Enjoy the classic broodwar game with improved mechanics, new units, upgrades, abilities, and lot of changes that will improve the gameplay and open new strategies and compositions to fight with.

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Add media Report RSS New Zerg unit: Ravager
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KYSXD
KYSXD

LOVE THEM.

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skff1234
skff1234

wow! great!

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Templarfreak
Templarfreak

The one problem with the Ravager's Corrosive Bile ability is that it is a hard counter against lock-into-place siege units like the Siege Tank or Lurker. Because of the other ability, it'll have a place in ZvZ but at the same time it will basically be the only change to the meta because of Corrosive Bile. If you really want to keep this ability, try putting it on a different unit.

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RavenWolf Author
RavenWolf

Take in mind that here the ability uses energy. So terrans can counter it with emp or protect tanks with defensive matrix. Also ravagers are large units, so they take full damage from tanks and the ability have less range.
In ZvZ i have some concerns as ravager can counter lurkers and mutalisk while roaches are good tanking hydra and zerglings, so the mid game can turn into roach-ravager wars, but i hope that bane-hydra will be a counter to roach-ravager (in contrast with SC2, here roaches are small units and ravagers large).
For the next version im considering another zerg caster that can burrow move (and burrow cast) that probably will have one of the ravager spells, so the ravager will be less core unit, but more specialized.

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Łagi
Łagi

Nice unit.
Templarfreak know the "craft". :)

Another ground attacking unit for zerg. Still no core anti-air ground unit, with default attack, so it can be stand alone, without need to focus on casting.

suggest: default attack which work like Spore Cloud (toxic cloud is better name IMO), Cloud would need some nerf to be normal unit attack, but zerg army auto-creating cloud-wall when enemy air approach would be decent.

Fungal Scourge as upgrade: granting casting skill, so if player focus on Ravager's, they can boost them with one clickable skill, that affect ground targets.

/I know its SC2, but maybe we can tailored Ravager behavior to sc1 needs?/

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RavenWolf Author
RavenWolf

I dont take SC2 as a must follow path for units. Only some aspects that i find that can be good for SC1. Originally i added the Ravager as a dedicated GtA with long range concussive attack and only spore cloud as ability. But it turns becoming only good against muta as hydra were much better against other air compositions and more responsive in general.
So I decided to give them corrosive bile-like ability to add more usage out of that match (counter lurkers, tanks and static defences).

Now the unit still attack air and ground with its default attack, but i'm not sure to leave that way as can synergy to well with hydra, so hydra-roach can become extremely good as each unit complement the weakness of the other. Im still tinkering range/damage of ravagers to see if can retain its GtA attack. The other option is to remove its GtA attack and make spore cloud cheaper (and weaker) so it can be spammed more. (Or buff their attack and give the ability to other unit, but this wont happen until the next version)

Making it its default attack doesn't seems fine to me, as would force too much micro from opponent having to constantly move units out off the clouds (that also the concerns i have of making spore cloud more spammable)

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Łagi
Łagi

Ravager: no GtG; avarage, middle range GtA
Rare, caster with strong, but energy expensive abilites.

Zerg has AtA tools (scourge, devourer) but they are hardly an option if opponent already has air dominance. Zerg gameplay crave for ground solutions. Hydra is overused jack-of-all-trades. Using Hydra for GtA, show obvious role gap to fulfil in Zerg gameplay. Maybe introducing Ravager is a good time to remove some 1-2 damage from Hydra's GtA?

Opponent micro to defend vs Clouds is sensible argument to not make Cloud a default attack. Area of Effect suggest strong ability, that reward skilled targeting more than click-spam. Taking it all into consideration I see Cloud as energy expensive skill that is cast once (max 2 if full energy/with Energy upgrade) per Ravager, but spell is very effective.

You mean with morp possibilities Hydra (Lurker) – Roach (Ravager) final army composition has no weakness and it might reduce production unit to this two? I would rather remove GtG attack from Rav., making him susceptible to ground units. Long range Cloud + middle range GtA to finish off cloud survivors.

To balance GtA, Ravager need to become rare unit. Mirror eco decision of Hydra=>Lurker. By morphing Roach to Ravager, player sacriface GtG capabilities for more power to counter air. The question shall be: "how strong air force I expect from opponent, how many ground power should I keep?"

Fungal Scourge (Fungal bomb is better name) range disadvantage compare to static defenses require Ravager to has more HP ~150, to survive coming closer. Fungal is a great addition. Upgrade (i hope) that tweak the usability of an unit (not only anti air), fit a lot to the spirit of the game. Fungal with it cherry-picking target (invisible, burrow) will find his function.

P.S. Adding Consume ability to Ravager would help in late game with energy lacks or fresh morphs when you quickly need to counter enemy air and rushly transform some Roach. Knowing when to Consume is also skill.

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RavenWolf Author
RavenWolf

Well that's a nice approach. But for the moment i don't want to make ravagers a powerful anti air unit. That would make the ground-ranged path able to adapt to most situations and can turn outshining most of the other zerg compositions. (nerfing hydra GtA or tweaks their stats may help to balance this approach. But for now i decide to let core units closer to BW)
I want Ravagers to provide some support against specific air compositions (mutalisk, wraiths) but not a general counter against air.

Spore cloud is more oriented to split enemy air units from ground, its also useful to counter Valkyries in hunter mode, and carriers (as can kill interceptors). While also offering a form of anti air splash, thats why i prefer a cheaper weak spell.
Zerg already have a powerful caster with expensive abilities in the defiler. With the two spells being very powerful and game changing (and plague already can be used to deal lot of damage to air units as well as ground)

I mean ravager-hydra (my mistake). Hydras already are good all around units. In combination with ravagers they can overcome some of their weakness.
Anyway, I did a kind of path choosing between the two compositions making roach-ravager require lot of upgrades (2 for roaches - 2 for ravagers). So if you want to mix both compositions you need a heavy investment in upgrades

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Łagi
Łagi

From watching pre-view, Ravager looks quite powerful in GtG area (no hide from Fungal skill, mid+ range of attack). I'm affraid it may devaluate other melee units (mostly Ultra).

Resign from GtA and cloud spam? Without autocast, at least let Rav be rare unit, to reduce micro with unit switching.
//edit: there will be smart casting I'm idiot :D//

Let DPS be nerf with reduced attack speed, slow missle GRP, but rather high dmg stat will fit for large unit. Hope his stronger side would become supporting skills, not GtG attack.

Can not await to test 1.7 ;)

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Raygoza
Raygoza

I'm worried that Roaches and Ravagers together will leave the Hydralisk out of use the same way you choose between getting either a sunken Colony or a Spore Colony.

With this in mind I do think it'd be good if Ravagers were to be fewer with real supporting skills, Terran has Ghost as their Infantry support too, Protoss has Sentries, Zerg only get Infestors later on.
Just asking not to render the Hydralisk unused not even to the level of SC2 which makes it rarely useful.

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Łagi
Łagi

To avoid being competition to other unit (hydra, melee), maybe let his core attack to slow down the target (move speed), with dealing only marginal damage (4?) Kind of Sorceress from Warcraft 3.

this way it could combine well with Hydra (without taking his place) and his own spell.
Ravager will be define even more in supporting role.

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RavenWolf Author
RavenWolf

@Lagi: Ravager attack works better against small units while hydra is better against large. Even their DPS against small units is inferior than two hydras (that also are cheaper by 50 gas). So their regular attack is weak most of the time and can't outshine Ultras or hydras. Ravagers needs to effectively use their abilities to justify their cost.

@Raygoza: I'm aiming to make the two compositions (hydra-lurker and roach-ravager) to be similar in strength and options. Both compositions have a stealth component and limited power against air. Hydras are better dealing damage but more susceptible to splash.
In some scenarios one will be better that the other, but not in every case. So you may need to focus on one composition and mix other units to try to compensate their weakness (even with units from the other composition). Hydras may need to add guardians to counter siege units, ravager may need to add devourers against capital ships, etc...

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Black_Overseer
Black_Overseer

I love it.

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Description

Roaches now can morph into Ravagers, a mid ranged unit that deals concussive damage and have two combat abilities:
-Spore Cloud that creates a toxic cloud that spread to any air unit that touches it dealing damage over time (the longer the unit is in contact with the cloud the longer the DoT effect will last)
-And Fungal Scourge that launch a fungal bomb that hit the target area after 3 seconds dealing splash damage to ground units (basically the same as corrosive bile from LotV but only affect ground units)

Ravager portrait by skff1234 - Moddb.com
Ravager grp and wireframe from HunCraft Genocide - Moddb.com

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