I'm pleased to announce that, after perhaps way too much time (damn you, real life!) I've finally gotten around to releasing the next version of C&C 3: The Forgotten. This version starts out small, mostly with buffs to some of the Forgotten's weaker units to make them more useful. Here is the full changelist:
- Longhorn passenger capacity reduced from 4 to 1
- Longhorn passengers now receive 75% damage bonus
- Longhorn prerequisite changed from Tacitus Library to Garden of Life
- Longhorn damage against tank and heavy units increased 50%
- Tiberium Fiend weapon damage increased from 60 to 75
- Bulldozer now immune to mines and Disintegrator's crush death weapon
- Jeep speed reduced from 130 to 110
- Jeep DPS increased by about 78%
- Jeep damage taken from GUN and GRENADE weapons decreased by 25%
- Jeep damage taken from rocket weapons increased by 10%
- War Camper base damage increased from 500 to 600
- War Camper damage multiple for aircraft decreased from 120% to 100%
- War Camper range increased from 250 to 275
- New Fissure Tank projectile model added (thanks Egozi)
- Fissure Tank acceleration and turn rate greatly increased
- Fissure Tank now puts tread tracks on the ground when it moves
- Fissure Tank damage taken from GUN and GRENADE weapons reduced by 50%
- Logistics Blimp missile jamming code reworked, now much more effective
- Fixed typo in Veinhole Monster superweapon description
The Longhorn should have 2 Seats in my opinion. Yes, four was too many, but one is too few considering that it a forward firing only tank. No other tank in the whole game is restricted in the same way.
Also, the Power Plant in its normal form should be slightly better in terms of its armour. The other power plants from all of the other factions are much stronger. Orca Strike does about 50%-60% damage to a GDI/NOD/Scrin Power Plant, it does 80% against the Forgotten Power Plant. Fair enough, I haven't checked to see if the Orca Strike has a higher damage in this MOD (but as far as I know it doesn't).
Also, it would of been nice to see one more unit for the Forgotten. Its choice of tanks I think is lacking somehow, maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see something that could balance against Mech units. The Forgotten should have a Mech Class unit like everyone else. Personal opinion, it would be nice. If you need a design idea to work from, I'll happily provide.
1) Having one slot on the Longhorn wasn't my first choice, but ultimately it came down to working with the restrictions of the vanilla C&C 3 engine, specifically the one where the exit transport buttons become bugged if there is more than one slot. I could try looking into fixing the evacuate button since there would be room for it even with two slots, but I offer no promises that I can get it to work. (If I ever get around to porting The Forgotten over to KW, I'd definitely go up to 2 slots.)
2) I just looked at the code, and the Forgotten's power plant has the same armor and hit points as the GDI power plant. If it is weaker, then that is a bug.
3) The Forgotten already has two heavy T3 vehicles: the Bulldozer and the Longhorn. Designing a third heavy T3 vehicle around them when the Forgotten already has a full roster of units would be tough.
If I were to design one (say, for a KW port), I'd go maybe with a lighter unit with an electrical weapon that could disable or debuff enemies in addition to dealing damage. But if you've got ideas, I'd be happy to hear them. At the very least, they might come in handy for potential subfactions.
OK, I just had a game on a 1VS1 Map using a Hard GDI opponent while playing as the Forgotten. The result was that I couldn't get even one game to work out as Victory or Stalemate. Six restarts later, and I had to concede.
Same conditions again, but swapping the teams so that I'm GDI going against a Forgotten opponent, and I got Victory first run. My opening moves being identical to before. Didn't build much in way of defences either except one Watch Tower at the start (as I was unable to build defences while playing as the Forgotten, see lower down for details).
Stats (Me as GDI VS Hard AI as Forgotten):
KD Ratio: 19.00 VS 0.07
Favourite Unit (most constructed): Firehawk VS Horde
Most kills with unit type: GDI Harvester VS Impact Drone
Most losses of unit type: Firehawk VS Horde
Most threatening unit on the field: Mammoth Tank VS Bulldozer
Total resources gathered: 250K VS 500K (approximated amounts rounded to nearest 50K)
I had no more than 5 Mammoth Tanks at any one time and I was comfortably long-distance harvesting using 3-5 Harvesters at a time. I used my Mammoth Tanks to take the Bulldozers down and my Harvesters did the rest. The Firehawks took out the enemy structures, hence most built. I had a single Mammoth Tank go into the base at the end once it was Elite Rank and I used a Commando leisurely just to watch the AI's credits deplete to 0, and then used an Engineer to capture the MCV to attain Victory.
First point to note, the Forgotten Defence strategy. Defence Structures are not something the Forgotten have much actual access to. First, to place a defence in the first place, a Power Plant is required. While this is a good concept, this breaks up the chance for a Forgotten player to build up defences at the start of a game. GDI are able to build Watch Towers early on in the game, while the Forgotten have to rely solely upon units not defence structures. The idea of bringing the Component Tower back from Tiberian Sun is great, but it needs to be done right.
The Component Tower from Tiberian Sun, how to incorporate it correctly. For my own MOD, I intend for the CCS to use the Component Tower. This can be done in two ways.
One: A Structure in the Defence TAB that has upgrades of its own, one for each application. This would take 10 seconds to construct and then 5 seconds to upgrade after construction. Power Consumed being 1 and then the upgrade adding to that consumed power.
Two: A Structure in the Defence TAB that has the other structures built onto it via the Defence TAB. This would take 5 seconds to construct and then 10 seconds to build any module to place onto it.
I will use the first method, as it's easier to the user and quicker in many respects. The Component Tower will also act as my Wall Hub, just like it did in Tiberian Sun.
The MOD you've created is great, but it just needs fine-tuning. I'm available as a tester if you require.
The bulldozers are horrible against heavy T3 units. Bulldozers are awesome against light, medium vehicles, infantry, and structures but not against heavy vehicles units like avatar, Mammoth Tank, Tripod, longhorn and even itself.
The Bulldozer was supposed to be a "bully" unit, strong against smaller units but not able to pick on someone its own size. Still, I think the unit needs some serious tweaking.
Having the Forgotten's wall hubs be able to serve as mounting points for basic defenses in addition to power plants isn't a bad idea. I'll have to mull that one over.
Still, I think the Forgotten's problems are bigger than base defenses early game. It's been dawning on me that the Forgotten are largely underpowered, using a few overpowered units (Like the Sidewinder and Bulldozer) to do anything useful. If you can shut the workhorses down, the Forgotten player is helpless.
If you guys going do Kane wraith mod version is there any chance you guys going make epic unit for the forgotten faction? It be awesome the forgotten have T4 super unit.
Everyone keeps asking about this. Be patient, I'll get to the KW version in good time. I just want a balanced faction and campaign first before I do the port to KW (never mind working on new KW content).
Epic!
Hi there,
This might not sound like a priority, but there seems to be a bug with the campaign. Namely, playing the Scrin Campaign in the base game seems to unlock the next mission (allowing me to skip mission 1 entirely). However, I cannot play past Mission 2, as I immediately get the campaign ending cutscene afterwards rather than allowing me to advance onto Mission #3 (of four total if memory serves).
Oh, congratulations!
And welcome trying my mutant mod in KW, some assets are from your mod.
Kudos to CommieDog for doing this!
There's no doubt that the Forgotten are underpowered, especially in the early game. That was always my thinking, since I thought it was unlikely that the mod would be used much for competitive play and much more for campaign and skirmish. I thought every game playing as the Forgotten shoudl feel like a challenge. But I can see the point that maybe now that's not what fans want, especially since everyone who wants to has played through the campaign.
Anyway, it's so great to see the interest in the mod continues!