Hunting for SaveGame bugs Thread - Haegemonia - Vector Prime mod for Haegemonia: The Solon Heritage

Collection of chat posts on the subject:

BBalazs May 1 2012, 1:56pm replied:
So to sum things up: If you have problems loading a saved game, try loading from the main menu - if that doesn't work, start a skirmish game, press ESC and load the file from that menu.

HunZolka May 1 2012, 8:30pm replied:
Hali from Hungary

I have a question, you are propably able to help me with that. I started to experiment with the hgma explorer and found out how to modify some important values that make this game very intense and more of a challenge for my gamer PC.

My problem is, that I modified the vanilla proton battleship, most notably by adding several extra weapons, that use the same gun/turret platforms. So the same turret on the ship model use several different weapons at once. The modification for it was made by adding extra '[weapon]' blocks to the .inf file. For example:
[Weapon]
{
ID = "id_32"
pod_type = "torpedo"
StunTime = 16
StunEffect = "Effects\Weapons\stun.inf"
MaxHPPercent = 5
EllipsoidSize = 3, 3, 2
TurretObjName = "turret08"
BarellObjName = "turret08"
MuzzleObjName = "turret08"
DelayForLostTarget = 500
TurretMinAngle = -2
TurretMaxAngle = 2
BarellMinAngle = -2
BarellMaxAngle = 2
}

It works very fine, the only problem is that the game (with or without mods) crashes often with 'sound system error', and the saves cannot load if they contain one of the this-way modified ships. So the saves are fine until I build this kind of modded ship. Other modifications seem fine.

Can you help me how to make this modification that doesn't crash the saves?

BBalazs May 2 2012, 6:22pm replied
For loading saved games, try loading it both from the main menu and from in-game and see what happens. We have very limited information on this crashing bug, and by far this has been our best shot.

I will try to see if Nussknacker's list has any ships with dual hardpoint assignments. If there is a match, we might have found a possible cause for this crashing error.

HunZolka May 2 2012, 9:40pm replied:
I kept experimenting some more, and I'm quite sure that the cause of this save crash phenomenon is this 'dual hardpoint assignment'.
If I add a weapon with an already used "turret##", "barrel##", or "muzzle##" the save crashes if a ship with such modification has been build in the game.

The problem is, that if I define a turret/barrel/muzzle with a number, which is not present at one of the original weapons' definitions, the game cannot start at all (there are turret07, turret08, turret11 originally, and I give turret12 to a new weapon). Otherwise the game can start, the new weapons work, but the saves crash. I'm confident that this is the cause of the problem. Unfortunately the possible solution for saves (loading from different environments) doesn't seem to work for me, though I use the vanilla game and not the VP mod.

Could you help me, or give a hint about how to define new 'hardpoints' for the vanilla game's ships?

BBalazs May 2 2012, 9:59pm replied
That is where the problem begins.

Weapon hardpoints are coded into the 3d model file (*.bmod) - this is why the game crashed when you defined hardpoints in the inf file that are inexistant in the bmod. Digital Reality's models have never been reverse-engineered. All we have is an exporter for the old 3ds max 5. No importers at all.

It was for this that we have been able to create new ships for MU4. But then again, we do not have the original max files, neither for VP 1.0 (the original devs couldn't provide them) nor simple TSH.

The problem is that I have been doing double hardpoints assignments a lot, that is how for example the A-Wing Mk.2 works. I do not have the original A-Wing max file so I had to stick to what I have.

I'm afraid our only hope here is several days worth of hex editing trial and error to see if we can add hardpoints manually into bmod files. Do you feel like helping with this one? I have an idea on how to get started on this, but I won't be able to do it alone.

HunZolka May 2 2012, 11:09pm replied:
Hi, I've looked into the bmod files with a hex editor, but it seems quite hard to understand... but you gave me a good idea still, I downloaded 3D Object Converter (I am totally noob to 3d modelling, so there are propably better apps for this out there), and with it I could load the bmod file for the ship, and in the 'Quick Object information' there were a bunch of familiar object names listed along with some I didn't see in the .inf file. For example "torony01", "turret03".

After this I used this turret03 for the new weapon block, and now I could add a new weapon, and my saves still work.

I couldn't find a way in this app to add new objects into the bmod file, but I belive now I can use these 'newly explored' objects as weapon platforms. Some of them are even acceptable as real gun platforms, though some appear obviously as a tinkered solution.

So unless it is really necessary to do real changes to the model files, it seems to me that this way new weapons can be safely added.

I've only had a short look into the VP, but it seems to me that most ships are either very small/fast, or big with lots of weapons to realize that some of the projectiles are actually coming from a 'bump' on the ship, and not from a cannon. Considering this, for now this solution may be just fine for VP as well (if VP ships also have this kind of useable 'extra' objects).

But if you still want to experiment with the hex editing, I might be willing to help. I may learn stg from it.

HunZolka May 3 2012, 9:48pm replied:
Update once again, turns out I was somewhat wrong about the source of the problem, though it really was related to [weapon] blocks. You already said the dual hardpoints may not be a problem, and today I made thorough checks and it is indeed confirmed.

However, I've realized what was initially the problem with my modification. It was not the dual hardpoint issue, but

the "id_##"-s that are present at every [body/drive/shield] and weapon blocks. If 2 [weapon] blocks use the same ID (for example id_17) it seems to cause no problem, BUT if a weapon AND an another hull object (for example shield or wing or whatever) have the same ID, then saves do crash. I don't have the patience to check through all .inf files of VP, but I checked a bunch, and so far I've found one:

Bases\_sw_matalok.inf

It was propably mistaken because the hulls that are defined first were assigned IDs by a seemingly chaotic order, and whoever defined the [weapon] blocks, he continued counting the id_## -s from the last [other-than-weapon], and didn't check if the following numbers were used already.

Now again, I'm sure I've found the source of the problem. I think I solved the save issue for ya, now you just need to implement it.

And so I have taken the liberty to prepare some simple Bmod files for our attempts at understanding their format.
You can get them here:
Dl.dropbox.com

The problem is that the files are way too complex, with some references continuously changing in the header and I've also no clue on how to understand the linking structure of dummies.

I am also going to fix the matalok cruiser, but as that is a Vong ship which appears only every so often I'm sure that is not our only source of the problem. Nussknacker, while playing that before mentioned savegame of yours, did you have Vong invasions enabled or disabled? As it happens, Vong ships have been suffering from this problem bigtime. The Miid Roik cruiser in particular had everything assigned to id_8..

Edited by: BBalazs

At the start of my games i got the message that Vong-invasions are disabled.
And i had not much time during the last days star new games. the only thing which is always the same is that loading of my savegame comes only to 50% then it crashes.

That 50% actually helps. I'll get back to that in a week and see if I get any results.

hey i don't if it is very helpful but when i have a save crash like in your case i restart the game and i can play that save that crashed

@MIRELICUS... i after i readed your idea i loaded, restarted, loaded, restarted, loaded... 5 times from mainmenu and 4 times from ingame... every try was a crash by loading status 50%...

sorry,but it works for me.prehaps because i have a different computer or something like that.In any case,hopely this problem will bw solved

Will be working on it in the spare time I have, I can promise that. Nevertheless, any experimentation is extremely helpful.

For now, the best thing you can do is create multiple saves of a single game, say every 10 minutes, so if one save doesn't load you can get back to a previous state.

I've been trying to sort out the thing with dual hardpoint assignments. It's still completely ambiguous - Zolka's posts seem to indicate that this is a sole problem, but I can still get games to load with dual hardpointed ships. I'll try to test for "lots of hardpoints" kind of ships in the near future.

The savegame crash has something to do with the research tree. I left the game on overnight to accumulate research points, so when I woke up I started doing all sorts of research. The AI tends to not send out units through jump holes unless you reload the game, so I saved after researching a whole bunch, then reloaded. Crash. Decided to reload the autosave that had occurred a few minutes before. Loaded fine (my savegame goes to 50% immediately, then continued to load). Did research, saved and reloaded, crash. The issue is with something in either the spy tech tree, electronics (advanced and superior), the last two engine techs (ion stream and ion vectoring), or light cruiser and super cap research.

I would place my money on it being a problem with the spy tech tree. Something in there is causing the problem. I'm gonna be starting another game and researching very little in the spy tech tree outside of defending against them, while saving before doing research in any of the areas mentioned, then reloading after saving in those areas. If all goes well, I can pinpoint the issue.

Thanks for the info, every little bit helps.
The problem could reside in the scripts used for a couple of game features, or as you mentioned the tech tree itself. I'll be looking into this as well. Please keep me informed

Well, I thought it was. It's not behaving as it was now. It seems to be more of a 'unlock too much and it'll crash' problem... Either that or the fact the AI actually had a decent sized army may cause it was well (on a side note, ships that spawn fighters will spawn them in 'jump space' while going through a jump node and they will be stuck there for an eternity, fighting whatever jumps in). I think I recall this issue actually occurring in the normal version of the game. If a map has a higher than 'default' number of ships capable of being built, and those ships are built, the game will crash sometimes during gameplay and will often crash during reload of the map and settings. It's probably a problem dealing with the main game itself and how it's engine handles an increased number of ships. This is all speculation, though...

i done some testing .i reached the same conclusion as Lordlandraid.to many ships build and to many researched stuff.i had the crash a few times but i always made new saves (one save at 10 mins,even five).now it depends on the map you are playing.I play on the siege map,and with a lot of saving the problem is solved for me.