Dream Casters' Duel is being copied. I'll put aside the cartoonish-dream-themed and future-tech+lucid-dreaming mods being made by ex-DCD watchers for now, and jump right to specifics.
Compare this from the dcdDesignDoc.doc, publicized once again less than 3 months ago...
Marrish:
Zombie Hands: To accomplish this attack, the Marrish invisibly marks a section of the map. When an opponent wanders into the proximity of this affected area, zombie hands reach up from the ground and detain the opponent until he or she is able to struggle free or the attack expires. While being detained, the opponent is unable to defend him or herself.
with this from the latest Naruto: Naiteki Kensei Mod...
Tsuiga no Jutsu is a non-damaging technique that roots your opponent in place. After casting the proper seals Kakashi summons Pakkun. Any nearby enemies will be chased by Pakkun for a short time. If they are unable to avoid their pursuer Pakkun will take hold summoning the rest of the dogs to clamp onto their target holding them in place.
Here's my case for having been infringed upon (the design document is copyrighted as well as being registered with WGWa as WGWa #1109915 as a treatment under the title "Dueling Dreams")...
- The Naruto mod (which has very good animations btw) is infringing on copyright to begin with, so obviously they've no moral objections to the practice
- As they are both anime and cel-shaded, the Naruto mod and DCD both share an audience and are regular features in the Anime Group. They would be familiar with DCD and would have motive for copying the DCD design doc.
- Until recently, the Naruto mod has expressly ruled out the use of summons, leaving fans such as V.Metallic to comment "I thought you are not planning to add Summons, but nevermind."
- I don't know of a single other "detainment summons" in all of fighting game modding until I added it to the DCD repetoire. Now shortly after I publicize the dcdDesignDoc, the Naruto mod reverses its' decision to not use summoning and uses a "detainment summons"? Seems like more than coincidence.
While it may not seem like much, original ideas like a "detainment summons" are the foundations of Dream Casters' Duel. Playing by the rules and honoring copyright law puts my mod at a great disadvantage to begin with. The Naruto mod, through theft, has capitalized on the years of marketing, years of professional design and development, professional full-time artistry, and world-wide fan base that Masashi Kishimoto and his team have worked for more than a decade to cultivate. Now the Nartuto mod wants to steal my ideas too? Fuck that. Not without a fight.
I'd like to think that the modding community would be as against using other ppl's ideas as much as it is against using other ppl's models without permission. I've seen people get into huge flame wars about gun models and character models (whose original creator had ip-thieved ironically enough) that looked the slightest bit similiar. I would like to think stealing ip from other modders would be made as socially unacceptable. Given this community's track record of allowing copyright infringement in all things however, should I hold my breath? You tell me.
(buried)
If the Naruto mod ppl want to publicly acknowledge and apologize for having copied the DCD design doc in the next pr and the in-game credits of the mod itself, that would be cool.
Well first off if you want us too we can go back and show you original posts of when we designed the pakkun idea. Here is another funny thing, the two moves are different from each other. Where you have a certain area that captures people we have a computer AI who chases the player down and performs the summoning of the dogs to "freeze" "Stun" the opponent so to say we stole your idea is garbage.
Second off your a UTK4 mod and if you think your not stealing ideas from source material then you are mistaken. "Shadow Clone Attack: A gang of Kiyokos destroys their opponent!" hmm sounds very naruto'ish.
Also a lot of your will powers are taken from many already released games/mods/anime's too think your being a hero and crying "they stole my idea" is very childish when you yourself is in fact of being a total hypocrit.
Just because our game looks better and will probably play better even on an older engine does not mean you have to be jealous of the time we put into making this mod.
Also I would like to see this "proof" anywhere where we said we are not going to have summons because as far as I know we were.
I already gave my 2 cents on the subject.
Let us just hope this conflict ends in a respectful way and doesn't cause any unnecessary flame wars.
Hmm, seems similar in practice to what you've put in your design doc.
However, are there other ideas being stolen by them? Have you spoken to a mod about this?
Youtube.com 'nuff said
There are a hell of a lot of games which have rooting effects first that springs to mind is WoW, it is in no way an original game concept. Visuals count for nothing, the gameplay effect is always the same: keep an enemy in place for x seconds.
The attack in question is actually in the anime. Whilst it is sort of a summon, it's not the kind of summon the team ruled out. The summons that wont be in the game are the 100 foot high toads and slugs, which are unfeasable when it comes into terms of balance, and the restrictions of the half life engine.
Despite the fact they're creating a mod using others intellectual property, they're in no way exploiting it for their own gain. It is a freely run, non-profit, homage to a popular anime, made by a dedicated team who work extremely hard on something they will never receive any kind of gain from, except peoples enjoyment.
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Singularly the most tired and ineffectual argument for illegal mod making. If you're interested in educating yourself as to what's right, read
http://www.mikejkelley.com/copyrightAndYouTheModder.doc
specifically the "“As Long As It’s Free”, “Who Loses Anything?”" and "Liability" (and onwards) sections.
Next time I need a completely bias, shortsighted and incompassionate read, I'll make sure I go directly to your site. Thanks for the link.
(buried)
"completely bias (sic)"
as in, "completely biased" towards facts, legal precedent, research, and professional input?
"shortsighted"
as in, thoroughly researched with the input of an attorney, professional game designer and writer?
Honestly Davidskiwan, if you actually read it, you might learn something.
"Bias" is the correct term my friend, it refers to leaning towards a certain perspective or ideology, "biased" refers to an action or judgment.
Whilst the fact is the legality is indeed being breached, for the most part when people work on such projects they mean the franchise involved no harm. You clearly negate to argue the point in your argument that such mods, and indeed things such as fan art (which are infact in breech of the same laws), are free publicity for a IP, it grows communities that can flourish and produce long term interest and support for official products. I myself was introduced to anime through a Dragonball Z mod that was developed on the Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II engine. If it wasn't for that mod, I wouldn't own half the entire manga series, several movie DVDs, and every professional game produced on consoles. That modification has actually increased sales for the IP owners.
It is not a clear cut black and white subject. Legality never accounts for grey areas, this is why it is left to the IP owners discretion to actively pursue this kind of activity and take action on their own accord. If IP owners start shutting down fan sites, taking down fan art, and closing down modifications, they create a terrible stigma attached to their name, while in the eyes of the law they are perfectly within their rights to do so, fans being unable to show their appreciation is not viewed by the public so nicely. This hurts sales much more than the free publicity given through community driven activities.
What you said about Tsuiga isn't even worth commenting on. I suggest doing some research before making yourself look like a tool in front of everyone.
"#
# Until recently, the Naruto mod has expressly ruled out the use of summons, leaving fans such as V.Metallic to comment "I thought you are not planning to add Summons, but nevermind." "
I have no idea what you were smoking when you said that, but we have never announced whether or not summons will be in NNK.
Your comment about Tsuiga is bothering me, I have no idea how someone can be so stupid. Seriously, were you just pulling things out of your ***, or were you being 100% serious? Because Tsuiga no Jutsu is from the anime, yet you're calling us stealers? I think it's the opposite in this situation. Zombie hands sounds just like Tsuiga from the anime, except you're replacing dogs with hands that will come out of the ground.
tl;dr: get real and do some research before making a joke out of yourself.
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I'll keep this short.
I'm calling you "stealers" because that is exactly what you are. Even if you truly haven't stolen this game mechanic from me, your mod, IN ITS' ENTIRETY, FROM START-TO-FINISH, WITHOUT EXCEPTION is a rip-off.
---> So don't bother to feign outrage when your very illegal, copyright infringing, rip-off mod is accused of ripping-off another mod. <---
Tool? Stupid? A joke? Really now. I'm sure I could prove which one of us is all these things and more in a proper debate moderated by Madman Entertainment.
Would you like that? Name a place and time and gather together all your friends.
Don't flatter yourself, mike. We have no intention of taking you seriously.
(buried)
That's fine, it's obvious you're not equipped to debate. You can plead your case to Madman and Valve after the fact.
Sorry this will be two posts because of length.
Seriously Mike, what is with this unprovoked attack? It totally came out of left field for this ENTIRE NNK team. I don't know of a single person who I talk to from the team or otherwise that has even heard of, or mentioned, your project. And I myself had no idea of this projects existence until today. On top of that you are nit picking to the highest degree since this mechanic has been around for a LONG time. I could understand if we were not based on an anime that already had a move in it, and on top of that called it "undead fingers". Then you would have reason to complain, obviously.
I just don't understand what your angle is in this and why you feel the need to try and publicly slander a mod and go to great lengths to try and get us shut down. Why? Are you that much of an advocate against IP infringement? It just seems like a crusade that you will never win. I mean you can get us shut down and throw away all our hard work, then you can pat yourself on the back and think you did a "good job" and "helped out people"...but why? There are another 3-4 Naruto mods probably active right now, not to mention DragonBall Z, Bleach and many many others. I don't see you blasting away at them.
I'm glad you can flatter yourself with these fantastical ideas that we are just some group complete evil do-ers and jerks and you are the white knight swooping in to save the day and protect the big corporation's IPs from us. It's an interesting thing to read and how you are so adamant that we are the scum of the earth instead of just people who enjoy and are passionate about a subject/anime/what-have-you. On top of this in your messages you say:
"...and I hoped it wouldn't come to this. Perhaps you have some ideas about how your team can demonstrate remorse for your theft and the continuing harm done to the legitimate modding community? Maybe we can yet work out our differences."
(buried)
"Why? Are you that much of an advocate against IP infringement?"
Yes, for quite some time now. That should be evident by the ammount of time, effort, and professional input that went into creating http://www.mikejkelley.com/copyrightAndYouTheModder.doc
"It just seems like a crusade that you will never win."
So I shouldn't bother to try?
"throw away all our hard work"
Hard work begins with character design, character development, story treatments, story development, artist recruitment, panel artwork, manga publication, securing development funding, securing distribution, preserving legal rights, licensing merchandising, series development, voice actor recruitment, localization, world-wide marketing and a host of other disciplines and products that you've subverted for your own self-serving interest.
That's hard work. What you've done isn't hard work, or an accomplishment, it isn't even legal!
continued...
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"I don't see you blasting away at them."
I'm against all infringing mods. But for the most part, they don't respond with petty personal insults. And I have no reason to think that they are plagiarizing.
"I'm glad you can flatter yourself with these fantastical ideas that we are just some group complete evil do-ers and jerks and you are the white knight swooping in to save the day and protect the big corporation's IPs from us"
"tool.. stupid... pulling things out of your ***... a joke"
"We have no intention of taking you seriously."
"Look at yourself, your mod is infamous and unknown. How would we even notice your mod... If we get any ideas it would come from a game wich is more known then a homebrew crap game kept in silence. Get real dude... Noone will support you and your crappy mod at all... youre only sittin and complaining and havn't done Sh**."
No, NKK aren't jerks! It is populated exclusively by grown-ups who carefully reason their arguments, use proper grammar and spelling, can use fifth grade vocabulary like "infamous" properly, and never-ever contradict themselves with nonsense!
"I'm glad you can flatter yourself with these fantastical ideas that... you are the white knight swooping in to save the day and protect the big corporation's IPs from us."
I'm not flattering myself and I don't envision myself as a "white knight" saving anyone. Trust me, my motives are to keep what's mine, reclaim what should be mine, and to preserve the legal viability of modding.
First, you hoped what wouldn't come to this? You never spoke with us about this in private, or talking to us in a civil manner (like you claim to want to do). We haven't been going back and forth for months arguing, this just popped up out of the blue. You just post all over the internet and blast a PM our way full of accusations. Second, what kind of remorse would you expect? Us to stop our mod, delete our files, and throw away two years of work because you "assume" we stole something from your genius that amazingly enough only you could possibly ever think of. You truly are the messiah of game development Mike. And lastly what harm have we done to the modding community? No one (except I guess you and maybe 3-5 other people in the world) could possible be as offended as you are, and thus somehow think that all mods are this monster of evil you claim we are. Most would probably just think to themselves, "that sounds kinda illegal, but they are public and post up news every week, people who would want to know about it could easily find it, and they are just people who really like Naruto"
And then the icing on the cake, you say, "Maybe we can yet work out our differences." Obviously it sounds like that is exactly what you have been trying to do with your post, pm, and comments. I think you mean that maybe all of the NNK team will be so swayed by your bombastic messages and just agree with you. I guess that is your idea of "working out our differences". Because obviously you aren't going to be listening to what we have to say. You are convinced that we are an awful, awful, group of people with the sole intention of ruining everything for everyone.
And the thing that gets me the most is that we never heard a word from you until you thought we stole something from you. Now suddenly we have to be shut down and are a menace to the world. Oh well, I had to get this off my chest because it just kinda managed to hit a cord with me. Enjoy your day and best of luck Mike.
Why are you saying that we're stealers and making trouble eventhough you're the one who started that trouble?
Look at yourself, your mod is infamous and unknown. How would we even notice your mod and come to the idea to "steal" your ideas? If we get any ideas it would come from a game wich is more known then a homebrew crap game kept in silence. Get real dude.
Also if you had that/those awesome ideas, why dont you claim on the game companies wich have done almost the same?
"Hell yeh! I have an awesome Idea for that"
-plays naruto game-
"Hey! They stole my idea!!"
Noone will support you and your crappy mod at all. The difference is that we're doing what we're supposed to and try to get this thing done, while youre only sittin and complaining and havn't done Sh**.
Imagin that there're 1000 other Naruto mod's sharing the same Ideas?!
Oh? You didn't know?! The hush-hush!!! Go complain!!
So if you care about your problem, go ahead and talk to a wall, it might be the most usefull conclusion we'd come up to.
(buried)
"Why are you saying that we're stealers"
Um, because you're stealing stealers who are stealing? Do you honestly not know that using the Naruto license is stealing?
"making trouble eventhough you're the one who started that trouble?"
Except that you caused trouble by stealing? I don't want to keep going over how, you should be able to understand that there are negative repercussions for the entire community when you steal, refer to comments elsewhere.
"Look at yourself, your mod is infamous and unknown."
Look at yourself, you can't use the word infamous correctly in a sentence! A key component of it's definition is "something or someone who is widely known"! But I digress. The NNK keeps bashing DCD and claiming that no one has ever heard of it. Here was one of my more recent replies...
"Really? Not even when DCD placed 3rd in the standalone category of MOTY 2006 according to total number of votes? I suppose it's OK that you haven't heard of DCD. It doesn't have a manga, or a TV series, or a novel, or several OVAs, worldwide distribution and merchandising like Naruto. And isn't that the point? There's lots and lots more people who haven't heard of DCD because it is overshadowed by popular but ILLEGAL, ILLEGITIMATE, UNORIGINAL mods like Naruto."
When Naruto fails, it will because you and your team have lacked a single original idea since its' inception, you resort to personal attacks, oh, and because you broke the law by stealing.
My following blog will feature a shout-out to Enix04, TryForceX, and Damaera. Try to guess exactly where.
So lets see if I get this right. You claim to have come up with a game mechanic wich is about as original as a gun that shoots bullets and then bitch cuase someone have something kinda-sorta-almost the same except they got it from a anime series wich the mod is based on. Then you start posting your own little pointless .doc that has no merit whatsoever except in your own little world. As long as the COMPANIES dont complain then it isnt a violation of anything and that people should sit and come up with original ideas all the time is just a retarded idea, some people like certain things and obviously any game or modmaker will make a game/mod about something they like? Think a RPG game made by people who only like and play actiongames will be any good?
Frankly nothing about your mod is original either. Everything of it has been done befor..everything. Just not in the same game. All you've done is a multiplayer version of Oni(might wanna look that game up) with better graphics.
Dont go around bitching just becuase someone happen to have a bigger fanbase then you.
Seems like jealousy to me, maybe if you're nice the NNK team will let you jump ship and contribute to their project. Comparing the two mods, you might learn something.
Another mod has stun/freeze attack and now it's infringement of your work? Are you serious?
/facepalm
Wow guys check it out!
Img154.imageshack.us
Cammy makes an appearance in Dreamcasters Duel! I'm so excited!