-Please share any ideas for units, flags or faction colors, or anything else
//Northern Kingdoms
=Macedonia, Ruler: Alexander the Great, Flag:Sun Symbol, Colors:Blue and Yellow
=Porus, Ruler: Porus, Flag:?, Colors:?
=Kashmir, Ruler: Abisares, Flag?, Colors?
=Sindhu States?
=Taxiles/Ambhi
=Anarta/Surashtra, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
=Maurya, Flag: Peacock, Colors: Blue and Green?
=Nanda, Ruler: Dhana Nanda, Flag?, Colors?
=Assam, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
//Middle Kingdoms
=Kantala, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
=Andhra, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
//Southern Kingdoms
=Chera, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
=Pandya, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
=Chola, Ruler: Ilamchetchenni?, Flag:?, Colors:?
=Anuradhapuras, Ruler:?, Flag:?, Colors:?
//Emergent Factions
=Seleucids
=Various Macedonian Satrapys
////MACEDONIANS, professional europeans and diverse mercenaries
//Cavalry
=Greek Companions, Elite Heavy Cavalry
=Persian Companions, Elite Heavy Cavalry
=Odrysian Heavy Cavalry, Hardy Heavy Cavalry
=Elephant Mercenaries
=Thracian Javelin Cavalry
=Greek Javelin Cavalry
=Iranian Archer Cavalry
=NonEuro Cav/Asiatic Cavalry Mercenaries?
//Infantry
=Hypaspistai, Hoplites
=Pezetaerus, Elite Phalanx Pikemen
=Macedonian Phalanx Pikemen
=Greek Phalanx Pikemen
=Persian Phalanx Pikemen
//Missile Infantry
=Macedonian Archers
=Agrianes (Peltasts)
=Thracian Peltasts
=Cretan Archers
=Persian and other West Asian Archer Mercenaries
//Siege Units
=Small Balista
=Balista
=Catapult
=Large Catapult
According to Arrian, Alexander used Arachosian, Bactrian, Parapamisadaean, Sogdian, Indian, and Scythian troops
////MAURYA EMPIRE, lots of light infantry and elephants
//Cavalry
=Elephants
=Chariots, Heavy Archers
=Heavy Cavalry, Rare
=Medium Cavalry, Rare
=Light Spear Cavalry
=Light Javelin Cavalry
//Infantry
=Heavy Ksatriya Macemen
=Heavy Ksatriya Two Handed Swordsmen
=Light Two Handed Axemen
=Light Swordsmen
=Light Spearmen
=Tribal Spearmen, special spearmen from the Sabar Tribe
=Levy Spearmen
//Missile Infantry
=Longbowmen
=Tribal Bowmen, special archers from the Nishada and Sabar Tribes
=Composite Bowmen
=Javelinmen
=Tribal Javelinmen
=Naptha Throwers?
//Siege Units
-A distinguishing characteristic of Indian siege and artillery was reliance on fire arrows/pitch pots/fireballs
=Ballista
=Catapult
////PORUS, good cavalry and bonus in deserts
//Cavalry
=Elephants
=Chariots, Heavy Archers
=Heavy Cavalry
=Medium Cavalry
=Ghandhara Cavalry
=Light Spear Cavalry
=Light Javelin Cavalry
//Infantry
=Heavy Porus Infantry, Maces and Axes
=Heavy Ksatriya Macemen
=Heavy Ksatriya Two Handed Swordsmen
=Light Punjab Two Handed Axemen
=Light Punjab Swordsmen
=Light Punjab Spearmen
=Tribal Punjab Spearmen
=Levy Punjab Spearmen
=Jat Spearmen
//Missile Infantry
= Punjab Longbowmen
=Tribal Punjab Bowmen
=Punjab Composite Bowmen
=Punjab Javelinmen
=Punjab Tribal Javelinmen
=Naptha Throwers?
//Siege Units
-A distinguishing characteristic of Indian siege and artillery was reliance on fire arrows/pitch pots/fireballs
=Ballista
=Catapult
KingKorgoth
huzurat
Just clearing the basic concepts with whatever I remember..
For this mod to be accurate it must include gandhara and some part of Iran since the western world had started making contact with Indian cultures in this period
I would suggest we go through "de Bello mundi v1.2" since the campaign map includes both Europe,Anatolia,Egypt,Iran and entire India(we maybe able to expand the reach of our original "India total war" as well...aleast halfway into iran and central asia)
Basic information on the political landscape of India in 326 BC to clear the concepts
India at the time was divided into 16 Mahajanapadas
Jana means people....Janapada means the land where the people reside
Originally in the vedic times Janapada were smaller and less powerful..overtime these states grew in military might and wealth and became Mahajanapadas...Maha means great...
So In the Indian context provinces/settlement regions(not city centres) should be called with their name and Mahajanapada as a suffix...
16 Mahajanapadas include
Anga
Magadha
Kasi
Kosala
Vajji
Malla
Chedi
Vatsa
Kuru
Panchala
Matsya
Surasena
Asmaka
Avanti
Gandhara
Kambhoja
Each of these states/provinces had a capital city(u could say a provincial capital like in Rome II)
It is important to note that initially each of these states had their own kingdoms/states(in the beginning) and each of these families were atleast descended from a Godly warrior/clan in Hindu mythology.(those mentioned in the epic Mahabharata)....but by the time we arrive at our mod period..the powerful mahajanapadas had subdued and eliminated the weaker ones(in accordance with chanakya's concept of "Matsya bheda" where bigger fish swallow the smaller fish) and all semblance of regional/local rule/roots had eroded...by this time ruling families were prone to imperial tendencies and wars were fought to annex or vassalise and ruling was no longer done to preserve the balance of power between regional states
So we will have the following main factions (I have to go through my books...but the ones I'm mentioning here are from what I remember and they 100% existed)
1)Parvataka Rajya (Porus's kingdom...I know historians are divided on the issue of similarity between Porus and parvatak...but parvatak was altleat a rival and former ally of Chandragupta in the play mudrakshasa )
2)Nanda Samrajya
3)Maurya rebels(later Samrajya.
..I guess they start as a horde faction)
4)Kalinga Rajya(secessionists from Nandas in the aftermath of Mauryan insurgency and coup-de-tat)
The "three Moovendars"/3 lords of south India thriving in the "sangam age"
5)Cholas
6)Cheras
7)Pandyas
Hellenic factions
8)Macedonian empire( since it's 326 BC,Alexander is still very much alive and campaigning in northwestern India)
9)Seleucid empire
Another Indian faction named
10)Taxila(ruled by ambhi)
There are many more civilised factions and tribal factions (I'll read once again and then list out later) but these are pakka 100%
Continued from above...
Forms of government
1)Rajya - absolute monarchy/dictatorship/kingship - smaller factions especially ones that are not based in Magadha i.e factions that don't rule magadha
2)Samrajya - centralised empire/emperorship - larger factions like Nandas,Mauryas...those that rule magadha..
Magadha has had imperial tendencies since time immemorial...even in Hindu scriptures(not to be seen as historical as these texts are filled with supernatural feats and elements),Magadha was the seat of a tyrant emperor named Jarasandha...Jarasandha had supposedly crushed and vassalised everyone in his neighbourhood...bhagavata Purana mentions him invading Mathura 17 times.
Each time with an army of 23 akshauhinis(in Hindu texts,an akshauhini is 109350 footmen+65610 cavalry+21870 chariots+21870 elephants=218700 units...so 23 akshauhini = 23x218700=5030100units...remember not total men but units..a chariot or an elephant can accommodate more than one man )..each time lord Krishna(the principal deity and supreme god in Hinduism ) defeated and vanquished his forces
Atleast in mythological realm Jarasandha's feat would not be outdone until Duryodhana sent his friend Karna at the head of an army to conduct "Digvijaya" and vassalise the entire Indian subcontinent...karna succeeds and duryodhana becomes the emperor atleast until pandavas overthrow him
In the famed 18 day mahahbharata / kurukshetra war
3)Ganas/Sangha - democracies/council of small rajans
Magadha began its imperial career by subduing these petty democracies under Bimbisara and his successors
4)Independent Rebels - mostly with tribal cultures
Continued from above..
Types of religions / cultures
1)Vedic Hinduism
As usual one of the oldest in India...going purely by Hindu narrative
Hinduism or Sanatan dharma as it is called locally has been described as "Apaureshaya"(meaning no end and no beginning...hindu religion has had no prophets that established it...only saints/rishis and Intellectuals that revolutionised it from time to time)
With all its positives,in our mod it comes at a price of low recruitment pool...Hinduism has had a problem of Caste system that kicked meritocracy out of the window...this meant that only Kshatriyas and other upper castes could take up arms in war or rule..though this rule does not apply strictly and many kings and emperors started with humble background)
2)Jainism
3)Buddism
Both Jainism and buddhism emerged and gained traction due to the lobbying of priestly class or the brahmins...the middle and lower castes especially trader class vaishyas shifted to Buddhism and jainism after finding out that their avenues of ascending the political ladder were barred
The famous Chandragupta Maurya converted to jainism after retiring from emperorship and died by Samidhi (self denial) at sharavanbelagola in Karnataka
Maybe we can somehow associate low morale with its units because of their abstinence from violence which they call "Ahimsa"
4)Ajivika sect
This is another lesser known sect but existed at the time
5)Tribal religions (mix of hinduism with tribal belief systems)
6)Hellenism/Greek culture
...in the Hindu context Hellenic people would be called "Mlechchas" or "Yavanas/Yonas"(racist terms for Greeks and Islamic invaders just like how Romans called others barbarians and Muslims called other believers as Kafirs)
7)Zoroastrianism
An older religion in Persia...centered around Ahura Mazda
8)Sangamism/Sangam culture/Sangam hinduism
Practised in south India...in many ways they practised a somewhat liberal form of Hinduism with remarkable freedom given to womenfolk in choosing their spouses and in their education
Continued from above...
The political landscape of north India or "Aryavarta" as it was called then,is shown below in this image..
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Since each of the mahajanapadas had a political city centre/provincial capital,the following cities are to be compulsorily featured in the mod..
List of Ancient Janapadas and Mahajanapadas and their respective capitals
1)Anga
Champa
2)Magadha
Earlier Rajgriha, later Patliputra(so both cities to be included)
3)Malla
Capitals at Kusinara and Pawa
4)Vajji
Vaishali
5)Kosala
Sravasti
6)Kashi
Varanasi
7)Chedi
Shuktimati
8)Kuru
Indraprastha & Hastinapur
9)Vatsa
Kaushambi
10)Panchala
Ahichhatra(Uttara Panchala) and Kampilya( Dakshina Panchala)
11)Matsya
Viratanagara
12)Sursena
Mathura
13)Avanti
Ujjaini and Mahishmati
14)Ashmaka
Potana
15)Kamboja
Capital at Rajapura in modern-day Kashmir
16)Gandhara
Taxila
So these cities will form the basic layout of our mod's campaign map atleast as far as the Indian subcontinent is concerned..
KrishnaCN Awesome! Thanks for the research, I just started working on this and the 1500s mod will still be the main focus but I'll post an early version with a few factions in the next week or so.
And I'll check the de Bello mundi v1.2 map and see about expanding the to the west a bit
Standard military concepts of ancient india
Ancient hindu armies fought in the classical "chaturanga" (4 wing) system
1)Infantry (both melee and missile)
2)Cavalry (both melee and missile)
3)Chariot/ratha
4)elephant brigade
The elephants and chariots were the shock force deployed infronta the infantry
The cavaly was deployed on the wings
The standard modus operandi was to use shock force (chariots and elephants) to rout the enemy lines and then converge on the disorganised enemy from all directions with cavalry and infantry in an all out assault...However this would be the very same approach to warfare that rendered Hindu kingdoms vulnerable to Islamic invaders...the clash between early Hindu emperors would be somewhat motivated by both wealth as well as prestige...each king prided on his army's strength and sought to resolve the conflict by strength of arms..this made war between kings seem more like a sport/game of wrestling...this rendered tactics and maneuverability obsolete..
It would be however prudent to say that not all engagements would be so huge and include all four wings....though inspired by literature and traditions the generals would have to conform to reality and carry out any flexible mission that was required and use the suitable units Instead of fielding all wings
Besides not all Janapadas or kingdoms were rich enough to afford and field huge brigades of elephants and cavalry as mentioned in puranic terms
Very few states like Magadha that had access to elephants in forests and other resources could field large armies that conform to puranic terms
So the concept and rules of warfare according to puranic literature and it's terms would be an ideal condition...i.e the state would field it only if it had the manpower and resource to do so
Indian militaries atleast fought along or were atleast inspired by military concepts in Hindu literature...a standard composition of any Hindu army in ancient India would be along these lines
One elephant (Gaja), one chariot (Ratha), three horses (Ashwa) and five foot soldiers (Padhata) form a Patti;
Three Pattis form a Sena-Mukha;
Three Sena-Mukhas make a Gulma;
Three Gulmas a Gana;
Three Ganas a Vahini;
Three Vahinis a Pruthana;
Three Pruthanas a Chamu;
Three Chamus an Anikini;
Ten Anikinis form an Akshauhini. Thus an Akshauhini(like a elaborated in the above post), by calculation, contains 21,870 elephants, 21,870 chariots, 65,610 Horses, and 109,350 foot soldiers.
A total of 2,18,700 units(not total men)
Numerical strength of armies would be measured in units of akshauhini(like for e.g 2 akshauhini , 2.5 akshauhini etc etc )
In the famous 18 day battle of kurukshetra(in Hindu epic Mahabharata..again I stress on the mythological realm of the epic...one cannot conclusively prove or disprove Mahabharata...a better guess would be that the fratricidal war probably happened given the association of the names of so many Janapadas with warriors and their clans in the epic, but definitely not on the scale as mentioned and definitely without the magical and supernatural elements)the Kuru incumbent duryodhana fielded as many as 11 akshauhinis while yudhishtira and his Panchala allies fielded 7 akshauhinis
Casualties on both sides according to the epic were heavy...Duryodhana lost his entire army while the victorious but already depleted rebel army was slaughtered to the last man singlehandedly by ashwatthama in a night sneak attack/raid..
One can imagine the extent to which puranic literature influenced the militaries of ancient kingdoms
huzurat
For this era,don't u think it would be cool to have an "Ashwamedha" mechanic?? wherein all Hindu factions can either allow the horse to roam reely and pay tribute or capture it and risk going to war with performing hindu faction...it would be accurate as well don't u think ??
Concept of Digvijaya and Ashwamedha
Ancient hindu military traditions are replete with terms like Digvijaya,Dharmavijaya and Ashwamedha
Digvijaya refers to territorial annexation in 4 directions after which the ashwedha sacrifice would be performed....rulers performed this to emulate and associate themselves with godly warriors in Hindu puranic literature
Dharmavijaya is an act of humbling enemy kingdoms militarily...reinstating the defeated kings back on their thrones and exacting annual tributes as a mark of supremacy
huzurat
KingKorgoth
Guys just reminding u...unlike our mods based on later periods,ancient indian history is very obscure....sadly many ancient Indian sources are lost to us
Often history,chronology and genealogy of kings in this era are reconstructed by a combined study of puranic religious literatue,artifacts,coins,surviving sources,monuments and inscriptions...the characters and events in this era are often romanticised and exaggerated...the origin of kings and their backgrounds are subject to multiple distortions....kings are often depicted as legendary heroes...different sources(depending on Buddhist,Jain and Hindu sources) citing different stories....for e.g there are multiple origin stories on Chandragupta Maurya(u would assume the story of the first man to make India a major polity in history would be very well documented,given the fact that he led a major insurgency against a wealthy and powerful state and ascended the throne) himself...even his grandson Ashoka Maurya has multiple legends associated with him ....there are many missing links in ancient Indian history...chanakya is largely credited to have guided a young man to the throne of India.....he has been praised time and again for his cunning,statesmanship and intelligence.....his work on how to govern(Arthashastra) has survived but surprisingly no story on how exactly he propelled Chandragupta to the throne has been found(or has it been lost to time)...instead we have a play called "Mudrarakshasa" which is again written by a poet...besides this was also the same time Greek and Roman writers were documenting everything they knew about...even hundreds of years down the lane(after Alexander's death)Roman historians were researching on Alexander's life....western sources on Alexander document even the tiniest of incidents in Alexander's campaigns from him nearly being killed in Granicus to almost drowning in water once...from his bouts of alcoholic temper to his most subtle and decisive military maneuvers....a Greek diplomat named Megasthenes toured India and wrote down everything he noticed albeit with his own erroneous interpretation of what he saw....western historians took so much trouble to know about other cultures....even Chinese pilgrims in search for books in India wrote down everything they saw and faced...we have stories of how frequently hiuen tsang was frequently accosted and harassed by roadside bandits....yet none of our ancestors seem to have documented a single thing about their own daily lives without mixing it up with legendary and fantastical stories...it would be accurate to say that ancient India was more interested in its "past" than its history
Given the nature of varying stories on our elusive kings and leaders themselves,it's going to be impossible to accurately describe the military and the kind of units that fought in this era...it is nigh impossible to point a finger and say that so and so were the kind of soldiers that fought in these armies....only a good guess can be made as far as indian militaries of this period are concerned....at best what even good authentic history books,historians and sources can gives us is an overview and a good guesswork on the types of soldiers that were employed,the types of military units,military and administrative hierarchy,the different wings of the army,the kind of fortifications,the city layout,the type of administration etc
I guess we'll have to import units from other mods and Rome total war Alexander...I've gone through "De Bello Mundi v1.2" (please note the 1.2 version from twcenter not the latest one..the latest version does not have India....for the hellenic factions,we may import from the latest version which is on moddb itself) and it may be a good place to start with for rosters.
are u planning on adding missions ?
Yes in some form, they'll be based on historical events but I haven't done much research in to this time period yet so I'm not sure what exactly they will be, but one example may be; since Alexander the Great faced mutinous troops after his battle with Porus and had to leave India, the early campaign battles of the Macedon faction in Punjab must be handled carefully, if you lose too many troops then you will be more likely to have rebellious officers and have to rely on native mercenary troops, or something like that
KingKorgoth
Please remove gangaridai from ur faction list in the article....I'm a little unsure of my knowledge here especially since there is lack of proper sources on this and all sources are mostly western(which gives scope for their misunderstanding since they never marched or conquered that far)..because gangaridai is an unknown obscure and unidentified region(to this day) or faction mentioned by greco-roman historians
The region or faction of gangaridai has now been mostly associated and identified with the Nanda empire itself....Diodorus mentions that prasii and gangaridai were 2 nations ruled by one king,and the only one king that powerful and paramount in the land between the Indus and Bengal in that time would be Dhana Nanda
Most of these western writers couldn't even pronounce Indian names and gave their own erroneous weird terms and names to people and places of other cultures...for e.g they called Chandragupta as "Sandrocottus"
They called his son emperor Bindusara as Amitrochates
Alexander after vassalising Porus hoped to march down the Indus and trounce the Indian kings because he supposedly saw himself as an heir of Heracles and wanted to succeed where even Heracles had failed
But he was briefed that the kings below the river were waiting for him with a large host of Infantry(in the lakhs),cavalry and chariots(in thousands) and large brigade of elephant(in thousands)..this "supposedly" deterred Alexander(we never know that for sure...because after all the man was a war monger and delighted in war....in stark contrast to what propagandists today would have u believe,he was stopped because of a mutiny and not of his own accord)....but at the same time this news(of such a large field army)greatly disheartened and terrorised his soldiers(since they had seen enough of the rampage that elephants at hydaspes went on)....Alexander apparently called upon Porus to verify these reports and Porus confirmed these numbers whilst adding that the erstwhile ruler was also very unpopular amongst his subjects since he overtaxed them and came from a low caste background...
Megasthenes who toured the Mauryan empire of india(just a few years after Diadochis divided and haggled over the Alexandrian Empire) mentions that prasii were the people who reside near Ganges...gangaridai are also supposed to have been residing near the Ganges....this has led many to believe that gangaridai was a loose term applied generally to all people residing in the indo-Gangetic plain(it consists of Punjab,Delhi,uttar Pradesh,Bengal and Bihar)....and since the only kingdom that stretched so far between the kingdom of Punjab(Porus's domains) to Bihar and Bengal at that point in time would be the Nandas,there is a general consensus that gangaridai was probably the core area(the Gangetic delta) of Nandas and prasii was probably the vassalised part of the empire.....this is as far as I know.....so we are probably better off without a fictional unidentified kingdom....finding sources for existent factions is itself difficult for this period.....however I'd like to know what huzurat thinks about this though
KrishnaCN You're right it probably doesn't make since to add them, I'll take them out. I haven't done much research into this time period, most sources say they were Nanda but one source said they may have been the bengal delta vassals of the Nanda so I put them in because I was worried about Nanda being too large and powerful, but i'll just add a severe faction-wide disorder trait for Dhana Nanda. Thanks for the input!
rome total war and Rome II's music should be rather used for this 326 BC mod rather than our 1519 mod...so im sorry about that... my bad...I wasnt sure about whether u were going to delve into an ancient Indian setting
Fortunately apart from Rome 1 and Rome 2's music I found out some really cool musician's album....his name is Michael Levy......check him out on youtube....this guy particularly specialises in ancient music and ancient musical instrumentals...u will enjoy the feel of antiquity
KingKorgoth
huzurat
KingKorgorth,
Contrary to popular belief(like u've enquired in ur article with a ? Mark),the appropriate emblem for Mauryans would be an imperial peacock rather than the 3 headed lion....the 3 headed lion was merely a part of sculptural activities in emperor Ashoka's times(especially his Buddhist days)....there is no evidence to suggest that a lion was the emblem of the Mauryas...rather the lion is a symbol associated with Lord Buddha's enlightenment(elephant is associated with his conception in his mother's womb since she had a dream of an elephant,the bull refers to his initial ignorance and the horse refers to his renunciation)
The Mauryas however are described by Tamil literature as "Moriyars"...in shramanic traditions(Buddhist and Jain tradition) the eytmology varies slightly ,with Buddhist sources describing the Maurya clan as an offshoot of Buddha's Sakya clan and Jain sources claiming that chandragupta's father was a superintendent of royal peacocks....Buddhist sources mainly claim that the clan came from a region abundant with peacocks
Maurya is supposedly derived from "Moriya" and "Mor" means peacock in Hindi
Coincidentally despite varying origin stories both traditions are equivocally associating them with peacocks...moreover the association with peacocks is corroborated by archaeological and architectural evidence...there are images of peacock on ashoka's pillar as well
So it would be a safe,good and intelligent guess to say that the peacock was most probably the royal emblem of the House of Mauryas
KrishnaCN Ah! i'll fix that, Since there is less historical research into this time period, coming up with faction symbols and colors will be a bit more difficult than the 1519 mod, but if you have any ideas or input don't hesitate to post. Thanks!
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