. I played it at friends house (1 hour) and years later on the gamecube on a promo disc (from NP) with it, Majora Mask (even suckier) and 2 demos for Wind Waker (Suckiest). It has never interested me enough to get past the Deku tree beginning and that fairy should go die, NOW!

I said The Conduit was pretty good but nowhere near you and Nathan were saying it was going to be (Ashix and I were right), though Ashix, even the more negative reviews like Gamespot(6.5) like the controls, its the rest of the game that sucks.

Gamespot wrote:

The Good

• Great controls
• Technically impressive visuals.

The Bad

• Monotonous levels
• Respawning enemies and invisible bombs are frustrating and cheap
• Generic art design and story
• Uneven difficulty.

Edited by: JamesGrayson

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE OCARINA OF TIME!!??!! IT HAS TO BE THE SINGLE MOST POPULAR GAME OF ALL TIME!!! I still liked Majora's Mask, and the Wind Waker Demo's are not a good thing to compare against, because you probably had to play the level where you sneak around the fortress, am I right? Aside from that one level, it is probably one of the best games of all time. Love the art style too.

Edited by: Xos100

I never played wind waker cept that one time in Toys R us and that was a long time ago but I thought it would be a good Game and most of the complaints where about the new art style not the game, since I liked the art style the game would probably be good. And I wasn't saying that the controls would always be bad I was saying that the controls are what normally make a wii game crap. Proof, the rayman games are fun, the party part of the sonic game was not, remember that party when we tried both, also the red steel spining was the only major flaw when we played (the balencing issues seemed less obvious).

Red Steel doesn't spin if you KEEP THE CURSOR ON THE SCREEN. That's the way it should be, and that's the way the Conduit probably is too. The reason you spin, is because the sensor can't find what isn't there, namely the cursor, hence you spin in the direction the cursor was last.

What about the most fun game mode where you have to answer the cell phone (the wiimote rings and the speaker gives you individual goals), if you can do that without taking the cursor of the screen I will literally give you a cookie.

COOKIE?!?! . I think a solution that they could have implemented (possibly) would be to make it so that when you answer the phone, all aiming control is frozen until you hang up. That could work...

There's less arguments when sean isn't on

Xos100 wrote: HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE OCARINA OF TIME!!??!! IT HAS TO BE THE SINGLE MOST POPULAR GAME OF ALL TIME!!! I still liked Majora's Mask, and the Wind Waker Demo's are not a good thing to compare against, because you probably had to play the level where you sneak around the fortress, am I right? Aside from that one level, it is probably one of the best games of all time. Love the art style too.

I'm going out on a limb here and say Super Mario 64 is more popular what with out selling Ocarina of Time by over 3 million copies, and then of course there may be a few games that MAY be more popular (Pokemon,FFVII,Pac-Man,Tetris,Super Mario Bros. 1 and 3, Super Mario World, etc) and those all came out before Ocarina of Time now if want more modern games, well that list is a bit TOO big to put here.

There was two demos, each about an hour long. One you had to sail to a fortress and sneak around [sh!t (ps. can we swear here?)] and one that you sailed to an island where you could run around and go into a guys house and break his vases though you had to pay for them. I don't like any of the zelda games because (list here we come!):
A) I already have the Master Sword and the boomrang among other things, I do not want to be told I just found them, AGAIN!
B) I don't like Action-Adventure games
C)Wind Waker only: I don't like cel shaded unless its "realistic" (Crackdown) or for an anime and both of those options have the eyes at a reasonable size!

I actually really like Ocarinas and Twilight Princess (minus the dog parts) graphics.
D)It takes time from playing Mario 64 (Ocarina/Majora)
E)Twilight Princess uses the Wii controls (GCN was dead long when it came out)
F)The Title! Legend of Zelda? Its not called Super Peach 64, all link gets it the occasionally pun, "A Link to the past"* sarcastic laugh*
G)Horrid camera in the N64 Zeldas
H)Story is weak, I understand Mario is really basic but thats the point! There is no "Save the Princess, AS A WEREWOLF!" *Dramatic Music* (Note: This is one of the reasons I don't like Super Mario Sunshine).
I)Its the same damn game with the same damn weapons,item, and usually characters. The only real change is if its 2D or 3D, but that still doesn't change cut grass for monies, but same weapons that you already had from the last game with monies, Do a Barrel-Roll!
J)Excuse Me Princess! Youtube.com There was only 13 episodes yet he managed to say it at least 50 times!
K)Not really a knock against the games but SC2 Link really creeps me out. Zeldawiki.org
L) Youtube.com Youtube.com Nuff said
M)Music looping over and over again (NES) Midishrine.com (Note: Yea the NES wasn't great for Music but the Jumpman managed and he came out earlier Midishrine.com )
N)NAVI! Almost as bad as "Excuse Me Princess!" Youtube.com
O)Oh My Zeldas Guards are useless/idiots/Do there ancestors become stormtroopers? Zeldauniverse.net (Ha ha, "M" for "Music")

15 reasons why I hate (3D ones and Legend of Zelda 2)/don't really like (2D ones) Ocarina of Time and all of the others Zeldas.

EDIT:

Ashix wrote: There's less arguments when sean isn't on

I'm too busy writing my posts, you know the ones that are edited, avoid caps lock, and are more than few sentences short. (Note: Three is a few and this not direct toward you Xos100, well maybe a little. Ha ha ha, loins.*

*This is for all of you Phil Ken Sebben fans (if you have to, youtube "The Best of Phil Ken Sebben")

EDIT2.0: I know its a Wii bit late (Ha ha, "N" For "Navi"!*) but,

Xos100 wrote: No console ever automatically constitutes a games fail, whether it be Wii, 360, or PS3... EVER.]

Virtual Boy, I believe burning retinas counts as failing to be "entertainment" Video.google.ca (unless you are one sick human being like Ashix... just kidding your not human+)

+Not serious

Edited by: JamesGrayson

Granted Super Mario 64 was more popular, but in my opinion OOT was better.
And it looks like I spoke too soon, it appears that I overlooked the Virtual boy, let me rephrase that:

Xos100 wrote: No console ever automatically constitutes a games fail, whether it be Wii, 360, or PS3... EVER, except for the Virtual Boy.

Hmmm... I like that quote so much better, don't you agree?

Xos100 wrote: Granted Super Mario 64 was more popular, but in my opinion OOT was better.

Even with my 15 (well 9 apply to Ocarina, and only 6 are not obviously biased like "I don't like Action Adventure games.") reasons that it sucks?
Hey, I think you need to Listen to Navi, shes telling you to Watch Out. I wonder why? Must be because she wants to surpass Jar Jar in the most annoying side character contest.

"Hey Listen!" is annoying, but it's never really bothered me that much, and is certainly not a reason to hate it. And the music was good in OOT, showing me outdated nes music doesn't prove your point. OOT is still better, nuff said.

Xos100 wrote: "Hey Listen!" is annoying, but it's never really bothered me that much, and is certainly not a reason to hate it. And the music was good in OOT, showing me outdated nes music doesn't prove your point. OOT is still better, nuff said.

Hey Hello Hey Listen Hey Look Hey Listen Hey Watch Out Hey Listen Hello Hey
Techno Rave Edition! Youtube.com
Honestly if Navi wasn't in that game I would have gotten past the Deku tree, it is most certainly reason to hate it.
Game: an amusement or pastime: children's games
Note the lack of the words "so" "annoying" "that" "it" "causes" "violent" "thoughts" "against" "fairies" "and" "companies" "starting" "with" "the" "letter" "N"
The Most Annoying thing in Super Mario 64 was doing the wall kick with the N64 controller, well that and he said "wall kick" that was also annoying.
At least there is also a "Tell Navi What You Think Edition Youtube.com
While the music wasn't in the 6, it could be with Ocarina"s theme. Youtube.com ZZZZZZZZZZ
(Super Mario 64 theme Youtube.com I like the original one more but its still good)
Techno Rave 2! Youtube.com
Oh and despite coming out two years earlier the Gooma (literally retarded mushrooms) have better AI than "trained" guards.

Edited by: JamesGrayson

How can you comment on the AI when you've NEVER EVEN MADE IT PAST THE DEKU TREE!!! I also only remember one bunch of guards, and they were just on a patrol route, I don't see how the AI was any worse! All they needed to do was walk in a predetermined route that was DESIGNED so that it would be possible to enter the castle, and catch Link if they saw him, which they did perfectly.
And let me put it this way: IN NO WAY DOES THE NAVI TECHNO RAVE PROVE ANY POINT WHATSOEVER!!!
I don't know why you even bother.

JamesGrayson wrote: Game: an amusement or pastime: children's games

Note the lack of the words "any" "words" "that" "you" "can" "possibly" "think" "of," "Ex. "fun." "could" "be" "mentioned"
So that doesn't help you either.
I can however agree that the menu music was a little sleepy, yet you might have picked some better music from the game,
such as the Hyrule Feild theme, or the Goron theme, seriously, who doesn't love the Goron theme!

Edited by: Xos100

Xos100 wrote: How can you comment on the AI when you've NEVER EVEN MADE IT PAST THE DEKU TREE!!! I also only remember one bunch of guards, and they were just on a patrol route, I don't see how the AI was any worse! All they needed to do was walk in a predetermined route that was DESIGNED so that it would be possible to enter the castle, and catch like if they saw him, which they did perfectly.
And let me put it this way: IN NO WAY DOES THE NAVI TECHNO RAVE PROVE ANY POINT WHATSOEVER!!!
I don't know why you even bother.

JamesGrayson wrote: Game: an amusement or pastime: children's games

Note the lack of the words "any" "words" "that" "you" "can" "possibly" "think" "of," "Ex. "fun." "could" "be" "mentioned"
So that doesn't help you either.
I can however agree that the menu music was a little sleepy, yet you might have picked some better music from the game,
such as the Hyrule Field theme, or the Goron theme, seriously, who doesn't love the Goron theme!

See Point O.

She's worse than Jar Jar Binks, the techno rave is just a more fun way of pointing that out, look at the orginal ten minute one if you want unedited Navi.

Navi, and Link's voice make the game so annoying, thats a negative. A BIG ONE. Its through the ENTIRE game.

I'm sorry for going for the MAIN theme, heck next I say Halo music is good maybe I should play a random one thats heard in only one area. Also the "Goron Theme" is horrible Youtube.com just a beat with weird noises. Hyrule field theme is okay though, but one song doesn't make up for the rest, I mean Mario has at least 3 good themes in the NES version.

If you haven't noticed, that "MAIN THEME", is only played once, while it tells you to press start, so I think there are songs in individual areas that are played for longer. The Mario 64 equivalent of this song would be the water level music (in the subterranean lake or what have you.)

Edited by: Xos100

Xos100 wrote: If you haven't noticed, that "MAIN THEME", is only played once, while it tells you to press start, so I think there are songs in individual areas that are played for longer. The Mario 64 equivalent of this song would be the water level music (in the subterranean lake or what have you.)

Just because its menu music doesn't mean it should suck Youtube.com and it should serve to set up how awesome the game/in game music is, not put me to sleep.

Y'know, I actually think that the music is fine where it is. You wouldn't want super exciting music in that location. No, I think that the music is quite effective where it is, its just a different style, GET OVER IT!

Edited by: Xos100

So if the musics, characters weapons, and items, are all reused (with maybe a few additions) that makes it a bad game?
Really that is what you say makes a bad game, doesn't that then include almost every sequel ever made? And aren't both Halo(2 &3), and gears 2, reusing parts of the games that came before them, oooohhhh now I can duel wield needlers, same weapons but know there's 2 of them, would you think it was the same awesomeness if you could duel wield chianshots? Would you? Also youtube is not a source of credible info, as much as it should be it still isn't. Also the point of ingame music is to inhance the mood of the part of the game it is played in. That means that if its menu music it doesn't have a mood to inhance so it doesn't have to be there, but its normally better to have music there then not there. And on the cell shading its separating the game from all its predecessors, makeing a artistic step foreward and the proof is that some people don't like it for personal preferances not game destroying visual misconceptions (is it a wall or a door, an enemy or a bush?). And navi isn't as annoying as you say, just like Jar Jar he wasn't that bad the first couple of times through that movie. Lastly on those point you made on OOT none of them where actually points they where all personal opinion nonsence noise, and the point of giving us the definititon of what a game is. I know I haven't made any of my own pionts in this but, really your main argument isn't backed up so what is there to argue against? If we just continue like this nothing will be accomplished. Also if you havn't realised it be know I generally agree with Xos, (OOT not most popular sorry).

Ashix wrote: So if the musics, characters weapons, and items, are all reused (with maybe a few additions) that makes it a bad game?
Really that is what you say makes a bad game, doesn't that then include almost every sequel ever made? And aren't both Halo(2 &3), and gears 2, reusing parts of the games that came before them, oooohhhh now I can duel wield needlers, same weapons but know there's 2 of them, would you think it was the same awesomeness if you could duel wield chianshots? Would you? Also youtube is not a source of credible info, as much as it should be it still isn't. Also the point of ingame music is to inhance the mood of the part of the game it is played in. That means that if its menu music it doesn't have a mood to inhance so it doesn't have to be there, but its normally better to have music there then not there. And on the cell shading its separating the game from all its predecessors, makeing a artistic step foreward and the proof is that some people don't like it for personal preferances not game destroying visual misconceptions (is it a wall or a door, an enemy or a bush?). And navi isn't as annoying as you say, just like Jar Jar he wasn't that bad the first couple of times through that movie. Lastly on those point you made on OOT none of them where actually points they where all personal opinion nonsence noise, and the point of giving us the definititon of what a game is. I know I haven't made any of my own pionts in this but, really your main argument isn't backed up so what is there to argue against? If we just continue like this nothing will be accomplished. Also if you havn't realised it be know I generally agree with Xos, (OOT not most popular sorry).

Yay your back!

Well first of all Halo has been around for 8 years and Gears of War for 3, Zelda has been around for 23 years. If in 2021 there is a Halo 12 with the same weapons/power-ups/equipment then I will fully agree with you, but we still have 12 years to go. It's not even like they have to stay with the classics to be good, Mario Galaxy is easly one of the Best Wii Titles yet its power-ups include a brand new bee suit. Heck, Super Mario Bros. 3 had various new upgrades like the raccoon tail.

"The main flaw about Twilight Princess's gameplay, however, is the lack of any interesting new items."
Rpgfan.com
Overall 81%
"Also the point of ingame music is to inhance the mood of the part of
the game it is played in. That means that if its menu music it doesn't
have a mood to inhance so it doesn't have to be there, but its normally
better to have music there then not there."

Shouldn't the start of the adventure at least have a BIT of pizazz, I mean just because its the menu music it doesn't mean it should be allowed to suck, also the menu music is the Main Theme of the game (unlike Halo's) shouldn't the main theme be the best piece music and/or be a reflection of the game's music?

"And on the cell shading its separating the game from all its
predecessors, making a artistic step forward and the proof is that
some people don't like it for personal preferences not game destroying visual misconceptions (is it a wall or a door, an enemy or a bush?)."

So as long as it functions the graphics are fine? You have very low standards, would you be fine if they released infamous with Spider-Man for the playstation 1 graphics? It functions, I can tell who's Spidey and where all of the buildings are.

Also calling it an "artistic step forward" is an opinion, others like me would call it "lazy" and an attempt by Nintendo to avoid doing a more graphic intensive Zelda game like the did with Twilight Princess (which was released on the cube, though the cube was already dead for two years Vgcats.com

Navi is annoying! Vgcats.com (Not a credible source but I will not conced that she is not annoying even Xos admits shes annoying)

No, even when it launched he was bad, maybe it was because we kids at the time (I hated him then too though, my favourite was Obi-Wan) but he was hated when the movie first came out.

Nytimes.com
Web.archive.org
Articles.latimes.com

I'm sorry but if the New York Times isn't credible nothing is (which would render any discussion over anything not based in complete hard fact like 2+2=4 or the Meaning of Life is 42, useless)

The camera sucked, the AI was horrid (you would see the proof if you went to the link in point O) and the graphics were sometimes blurry.

Sidenotes: Best Vgcats comic Vgcats.com
Also you need to use a spell checker. What is a "chianshots"?

Edited by: JamesGrayson

Maybe you're just blind, I can tell perfectly well what's a bush and what's a tree, also I still think that the guards were fine and they did what they were supposed to. Oh, and shorter posts are better, because I don't even read half of your extremely long posts.

Edited by: Xos100