Post news RSS The Road to Edain 4.0: The Maps, Part 1

New maps alongside reworked old maps are waiting to be conquered by you! In this update we will show you a few things about the designing phase of reworking the maps (or creating new ones) and some of the final versions.

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The Road to Edain 4.0: The Maps, Part 1


Greetings, companions of Edain!

Not only the factions got many reworks in the new version, but also all maps have been reworked.
Due to the BfME I building system much will be changed there.

What exactly is different?

Some points already have been stated, but I will repeat them, because they connected with this topic:
In contrast to the maps in Edain 3.81, there won't be any Outposts, Signalfires or Inns any more. Ship-Wrights will remain.
In return, at every starting point there will be a fortress or camp, and additionally outposts (the ones from BfME I) and settlements.
In contrast to the current neutral buildings, the expansion points will represented much more on the map and also more important, because they are the only way to build something outside your fortress and therefore to get some additionally resources. Also, in most cases the player gains access to special units, similar to the Inn in the current version.
But not only the neutral buildings have been changed:
Also the Creeps (the wild units attacking any player in their range ) have been reworked.
Sometime ago, we placed special units on some maps, acting as creeps – for example there were wild men of Dunland on the map Dunland, or wild men of Rhudaur of course on Rhudaur, and the mountains have been invaded by different kinds of Goblins.
In our opinion, this has been an important element to differentiate the maps and to make the map feel more like the region, it should represent. Nonetheless there were some problems:
First of all, they were noticable different from the standard creeps. The later had their lairs, the map creeps were only units placed on the map, without any reason why. Also the AI had massive problems with Creeps, most of the time the AI just ignored them, causing huge losses of troups, without any adventage.
In the new version, we created some new Creep-Lairs, so that there will be wild men of Dunland running around their hut, or Mordor-Orcs trying to defend their tent, just as different kind of Trolls and Wargs making the area unsafe on some maps.
In this way, we stanadrized the Creeps, which looks much better, as well as it improves the AI.

Due to the change to the BfME I building systems, maps may influence the game much more. In the current version, there were large areas, where the player could build anywhere, also only very few places on the map got guarded, those which gave special boni. Now, there are much more posibilities to change the resource supply for the players:
If a map should have only few resources, the mapper can place less neutral buildings, else he can place more. (that is not so easy in some cases, but the concept is clear)
Also, the mapper can decide how fast the resource supply will happen. If many settlements are guarded by Creeps, the player needs much more time, to build up his economy.
Nonetheless, it is important to follow a guideline for all maps. If a faction is strong at destroying creeps at the start of the game, it has an advantage on maps with more guarded settlements, because it can build up its economy much earlier than its opponents. But on other maps with very few Creeps, it will have a disadvantage.
So, a mapper is able to influence the game very much, but he has to pay attention that no faction will get to strong on this map.

1. Changes to existing maps

For an example, look at the map Gap of Rohan. There one might see that each player has access to two unguarded settlements at the beginning (below mid, above mid and the two in the middle)
One of them is quite close to the fortress, so it is very easy to defend. The other one is much farer away, so a player has to leave his fortress to defend it. Additionally, there are more settlements, which are guarded by creeps. Some of them are also easy to deffend, others in the middle of an open space. Therefore, for both players there are rewarding targets, which are not in range of the fortress, but if a player has already the map-control he has to attack settlements in range of the enemy fortress, to deny his enemy the access of any settlement. If you look at the map Arnor, you can see that this map has only camps, so the players have less protection and resources, and also hardly all settlements are placed between the two players, so there will be much more battles to conquer them. Each has two settlements, he can easily defend, but if does not conquer any other settlements, he will easily get a huge disadvantage!

Besides, there will be some changes concerning fortress-maps. Many fortress-maps like Minas Tirith don't have enough open space inside the fortress, for camps and castles. Therefore it will be the same system as in the campaign of BfME I:
Inside the fortress, there are some build plots spreaded, which the fortress player may without having to conquer them. You can see it here Minas Tirith.

2. Map Reworks

Over time, everyone learns more. Sometimes, only the mapping style changes, or one learns new tricks. Many of our older maps are far below the level of Edain and would make problems with the BfME I building system, too. So we started to rework some of them.
When doing a rework, the objective is to keep as much of the basic idea of the map as possible, so the players will recognize them, but still to imrpove them.

Today, I want to show you two examples:

Tol Morwen
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Tol Morwen has been an island with various trees and few other features.
It has been reworked, due to many reasons:
On most maps, the first look is enough to determine where the map is in Middle-Earth, or at least similarities to other maps. On Tol Morwen, this has not been the case. When creating the map, I mostly used standard trees. But if an island is seperated for tousand of years from the mainland, it is very unlikely that a huge variousity of trees, shrubs and grasses exists there. Usually most of them will die and only very few will stay alive. Doing the rework, I based the textures and trees on other maps on the coasts of Middle-Earth, mainly Forlindon and the Grey Havens. The goal was to avoid using to many different trees and shrubs, but still creating a varied map.
Also, when I first created the map, I made huge mistake:
On the map there stands a memorial stone of Turien, Nienor and Morwen. It has been provephesied that this stone never be von Turin, Nienor und Morwen. It was foretold that this stone will never be destroyed or desecrated. But this sone was not even on the old map^^
Also, the island was unrealistic. Such a flat island as in the current version would be drowned at the smallest sea-level rise. Usually, small islands have some kind of protection against waves.
The last point was the build-system. Settlements are quite small, so it might happen easily that the player does not see them, when paying attention to other aspects of the game. Of course, it should be too easy for the player, but it can be really frustrating to notice afterwards that you had access to a settlement for the whole game, but did not see it. Also, it should be the difference between normal and good players that the good player knows the map by heart and so all the locations of the settlements. On the map there were very few visible marks, to identify locations for settlement, therefore much had to be changed.

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Plateau of Gorgoroth
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This map has been in nearly all points in contrast to the criteria of a good map:
The map had bad textures, did not offer anything special, and there were already 2 other Mordor maps for 4 players: Mount Dum and Udun. The structure of the map was quite similar to Udun, and the variety of the map was boring.
The biggest problem were the two other and better Mordor maps, which would have stayed a problem, so this map got far more reworked than the other maps, changing it to a 5 player map.
Due to the fact, that at each starting point, there is a castle/camp, in 4.0 it is nearly impossible to play 2 vs. 3 on a 6 player map, because there will be a free expansion point, and much more settlements for one team. So the 2 vs 3 becomes a 3 vs 3 or even a 2 vs 4 (our testers can testify that^^)
Therefore, one problem was already solved. However, the plateau of Gorgoroth was a fissured area, inhabited by orcs. In the current version of the map, there is an orc camp in the middle of the map, which has been expanded. Also, there are much more small orc tents, making the map more alive but also more evil. Besides, the clipps have been expanded, so fissureness is more visiual present and the map does not seem to be a flat plaine anymore.

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3. New Maps

There will be many new arreas to conquer. Most of them have been constructed to be fun in single-player, by offering much variety, as well as being a good choise for multi-player matches, due to the fact that all players have the same conditions.

Mountains of Angmar
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Many people wished more maps for playing Arnor. We, wished that, too.
Particullary, the current 1 vs 1 map for Arnor (Icebay of Forochel) is quite small, so the player will have camps instead of castles.
So, a new map was needed! The question was: Which kind of map is the best for an epic battle Angmar versus Arnor?
The answer for us was that this fight has always been dominated by the snow. While the battlefields more in south have been plains or fortresses, Angmar was an area that advanced the winter. So, the objective for this new map, was to give the impression of a cold winter in the mountains. Both players start opposite of each other in a snowy mountain area, an area being enclosed by huge cliffs reaching into the sky, as well as deep valleys and small passes.

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Mines of the Iron Hills
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This map is for 4 players, a map I created a long time ago (at that time for another mod, which sadly vanished).
By now, I changed some things and adjusted it for Edain. This map is placed in the mountains, like the map the Mountains of Angmar, but in another region and without snow.^^

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Source of Carnen
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The source of Carnen is a huge source in the Iron Hills.
It is also a 2 player-map, being constructed to be fun, when playing multi-player.

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We hope that you liked the first impression of the maps of the new version.
Your Edain-Team

Comments
hoho96
hoho96

Yeye more love from Edain <3
They never fail to amaze us ^^

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Jennings17soco
Jennings17soco

Looks amazing! i cant wait for english to be done!

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RoyonX
RoyonX

On that part, if you need some translation i can still help (: I'm from the netherlands so was teached both.

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labadal1
labadal1

Have a look here:
Forum.modding-union.com
and here:
Forum.modding-union.com
But I think they've almost finished the 2. Translation action. I've only seen one lorien textblock and two mordor text blocks classified as not translated yet.

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Thorvaldo
Thorvaldo

Are the Creeps now more strong than vainilla? because i remember that 1 group of even normal orcs could easely destroy one lair with no major problems. So now how much it takes to destroy one? Will the player need to take it on count for his main strategy?

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FG15
FG15

There will be three kinds of creeps.
Easy ones, which you can kill easily with your two starting units.
Medium ones, here your starting units won't be enough.
Strong ones, for them you need a hero and some units or many units.

Easy ones are for example men of Dunland, Rhudaur and all the orcs.
Medium ones are all the kinds of wargs, and as far as I remember spiders.
Storng ones are Trolls or Dragons.

And yes, they are stronger and the player has to take them on count for his strategy.

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Tauriel15
Tauriel15

I really can not wait to play this mod! Amazing work with the details and the textures. I especially liked the Mines of the Iron Hills map. I noticed that there where not many civilian buildings in the Minas Tirith map like in the Bfme 1 campaign, is it possible to maybe add some more? For me Minas Tirith should be a crowded and a stressful place to be, and i really think that the civilian buildings helped with that

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Guest
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RandomZombi3
RandomZombi3

This update has me SO excited! :D

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

A couple of pointers! =D =D =D

* Tol Morwen could do with a beach texture, the dry yellow grass clumps should not go into the ocean. =D

* Angmar's mountains could do with some proper terrain details, currently the cliffs are too smooth. =D

* There are some Iron Hill cliff-to-grass textures available that can be used to transition the cliff textures into the grass textures nicely. =D

* You're using a boulder texture for the paths in Gorgoroth, people don't travel on boulders. =p Try a lighter dirt and transition it into the regular dirt. =D

* I do recommend using more Minas Tirith buildings in Minas Tirith as well. =D

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

1.) I personally don't see anything against the dry yellow grass clumps going into the ocean. I have seen succh things in australia a lot and don't think that it is unrealistic. It is not common, but it still fits.
But I will try to change it. :)

2.) Well, they aren't really 'smooth', but I think I noticed what you're talking about. I will see what I can change.

3.) Often, when I'm creating a map, I look at alreayd existing places. For this map I had the alps or the franconian switzerland in my mind. Especially coming to the top, it's nothing special to see cliffs and rocks coming out of the grass without a smooth change between them. That's a thing which is common it high mountains. The rocks are set free by glaciers or just rain and afterwards only at the bottom fertile soil is left. That's why I haven't used a smoother transition.

4.) Well, I have seen this also. I personally don't like the lighter dirt for this map at all. I have tried it and it looked horrible)
When you're walking the same way all the time, the ashes and dirt will be pushed away until there are only the harder rocks, which are located under the ashes are set free. As there are thousands of orcs I found it fitting that exactly this happened: thousands of thousands or orcs ran over the same spot again and again and therefore the lighter parts of the ground or pushed away or down between the rocks. As long as the rocks aren't too bigthere is still no problem at walking on them, mostly it's even easier then walking on ashes or sand.^^ (I have experience with that^^)

5.) This should still the original MT map from EA Games, as far as I know we haven't changed anything about it. More buildings are a bit difficult, as some of our buildings are really huge and therefore this could cause some problems. I personally also don't like the map very much, I think it also needs a rework as soon as someone of us has some time.^^

Thanks for the feedback. :)

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

1) Do you mean sea grass? =p
Have you ever been to Esperance, here is a nice photo. It shows a very beautiful beach. =D
Esperanceapartments.com.au

2) Here is a guide about making realistic cliffs in Worldbuilder that might help. =D (Unfortunately Imageshack has made the images disappear.) =(
Forums.revora.net
My favourite point: "The key is to rework your terrain with a smaller brush size."

3) Perhaps some variety can help. =D
Here is a photo near Lauterbrunnental, in which you can see the grasses going right up to the cliff and also rocks and outcrops that help 'transition' the terrain. =D
2.bp.blogspot.com

4) Okay, nice explanation. Here's a picture of a desert path. =D
Goingplaces.blog.usf.edu

5) I haven't played the vanilla Minas Tirith in ages. =p

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

No, I don't mean sea grass.^^ Sometimes there are also dead grasses directly in the sea.^^

2.) I know how to create cliffs, I'm not new to mapping. Sometimes I'm just too lazy to do so. :P

3.) That's just one point, but that's a place which is not really high. Believe me, when I say that it is completely realistic.^^

4.) Yes, that's a desert path - but as you might know not every area is the same - it always depends on the amount of ashes/sand/dirt lying on top of other parts. I personally don't imagine Mordor as a country with many metres of sand above stones. I think that there is cold magma everywhere with ashes and some sand above. In a dessert it's something different, there is much more sand. ;)

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Foeham3r
Foeham3r

you're not lazy, you're just on energy saving mode :P
looks amazing btw!

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DavidPinto
DavidPinto

I didn't understand one point. Gnomi can you clear this doubt
It will be possible to build everywhere in the map, for example barracks or farms, with all the factions?

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hoho96
hoho96

You build all kind of different buildings only on predetermined plots.
so no, it's not possible to build everywhere on the map :/

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DavidPinto
DavidPinto

Why? In my opinion that doesn't make sence. It will be more difficult to deffend because you will not be able to build towers and walls further of the fortress, and it will be more difficult to attack because you will take more time to do the attack because you can't recruit troops near by the enemy fortress and the troops have to walk the whole map And because of this it will make slower the type of game
If you have only the opportunity to build on predetermined plots, you will not tkae advantage of the whole map. Because if you can't build in other places it will be only to "passing trough" places to troops or for example in the corners of the map it will be empty space.
Like in the current version 3.8.1 you can build everywhere you want, you can use that empty stops and make more "epic battles" with more troops, buildings to deffend.
I think the old system was O.K., but is edain team decision. I was only showing my view like a player and a lover of the BFME2/ROTW/Edain mod. But amazing work

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

The system is from The Battle for Middle-earth I.

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DavidPinto
DavidPinto

I know. But if we are playing a mod of the BFME2, is kind of receding to the oldest one.It was bether trying to do something new but is quite hard, I know. BUt they already decided. and it will be amazing anyway. So, we won't need builders right?

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

It was a very nice feature. I like that Edain has taken this unique approach. It was partially reached as a switchable feature in the late RJ-mod and it is nice to view it completed.

Perhaps you can ask Edain to make it switchable?

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DavidPinto
DavidPinto

Yes. I will do that. Thanks. I will ask Gnomi

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

No, as we have announced in earlier updates we will have the Bfme I system with fortresses, camps, outposts and settlements. The first three give you building points where you can build additional buildings as soon as you have captured them.

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DavidPinto
DavidPinto

It is possible to make switchable? So, one option to play like in the BFME I system and another option to play like in the 3.8.1?

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

No. There will just be the one building system.

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DavidPinto
DavidPinto

SO it will be impossible to build out of the fortress area, not counting with the outpost and settlements?
So it will be impossible to build a amazing camp like we usualy see in the late games?

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hoho96
hoho96

YES! You won't be able to make an impossible mess of walls and towers!

An amazing late game castle is the definition of what you get in bfme1. That's how most people (not all) see this case, and that's how edain 4.0 is going to be.

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Guest
Guest

You can play as Misty Mountains. They will still be able to recruit "builders" to build tunnels anywhere.

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hoho96
hoho96

No. at least not in the sense of BFME2. Goblins basically build whole camps anywhere they want (if there's space of course), but after building each camp the cost to build the next one is significantly higher.

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

Can I take a look at one of your maps Gnomi? =D

I can give you a few more pointers if I can show you directly by remaking a small part of the map. =D

Or you can view one my very few maps - I haven't released many.

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

You can see some of my maps in the current edain version, for example "Imloth Melui", "Ost-Ithilien", "Isengard (verflucht)", "Himling", "Dol Amroth"... I've done most of them 3-6 years ago, so they are worse than most of my newer maps. The new maps will be released with version 4.0, I won't send them around earlier.^^

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

All I have is your Himling map from the unofficial patch 1.08. I can't download Edain 3. So I'll just show you what I mean with cliffs.

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

I've noticed it a few weeks ago:
There are about 16 maps of me in the unofficial patch, they're all taken without my permission or even without asking me.

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MattTheLegoman
MattTheLegoman

I private messaged the leader of Edain - Elendil I think it was, on ModDB about the few that I recognised soon after the unofficial patch came out.

There was a lot of permissions not asked in that situation. Many more maps from Revora had been hastily inserted into the unofficial patch and others ripped straight from map download sites.

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Krabbenn
Krabbenn

This mod is only getting better and better. What about the Mirkwood section update?

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Guest
Guest

so is it gonna be english or dutch ?

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hoho96
hoho96

Both ;)

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hoho96
hoho96

Both ;)

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FG15
FG15

It will be in English and German.

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Gnomi Author
Gnomi

Why the hell dutch?^^

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JjForcebreaker
JjForcebreaker

Great update, thank you for the info!

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Johnny595
Johnny595

Hey Folks! Truly an amazing update. Shows clearly how more variable the maps can be in the new gameplay mode of 4.0. Not too restrictive to the terrain detail as the necessary flatness of BFME II, so it makes way for a different aproach on the altitude and even on the Line of sight and range of units. Also, of course, adding a much apreciated realism and epicness to each map. Really great job! Was wondering, thinking about variation in maps, is it possible to change a single spot, IE, a settlement spot, and make it so you can build a Orc pit, per say for Mordor, meaning that this specific spot isn't economical or an outpost, it's basically a reinforcement point. For example, putting such spot in the walled area at Gorgoroth. It makes that one spot harder to hit and stronger to defend, giving it a tactical advantage for the players to achieve. however it is easily flankable through the back, meaning the attacker can use the terrain at his favour. Maybe spots such as these in some maps, just to add a Eye Candy (or some cool denomination like that xD) to the map. Like in Minas Tirith, add a spot in the inside courtyard of the gate to construct a statue or a well, or on Osgiliath, add one of those spots in the middle of the city, so that the battle at the actual city gets more intense in order to obtain such advantage. Idk, just tossing my 2 cents here! This mod is amazing so far, and my guts tell me that it'll be even more of a spectacle on the future. Great going. Cheers!

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Superdante
Superdante

Another great update as always. Was just wondering about one thing, on bfme there were no stances (which was awesome, since Gandalf had 1 more power - Leadership) and the units behaved well. Didn't like that defend thing, since they never attacked on sight, they 1st went head on to the enemy (therefore suffering more damage), while if you just placed them there they would attack more effectively. On BFME2 came the stances (which made Gandalf lose his leadership) and they weren't any good, if you wanted rangers stationary but attacking on sight, defensive stance made statues out of them, or neutral stance would make them attack on sight but chase the other units if out of reach (if the other player exploited this, he would lure the rangers a bit to trample them), and the aggressive stance made them chase the other units all over the map.
So, basically the question is, how is our unit's A.I. gonna be handled? Will we still have stances, or will it be like BFME 1, where we place them and they know what to do? Also will we have batallion/horde-combination? That was one of the coolest features ever on BFME.

Regardless, it's been great thus far, keep up the good work ;) really want to play this ^^

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hollow_vergil
hollow_vergil

please release a beta.
i cant wait!

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hoho96
hoho96

Sry pal, but no beta. Edain wants to give a full experience in a complete single release.

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lord_ellessar
lord_ellessar

I had an idea, the One Ring have a big influence to his porter so when we kill Gollum and we cap the ring the unit or hero how have take this one have to be posseded by the one ring so the unit can have a short time to give the Ring and after this they become neutral... (and if You Can do it, when it's a unit Just one survive and the other died when the time is finish...)
Ps: Just the hobbit heroes and nazguls doesn't have a time because if a nazgul take the Ring, he Will give it to the Black Lord and the hobbits are like they say in the books or movies more resistant...

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hoho96
hoho96

What's the point?! If you got the ring and you still dont have the ring hero, your unit will die (or become neutral or whatever) while you bring up your hero.
If you're playing on a larg map and you got the ring somewhere far from your base, your unit will die before it returns.
If the timer is long enough to do all the above, then there's really no point of making this timer in the first place.

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JoseTheGreen
JoseTheGreen

And the Edain Defense map will be for 4.0???

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TiberiusOgden
TiberiusOgden

There will be many new mission and fortress maps.

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YeshuaEnthusiast
YeshuaEnthusiast

Hey Edain, is it possible to pull the original maps U installed in the game and edit them to be castles? Where would I go to access those for me to make that change?

Also, is it possible to pull all of the original maps from BFME 1, I can't seem to use the maps designed for t for Edain 4 despite being of similar layout...

Thanks and Blessings

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