Enjoy the classic broodwar game with improved mechanics, new units, upgrades, abilities, and lot of changes that will improve the gameplay and open new strategies and compositions to fight with.
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More starting minerals | Locked | |
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Jan 24 2013 Anchor | ||
Begining in SC is rather boring, you always have to wait until you produce enough workers to start building. Solution is increasing the number of starting workers or the starting minerals ?
So there is still possibility to increase minerals. I think at least 100 starting crystal its safe - no race can build Barracks/Stargate or smt and still obvious choice is to build worker (personally I would increase starting crystal to 125). Increasing starting mineral is real-time-saver and begining of game with slower speed (lie Normal) would be less passive. Some creative critics of this idea (slightly changed by me) |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
In this case the Protoss would gain the advantage of such a change, currently as soon as they get 50 energy which is enough for self chrono boost even if they use it they wouldn't have enough minerals to keep production on constantly, increasinbg the starting minerals would make them able to constantkly produce Probes even once they are able to use the ability which would cause them to macro up quickly. At the moment I find it being better as if you would chrono boost once you get the chance you'd loose a moment of worker production with the ability active. Also in the Terrans casde theer are build orders of building the first supply depot by 9 of 10 supply and then wait a moment until you get enough for the first Barracks, with teh extra minerals you'd not have to wait till you can afford the barracks as you would do that automatically and then you would be able to decide getting an other building like Raffinary or something fairly quickly. And about the zerg I agree with RavenWolf's opinion So if 100 starting minerals is too much why not make it 75, che change would be small and fun to play with and the impact wouldn't be that big either. |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
I agree, in fact with 100 mineral Player can immediately start building something (supply Depot) which may disturb some building orders (and starting rush clicking). So how about 99? All 4 workes will have to gather minerals (which give 4x8=32), it take some time, so there is no difference in the first orders. Now with 50 starting, workers have to make three course to build something [0 mineral (-50 build worker) + 32 + 40 (72 total) + 40 (112 total)], I prefer 99, because beginning is just boring and the more mineral the better (for me). |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
In any case I think there shouldn't be too drastic changes, besides no one should build a supply thing at the start which only means that 99 is almost 100 and does almost the same thing, therefor the effect of that is still big, since we're talking resources between 50 and 100 I find 75 being the best bet at getting a more interesting and balanced beginning and not have such a big impact on the game except getting the builds earlier for every race, think about it, only 25 minerals difference, can't be that bad you know. |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
I was wrong, zerg start with 3 larvae, and larva spawn time its the same as drone morph. Start building a supply depot or other stuff wont give any advantage, as you will lose the income that a worker can harvest. So probably starting resources will be increased for the next version. |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
Look my main point with incerasing starting minerals is that it could allow the Protoss to self Chrono as soon as possible without running out on minerals during the chrono boost unlike how it is at the moment because you would loose production time by not having enough minerals to afford constant worker production if you'd self chrono boost as soon as possible. |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
Remember that nexus now start with 0 energy, so at the time you can use crhono boost the extra resources will be already gone. |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
If you'd find or get a fix for more workers at the start for every race would you keep the starting minerals at 50? |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
I can get a fix for more workers for every race... I also changed how every mineral patch worker gets gives you 5 minerals. Just like sc2! This fixes the problem of the extra minerals. I have added 6 workers and 5 minerals each patch in my mod already. I can help you if you want... |
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Jan 25 2013 Anchor | ||
Sure, I would like to know how to increase the starting amount of workers. There is an exe edit for gather amount and times, but i didn't find anyone to increase starting of units. |
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Feb 6 2013 Anchor | ||
Is it possible to make at start workers to go automatically harvesting minerals? Without players command. They already find the way to another crystals if one is occupy or exploited. |
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Feb 6 2013 Anchor | ||
Of course it is possible, the Starcraft: Dawn of Change has this feature. |
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Feb 6 2013 Anchor | ||
You re right. DoC mod is quite nice, its actully a remake, however like Rev more. |
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Feb 6 2013 Anchor | ||
Yes, it can be simply done changing some AI commands in DataEdit. |
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Feb 7 2013 Anchor | ||
I guess that we can count for some change in the starting mechanic? My proposition: 100 (+50 if cancel worker training) is enough to build rafinery or farm , but its not default move for most players and with one worker in queue it looks like there is still 50 starting minerals. with 6 workers player still need min. 2 courses with all workers to start building something OR build Barrack/Starggate if cancel worker training. Sending one worker for scouting is also less punishing in the begining. workers __+ crystal per course (total after 1 course) / total after 1 course, if cancel worker training P.S. Main reason to do that is to remove unnecessary and repetitive every game micro and increase game dynamic especially in the slower than "fastest" gamespeeds. |
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Feb 7 2013 Anchor | ||
Still I don't think that increasing the starting minerals is a good idea, a increase in starting workers alone is what I think is enough, considering that the Hatchery spawns a larva before the first mutating Drone is done and this is if you'd start with one larva, I think it's simply better to increase the starting workers to 6 and you'll have the same limitations as in regular multiplayer which already is balanced, the increase will only make the game more dynamic without affect the balance in any way, changing the starting resources in any way does change the balance even if the change is small. |
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Feb 7 2013 Anchor | ||
I am not a big fan of thouse " early eco balance issues" because in my opinion there is not making such a big impact to the game, if zerg have 50 more or less minerals. I just dont see it. For my problem is f.ex. Zerg lacking with good anti-air units or Terran OP (tanks, BC). This is serious impact to the game. In your (Raygoza) variant (50 minerals, not 100), I think there should be at least 7 starting workers. My point is to allow player to start building faster. I know that there is no such pop-cap in the beginning, so 8 +1 in queue (9 is zerg/protoss limit). [if no 100 starting minerals] |
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Feb 7 2013 Anchor | ||
I have an idea which I think could be good, Increase starting workers to 6, allowing Drone to morph directly to Sunken Colony as known Creep and Spore can morph to each other and this could be good. I meant sunken and spore can morph into each other as known. |
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Feb 8 2013 Anchor | ||
Whats your point? To save minerals? Creep is just too expensive, because its 50 mineral for Drone +75 construction just for molding ground (and it have to be placed in already creeped terrain!). Afterthat you have to transform it to some defence structure for another 50 minerals [ 175 total !]. For some "extreme" undecided economists there is option to morph one(sunken/spore) into another for "only" 50 minerals. I dont play Zerg enough to be sure that my proposition is right, but ... |
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Feb 8 2013 Anchor | ||
I think that when we give ideas we should now a little about game mechanics. Also about my idea it was skipping the Creep colony in the acquirement of getting stationary defenses and morph directly to sunken, it does the same thing almost and the cost difference to your idea would be the same except for 50 minerals more expensive to get the spore colony. |
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Feb 9 2013 Anchor | ||
so your idea is to: 1. morphing directly Drone to Sunken Colony if 2.b. then RavenWolf can make from the Creep a cheap (drone cost only) Wall-kind structure, build in front of your units to give lurkers,sunken/spore protecition. It would looks like coral reef. my ideas was only propositions (all 4 of them would be OP) |
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Feb 9 2013 Anchor | ||
Considering that the Drone would be the cost for a tumor I don't see how it would be unbalanced because both the Drone and the tumor would be weak and killed easily and also allow Creep spreading, version 1 needed to be put on Creep or version 2 without Creep, without Creep people may think it's unbalanced because it could block off buildable ground, well that is what the Overlord or was it the Overseer could do in SC2, spreading Creep, though you could chase it off and it's creep spreading would be gone, in this case it's the Drone the sacrifices itself to make Creep which is pretty balanced with version 2 because you could make outposts, like the Protoss a Pylon to put defenses and other buildings, in this case it would be Creep instead of the Pylon energy area for the zerg, but the zerg defenses do also spread Creep, this is better than being able to put defense anywhere directly as the defenses would need Creep to be created in the first place. |
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Feb 9 2013 Anchor | ||
Well, starting amount of workers wont be changed for now, as Immortality doesn’t have time now to tell me how to increase the amount of workers. But i have increased the starting minerals to 100 and make the starting workers to automatically move to harvest minerals patch, they often go to the same patch so still require some micro to split them (this is only for the starting workers, the other stay near the base unless they have a rally point). About creep colony, I agree that they cost too much for only creep spreading. But the zerg defenses are the strongest in the game so the final cost its kind of justified. Im still looking for a way to make sunken <=> spore to morph free or with a reduced cost. About creep tumors can be a good option too. But I don’t see why drone should morph only into sunken colony and them morph into spore (that will cost more? why?), there should be able to morph from any of those buildings directly. Creep tumor wont requiring creep to be placed can cause two effects that im not sure I want to add. The creep tumor requiring creep may be the best option as will improve the creep spreading, but wont cause any of the above mentioned effects. Edited by: RavenWolf |
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Feb 9 2013 Anchor | ||
In that case would you mind if the Nydus Canal could spread Creep in a small radius of it? Also about Drone morphing directly into both defenses means that you need space fpr two buildings including the current Creep colony slot, but that tab is already full, The defeses already morph into each other and is very good because it gives them more flexibility because they are stationary and couldn't do anything else before except being what they are. I would prefer having a tumor that works like in SC2 but it seems unlikely to be done here and I'd like to see the Overlord making Creep, though it's possible I don't know how you'd tell the game when the Overlord is gone to stop generating Creep in the targeted area, my previous suggestion was using a tumor that the Overlord would drop, could either cost some minerals or energy, I think it may be a good idea allowing Overlords to drop tumors for something cheap like 25 minerals, but should it require Creep? I think it would be good to skip the Creep tumor when getting defenses because technically anti ground defenses would be made in half the time. |
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Feb 9 2013 Anchor | ||
Raygoza I don't understand what you want to say (maybe its my english or maybe I am stupid). "Wall" RavenWolf: Agree with your view about different style, but Zerg produce unit in Hatchery (liar/hive). Hatchery can be build anywhere. However its not so important. Its already great mod/game. |
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