Trainer Leveling & Perks Thread - Pokémon3D

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I've had the idea to give trainers themselves a leveling system. All battles, regardless of win or loss, grant experience to the trainer. Wild battles give a modest amount of experience, trainer battles give a substantial amount of experience, gym battles give more experience than regular trainer battles, gym leader battles give a substantial amount more, and Elite 4 battles give a massive amount. Losing battles gives 50% (or so) less experience than winning, and catching a Pokemon would give a different amount than a KO (I think it should give more, my friend thinks it should give less. Thoughts?). As the player advances in levels he/she gains perks. The perk system could be laid out in a tree... like that of Skyrim.

Here are some of my ideas for the perks (I came up with the names as I wrote this, be kind). I also added the ones people posted in response to my original thread.

• Ace Trainer: (get rid of the badge loyalty grants)

1. lvl 10: Pokemon up to lvl 30 will obey you.
2. lvl 20: Pokemon up to lvl 40 will obey you.
3. lvl 30: Pokemon up to lvl 60 will obey you.
4. lvl 50: Pokemon up to lvl 80 will obey you.
5. lvl 75: Pokemon up to lvl 100 will obey you.

• Ballsmith:

1. lvl 20: Can craft Pokeballs from Apricorns.
2. lvl 35: Can craft Greatballs from Apricorns.
3. lvl 50: Can craft Ultraballs from Apricorns.
4. lvl 100: Can craft Masterballs from Apricorns. (only one tree per region)

• lvl 15: Screw You, Oak: Can ride bike anywhere. (only available in single player)
• lvl 25: Haggler: 15% better prices at shops.
• Curve Wrecker:

1. lvl 25: Catch Rates are 5% better.
2. lvl 40: Catch Rates are 10% better.
3. lvl 60: Catch Rates are 15% better.
4. lvl 80: Catch Rates are 20% better.
5. lvl 100: Catch Rates are 25% better.

• lvl 30: Your Milk Money, Too: 10% more money from winning battles.
• lvl 50: Performance Enhancer: Powerup items are 25% more effective. (only available in single player)
• lvl 10: Go For the Gold: Running speed increased by 15%.
• lvl 5: Ooh, Shiny!: 5% better Shiny rate.
• lvl 30: Get Busy: Breeding and hatching times decreased by 10%
• lvl 25: Increases Repel Effectiveness by 50%.
• lvl 5: Sneaky, Sneaky: Lowers speed and encounter rate.
• lvl 50: ...Right Into My Trap: Craft traps to lure Pokemon into inescapable battles. (only available in single player)
• lvl 20: Come At Me!: Throw stones to make Pokemon more aggressive during battle and easier to catch. Has a 10% chance of enemy getting a critical hit or fleeing on next turn.
• lvl 40: Elemental lores: Friendship rises quicker with Pokemon. Pokemon with dual-types increase friendship even faster.
• lvl 80: Elemental balls: Able to craft Pokeballs to catch a specific type with ease.
• lvl 70: Elemental Force: STAB attacks of this type now have an effect of 1.75x instead of 1.5x.
• lvl 15: Elemental Attraction: Gains higher chance to encounter shiny Pokemon with this specific type.
• lvl 90: Parkour: Enables the player to climb a single ledge.

The idea came to me (encouraged by a friend), just now, to create a separate tree that would let the player chose a type specialty. What are your thoughts?

Thanks for voting. Please post any more suggestions here rather than my original thread.

EDIT: Named the rest, added unlock levels, and ranks.

Edited by: MrTimoshi

pinned

Thank you much, sir.

Might want to come up with at which level's these perks are granted. Smaller ones being first naturally and the best ones towards the end (That is if you decide to cap all levels at 100).

haffoxtrot wrote: Might want to come up with at which level's these perks are granted.

Done.

I was hesitant until I saw the perks themselves.
Dang this is good
Makes the game really unique ya know

Why thank you.

What do you people think of being able to craft status items from berries? Buy empty bottles, make potions, fill said bottles with said potions.

Edited by: MrTimoshi

MrTimoshi wrote: Why thank you.

What do you people think of being able to craft status items from berries? Buy empty bottles, make potions, fill said bottles with said potions.

I assume you are talking about items that cure negative statuses: We don't want to completely defeat the purpose of a pokemart either as we can already craft balls. Also I would never use potions outside of the league I'll come up with ideas to make this feature more interesting though. It does look like something we can use.

tavmania wrote: I'll come up with ideas to make this feature more interesting though

By all means. Interesting the crap out of it.

Edited by: MrTimoshi

I think this would be great. ^^ maybe some for berry's that grow faster and producing more as well. Also special skills depending on element type would be nice. like you as a trainier could use skills in the field relating to your element.

Edited by: saruish

I really don't like the idea of leveling the trainer in addition to your party, beyond gaining badges, but crafting would be cool. Things like the thrown stones and traps could easily fit into a crafting system. A crafting system also plays into collecting pokemon, you could gather materials out in the field too. The crafting doesn't even require leveling to work, minecraft has a good sense of progression based on what materials you have access to.

Just like how the areas you can access in pokemon determines what pokemon you can catch etc, as you progress through the land you could gain access to materials that unlock a new set of cool toys for the trainer to use. The sort of things you get could ramp up, from simple ones like the rock up to all kinds of fancy things like gadgets that change the weather or something that attracts shinies like the last perk in the list. A lot of the more game changing things should be singleplayer only like some of the items in the OPs list.

I know it can seem tempting to add more systems like this on top of pokemon, but would perks really add that much depth to the game? Are a bunch of % increases to things worth the time to implement it?

Dracohouston wrote: I know it can seem tempting to add more systems like this on top of pokemon, but would perks really add that much depth to the game? Are a bunch of % increases to things worth the time to implement it?

Well... considering nilllzz was interested in this, he wouldn't have a problem with implementing it. Thanks for your input, though. That's what this thread is for. I understand your point, but think of it this way: When you start the game your character is a rookie trainer, still learning, and the more you win/lose increases your understanding of Pokemon and training. With greater understanding comes greater talent. The perks are intended more as a representation of the trainer's growing talent.

This would be directly influenced by how much you train your Pokemon without influencing your Pokemons' training itself. It wouldn't hinder your progress in the game, but it would keep Rare Candy spamming and cheating in check. The only outcome is you become a better trainer throughout your journey.

@nilllzz. What's your goal for the poll? How many votes until you deem it over?

Edited by: MrTimoshi

MrTimoshi wrote:

Dracohouston wrote: I know it can seem tempting to add more systems like this on top of pokemon, but would perks really add that much depth to the game? Are a bunch of % increases to things worth the time to implement it?

Well... considering nilllzz was interested in this, he wouldn't have a problem with implementing it. Thanks for your input, though. That's what this thread is for. I understand your point, but think of it this way: When you start the game your character is a rookie trainer, still learning, and the more you win/lose increases your understanding of Pokemon and training. With greater understanding comes greater talent. The perks are intended more as a representation of the trainer's growing talent.

This would be directly influenced by how much you train your Pokemon without influencing your Pokemons' training itself. It wouldn't hinder your progress in the game, but it would keep Rare Candy spamming and cheating in check. The only outcome is you become a better trainer throughout your journey.

I agree. Plus it would give a certain feal to it that is not much express in other games that you , your self are improving with your Pokemon's As well as having certain outcomes of how your character develops into what it eventually becomes. This may also give out mubitable outcomes.

Voted yes because this is an awesome idea that just can't happen in a ROM hack or something of that nature.

It's probably going to add a lot of work on nilllzz's end, especially considering that there is still a lot to implement yet with regards to level design and data implementation. It will also take a good deal of play-testing for balancing and ironing out of details, which would require much more progress on a finished product than what exists right now.
I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, I'm just pointing out that this will take a while before it becomes as awesome as we all know it can be. And I'm in it for the long haul, because I want to see this done and done well.

On a completely different note, a few thoughts/ideas that I have:

• How would it be best to organize these into an in-game menu that can actually be useful and understandable? A handful of 'trees' (Skyrim), a column-based ladder (KoA:Reckoning), INSERT OTHER ORGANIZATIONAL METHOD FROM YOUR FAVORITE RPG HERE, use levels exclusively as prereqs for perks rather than a perk progression, or have all perks unlocked automatically once you reach a certain level?

• If the perks are going to be sectioned off into trees/ladders/somethingofthatnature, then may I suggest Ace Trainer, Ballsmith, Collector (capture X amount of pokemon), Curve Wrecker, Elementalist, Mechanic (bike, crafting, rocks, traps, other unique game mechanics), and Miscellaneous/BetterNameHere for different sections of perks.

• To add on to the type specialty perk, perhaps that could be the first perk of the Elemental skill tree or something like that. If you chose the perk, then you would specify a type and unlock the rest of the skill tree, since all those perks correspond to a single element type. This would also allow someone (like myself) who likes a balanced team type-wise to not require the selection of any one type to specialize in, if (s)he so chooses not to.

Edited by: admiralal91

MrTimoshi wrote:

Dracohouston wrote: I know it can seem tempting to add more systems like this on top of pokemon, but would perks really add that much depth to the game? Are a bunch of % increases to things worth the time to implement it?

Well... considering nilllzz was interested in this, he wouldn't have a problem with implementing it. Thanks for your input, though. That's what this thread is for. I understand your point, but think of it this way: When you start the game your character is a rookie trainer, still learning, and the more you win/lose increases your understanding of Pokemon and training. With greater understanding comes greater talent. The perks are intended more as a representation of the trainer's growing talent.

This would be directly influenced by how much you train your Pokemon without influencing your Pokemons' training itself. It wouldn't hinder your progress in the game, but it would keep Rare Candy spamming and cheating in check. The only outcome is you become a better trainer throughout your journey.

@nilllzz. What's your goal for the poll? How many votes until you deem it over?

You can easily justify it like that, which is fine, but I just wonder if a game with a lot of progression in it already needs another xp bar? A lot of your ideas sound like good abilities to give to the trainer (that stone throw in particular should really be added regardless of if it is a perk or not ), but adding another xp bar to fill when you already have a lot of xp bars to fill seems like a poor way to implement it. But that's just, like, my opinion, man

Edited by: Dracohouston

Dracohouston wrote: You can easily justify it like that, which is fine, but I just wonder if a game with a lot of progression in it already needs another xp bar? A lot of your ideas sound like good abilities to give to the trainer (that stone throw in particular should really be added regardless of if it is a perk or not ), but adding another xp bar to fill when you already have a lot of xp bars to fill seems like a poor way to implement it. But that's just, like, my opinion, man

I can full understand and appreciate your opinion, but I don't think it's as intrusive as you think it would be (with the exception of loyalty perks). Everything else would be an add on to what the trainers have been able to since R/B/Y. Only the Ace Trainer set would actually take anything away from the original gameplay. As far as it being one more thing that the player would need to keep track of, it wouldn't be difficult. The progression would go on in the background while you train your Pokemon. It would only notify you of your character's level up and when you don't have the correct perk to perform a specific action. Think of it like frosting on a cake... it doesn't change the cake at all, it just enhances the enjoyment of eating it.

MrTimoshi wrote:
I can full understand and appreciate your opinion, but I don't think it's as intrusive as you think it would be (with the exception of loyalty perks). Everything else would be an add on to what the trainers have been able to since R/B/Y. Only the Ace Trainer set would actually take anything away from the original gameplay. As far as it being one more thing that the player would need to keep track of, it wouldn't be difficult. The progression would go on in the background while you train your Pokemon. It would only notify you of your character's level up and when you don't have the correct perk to perform a specific action. Think of it like frosting on a cake... it doesn't change the cake at all, it just enhances the enjoyment of eating it.

Oh I don't doubt that it would mesh with the game if put in, I just think in a game with so much collection in it a lot of this stuff could easily exist as items you craft (or kurt? leveling craftsmen from D3, anyone?)

Like, at least the trainer xp bar will be ticking along as you level your pokemon, but it desyncs the progression of options in pokemon from being based on what places you can go to (for catching new pokemon, getting key items, completing quests/errands and so on). It can be good in letting you grind up a little to gain access to a perk before you move on to a new area, but if you move through the game faster than the pacing of trainer levels intended there is a bit of a disconnect between those paths of progression. If these perks came as you progressed through the game world it'd be a nice incentive to keep going and visit more towns and fully explore the routes

Dracohouston wrote: Oh I don't doubt that it would mesh with the game if put in, I just think in a game with so much collection in it a lot of this stuff could easily exist as items you craft (or kurt? leveling craftsmen from D3, anyone?)

Like, at least the trainer xp bar will be ticking along as you level your pokemon, but it desyncs the progression of options in pokemon from being based on what places you can go to (for catching new pokemon, getting key items, completing quests/errands and so on). It can be good in letting you grind up a little to gain access to a perk before you move on to a new area, but if you move through the game faster than the pacing of trainer levels intended there is a bit of a disconnect between those paths of progression. If these perks came as you progressed through the game world it'd be a nice incentive to keep going and visit more towns and fully explore the routes

I don't see much of a reason to grind for trainer levels except for the ball smith at 100/catch rate perks really. I'll be more likely to battle against trainers I already fought to gain money, to buy an extra ultra ball (or 4 extra pokeballs) than I would grind my way up to level 75 to obtain great balls with the same effect as an ultra ball. Just no. If you want "incentive" to fully explore the world, simply put a duckton of interesting pokemon to catch out there. Quests with simple yet very nice rewards, the 100 possible TM's (if not more) along the routes.

The idea about the perks is that they are nice to have when they become available, but they don't massively change a player's way of playing these games when they kick in. Although I can understand people don't like the idea of the desynchronizing: The Ballsmith perk for an ultra ball, for example, should come available somewhere around the time that it becomes available in the pokemart too. You can use whatever apricorns you have laying around to craft them, or you can buy whatever you need. It's more like an option than necessary. But, you could also grind your way up for ultra balls to be available before even leaving Cherrygrove town. Is it useful? Nope, I'd rather buy a bag full of pokeballs by selling the apricorns than just a single ultra ball.

I believe all of these perks fit in this idea of "background bonuses". Personally, I only wish for the perk trees layouts to look like the Skyrim model, not the crazy bonuses themselves to create massive overkills. Let's give the trainer shouts so they can aid their pokemon in battle!

Edited by: tavmania

tavmania wrote:
I don't see much of a reason to grind for trainer levels except for the ball smith at 100/catch rate perks really. I'll be more likely to battle against trainers I already fought to gain money, to buy an extra ultra ball (or 4 extra pokeballs) than I would grind my way up to level 75 to obtain great balls with the same effect as an ultra ball. Just no. If you want "incentive" to fully explore the world, simply put a duckton of interesting pokemon to catch out there. Quests with simple yet very nice rewards, the 100 possible TM's (if not more) along the routes.

Yeah I wouldn't grind up for it, I'm just saying it is a possibility, as a leveling system it depends on players sticking to the recommended pace of the game. When I was a little kid playing pokemon blue then silver I'd get attached to a single pokemon and overlevel it so I could beat the gyms and elite 4 with it. The blurb on the back of the box told me this was wrong

But try telling that to 12 year old me, charizard all the way!

I'm not really saying there is no incentive to explore, there is, I just wanted to point out that there are already items in the game and the gathering of apricorns, the bonuses could just expand on that instead of needing a whole new system

tavmania wrote:
The idea about the perks is that they are nice to have when they become available, but they don't massively change a player's way of playing these games when they kick in. Although I can understand people don't like the idea of the desynchronizing: The Ballsmith perk for an ultra ball, for example, should come available somewhere around the time that it becomes available in the pokemart too. You can use whatever apricorns you have laying around to craft them, or you can buy whatever you need. It's more like an option than necessary. But, you could also grind your way up for ultra balls to be available before even leaving Cherrygrove town. Is it useful? Nope, I'd rather buy a bag full of pokeballs by selling the apricorns than just a single ultra ball.

I believe all of these perks fit in this idea of "background bonuses". Personally, I only wish for the perk trees layouts to look like the Skyrim model, not the crazy bonuses themselves to create massive overkills. Let's give the trainer shouts so they can aid their pokemon in battle!

This is something we might not be able to come to agreement on, subjective I guess. Some of the ideas floated sound like more than 'background bonuses'. Honestly I'd prefer whatever comes of this thread has nice game changing abilities in it to give this version of pokemon its own flavour. It'd be a little disappointing if it was just a bunch of % increases coming online over time

I did say "I believe" they fit within the background bonuses Feel free to make suggestions to change them if they aren't.

If I were to cut all the percentages and just keep a couple of perks that do not boost the percentages, we could just make them into key items that can be given as a reward for a quest. The key items enable special features such as throwing a rock during a battle, or even pokecandy during battle (I think they were called pokeblocks in gen 3), a pokegear plugin to ignore incoming calls from professor oak for the bike thingy, a part of the stuff that was mentioned above. No trainer levels needed to enable quests, just availability.

I sincerely do think there should be a shiny percentage booster though. I have had only one in my entire life, and it was a shiny sentret :3 was so proud until I found a second shiny sentret... Lol

Edited by: tavmania

Dracohouston wrote: It'd be a little disappointing if it was just a bunch of % increases coming online over time

The purpose of this thread is to gauge interest and present new ideas. If you have ideas on how to make it not a bunch of percent increases, please present them. As it stands, less than half of the current perks are percent increases. If you get rid of the Ace Trainer perk set nothing would change. You could completely ignore trainer leveling if you want. I'm not saying "get rid of town unlocks"... those would all still be there. Kurt will still craft Pokeballs, marts will still sell everything you need, gym leaders still give TMs/HMs, etc. I just think this would add an interesting new dimension to the Pokemon universe.

MrTimoshi wrote:

Dracohouston wrote: It'd be a little disappointing if it was just a bunch of % increases coming online over time

The purpose of this thread is to gauge interest and present new ideas. If you have ideas on how to make it not a bunch of percent increases, please present them. As it stands, less than half of the current perks are percent increases. If you get rid of the Ace Trainer perk set nothing would change. You could completely ignore trainer leveling if you want. I'm not saying "get rid of town unlocks"... those would all still be there. Kurt will still craft Pokeballs, marts will still sell everything you need, gym leaders still give TMs/HMs, etc. I just think this would add an interesting new dimension to the Pokemon universe.

To be honest it not much a new dimension if you think about it. it just a part of the poke verse the games didnt explore too much ^^; . lol in the anime tho ash was eventually able to use aura and people did get special skill relating to what type of trainer they are. From pyschi's,ghost,to bugs. they all had some sort of skill that related to what type of trainier they are.

@ Dracohouston Yea. I use to do that as well untill. I wanted to actually develop a real team instead of one overpower starter. that where I truly started to experience the game <.<;...but that started about ...emerald version when I started to build a actual team. then ended on platium verison.

MrTimoshi wrote:
The purpose of this thread is to gauge interest and present new ideas. If you have ideas on how to make it not a bunch of percent increases, please present them. As it stands, less than half of the current perks are percent increases. If you get rid of the Ace Trainer perk set nothing would change. You could completely ignore trainer leveling if you want. I'm not saying "get rid of town unlocks"... those would all still be there. Kurt will still craft Pokeballs, marts will still sell everything you need, gym leaders still give TMs/HMs, etc. I just think this would add an interesting new dimension to the Pokemon universe.

I didn't say they were all percentage increases, mate. I said they'd be really boring if they were. I am aware this doesn't remove any of the current exploration too.

saruish wrote:
@ Dracohouston Yea. I use to do that as well untill. I wanted to actually develop a real team instead of one overpower starter. that where I truly started to experience the game <.<;...but that started about ...emerald version when I started to build a actual team. then ended on platium verison.

I used to have to take a bus to and from school, it was an hour each way. After I got my starter to 100 I ended up making a team because I had loads of time. I didn't get much appreciation for the strategy behind the game until I played the pokemon stadium games and did the challenges and leagues

I did not get to play the generations after gold/silver

Edited by: Dracohouston

The other trainer getting xp when you lose is gunna be too OP when your starting out. they should get OP once you beat the game one time through. thats the only time they should be more OP. just saying my thoughts. and the other thing is. i don't recomend "Craftable Masterballs" now thats just a little overboard.1 standard Masterball is good enough. otherwise i'd stick with ultra's for the adventure.

EpicFurion wrote: The other trainer getting xp when you lose is gunna be too OP when your starting out. they should get OP once you beat the game one time through. thats the only time they should be more OP. just saying my thoughts. and the other thing is. i don't recomend "Craftable Masterballs" now thats just a little overboard.1 standard Masterball is good enough. otherwise i'd stick with ultra's for the adventure.

Agreed. I think craft MasterBalls is too much OverPower...