This mod was made using all of the knowledge I obtained through my years of playing Yuri's Revenge mods. No, I did not copy and paste everything. Although, I won't deny that it is heavily inspired by AI developed in mods like Extra Hard, VSINI, Mental Omega, and ACBC10.
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Read the Change Log inside, lmao! -------------------------------------------------- 4/30: I accidentally didn't save the Defensive Apoc team change, but it doesn't matter anyway since the AI still hates to build it, regardless. It doesn't change anything.
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C&C: Yuri's Revenge
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Ugh did i accidentally delete my comment? Let me know if you dont have it an email or something ill retype it 🙄
I don’t see anything here. 🤣
Damn that took awhile lol
I was just babbling anyways. I said there was much anticipation waiting to play this. I noticed there was a new update before work and when I came home the site was down. Then when I finally got the download it took me several games to realize that when CnCNet updates it overwrites your files. I was wondering why it was so easy... anyways i eventually got it working.
Initial impressions are amazing. Both AI are doing better early game especially the soviets. In past versions when I would capture nearby Tech buildings the AI would attempt to send Engineers to steal them. But now they're immediately attacking them with the task force. If they're lucky they'll clear the way and then an engineer will still steal it! Nice job here.
The tesla tanks are awesome. Im going to say they are superior to mirage tanks now. Some balancing has shifted however because they are SO good the other soviet factions are jealous. Fully upgraded tesla tanks are ridiculous. Even the standard telsa troopers was pretty OP. But now its on wheels and cant can't be 1 shot killed. I personally love them. This puts the Russians in particular on par with any Allies faction. Yuri is really lacking now, BUT he can mind control so technically has access to any unit.
Prism tanks are fine. I don't even notice the reduced range. So they must have had too much lol
One interesting thing is i didn't know you could mod the AI to better see the mirage tanks. I was bringing it up but assumed that couldnt change. Well i think they need it. Humans usually know where they are. And even if the AI is getting some "clairvoyant" advantage, they need it. They'll never be as smart as the player.
Now there is only the issue of many maps having little space for them to build a base fully. I mean, Extra Hard has to deal with this too, and Mental Omega solves it by just making new maps altogether. But as far as balance goes, I'll say this is it, at least for the Allied and Soviets. How can we buff Yuri without making them too overpower? Give everyone a tier 3 defense that covers their weaknesses? Then what are their weaknesses?🤔
Its interesting we are discussing buffing Yuri because hes typically considered OP. "No Yuri" is a common online theme lol. So what was it that people find so OP? Is it the strength of the initiates? Which you have lowered. Hmm ill have to think about this. He may not be that weak. But maybe his floating disks need a tweak. They are nothing compared to a kirov attack.
IMO the bottom tier factions are Cuba and Iraq. They always were, but now the improved telsa tanks put Russia into the top tier. If I had a choice I would definitely choose Tesla tanks. They can one shot Infantry so they basically do what the desolator can do and more. Lybia has their own thing... and has always been annoyance. I still haven't tried them in the mod. I already hate them in vanilla lol
Oh no! Floating Discs are really OP, so I only have a large task force of it on hard. I'm surprised you aren't comparing it to the siege chopper attack. That is way more annoying to deal with than the Kirovs. 😂
Iraq at the bottom, eh? It's usually considered to be one of the top countries in the pro world, though. Although the AI can't deploy it just like with siege chopper, they still kill infantry and light vehicles incredibly fast. Terrorist is about as good as I can make them while staying fair.
Yes this is mostly my opinion and im no pro. I would go with popular opinion over mine. My only concern is the Telsa tank, with tweaks, is the obvious choice.
I should probably mention all my testing is with Hard. I momentarily switched to medium but i can at least handle 1v1 Hard.
I don't have much trouble with the seige choppers. But i try to meet them before allowing them to cause much damage.
You may have this pretty good as is. Ill spend more time with it and let you know.
Oh no no no. I was saying that your opinion is interesting. I also say that Yuri is weak, contrary to common opinion. This all comes down to perspective, really. And I really want to look at it from every angle to make sure that it isn't just the better experience for pros but also for the niche audience.
Well idk if this is new. But they are surprising me by keeping units inside the base. I was thinking that they should be attacking me as I'm starting to defeat them, BUT just as i thought i was going to win, they charged with ALL units and destroyed me.
While you've made much improvement, the Soviets are still extremely lacking in their AI compared to the Allies. The Allies are absolutely dominating both early and late game. I've tested this many times to try to time when they would begin using different units and tactics.
The Allies rule the early rush time. GI's and Gaurdians vs Conscripts and Telsa Troopers. No contest there. The only saving grace is the bunkers. But if you are battling on the field for tech buildings, the Soviets lose.
This could be ok... but the allies continue to dominate. First of all the Soviets are still spending too much time sending infantry. It should really stop after one wave. Then try to rhino rush. Not only do the Allies seem to get this. They send 1 Maybe 2 waves of infantry. Then go for Mirage and Prism tanks! They could use a debuff here where they attempt a grizzly attack first.
All i can say is, I'm churing out mirage tanks while the Soviets are still attempting Infantry. But when im the Soviets, the Allies are QUICKLY hitting me with Chrono Legionnaires, 8 planes and mirage/prism tanks. I may have 5 rhinos ready.
This is following a method for both teams of Power,Barracks, Ore Refinery, War Factory, 3 Ore Miners, 2nd Ore Factory.
I also swear i saw the AI rage quit once lol. Suddenly sold everything and quit.. They were definitely losing.
And my own opinions could change as i practice more. Im just very in tune to the Allies. I prefer them due to the mirage and prism tanks. They have always made more sense to me as being superior.
Edit: Basically i think what im going for is to make it more likely that grizzley tanks should be produced before tech up. I am completely skipping grizzley tanks because there is no early pressure from the soviets . And if the Allied AI could push out a grizzly rush fast, then Allied vs. Allied would be forced into producing grizzleys as well.
Now don't get me wrong. The harassment units work great. Really helps noobs learn how to defend their base. But once you've learned some of these lessons and you've got walls up. And dogs looking out for spies. Now the AI needs to bring good old-fashioned Firepower.
Since I let it be super intelligent, it always picks what it thinks are better teams, and I guess it somehow considers the Rhino team and even the Apoc team as weak? I'll try to increase their threat value to see if it changes. This change should be fine since they are Soviets.
I see if letting the prism start later affects the Allied defense. They are pretty weak at defending themselves early game.
Maybe ill try different tactics and see how they react. Im actually having great luck with the v3 launchers. I don't build seige choppers at all. Three v3's do well. But i was wishing i had 5. It's just a slower process than the amazing prism tanks.
I'm attempting to play a more Human vs. Human style by keeping base defense down and relying on units. The AI tends to have an advantage with this as it's geared for traditional base defense. But i consider it practice.
Im still really focused on Allied vs. Soviet so i cant say much about Yuri yet.
Sorry, can't make them build Rhino early, no matter what. The only option is to remove some Soviet teams, which we definitely do not want to do. Removing the weaker prism team will make the Allied weak at that specific window. In the end, our main goal is PVE or CoopVE, not AI vs AI.
Honestly, maybe the AI is just the sort of player that hate tank spam? Which I would consider to be pretty based. This may fix: play on a map with access to naval. The Soviets excel at naval combat. My recommendation is tournament map B.
It's cool that you see the V3 value.
Actually, how much infantry are you building in your game? The counter to the infantry is... well, conscript and flak troopers, so that may be why they focus so much on that.
Ha yes i came back to comment something like this. It occurred to me that, as i was saying, im skipping grizzley tanks as the allies. Plus I'm choosing America a lot and using paradrops as free base defense. I dont even need IFV.
But as the soviets i immediately need 2 flaks to deal with Chrono Legionnaires. THEN 3 ore miners and 5 rhinos.
So basically, yes, what you just said lol. Last game i was blasted with Mirage/Prism/Tank Destroyers. I was more prepared than previously. Probably 5 rhinos, 7 flaks, and a few teslas. But they wrecked me.
Yea i haven't moved on to naval yet. But ill be trying out Yuri soon.
Actually im testing this as i type this. The game is idle with just a con yard and the AI is completely dormant lol. Interesting.
Basically i see the error im making. The mass flaks is to deal mostly with planes. But the AI is preceiving all the land units and a threat. If i switch to stationary flak cannons and continue with rhinos and tesla, I would have won that fight.
Much better that round! Im trying more open maps. The AI can hit me from more sides. Understanding the AI responds to my actions helped. When i could turn the tide of having overwhelming numbers, i had it. Then v3's made him rage and attack my base with everything. I like this. They can get you if your not prepared.
One note, perhaps the chrono Legionnaires should not attempt to target war miners. Its suicide for them.
Well, if there were only one or two war miners, then you wouldn't be saying that. :)
For full-on naval battles, the best ones are those that are flat and don't have random small islands scattered around. My favorite ones are Oceanside, with all the bridges destroyed by Ivan or Seal, Risa, or Alaska Oil Spill, starting in position 2.
The funny thing is you can exploit the fact the AI only reacts to what you build and win without building anything. Something like this: Youtu.be
Although I modified the AI, I don't know if it still acts the same.
Right... if it was Allied vs. Allied i think i would be going crazy. And there are times they could catch a lone war miner too.
Interesting video. Now ill experiment with that lol.
The AI is using the GI's and Gaurdians extremely well. I feel i can never charge in with the conscripts and tesla troopers. And i never realized the GI's range is further than a bunker. Is this a change? Bunkers need to be supported against Allied infantry.
This brings up another point. Mirage tanks unsupported by prism tanks commit suicide against these bunkers.
Nope, GI has always been able to outrange most defense; only the towers can get them. GI and Bunker should have the same range, though.
Well, if the Mirages kill all of the targets outside of the base, then the only thing left for them to do is attack the base. 🤷♂️
Ah yes, my tanks were hiding behind the base. So they technically are targeting the tanks?
Wait, what was the infantry inside? The weapon range is based on the unit's weapon for the bunker. Only civilian buildings have a set range for all weapons.
I usually put 4 conscripts and 1 telsa in a bunker. The AI has the GI's do this weird thing where they are constantly deploying but they shoot once while standing, and repeat. I just may have never noticed that GIs range is further than the bunker. The vanilla AI usually just charges into them lol
I forgot to mention I've had some interesting results with the 2v2. It does seem random whether or not your teammate will function properly. It's usually not too bad because either way he will eventually get motivated. I don't know if this is just Placebo effect, but it seems like they won't work properly the first time you try a map but if you try the exact same one they seem to work after that.
But I'll say this. One game just as I got myself into gear to go attack the enemy I realized my teammate had practically destroyed both of them LOL so I'm probably going to have to step down to medium teammates if I want challenge.
The GI is barely out of range. Pistol range is 6, but non elite machine gun range is 5. So basically “I gotta deal some damage. Wait, I can only reach with my pistol, but I want to deal more damage, but I…”
It was rumored that the AI will change base on how its last match goes, so they will act better in re-match. This effect seems to go away after you switch map. This is only a speculation from the old days, however.
I honestly believe this after seeing the evidence. The only other thing, is it could be a bit of glitch that is being corrected after reloading the map. This could be the same reason the teammate performs better the next game. And it seems to continue. They will perform correctly untill you change the map.
Intital results against Yuri is he doesn't need much help. But i can see that you might want to do something since you tweaked the other factions a bit. But he's already good. Seems better than previous versions.
He seems more dormant in the beginning. Both Allies and Soviets send an initial infantry rush. He doesn't seem to do this. He starts with a few Yuri clones. But then, oh boy, hes coming. I tried not immediately going for rocketeers. (You mentioned that) Well within a few minutes i was frantically hitting the rocketeers que lol. I got him. But he put up a fight.
The difficulty in general is great. You can't just tank rush the enemy, even if you think you hace overwhelming numbers. They counter attack so well that each attack needs to be planned with multiple units.
Yeah, initiates sort of semi-bugging out, but at least not completely like the original siege chopper.
Anyway, I think I can actually stop updating for now. I have done everything I could; it seems like. The only thing left that I didn't add are the stolen tech attacks. Other than that, this is about it; at least if we were to keep it close to the original.
I may throw an opinion out once in awhile. But either way this is great fun.
I feel the telsa tanks may be a bit too powerful. They are much better than apocalypse tanks now. Yes, the apocalypse tanks have anti-air but on land there is no comparison. My suggestion would be lowering the attack power of the tesla tank. It's nice that the effect spreads, but it may spread too powerfully. The apocalypse tanks can't dish out this type of damage. And the main factor that puts the telsa tanks to S tier is their speed... They beat the apocalypse on this hands down.
Compare two squads of Tesla tanks and apocalypse tanks and see which one rips through the base fastest.
Now i don't know how their damage compares to telsa troopers. For the sake of continuity you wouldn't want them lower than the Troopers. But if it's currently higher than the trooper I would at least bring it down to that level.
Or... maybe lowering their speed.
I'm for upping its cost or moving it to Tier 3. But also possible to leave it alone as it is only available to the Russians.
Here are some new ideas I have come up with so far:
Allied: Make them build stolen tech units depending on who they are facing on hard difficulty only. If they fight the Allied, they build Commando. If they fight the Soviets, they build Chrono Ivan, etc.
Soviets
Crazy Ivan: Can swim.
MIG Fighter: A version of Mig without their bombs. Soviet lacked single target air defense, so this is my solution. For now, I don't plan on having these guys do any damage to the ground force.
Yuri:
Boomer moves to Tier 3 to add...
A boat with a Gatling gun. Fast and cheap. Planning to use small boat model for this.
Undecided fraction
Sitonai Transport: A plane that can transport infantry and tank. If given to the Soviets, the passenger slots will be 20, and it will be extremely slow but also durable. If given to Yuri, passenger slots will be 9, and it will be as durable as Nighthawk.
Mosquito assault aircraft: These guys are basically flying terrorists. Planning to use the APACHE model for this.
Giving Howitzer to someone.
Adding any of these guys would mean we would be officially stepping away from the vanilla game, though, and I am a bit hesitant to do so.
Upping the cost of telsa may be the solution. In early game we should be deciding between 2 rhinos or 1 telsa.
Some of my opinion comes from my dislike of apocalypse tanks. I think they are too expensive and take too long to build. A mass of rhinos tends to be the better choice.
Ok the MIG... are you considering something like the units in RA3? Jet units that stay on the map? Might be cool. These need to be expensive. The allies are the typical air superiority factions. If the soiviets can bring these to the battle they should be expensive and have weak health.
It's hard to say about making changes. I was initially looking for a vanilla experience myself... but soon realize that vanilla could use some tweaks. And you sort of open the floodgates tweaking the Tesla tanks LOL now you have to build a few balances around that.
Still haven't dove into naval battles but look forward to it. Im getting close to 1v2 level in land battles. No super weapons. My god i can't even imagine that yet lol
I don't think it that overpowers. I mean, look at my buff Tank Destroyer. You could make the same argument that it overshadows Mirage Tank over something. The Russian getting Tesla Tank seems fair from that point of view.
I mean, still pretty vanilla. More like vanilla plus. Only when I add a unit that it will screw the food chain up.
You're doing great. I can't believe i keep coming to chat here. But the thing is i keep PLAYING it everyday. This and Diablo 2 are my go to games these days... Apparently im stuck in the early 2000's. Well I never really stopped playing NES either lol
You're the only one who gives me feedback, so you're always welcome. It's sad that the best games nowadays are the old ones. I'm sitting here in 2023 playing PS2 and 2000s PC games. 😛
I guess I didn't realize tank destoyers got a buff. I was using America a lot. But ive been trying others because the free GI's are a bit OP against the computer. Well ok they needed it. Those things were awful.
This makes me look at the whole thing a bit different. Now i think its perfectly fine for each factions unique unit to be the "best choice"
What do i mean? Well those tanks destroyers probably are a bit better than mirage tanks. And that's fine. The Telsa tanks are better than apocalypse tanks. And thats also fine. It keeps the games more vaired on which factions are chosen.
Probably still wouldn't hurt to up the cost of the Tesla tanks though. Those things are amazing.
Sure. Also, I have decided to have two download buttons. One will be close to the vanilla experience (i.e., version 1.3). The other will be called Dragon AI Plus, where I freely change up how everything works. I'll start working on the next version after the next week. Kinda busy right now.
Oh that's fantastic. Exactly what all of your millions of fans want! 😜 Take your time man. If your really put out both versions... my ra2 experience will be complete. Thanks for everything!
You're not going to believe what I managed to accomplish. Check this new aircraft out! It will help the slow and sluggish Soviets a lot!
This is really awesome. Loving all the changes. Everything is going great. Still having a blast! I've improved significantly.
Other suggestions to consider...
Those tesla tanks. Man they are too awesome. Maybe tesla attacks from tanks and troopers should do less damage against structures?
Mental Omega lowers the damage to structures from GI's. Maybe this is something to consider. Im not sure how they handle teslas. I haven't spent much time with Mental Omega. Im enjoying the more vanilla type experience offered here. (With slight tweaks. You're doing well 👍)
Eh, i can't make my mind up with the teslas. I love them but keep telling you to nerf them. And we already discussed this. The tank destroyers have also been tweaked to damaged buildings. And it's fine.
Spent a lot of time with Yuri. This guy is tough! But its kinda the same story that it's not too hard against the allies (prism tanks). But I struggle using the Soviets against him. I didn't focus on Kirovs. Which Im going to say is the main recommend attack to against him. The v3 attack wasnt working out so well. Tesla tanks can hold back the Yuri infantry. But i have no idea how the other soviets deal with him.
I think spies for everyone is something to consider. The Allies literally have every advantage. The best units, AND the ability to upgrade them if they infiltrate with a spy.
I don't know why i thought the floating disk attack was no big deal before... this attack is wrecking me now. Well again its the soviets. Flak cannons are near useless. Once they cut the power it doesn't matter if you had 10 of them.
Okay, how about I boost the damage for just the flak cannon? How much would you recommend? Or, I can take away the inaccurate=yes. This makes it deal more damage than other air defenses, but that applies to all flak weapons.
Well i was exaggerating I didn't have 10 lol. But this lesson taught me they are near useless. The AI knows to target the power. My current opinion is to avoid them all together against Yuri. But that means the only anti-air defense you have is flak tracks. And you need a lot of them.
Im torn on this and would have to think. Generally I think the Flack tracks are powerful enough in most other situations. They do well enough against kirovs because the kirovs are so slow.
I would say i definitely lean towards a cannon boost only and no buff to flak units.
this mod is good , only need a touch in the ai naval . boomers yuri no attack def or structures how dreads or carriers, destroyers no attack appropriately to structures near them and harriers don't attack constantly.thanks for the mod and for the effort really, it's well designed after all, it just needs a few more touches
I don't think you gonna notice this since it is a guest account, but I will respond anyway, just in case. Naval AI has been quite a difficult spot for every modder. You can't set it to just attack any structure because it doesn't understand that for some reason, so the only option was to make it target specific structures. For this mod, I make them target mind control tower ->airdef->power->MCV->WF->barrack->loopback to start. But boomers are the only ship Yuri has, so they must be able to defend themselves. So I think you either attack it and break the script, or it detects a nearby enemy unit and goes into defensive mode. If you watch my naval test video near the end, you will see that they are working as normal. Destroyers are not meant to attack land bases, so that is by choice. Contrary to your beliefs, Harriers are absolutely being considered first every moment possible for AI. The AI just chooses not to.