Christians of Moddb
Hobbies & Interests
This group is exactly what the name implies. A group for people who are Christians. If you're a Christian then please join us. We're a place on ModDB for Christians to gather and talk. It's as simple as that.
Step One: Sit down.
Step Two: Wish for something to be created in front of you from nothing.
Step Three: Keep wishing.
Step Four: Accept that something cannot be created from nothing. It's illogical and impossible.
Atheism is the belief that this universe randomly and spontaneously exploded into existence from nothing. Such belief defies logic and common sense. The universe was never always here as science has proved and as science has proved that something cannot come from nothing, the logical conclusion is that a eternal, everlasting, all-powerful, timeless and infinite being was behind the creation of the universe.
That's a great explanation, but still so many think that we are wrong when clearly there is more proof for an almighty God then a big bang!
What proof of God?
More evidence debunking atheism:
Moddb.com
The Big Bang theory doesn't describe why the universe was created. In fact, The Big Bang Theory implies creation from a god which is why early atheist scientists rejected it. The Big Bang theory was actually first proposed by a Catholic Priest.
The theory also says the universe is expanding as detailed in The Bible:
Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
The Big Bang theory also states that the universe had a beginning which agrees with Genesis. Atheists who accept the theory today try to say that pre-material existed before the universe and that this pre-material formed into the universe somehow but wouldn't that pre-material therefore be a creator and support the pantheism belief? How did this pre-material come into existence? It couldn't have existed forever because energy and matter (which this pre-material would have to had been) are not eternal.
Atheism really doesn't have anything to stand on. I can understand people who believe in deism (A god exists but it doesn't do anything and just watches) and pantheism (the universe is God) but I can't understand why anyone would believe in atheism.
Hehe. Simple and straight to the point.
Also this logic can work on christianity to,
Step one: Sit down
Step two: Pray to Jesus for food.
Step three: Keep praying.
Step four: Accept that Jesus won't give you food. It's illogical and impossible...
Not really.
Prayer has worked plenty of times and if you Google it (or ask someone in real life), you will find plenty of stories from people who prayed and received what they wanted. I once prayed after my leg was injured to point where I could not walk, it was fixed there and then. If you truly seek and believe, your prayers will be answered. Africa? Africa is starved of resources and experiences lack of rain. We know. Such must be so for the words of Christ to be fulfilled:
Matthew 24:4-14
"Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places."
If God gave one person food and water in Africa, he'd have to give everyone there food and water. Currently, God cannot do this. This world belongs to Satan now:
1 John 5:19
"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."
God is allowing Satan to have control of the world so that we can see what a ruler Satan really is and turn away from him out of free-will. For this to happen, God cannot interact. He held our hand once but no more. We are no longer in the nest.
The meek however will inherit the earth in the end. The children who die of starvation will inherit the earth. Death to God is not true death and once you know the one whom he sent, you will know that death is not the end.
Psalm 37:11
But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace.
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Do I expect you to believe the story about the miracle I witnessed? No. You'd be foolish to believe me but it worked unlike the atheism theory.
I'm not trying to prove the existence of a god who interacts with the universe but this image proves a god created the universe. Whether that god interacts with the universe or not (deism) is another story but let me tell, all the miracles and reports of miracles throughout human history really speak against your comment. I know atheists who have converted to theism after witnessing miracles and these were the really devout atheists who are skeptical of everything. So for them to convert to theism, the miracle must have been really indisputable for them to suddenly convert.
Either way, this image does away with the atheism theory. It doesn't prove God interacts with this universe but it still proves a creator is the more logical theory than the atheism lie.
Lol, people can accomplish much when they think and try hard enaught, that always do not tell that god had something to do with it. For example, person who lost hes hand grew himself another hand. How would you explain that? he was not an christian, but he did beleave in himself and wished it. Every miracle is not an god's wish lol.
Well, how did the christianity really start as a religion? Ancient people needed an explanation to the things, like how did this planet come to existance, or how were humans created etc. And some briliant people thaught an thing called god that many will follow. And voila, they have control over beleavers and live like kings.
But, you also think that we are the only living sentient beings in the universe? There are billions-billions planets and galaxies, over 10% can support life, so there are other living things all over the universe. And well, there are way more proof of alien life and they have actually visited us than proof of god. Ancient humans saw the beings from other worlds, they had hig tech and flying machines. So, ancient human did not know how to explain it. He then named them God's and Angels (aka flying machines and beings with powers unknown to humans.)
But i don't know how the universe was created. Only thing proven with science is the creation of planets and such.
There's proof of aliens visiting this planet? There's no proof. You believe in aliens without seeing them and yet deny God because you don't see him.
You've contradicted yourself. No man has ever grown a hand by wishing for it and therefore, your argument is really invalid. There are many historic examples where prayers have been answered though and Biblical prophecies have come true:
Peace-of-mind.net
No one has ever ran out proclaiming that they created something from nothing though and no one ever shall. "I wished and my hand grew back!" Nope. These words have never said and never will be. Miracles are reported. Atheism physics is never reported.
There are actually indefinite stars and indefinite planets in this massive universe with indefinite civilizations which God has probably created. Science confirms that FTL is not possible. Any aliens that came here would have to be really stupid to spend thousands of years travelling through space to visit earth and burn our crops (trolling) and then fly off. Either these aliens are the biggest trolls in this universe to fly for billions of light years just to troll farmers or they are incredibly stupid. My opinion? Any civilization that is space-faring wouldn't spend thousands of years travelling to the next galaxy just to troll farmers and then leave and therefore, logically, all these crop circles are fake as proven along with UFO's which are mostly confirmed as being army air crafts.
If someone want a proof of God's existence, all he has to do is to read René Descartes or Anselme de Cantorbéry
This arguement can be used agaisnt religion aswell.
What created God? Did he create himself? Course not, he'd have had to be created to have created himself. Did something else create him? Ok, what created that? And the cycle goes on and on... Or was HE created out of nothing? Well, then the Universe was aswell.
See? xD.
lol never thaught of that in that way lol, but this makes sense xD
No one can explain what created the Universe. I mean, I could say it was made out of small bacon particules fused with eggs and ketchup, which was eaten by a small rabbit who then exploded and transformed into the Universe.
Is that true? Probably not. It's just an explanation, like religion is, to explain what created the Universe cause certain people want to know. I'm an Atheist, and have no idea what created the Universe. And thats fine, I believe there are some mysteries that shall remain unsolved forever. Religion is simply the man made solution to it.
yup's, there is no proof in anything and everything from pible can be describe with knowledge and technology.
Exactly. Although I don't really believe in Aliens or whatever (though I'm not ruling it out as an impossibility, just an improbability) they are still more plausible then God...
The bacon Bunnie theorie is more plausible than aliens. Actually, I like the bacon Bunnie theorie, I shall star the church of bacon Bunnie! Who is with me!
That's complete illogicality at work there Ten10dix. God would have to be created to create himself? Are you even trying? God exists beyond time. God has no beginning, no middle and no end. He existed before the universe and science has proven that the universe AND time had a beginning.
God was not created. He has simply just been. The same cannot be said for the universe because we know it had a start. Therefore it was created and as this image proves, it couldn't have come from nothing.
Atheism is illogical whereas belief in God is the more logical theory.
What do you mean "Am I even trying"? I'm actually thinking. You, on the other hand, are simply saying "He always exsisted, 'nuff said." How is that at all logical? How is that at all an arguement? I expect arguements like that to come from 7 year olds.
Please, next time you comment or try to argue with either me or someone else, why not actually try to argue intelligently instead of simply putting down "Oh, well, you know, he jsut exsists, ya know? He always has been blah blah blah". How do you know? What told you that? Yep, the Bible told you that. And as I said before, books can lie and the Bible is probably the biggest bunch of lies (or mistakes, as the events could of been real but exagerated, really exagerated, abnormally exagerated) this world has ever seen.
Well, as a humans we are curios and need proof, so all thinking people want more than just ''It is sai'd so, then it is so..'' crap lol. We want to know details, of how thing started, when, where etc. not just like ''the god was there, long before anything else, i dont know how he came to be nor i care..'' lol ;)
If God exists and is all-powerful...
First off, you must define "all-powerful": it is essentially to have infinite power - that is to say, to be completely unlimited in every way, or to have no limits:
Think about it this way: why can't I raise my hand a create whatever I want? Science; or at least, the basic laws of reality that are defined by science. But what then if there was no science and no law; no nature? Well, let's start by removing the basic
natural laws: gravity, energy (EM energy), and weak/strong nuclear forces, starting with gravity.
If there is no gravity, then there is nothing binding me, or any other matter, to any other matter. Thus,
I can move freely throughout the universe (except for my need of oxygen & other elemental resources); in addition, the basic systems that govern the universe will collapse - without gravity, there are no stars, no star systems, no black holes, no galaxies.
Next, remove energy (the big game changer): now, the bonds between molecules, atoms, even the particles of atoms, cease, leaving all matter to decompose back into raw energy. But there is no energy, so matter decomposes into nothing.But then, this should kill me, as I will be without a body. However, for the sake of this hypothesis, I will continue to exist, as a mere consciousness - without shape or mass.
Now then, being that there is no matter: no more atoms, and thus, no more nuclei, there is no more nuclear force.
What am I now? I am one of two things that exist - the other thing is time. However, time is our system for measuring the change of the physical world at a constant rate. Being that there is nothing physical, and more so, no basic laws to change that which would be physical, there is no time.
(continued for length)
Now, I am alone: there is nothing else - no other people, no rules, no nature; nothing.
I myself am nothing, as I have no mass or dimension. Still, I exist, and am the only thing that does exist. Therefore, I am everything.
Nothing limits me, so I may create anything. Not so much as even my consciousness is limited, as it is no longer defined as a compilation of neurons, but by nothing.
Before I decide to create something, time is infinite, as it does not exist, while something (I), which is also everything (1) does exist (1/0 = infinitely irrational; infinity).
Once I create something, time begins. It begins only for what I create, however, as no matter what system or government I create, it will always be beneath me, and therefore not affect me. If I cannot be affected, and that is to say that I cannot be changed, then time holds no pertinence to me, and I am still infinite and timeless.
Even scientifically speaking, it is possible for God to have existed for an infinite amount of time before the creation of our universe, and it is possible that he is "all-powerful".
(continued for length, again - sorry ^_^)
Of course, none of this proves the existence of God, it merely provides scientific validation of the potential for his existence.
The problem still remains that, being that science is a function of God (that is to say, if he exists), it is incapable of measuring him. This means that we are incapable of measuring God, and cannot scientifically determine whether or not he exists (unless it is true that God has penetrated the realms of his and our existence, thus leaving evidence of his existence in our history. However, digging through our past could only prove the existence of God, as not finding evidence would not necessarily mean that he does not exist, but possibly that he simply hasn't interfered in his creation).
It all boils down to: he either exists, or he doesn't; and we may have no way of telling which (and that is why it's called "faith").
Well, yea we cant tell if it is true or not. I am not ruling anything out, all is possible in the world. Maybe there was someone who just appeared and created us later, we cant be sure in anything.
But digging in the past MAY be helpful and help us to learn about our past and how the religion came to be and so on. But since there are many religions that all might be right, we cant rule out any and have to look to religion as whole on the earth. There is no ''Right and Wrong'' religion. Christianity is not the ''True religion'', it is merely an system of belief like Budhism or something else. We possibly in our life will never find it out, but maybe in few hundred years someone will discover something big about our past or cluse of how/where we came with evidence.
And btw nice details lol, well, better to talk to you than the guy above who only made claims and stuff ;)
I'm not saying God has just been. I'm arguing against your silly counter attack when you asked me about God being timeless. I proved it and this image debunks the atheism theory since you cannot explain how nothing can produce something.
We've already established God is timeless and we've also established that nothing cannot produce something. Therefore a timeless being existing before the universe is the more logical theory.
DNA itself is proof of God. Explain why EVERY living creature has DNA where the structure is the same and where the code is the same and yet every individual has a UNIQUE DNA makeup:
Allaboutscience.org
"It wasn't until mid-2001, that the Human Genome Project and Celera Genomics jointly presented the true nature and complexity of the digital code inherent in DNA. We now understand that each human DNA molecule is comprised of chemical bases arranged in approximately 3 billion precise sequences. Even the DNA molecule for the single-celled bacterium, E. coli, contains enough information to fill all the books in any of the world's largest libraries."
Biotechnologyonline.gov.au
"DNA from all living organisms is made of the same sugar and phosphate molecules and the same four bases. Whether DNA is in your cells, those of a cactus, of a worm or a bacterium, it is made of the same chemicals and has the same structure."
Coincidences on this scale do not happen and to say so would be blind faith. God is the more logical theory. DNA has more complexity than computer codes. Atheism debunked again. What further evidence do you need?
LOL... too much i am afraid to convince me... ;)
God is more logical theory..., it is theory like any other lol that CAN NOT BE PROVEN. That is why it is called THEORY (we don't know the answers, so we present possibility, an theory of something).
DNA is complexer than computer code, but that does not mean we should start to beleave in god.
And how can timeless being come to be? EVERYTHING has an start. All come from something. And well, atheist are more like your god since he is an atheist too (unless he beleaves in hes own creator ;)), so we are quite similar to that guy.
"DNA is complexer than computer code, but that does not mean we should start to beleave in god."
So according to your logic, computer codes popped into existence too. Humans never had anything to do with them. They have no creator. Like I said, computer codes show they are designed via their order and logical function. Likewise, DNA shows it's been designed by a mind simply because of how it functions in a similar way. Accidents do not lead to similarities between human creations which have been designed by minds.
God is the logical theory here and you cannot say why your theory is any better. God is further proven by the countless miracles humans have witnesses since the beginning of time and that's excluding eye witness accounts of spirits.
Everything doesn't have a start. Read my latest article. Science has proven that time only started when the universe BEGAN. Time didn't exist before and therefore anything that did exist before time would be timeless and neverending.
God is hardly an atheist because he knows he exists. An atheist is someone who denies gods and the supernatural. God knows he exists and knows the supernatural exists since he created them. To him, all is natural and understandable.
God is a natural part of the cosmos.
Lol, i did not say they popped into existance, dont make things up lol ;). I said, it is complex but do not prove existance of god ;).
And i am not saying any theory is better. All of them are EQUAL, because there are NO credible evidence lol. If someone would say, that he has been on some other planet far away, you would beleave him? Stuff happens, and if you beleave in god you call it miracle. Simple as that.
And i am not ruling out spirits. Hell, i have even encountered such thing so those i am not ruling out, unless they were some well made tricks lol. There is mysteries in the world, but still again, do not prove god. All mysteries and miracles cant be translated as god's plan or god's work etc.
And god is atheist, or he is self lover, one of those 2 things. God can't pray towards himself, or can he lol? If god is higest person out there, then he must be atheist, unless he beleaves in something higer than himself. Or he has big ego and self admires, a lot lol, but i think that is not the case no? ;)
If someone said he had been on some far away planet, I wouldn't believe him. Would you? You're an atheist so it would be plausible that he just randomly teleported there and back because the atheist theory - and don't deny it - really does teach that the universe and all in it were due to random chance. That's what atheist scientists think.
So you've seen spirits - as have I - and yet you deny God? What's your view on spirits then? How can we have eternal souls that continue to exist after the death of the flesh if no god exists?
The complexity, design and order of DNA doesn't give full proof of God but it puts a very good argument forth that you have yet to debunk. Saying "It doesn't prove God" isn't really a good counter attack. You're an atheist, so what makes your ideas better than mine?
An atheist is someone who denies the existence of God. God equals the being that created us. God cannot be an atheist because he knows that God exists because he is God. God is a god. He knows a god exists because that's his nature. You deny the existence of a being known as a god but God cannot because that is what he is and he knows that.
God doesn't have a species or a gender but if we were to give him the name of a species...well...god would be correct just as we are humans.
Well no i would not beleave him. That is my point lol. It is exactly same that you beleave people who tell they had an miracle. Atheism means that person do not beleave in just god. Atheism has nothing to do with how universe were created theory.
Well, i dont think spirits are proof of god. They are simply yet another thing we can not explain yet due no knowledge in the area. And people dont like to deal with things they do not understand, so there are no research being made to determine what Ghosts/spirits people see are.
And i am not trying to make an counter attack lol. I am atheist, but i dont think my ideas are better than yours. I think it is the other way around mate ;). I think all ideas are equall, in my eyes atleast, since there are no proof in any theory, i mean credible proof. So in my eyes, all theorys are equal.
Well, i dont think god beleaves in him and worship himself as god. I think he could only be in the middle. Otherwise he is just worshiping himself lol.
Atheism does have something to do with how the universe was created because atheism states no creator was behind it. You say all theories are equal but present yourself as an atheist which suggests otherwise.
lol atheist is person, who do not beleave in god, but more in the science side. BUT in my eyes all theories are equal until someone gives credible evidence to make some theory 100% right/wrong... Kinda pointless to argue with you cause you just wont quit lol...
Atheists are not really on the science side since you can't really debunk the argument in the image and you haven't even debunked the arguments presented in my article. You don't believe all theories are equal because you're an atheist and not an agnostic.
Crystals, aminoacids, DNA, planets, galaxies, stars, nebulae, all are very complex things the origin of which doesn't require a creator. We know how these form in nature.
An atheist is someone who doesn't belive a god exists. It's as much of a belief as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
They're arguing about the Intelligent Design here, nothing more.
Yeah and your computer formed from nothing too.
Planets, galaxies and stars had beginnings. Nebulae are formed from dead stars and produce more stars. Planets are said to be formed from gases as are galaxies. Where did these resources come from and what made them so complex?
No. We don't know those things but the blueprints of the designer have been left for us to understand.
The naturalistic explanation to how my computer "formed" is that the parts were produced in a factory, shipped to the hardware store, I bought them, and then assembled my PC. Your comparison is a massive logical fallacy at best.
The naturalistic explanation to how the universe originated is that time and space, and energy, were created in the big bang, not long after the big bang, energy condensed in to matter. First into quarks, electrons and similar particles, then protons and neutrons, to form hydrogen, helium and some lithium. No creator required yet. Stars formed less than a billion years after the big bang, huge, extremely massive stars that burned all their fuel in a few million years and exploded in supernovae, spraying the heavy elements they formed into space, only to coallesce again in new stars which died too, the sun is a population 3 star, so two stear-deaths precede it.
In the accretion disk of the Sun, 32 planets formed which collided several times, some were ejected, some shattered, that how we got down to 8, how we got our Moon (Theia slamming into Earth), and the asteroid belt, where a planet apparently shattered. Life either began on earth, through abiogenesis - this process is proven to be plausible, considering more kinds of aminoacids were formed in experiments than there are in our bodies, and that life entirely from non-life has been created in the lab too - or got here from somewhere else, through panspermia. All it took for life to take off would be a single self-replicating polymer, mRNA being a likely candidate. Lipids are known to form cell membrane-like structures by themselves, without any "life" in them. Once life started, it evolved, giving rise to us after 3.8 billion years.
No need for a creator here what so ever. Either the universe is the way it is because it's the only way it can be, or the universe is one of infinite multiverses, each differing from ours in varying degrees. Who knows, some may even have gravity that pulls stuff into cubes instead of spheres. Either way, no solid evidence for a creator has been found so far.
/Highschool science education.
You use the same logical fallacies every creationist does. Either stop that, or I see no point in continuing this discussion since you obviously are not capable of being honest.
Mm true that. I think most of christians skip or ignore science education regarding of ''how we were created'' and all that stuff, since it goes agains everything they beleave, and it just do not fit them.
There are many theories of how the life were created on this planet, one is that you talked about, one is that life came with crashed asteroid what was piece of some other planet that had life and many others. There have been indications of bacterial life on other planets and their moons in our solar system. How did they come to be? Did god try to create life there aswell lol? Am not so sure ;)
And there is possibility of infinate relities as well, infinate number of alterate you, me and world. Some of those realities have no human life, some have still dinosaurs, some has united world nation etc. So the science and all that stuff is very complicated to understand.
Most Christians are actually very well educated in science. Have you still not read my article?
Moddb.com
srry i do not read all kind of rubbish and junk people post to internet, nor beleave it. Well, anyways, you live your life with the god, and we live our life without the god. The result is still same, only we live more freely and are not afraid of being smitten down lol.
Btw do all christians go to heaven? I mean, you make a sin, then you go confess in church, and all sins just dissapear? And there are non christian people out there that are way friendlier and more peacful than some christians. So if they not beleave in same god, they will go ''hell'', and the christians who hurt others etc. go to heaven still?
That's the article I wrote on Moddb and you're reading my comments right now so you're already reading my arguments just not the complete parts. You say you don't want to read the article because you've probably already done so and saw that you couldn't debunk just like Ten10dix couldn't.
BTW. It's the Catholics who go to Church to confess sins. All others Christians pray to God but this irrelevant to the discussion. God can send all you humans to Hell for all I care. He created us and can do what he wants.
Unfair? Okay then. Next time you get a spot, don't pick it. Next time you make something you don't like, don't throw it away or destroy it. Don't be a hypocrite and then maybe God will accept you into Heaven despite your sins. If God made us from his own spirit, then shouldn't he be free to dispose of us as we dispose of things we don't like? Fortunately for us, God isn't like us humans. Even the lowliest ant is loved by God and God loves the sinners as he loves the righteous thus spoke Christ.
Accepting Christ and trying to refrain from sin and do good with all your heart is all that God requires of you. Failure and denial shouldn't really be an option but failure hits you with the second death (Revelation says the Lake of Fire is the second death) which you atheists can't really complain about because you expect death and non-existence to be after life anyway.
But where is your proof that God requires us to do something? And why we need to worship him 100% to be all-good person? Has he ever said it to us or the people just thaught it is a fun thing to do?
"And there is possibility of infinate relities as well, infinate number of alterate you, me and world. Some of those realities have no human life, some have still dinosaurs, some has united world nation etc. So the science and all that stuff is very complicated to understand."
Yeah and where's your proof? You believe in Star Wars, Doctor Who and yet deny God who has infinitely more proof? I think you're a troll now.
You may not agree with my arguments but you've yet to answer or debunk them and saying "Oh gravity came about like this and The Big Bang brought time and energy here" isn't really answering the question. Science doesn't explain why these things are the way they are and science doesn't explain why everything seems purposely created and structured. Logic does though.
@Helge
Logic and Science go hand in hand. If you're just looking at the science side, you won't see everything.
I don't need science to tell me that the resources on the earth were put here by an intelligent mind. Logic tells me that. Science just shows me how the resources are structured (which further prove God's existence I might add).
Now get me that proof that your computer was created by a man or I shall conclude that it popped up from nowhere just like you've concluded that about the universe.
"My computer was made in a factory."
How do you know that? Because of how it looks? The universe looks more complex and better structured and yet you deny God there. You don't have to see a creator to know he exists and your computer answer pretty much debunks your entire argument because you agree that you don't need to see a designer to know one exists.
You've shot yourself in the foot.
First of all i dont beleave in Star Wars, and i have never seen doktor who. And the multiverse theory is an theory like any other out there.
And man are you stupid or retarded or something, computers come out of factory lol... All pieces or full built come there, it is known. Or you think that god is magically creating PC's and laptops for us XD??
You obviously do believe in Doctor Who because it teaches the ideas that multiple realities exist despite there being no proof. Doctor Who is a sci-fi fiction though and doesn't say these things are facts whereas you do.
I know other computers come out of factories but you can't prove my one did. You only believe your one came from the factory because it looks designed and it's the norm for something showing order to have a creator like the universe.
If anyone is being retarded it's you. You've contributed nothing meaningful to this entire debate. You've just spammed sci-fi fantasies across the board while sprouting nonsense about atheists knowing more science than Christians.
Pfth. Yeah right. Sci-fi fiction isn't science mate. Sorry.
I know Sci-fi isn't science. Sci-fi is built on scientdific facts and theories.
And you can prove that pc comes from warehouse if you have same pc or things like some other guy, who did bought the pc directly from factory. Anyways, it can be atleast proved through research, and it give credible info unlike the existance of god.
And i dont think atheists know more science than christians. Anyone who wanna deal with science can learn it, there is no bonus in learning for christians or atheists. But why are u imagining the things and making up stuff? To see what i respond so you can argue on??
Sci-fi isn't built on scientific facts. It's built on theories and imagination alone just like a fantasy. Sci-fi says "what if?" just like fantasy does. You can't prove my computer came from the warehouse. I bet you couldn't even prove that your one did. Do you have records? Did you see it created there? Just because you see humans creating them now doesn't mean your one was created by them. But you'll say "Since they are creating similar things to my computer, it's likely they created mine too." In that case: We humans ourselves have created universes within games populated by NPC's who can even be programmed to go about their daily lives.
In reality, you look at your watch, phone, computer and town and believe they are designed because they look that way. That's exactly how everyone views the earth too before denying God's existence because "bad stuff happened to me!"
As for the science comment, check your fist reply on this page (second page). You did say that.
@*SGU*TheDestiny
Yes but you have no proof that your one came from the warehouse nor do you have proof that that somewhere down the line, your family didn't just pop into existence. How do you know that your family has been here since the start of the world? Maybe they just popped into existence too!
God is not imaginary. I've already given the proof for him with DNA being the prime example and you have yet to debunk my argument or prove that DNA can be created by randomness without guidance. Can a brain dead man reproduce the Mona Lisa? Nope.
Arguing with you is like arguing with a two year old. You just won't understand or listen to reason.
Well, where is proof that the computer did not came from warehouse. There are documentaries etc. that prove it. Or who you think is creating the stuff? This is starting to be like i would talkt to an 4 year old who don't know anything about real life lol. If you think god is creating everythin we see today it is fine lol. Some people just have to have an imaginary friend lol, too sad that they are grown ups....
Anyways i can perfectly live without god EXACTLY same way as people who beleave in god. Only difference is that i do not waste my time on imaginary friends who i hope to solve all my problems lol, in other words i have more freedom to do things and enjoy stuff.
It's been a long time since I researched about plants but I believe that even they have a rather complex system consisting of a "brain" cell that controls everything.
The brain itself is a wonder. It's the most powerful tool in existence.
And why is it that we have ALL THE TOOLS AND RESOURCES needed to cure ALL illnesses? We have the resources needed for technology and even space travel. Concerning illnesses, I personally believe that cures for all illnesses exist but many just haven't been found yet but as we progress, we find cures. We now have better fighting chances against illnesses such as cancer and one day, medicine and treatments will be discovered which give people a 100% chance.
If my memory serves me correct, there's a certain chemical in stars and if a star had any less or a little bit more of this chemical than is the needed amount, it wouldn't produce the needed elements for life. Is that a coincidence? If memory serves me correct, most stars have the same measurement of chemicals too (71% hydrogen and 27% helium). Is that coincidence?
The sun plays a part in producing oxygen as do the plants and trees on earth. They work in harmony with one another like a mechanism.
The atheism theory requires as much blind faith as many religious people often give to their faiths. You have to believe in coincidences. Coincidences are possible but do the statements above sound like coincidences to you? They don't to me.
Atheists were around in Ancient Greece as philosophers and other philosophers debated against them with similar arguments that I use. Belief in God isn't because of fear of the unknown or due to humans placing a place holder on the unknown, it's because the universe looks designed and the things in it work like they've been purposely constructed too.
I refuse to believe the earth and universe popped up for no reason just like I refuse to believe that the computer I am using popped up for no reason. All three had a creator.
Helge129, ever answer my questions (instead of avoiding) or there really is not point in continuing this debate because you're creating strawman arguments in a odious attempt to support a lie.
Strawman? No. You are making strawmen, and keep using one logical fallacy after the other, particularly the argument from personal incredulity. This discussion is over then.
Fair enough but all can see that you created the strawman arguments and ignored my questions which you can't answer thus proving that atheism is a rather flawed theory.
Don't come into an argument you weren't originally part of when you have no intention of arguing or answering my points. The onus is on you to debunk my article (proving that the above image's scientific method does NOT apply to God) and this image which proves that the atheist theory is a lie.
Moddb.com
No. Your explanation is debunked within this image. Big Bangs don't just originate from nothing. Scientific method has disproved that. Something would have to have existed to produce The Big Bang and something with intelligence would have exist to make DNA complex, ordered and structured and operated in sequence like a binary code.
Something with intelligence would have needed to make it so that the stars - the supporters of life - would be the biggest bodies in a solar system with the biggest gravitational pull. Why is it that we aren't all revolving around some giant big dead gas planet? Why is it that all solar systems are formed by stars which are also the very same things that give us heat, light and allow our crops to grow? Why is it that stars produce a recycling process? You still haven't answered that.
I don't believe in coincidences but if you want to continue to believe in coincidences, be my guest. The top scientists throughout history didn't.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html
What scientists are atheists? Richard Dawkins - who only ever shouts about God - and some unnamed scientists who have never achieved anything? Impressive.
Isaac Newton, Kepler, Gregor Mendel, Lord Kevin and Galileo would like a word with you.
Time, space and energy were not created before The Big Bang or after. That's true but The Big Bang didn't create them and The Big Bang didn't just come from nothing (this image debunks that). Something caused it and considering the design that followed afterwards and the intelligence it shows, I'll take my chances with a god.
The Big Bang originated exactly from nothing, through a quantum fluctuation. That's all the universe is. A gigantic quantum-fluctuation of nothing.
The Big Bang didn't originate from nothing and no top scientist believes that as these articles prove:
Science.nasa.gov
"The Universe must have been born in this single violent event which came to be known as the "Big Bang."
Science.nationalgeographic.com
"The big bang theory leaves several major questions unanswered. One is the original cause of the big bang itself. Several answers have been proposed to address this fundamental question, but none has been proven—and even adequately testing them has proven to be a formidable challenge."
No scientist believes it originated from nothing. The second site and paragraph I quoted speaks against that. Time to get your facts from proper qualified science sites and not from some random guy who is bias against God.
Stephen Hawking disgrees. There can be no cause for the big bang, because a cause requires time and space, neither of which EXISTED before the Big Bang. The obvious conclusion, if you have any scientific education at all, is that the big bang was a quantum fluctuation.
A cause doesn't require time and space which both came into existence with the universe. Stephen Hawking is creating a rather illogical argument which both NASA and the National Geographic sites disagree with. Hell nearly every other scientist would disagree with Hawking here and the quantum fluctuation isn't even credible and not many scientists I've heard of would even accept it.
The quantum fluctuation theory is debunked with this image. It's your job to prove it's possible for your argument to even hold any validity.