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chat about world, money, life, nwo, crisis etc. (Groups : Europe : Forum : EU Chat : chat about world, money, life, nwo, crisis etc.) Locked
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Jul 17 2010 Anchor
Jul 17 2010 Anchor

The Bilderberg group:

Around 130 guests from the elite, no major media coverage of their meetings or purposes of their meetings.

No names are noted, since there are some laws in various countries that prevent foreign officials from meeting each other in private. Simply illegal.

Edited by: feillyne

Jul 18 2010 Anchor

Wonder what they're up to this time?
I wonder if there is much more to this than simply money and power.

I watched a lot of videos on youtube about secret temples, like Babylon, and the Aztecs Temple.
What is in there, that they so keenly try to cover up?

... or is it merely a conspiracy?!

Jul 18 2010 Anchor

all i can see is that the governments are getting weaker and weaker.
france with sarkozy, with his behavior no one likes him anymore.
italy with berlusconi i wouldn't be wondered if someone shoots him like kennedy. though i must say that i like him.
germany sorry but westerwelle never belonged into the government, they are on the 5% breach...
usa obama with the oil and health inssurance thing and the war everywhere and his little agent playing around with russia.
spain portugal and greece well they could almost be described as 3rd world country's.
uk after the loss of gordon brown... well look what they have now, 2 newcomers from different party's once enemies now friends???
poland with the airplane catastrophe their whole elite was whipped out... i don't know who the new ones are, but can't be that good.
japan the financial crisis changed the whole government and that after such a long legacy.
@feillyne we are farer away from nwo than ever or... nearer.

Edited by: OrangeNero

Jul 18 2010 Anchor

The NWO is a very complex and delicate issue that most people don't want to know about, but make it worse by leaving it at the government's mercy only... and people should be more involved in it, to find out what is really about, as there have been many wild stories in the media, stating that the NWO was all about enslaving people, and things of that nature.

But we are already enslaved, just look around you... women shop for confort, man drink for confort, kids starting to smoke and having relations younger and younger.
Untill when do you stop your kids from doing such things?
When do you allow them to do it?
Where do you want to draw the line?

All I can say my friends, and read this carefully.
The world is changing way to much, and way too quickly, and we are feeling the pressure... wondering if we can keep up with it.
I my-self don't want anything to do with this New World.

I want things to go back the way they were in the early 90's.
Where parents still had the final word, not the government.
Where you had your job, and your wages were good, we weren't rich, but could live confortable.
Where everything was mellow, and it felt good.

Now all you can feel is hostility everywhere.

My friends, I don't want to type a 10 page worth of comments, but I have to tell you that something does not feel right these days.
I don't like the World of today!

Edited by: Soul-Guardian

Jul 19 2010 Anchor

Always these conspiracy rumors...
Isn't it natural that the privileged try to hold their status or even try to get a bigger piece of the cake? :devil:
Sad but it seems to be natural behaviour...
But on the other side solidarity works in good in some societies. There is even a tribe in the Amazons that still live in social-anarchy, but that only seems to work with a small group of people.
Maybe Anarchy does not work because we humans are just to selfish, or is it that the ruling class wants us to think of it? Hasn't there always been a might that did not want that the concept of Anarchy works? 1871 The Germans who had just crushed the French army but let them go so they could put down the "Paris Commune" that had established in Paris.
Some years later in the Spanish civil-war the Stalinists fought little battles against the Anarchists for domination of factories, because Stalin did not want the factories run by anarchists, proving anarchy works. (Thats a especialy sad story of history I think: instead of putting all power in fighting Franco blood was spelt between Republikans)
But the most bothering me is that the public in Europe (besides france and greece maybe), is stuned of fear:
Everyone is afraid to loose their job, because the empoyers make one employee work for two, so then again the wage can be cut, because so many are jobless, and are so stupid to work for even less. Some do 3-4 low paid jobs just not that they have to take wellfare-money, and too tax-money is even used to subsidize low cost jobs, what makes the employer even richer!
Too Europes employies are allowed to recruit from all of the EU, but there is no Europe-wide minimum wage. And then the factories built in the new eastern EU-zone are subsidized with EU-money. And the factories are not built because extra work has to be done, no there will be a factory closed in the "higher wage" country for sure: all in the name of the EU :sick:
So we (the citizens of Europe) have to make sure:
1. The EU-parlament get far more rights (its a theater right now) and the bureaucracy (or should I say lobbyists?) less power!
2. All of the trading Zone needs to have a minimum wage you can live in all countries of Europe, not only in Rumania.
3. The debit of the financial crieses has to be payed completely from the banks!
(not like now the banks only giveing symbolic aid, while holding big parties again)
radical steps:
There has to be an maximum amount of money every one can have: How can it be some people have more money than national-states have for buget? So much money they could not spend for good food in 1000 years...
Such a pile of money can just be used to build up power. :devil:
So is it fair to steal money from a millionaer? ...probably
Is it fair to steal money from a multi-millionaer? for sure because he stole it from somebody else (or his father/grandfather/ancestors did)

now take the nasty word "steal" and replace it with: take it, and give it the comunity - is it still stealing???

Now how do we mobilise the masses? If I would be Berlosconi or Murdoch, no problem, but shXt they are on the wrong side... :-/
Damn probably we really have to toxic all the water supplies with LSD. any better proposal? :paranoid:

Education is the key!
But as the mighty never have intrest that their tributary get educated. The enslaved would find out quickly they don't need the "monied aristocracy spoilt by interest"!
So it will be in future like it was in the past: a little class of overwealthy send their sons&daughters to elite-schools, put up a ligation, so the sons & daughters rule on. The dumb masses have their TV,playstation&football and spend their little money for consuming, so the rich get even richer. Damn thats better than feudalism! Or is it modern feudalism????

ok hope this keeps you going!

yours shroomman

Edited by: shroomman

Jul 19 2010 Anchor

Well, first of all I would like the government to stop taking money of the poor, that they don't have.
They give you with one hand and take with another.
Poor people never get anywhere, since the government steals you of every penny... the more you earn, the more taxes you pay... leaving you with no incentive what so ever to go to work, or actually start you own business.

Anarchy is comunism! but is comunism selfish, or it just looks after it's comunity, making it fair for everyone within that comunity?

Socialist Republics, are larger than anarchies, and embrace & welcome outsiders, making it part of a larger comunity... expanding, but that's when the pie gets smaller, as there are more people to share it with.

Then there's Monarchies, which apply a division of classes, and that's perhaps the worse party of all, but it seems to work now-a-days in some parts of the world.
But not on the majority, as it stereotypes people, giving priority to rich people, leaving the poor behind, and forgotten about.
That's the policy that the UK seems to have applied with this new party that came into power.

There is a forth alternative... the Liberal Democrats.
I don't know much about Liberals my-self, they are in power in the UK together with conservatives, and they seem to just sink into the backround and let the conservatives comunist do everything.

To conclude, which way would you want to go?
Which partu do you thing it works better in your country and your comunity?

Edited by: Soul-Guardian

Jul 19 2010 Anchor

well i can only give you guy's an example of my projects in school. we started as a democracy, then went into anarchy, and afterwards i kicked some butt and leaded them in a so called dictator ship. the funny thing is, in the dictatorship we were all happy, and work was going very well. I know about the cruelty being caused by many dictators in the past, but also if they do it the "right" way it can be the best solution for some.

if i had to choose , i would choose a dictatorships with those in charge in witch i believe they are doing right. though it is very risky and maybe also stupid. but in the end, there is always someone in charge so every form of government is a dictatorship. some are more, and some are less.

I don't believe into party's or systems, i believe into humans.

ow and lets just face it, moddb is a liberal dictatorship, and look how well it is doing and how happy many people here are. (though some assholes around)

Jul 20 2010 Anchor

ModDB is owned by INtense!, and it is his site, basically.

While you're a CITIZEN of a country: you OWN it, at least in some part, so you must have a voice in what's going on, and what your tax money is spent on - or your parents' cash is spent on.

Jul 24 2010 Anchor

As it seems this group is getting to a EU-critic-group I have to remind most of you, that most of the counties you live got lots of EU money for infrastructure... most of eastern Europe would still be in post communism chaos, that what I think! And now the eastern countries (esp. poland) are the ones crying loudest. Never forget what opportunity the EU gave/give the countries, and their economics! If someone is allowed to complain its Germany & France paying all that!!!
And too who was it who put up depths in EURO? Bloody dumb people wanting to consume things they could not afford, and now their currency lost against the EURO, and they can not pay back their depths: that's capitalism you wanted!!!
Its a shame the people of the eastern Countries did not try to reform communism, no the wanted true capitalism! Well it worked out good, for some, but not for the most. I could have prophesied that! The humans are too greedy!

Jul 24 2010 Anchor

Western countries didn't give a d_mn about saving eastern countries such as Poland from communism. ;-P Even the eastern part of Germany was lost, and much poorer because of it. And the real Polish government, in the UK, was rejected by communists who have taken over most eastern countries that western Europeans didn't give a d_mn about.

Still, all we can REALLY complain about, is the DEMONISATION of the culture.

Where are our morals? Where are ideals? Money replaced everything.

Edited by: feillyne

Jul 24 2010 Anchor

I never said the western countries wanted to save the eastern countries from communism! It was the people thinking capitalism was a good thing and the only alternative! And as long the (EU)-money came into the country it was ok, but now all are complaining because it seems capitalism is bad too. So where is the alternative? Just complaining doesn't get us one inch further, what do YOU think is the alternate System you want to live in!
Just criticising is negative! Think positive!
If you think you have a good Idea how to make life better for all, you have to communicate it, so enough people will fight for that idea!
Of course you can be against anything, that's most simple of all! (but absolutely dumb)

Jul 24 2010 Anchor

Christ's solution. Sharing. Barter. Freedom of technology. Technology made free or shared (open-source & public). Teaching very young children advanced e.g. mathematics, biology, anatomy... physics... science, in a very understandable way for them, e.g. diagrams & using child's simple(r) vocabulary, so they can understand the CONCEPTS.

That's how you build a society.

Instead of greed & consumerism: personal cars that could be replaced by excellent public transportation, planned excursions, etc.

It's because of the rich who made this SYSTEM, THIS MONETARY GREEDY SYSTEM where everybody must take everything for himself!

Jul 24 2010 Anchor

yea, I think we seem to share our views in that! 8)

Jul 24 2010 Anchor

yes and i think its good the west does not give a d_mn about the east. they have enough problems to solve, and i mean serious problems. before you go run and help everyone else you have to make sure that you self will survive. and i see that west is not that much away from turning into the sh_t the east is stuck in.

all i get is that here we talk about the right way. well what if there is no right way? i have the same problem in my group aswell. its now so big that i cant make decisions witch suit everyone. infact i always have to think who will like and who will dislike it.
i think if we were less humans on this planet most problems would be solved. i don't mean to kill or to make them dissappear... but its a problem every living organism has. a flower grows until its highest point, then it dies and spreads its semen to make many more flowers... thats how life is, a come and go. even if we are now on a crucial point where it could all collapse, i still have hope that there is a future, and that it can be a nice and good one. if the nwo is coming, time teaches us that there is no forever.

but the chip implant is gonna hurt mankind when it comes, well actually its already here... and foer all those witch believe into the stories of 666, the whole story ends in a happy end. don't forget that.

Oct 7 2010 Anchor

Too bad I didn't found this earlier. Feillyne is right, and we all will have to just change paradigm because our current one is discontinued. You can say it's utopian, because you can't have infinite growth on a finite planet and this crisis is the consequence, well, one of the consequences...

I'm not going to say nothing new different of what I posted in a news's comment a while ago. In fact, I'm just going to copy past it. This is what I wrote. You can ignore some sentences as they don't fit here:

Someone wrote: You guys are missing the whole issue here. It's obvious that you are some of those people which Michael Ruppert could call zombies that just came to life again. If that is the case, welcome all, but I guess you guys have a long way to investigate why the crisis exits...
First off, it doesn't matter whenever those countries have a independent currency. They are holding better alright, but what really matters is not money, as money is not a resource. What matters is raw resources, natural resources. ENERGY, to keep up stuff running.
Second, holding two currencies at the same time doesn't solve the problem. Money itself created the problem, and so, how can you expect bring a solution that caused the problem in the first place?
Even Germany is going to fall unless they change their behavior radically like everyone else...Third, after you follow what I say, you will understand why people are greedy... They just have to, because of the irrational system we live in, otherwise, they could just collaborate with others...Fourth, Immigration exists, because people, like every single living human needs food to survive and immigrates in the hope of a better way of living which it's own country can't support...
So, to get you guys started, I'll leave you with some valuable information so you guys can start reflecting about this. You guys ever searched how money is created and injected in the market in the first place? Do 3 things:First, you will understand how money is created, and how some economic, and corporal empires were created, in a very explicative way through 2 documentaries which I highly recommend:

"Zeitgeist: Addendum"
(Zeitgeist also released another movie, "Zeitgeist: the movie", but that one doesn't matter, it's just cospirational and was built under the thesis of seeing the world through a different perspective, both the movies are free though, you can find them translated in your language very easily)
If you wish also, go to the,, select your country, and talk with the people there, they will be able to explain a lot about what is going on, and help you with information)Direct link to Addendum:

Second, you are going to see "Collapse" (2009)...
and maybe if you wish, sign in this website, and access the world desk news (sorry, it's 10$ a month, but I swear to you, those are the best compilations of news that come every day, and can show you the news that really matter. News from various journals like Guardian, Times, Independent, Bloomberg, etc...) If you don't wish to sign up, I advise you to visit that website anyway, as it has a lot of free and useful content available also.
Collapse will explain why money is not the only factor behind the crisis, and that more factors may come also to affect us.Direct link to Collapse:

Third, forget what you see on the television. They are locked on their own paradigm, and won't tell you what really going on so early. You will understand what I say after you watch those 2 documentaries.
After that, reply to me, and put your doubts on the table, here, or in the zeitgeist movement forums, they will also be able to help you.Good luck... and don't get too angry, you need to reach the acceptance phase...

This I post here, I try to get away from conspiracy theories as far as I can. The Bildeberg group exists alright, but they can only make their new NWO, or whatever you like to call (because any global change, good or bad, can be considered a NWO, so it's a very indirect term), as long as they can keep the things running like they were.
If there is to come a NWO, it would have to be dictatorship or something similar, as I don't see them having a different system that can perpetuate their class right now...

Edited by: ricardodnpereira

Oct 8 2010 Anchor

The harsh reality is that people are much more primeval than they allow them-selves to realise, and the government knows this well, and therefore the reason why people need to be kept under control and manipulated into doing what the government thinks it's best for us.

However, there is a thin line between keeping savages under control and enslaving people.
We were never really free.
There allways been some sort of manipilation from the government, and the people behind it all.
some of the forms of manipulation have been from religion, to laws, to the media, and to the own american constitution, which a lot of people praise and workship so much, thus fighting for it to come into practice, as they feel the american government has been altering it for their own benefit, and as they see fit.

Ridiculous as it may sound, but it seems that anarchism seems to work better with people, like a few people have previously commented.
People need to be told what to do, and I repeat... Need to be told.
Otherwize we would still retain our primeval way of thinking, and the world would be in chaos.

Having said that, I'm not particularly convinced that a government who leaves the major issues behind closed doors is the ideal form of "people's management", as the members of the parlament so like to refer to it.

Well, I leave it with this tought for now.
Freedom is an ilusion, and can't really be obtained.
We were never meant to be really free.
The human race is primite, self-destructive, and power hungry.
We are going to be our own destruction.

Something to think about.

Oct 8 2010 Anchor

education is the key!
Keep your tributary/citizen dumb and he will be easy to control!

educate your tributary/citizen and he will think of its own and will rebell or revolt, but if they will learn not to exploit the world / their fellow being, overcome their greed, I'm sure a form of anarchy will work.
Syndicalism worked out in spain, till Franco made a coup to give the landlords back the land, and making it possible to exploit the people again.
The same happened in chile: Salvador Allende was couped by Augusto Pinochet, because he tried to create a sozialism not related to kommunism.
Pinochet was helped from the western countries (US, britian, germany, vatican,...) probably because they where afraid that Allende could create a role model of a righteous state/form of government

But there are no such selfless politicans like Allende in this period.
Maybe Evo Morales may turn out to be such as good as Allende.
but I'm sure he will be assassinated before he can prove he is, I'm affraid :cry:

There are powers wanting to claim their power, never forget that!
As the european "elite" is still full of blue-blooded bastards and the US of money-noble-men.
Sorry I know that sucks, but its reality!
Its not the human race is primite, self-destructive, and power hungry its some few beeing such!!!!!!

Edited by: shroomman

Oct 9 2010 Anchor

I agree with a few aspects that you mentioned, but I still stick to my oppinion, that everyone... or atleast the majority of the world's population would abuse their power, should they had any, for their own means and purposes to achieve what they so desire, and what all humans who are humans desire.
Ultimate power, fame and fortune.
Noble men are just myths, in my oppinion. Everyone allways does something to get something in return.
It may not be power and money, or even to attract the opposite sex, which... don't forget plays an extremely important role in the human life, but maybe they do it for a feeling of satisfaction within them-selves, and to make them selves feel better, and therefore nobody does anything for nothing.

You are right about the fact that when everyone comes along to try to give people their freedom... freedom of choice, freedom of speech, and other important values; and tries to uncover the truth, that person gets assassinated in one way or another.
But people are not half as ignorant as they once were... centuries, or even decades ago.

However, is ignorance a bliss? Like some say... or is being inteligent more advantegous to you?
I am well aware of what's going on in the world, yet I have been unemployed for 3 years, and being inteligent (Modesty aside), does not improve my life financially in any way.
But then again, I am not one of those power ungry people, and honestly I am petrified of it... but I do value what's more important in life.

The knights of the round table, the three mosqueteers, Robin hood, william tell... they are all just myths... the governments have been exploiting people for many countless years, and everyone who ever attempt to uncover the truth, that person gets killed.
But people know this, and no one seems to do anything about it?!
Because people seem to be happy being controlled and manipulated, or perhaps is it fear and denial.

It's all relevant, and everything being discussed here, wether people get the point or not, all comes down to one ultimate mutual goal.
Freedom and Peace amongst the human race.

Edited by: Soul-Guardian

Oct 9 2010 Anchor

Nelson, I have to disagree, although somethings you said here are true, in a primary layer they are not completely true.
It goes around noble men being myth. Although many of the world leaders are a fake, noble people can exist. And everyone fights for fortune, and therefore fame and power, because the debt system and the monetary system, as so also our society values (paradigm) perpetuates that. No one is born greedy, it just simply picks that from the society, since behavior is conditioned by the surrounding environment.
You need to change the environment to help change behavior, and in the other hand, changing behaviors is necessary to begin changing environments. Its a vicious cycle that can be triggered from the beginning that people become aware of the problems of the current paradigm.

Second about the people teaching and getting stalled/assassinated for that, that is also dangerous, but it is because of a naive part of the masses. Once again conditioned by the environment. Let me explain: It is necessary to teach the people, but it is extremely important, for security reasons, not to make leaders. Leaders are dangerous, because in order to stop the incentive os masses, being morally active by their leaders, you just need to take out the leader, to take out the masses, disorganizing them. And people did that, because every single new member that joined the movement, saw the other people following a leader, and they did the same. The Zeitgeist Movement though, has this in mind, and the members are mostly aware of this danger, so they don't make a leader out of P. Joseph. Although they are important and started the main areas of the movement, P. Joseph is not mainly brought to the front. It is the movement itself that is brought ahead, and what it represents (like a logo/symbol/value vs a face/leader). The repercussions to this, fromo a movement on a global scale, is that sometimes people join the movement without necessarily knowing the founders. I'm not sure who the founder actually is, it just doesn't matter. And even the movement is not sometimes brought ahead. Sometimes the very word transition is enough, and people are free to choose whatever movement they want, as that in the end, they are all very similar. Community Planet Foundation, Reprap Foundation, OpenSource Ecology, The Venus Project, Advanced Civilization, Freecycle, European Organization for Sustainability, Tamera, CollapseNet, etc.. and just some of the movements that are all, in some way similar and that focus on the value and need "transition". Not a leader ahead, but a concept. And to kill a concept, you need to take out it's entire culture, not just murder all the participants in the movement, in fact that is a idiotic idea.
So, to add the education on people about making them aware of the current problems, through documentaries or "exemplative" news on the television, you must also advocate something very important. TO BE THE LEADER OF YOURSELF as Krishnamurti advocated in his philosophical life. Quoting him: ", yourself, you are your leader, you are the master, you are the teacher, the pupil, the guru, You Are Everything!". Mind that, and advocate it. It is important, as it makes everyone a collaborator by self conclusion, and not just rest the conclusions to a leader that can be decapitated, because otherwise, yes, making the three musketeers out an example can be bad... placing responsibility on thirds. I guess that is also quite a problem in the portuguese mind right? (relax, it's no foreign critic/attack to the portuguese people. I'm portuguese as well)

Third, people are not as ignorant as they once were centuries ago... but that is when it comes to scientific knowledge and technology. Because people have been profoundly unaware of the mechanics of money lately (and even in science too), and are awakening again due to the crisis, and awakening faster and faster.
Denial though is somewhat of a natural aspect of the human nature, also conditioned by the current monetary environment. To explain: Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, as the documentary "Collapse" explains, was a psychologist that described the 5 stages of the human grief. The first one is Denial ("...this can't possibly happen, its not true, it can't be..."), and you fight to stay in denial until you fall and reach the Anger phase, that is the second phase and is also responsible for the existence of revolts and riots, where nothing that is being sold as a solutions seems to be helping us. Then you go to a third phase, the Doubt ("... maybe if I do this this wont happen, or things will be different, maybe if I do this now..."). And then you go over a Depression phase, a very hard one, that the individual human must go over by itself, but it can be morally helped by others, and it's the phase when everything starts to make sense like never before. And finally, the fifth stage and the one that matters, Acceptance, when people finally start to find solutions and are morally strong to make decisions and cooperate with the others, and helping out the next.
Denial therefore will have to be confronted. Every single human confronts it, no matter how small the time on the denial stage is. It's up to us to help them understand that we are running against a dead end, and to help them become socially active, so they can become their own leaders. Don't forget to teach that, it's very important.

Say, why wont you come by the portuguese forum of the zeitgeist movement Nelson? click here if you want: Meet me up. My nick there is CropedFreedom.

Finally, to end this up, I'll leave with you guys the 2 documentaries, because by the nature of your comments, you didn't seem to have seen them (not you shrooman, your comments are alike mine, I couldn't have said better :)) But check the videos anyway. I really recommend them...

Zeitgeist Addendum:

Edited by: ricardodnpereira

Oct 9 2010 Anchor

Zeitgeist Movement? The visions of Jacques Fresco?
here's a useful hint witch helped me a lot: Stay skeptic no matter how good it sounds or looks.
i watched their "orientations guide" and all i can say is that it is ****'ed up and that i will stay away from it.

Oct 10 2010 Anchor

I will follow Orange's advice and stay away from it.

Which brings me to a relative point, in which you being portuguese are well aware of what I'm about to explain.
Salazar was considered a shadow of Hitler, many portugese stated that Salazar was inspired by the man him-self, and that he was a tirant, using an anarchy to control the country... through dictatorship, he ruled portugal like no one has ever done up untill this point.

Sure, his movement was extreme and no different than Hitler, and most of the laws he created were just ridiculous.
He took people's freedom of speech away; people could not even speak of the government, because they would get shot on the spot.
However, in recent researches shows that salazar was the greatest portuguese that ever existed.
Not only because he made portugal one of the richest countries in the world at that time, but he made sure that we were one of the most powerfull too.

Once he got out of power, portugal has been going down the drain, and sinking deeper and deeper, so all that it remains now it's a pathetic shadow of its former self.
Salazar was considered a tirant, and he certainly was power hungry indeed.
But to eliminte a leader that actually cared for the country, to replace with one just as bad, but that usses a different aproach, it's not just hypocreetical, but it cancels the whole purpose of creating a better society for the good of everyone.

The only difference is that Salazar manifested his vision through physical forms, such as martial law, and other forms of punishment, and the government today uses forms of comunication and brain washing techniques, such as the media... to put fear into people.

Those are forms of manipulation like I stated earlier in the topic, and that is what's going on now-a-days.

I have seen a short video about Stephen Fry talking about religious manipulation on human kind.
Check out the video here:

Edited by: Soul-Guardian

Oct 10 2010 Anchor

not meant as an advice, just my personal opinion. When someone is interested and curious about different sights of the world then please go and watch their orientation guide and you will know what it is about. or at least what their activists should be about.
But be aware that its all based on the ideology of one self educated men. That alone makes me skeptic on the highest level.

Oct 10 2010 Anchor

I don't make a leader out of Jaques Fresco, or , neither I totally believe to see the Venus Project on the earth. Most likely we will jump either to a dictatorship (to keep things as they are, a bit different though), or local economies. (a bit out of topic but...) that is not the reason why I joined the movement, and I also had my doubts about the Zeitgeist itself.
But I joined by a very simple thing. Nothing stopped me to look the forums, and that was what cough the eye, the members (well not the ones now, the international forum has more reptilian stories than before when I first entered the forum...). Those people had ideas and culture which I wanted to absorb. Things got even better when I found portuguese specific forums. So I still didn't join because of the leaders, or the movement itself. I joined for the collaboration with others, and even then, we all have different opinions or knowledge in one way or another.

Second . The movement being "the ideology of one self educated man". You are so wrong, because of many aspects. Lets see how skeptic you are...
So to start, at the Activist Orientation Guide. It's impossible for one man having only is own opinion in a document that big and factually sourced (in the world issued part). No matter, whenever the informations there are right or wrong, they are not completely of his own, also as we all know, no human being is born with knowledge, and he picks it up from the surrounding society, so he picked the opinions from many other opinions. At least I'm sure that the debt part, and the money mechanics came mainly from Ellen Brown, the author of the book, and that the psychological part, and mostly everything related to sociology came from Jaques Fresco and Roxanne Meadows (as naturally, a social engineer does focus on those issues), I'm unaware though about the other sources for the rest of the guide...
The point I want to reach is this. By quoting other people, you can't then really say it is your only opinion, but rather a big compilation of opinions to connect the dots, and build a general concept. So you are wrong about the movement/orientation guide expressing the opinion of a single person.
Then the movement itself... Just the very fact that many people there religion ideology (after all, the TZM is a free religion movement, so it is ok), others talking about reptilians without concrete proof, the kind of things that most of the members would reject, but there are such members that do, show that the movement is by itself hybrid and does not follow the ideology of a single person as well...
And to finish, for example, I never read the Orientation Guide, so I guess I don't really follow a strict orientation to it, and though I'm still part of the movement, at least as how I see myself. I don't really feel that necessity or reading the guide, as I said, I care about collaboration and knowledge sharing with others, advocating change without exactly advocating the movement. I think I can also transform my own change, like everyone else. Diversity is very important. I rather use other kinds of guides. My favorite are the blogs , such as, or the former "Mike Ruppert's Peak Oil", though, those are not guides, but a collection of updated world news on which I plan upon. So an advise too, keep Planning and Reality connected, and not just separated like many people do. I could be wrong though...

I didn't ask you to join the movement. I just invited you to stop by our forums and talk. Though you and free to join, or not, any movement you think it's best. Just make your decisions in base of the reality and not relates ;)
Thank you though for your last comment. Remembered me somethings I forgot, and they came in handy just in time :)

Now, I wish to stop talking about the Zeitgeist Movement. I didn't came here to advocate it. I came here to talk about the crisis, and I wished the talk to continue. But before that, one last question.
Tell me orange the places that you saw s*** in the orientation guide, although I don't really care about reading it, because of the reasons I explained before. But now that you said such things, I'm curious. :)


Edited by: ricardodnpereira

Oct 10 2010 Anchor

What i don't like about it?

  1. They think you are dumb like a rock. Before they tell you what they are about they start to educate you in their own theories and ideology and tell you why today's world is not working witch is no wonder since they have different views.
  2. They are against all forms of government, nations, lifestyle, and culture and property and especially money and personal knowledge. To top it they replace it with their own.
  3. They replace money with... nothing. they calculate what you need to live and give it to you. i don't think that a PS3 or porn is included into their calculations but thats another story.
  4. They do not tell you how they threat those witch do not agree with their vision, well they do not exist in it anyway so i just hope that they will vanish peacefully.
  5. They are greedy on the highest level since they want to command and conquer the whole world while you have no property.
  6. They want to replace the government with a calculator. no joke. well its an advanced calculator with its own database and maybe with its own AI. (terminator 3 comes into my mind)
  7. God does not exist in their vision.
  8. You have no property. And please do not think that you have any kind of rights. The chance that a calculator will grant you any is low.
  9. It reduces humans to biological machines.
  10. They aim for efficiency witch is in my opinion even worse than aiming for money. i wonder what they will do when they realize that machines are more efficient than humans. well take a calculator and look for yourself.
  11. You do not have sex, sex is inefficient. they will use laboratories since they are all about efficiency and they want you to be 100% while nature is not about 100%. children witch would be sick or abnormal would be described as a waste of resources. well just kill it and look if the next one comes out better. they will most likely produce bio mass out of its corpse.
  12. You don't have any property.
  13. A computer is your ruler.
  14. They don't want you to think. If you have a problem you ask this computer and it will give you the best answer available. ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO GIVE UP EVERYTHING AND DO WHAT A CALCULATOR TELLS YOU??? YOU THINK THIS IS BETTER THAN GOOGLE???
  15. In their vision humans are a worthless piece of junk and will soon be replaced by androids, their vision is the doom of mankind so why do they don't commit suicide right away since its much more efficient and leads to the same result.

here is the orientations guide too bad its in german. you wanted to know what i don't like about it, i was honest about it.
Maybe there will be more points added to this list since the orientations guide is 1h53min long and i am tired of writing.
one last thing asking someone to stop by their forums and talk with them is the most common way to get others to join movements.
Just make your decisions in base of the reality and not relates ;) i like this sentence.

you don't have to answer to this reply since i want to talk about something else as well but feel free to do so if you like to. please stay curious and take it easy :)
(not so serious: We all should prepare to get beaten up rhetorically by feillyne after he smelled the nwo in our replys)

I missed that you did not heard the orientations guide before i wrote the list. You will probably not agree on any of the points i listed up because all you know about the Zeitgeist movement comes from other personal opinions and views like blogs and forum replies etc. Before you join something you inform yourself what it is about. The whole stuff you wrote about picking up others opinions is what i call forming your own opinion. Of course you get educated by your surrounding like your teachers and parents and region and religion etc. but you still form your own opinion out of it. all opinions are based on something and are influenced. it worries but not wonders me that there are activists witch do not know what the movement is about entirely.

Edited by: OrangeNero

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