So this happened on my facebook over the last few days. Ive removed the names so you dont harass him. I mean him no harm or ill will. But i wanted to post the whole thing in one block for people to look at.
This started when i posted this image
Neil reponded.... and this happened...
Neil - There not literally praying...... its just an expression. saying that your thinking of them. about the tragedy
David - So even less than nothing to actually help, thanks for clearing that up
Neil - Not mena help ?
Neil - It's ment to show that u care. that u r human. that u beleive it's wrong. that ur thoughts r with those who died. hardly a hard thing to understand
David - And they would still be worshipping a god who could have stopped it if it was real. THATs the point
Neil - No its not. praying is taking it literal. its just a saying. not just related to religions and worshiping
David - Yes. But how about sending money. Actually tangibly helping. Thats my point why is that so hard to understand?
Neil - It's not hard to understand. not everyone can help and support what's going on. due to what ever reason. but they can still show that they care. that's what it's about being fucking human and showing that u have a heart
Neil - and people do help, the number of people giving up blood (my self) donating money, helping rebuild. business supplying what ever they have to offer. so instead of moaning about religion that it's not real. that praying is pointless, have a heart. Some people depend on religion, it's how they get through life. something to beleive in. something worse than this shitty world (im not religious)
Neil - see I hate some atheists. ye u don't beleive in religons, but u don't have to shove science and disbelief down there throats. that's just as bad as those religions that try to convert u. to a lot of them praying might b the only awnser. helps them get on in life. trying to get help from a higher being. why is that so hard to understand? David just cus it doesn't mean much to u. don't mean it doesn't mean or do anything
David - 1) if there was a god, specifically the one they are worshipping, he did nothing to stop it. If he is all powerful he could have. Ignoring that point, like mosy do, is harmful.
2) Praying is talking to the sky. It us literally doing nothing but talking to yourself.
Why is that hard to understand.
Neil - i keep telling u, praying is not just related to bloody religions. why cant u just let people be ? u r worse than some religons forcing there beliefs on u. y have u got to force science and ur disbelief of god on them ? ur taking a tragic event and useing it to prove fucking god dosnt exist. when parts of certain religious texts go on about there god not intervening. for certain reasons.
Neil - u keep comming back to the same fact that u dont think god exists. fine. Gd for u. I dont beleive it anyway. But when a tradegy like this has happened. and all you want to do is try to tell people that god doesnt exist ? u choose this time to try and destroy there faith ? thats just disgusting. and u still never answered my question.
David - Praying, by definition, is religious in nature. You can keep spinning the definition all you want but its by definition talking to a higher being.
Because I looged in, and all I seen on my wall was "pray for..." "jesus save...." "god helps....."
And yet there is zero evidence to substantiate that claim. So if someone seea a ufo, bigfiot, etc, I will want ti see evidence. This is no different. Asking someone to prove it is not forcing it on them.
They take a tragic event and are ay ok, I call them on their hypocrisy and im the bad guy...
Secondly. Take the bible. There are whole sections where god intervenes, telling noah about the flood for instance. And yet no a fking whisper about this in advance... I can go on about the Bible if u want. There are dozens and dozens of examples in that book alone.
Neil - so first off..... there is more to praying than a definition. If u want to be ignorant to that then fine ? who cares about the claim, there is no prove that hes real or not ? you have no claim to say gods arnt real. Of course you are going to see a lot of that on the internet, religions r popular and this is how people deal with tragedy's like these. NOTHING wrong with it. This pic is not asking for proof ? it is literally saying WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, WHY WONT HE HELP YOU. making them question there religion. hypocrisy ? there following there religons and calling out to there gods ? and YOU r using this tradegy to promote the fact that there god either does not exist or has abandoned them ? YES YOU ARE THE BAD GUY in comparison. ye there are loads of examples, there are also loads when he dosnt get involved ? again i can go on about the bible if you want like emoticon really not that hard. BUT WHEN PEOPLE ARE MOARNING, and calling out to there god, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO GO ON ABOUT THERE GOD NOT EXISTING
Neil - just because u dont understand religon, support it, or beleive in it. dosnt give you any right to use a tragedy to promote athiests. that he dosnt exist. im not religios, i still pray that my children (if i ever have) will grow up in a safe world, free to beleive what they want. dont need to be religos to pray.
Neil - i may not believe in religions, but atleast i respect and understand the need for them
David - Im at work and I cant explain things as well from my phone. But as soon as I get home... youll know
David - Hey
So im home from work so this will be a line by line response to everything u have said, lets begin...
“so first off..... there is more to praying than a definition. If u want to be ignorant to that then fine ?”
Um, thats not a question, I dont know why you ended it with a ?...
That said, definitions are important and used for a reason. And if you think prayign is more than its definition than define it in the context you think it belong in. You know what, ill look it up,
noun: prayer; plural noun: prayers
-a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or another deity.
"I'll say a prayer for him"
- a religious service, especially a regular one, at which people gather in order to pray together.
"500 people were detained as they attended Friday prayers"
-an earnest hope or wish.
"it is our prayer that the current progress on human rights will be sustained"
Since the sentiment is “Ill pray for you”, the closest contest is the first is most accurate, relative to use. So therefore it is religious in nature.
“who cares about the claim, there is no prove that hes real or not ?”
Well its fairly important claim, considering what people do in the name of their god
“you have no claim to say gods arnt real.”
I would never say there is no god, what I say is that there is insufficient evidence to support the hypothosis that a god exists. If new evidence arives, then I will assess it and decide then.
“Of course you are going to see a lot of that on the internet, religions r popular and this is how people deal with tragedy's like these. NOTHING wrong with it.”
Please dont yell, and it is, by definition, shoving it down my throat. Yes, they have the right to post what ever they want, but so do I.
“This pic is not asking for proof ? it is literally saying WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, WHY WONT HE HELP YOU. making them question there religion.”
Yes. Its putting a big circle around all the prayer posts. Asking, if your god is listening, why is he doing nothing.
“hypocrisy ? there following there religons and calling out to there gods ?”
No, the hypocrisy is them being allowed to say or post what ever they want, and you saying im not.
“and YOU r using this tradegy to promote the fact that there god either does not exist or has abandoned them ?”
They are using this tragedy to promote their god. How is this any different?
“YES YOU ARE THE BAD GUY in comparison.”
Really. You honestly think that. In this situation there is only one bad person. The person who commit these horrible acts. In this scenario there are religious people thinking they are helping by posting all over facebook, which does nothing. I shared posted with emergency contact details far and wide, I contacted my friends in the area and asked if they needed help and what I could do to help them. I even donated some money to a local charity thats going over there to help the victims.
“ye there are loads of examples, there are also loads when he dosnt get involved ?”
Again, not a question. But I will still respond. Assuming god is real, and hes the one in the bible, since thats the most likely one to be referenced in the regions the posts are coming from.
In a murder case, someone can be put on trial for knowing about the crime and doing nothing to stop it. God is meant to know all, he is meant to be all powerful, he is meant to be all loving, and yet if he was real and possessed those properties this never would have happened. You or me with the ability to stop this would have in a second, and yet he sat back and did nothing. THAT is my point. That is the point of this post. Why are you begging a god who could have stopped it to help those after? Wouldnt he know already. Does he wait for an amount of likes before he heals someone? Thats my point. That is the point of this post.
“again i can go on about the bible if you want, really not that hard.”
“BUT WHEN PEOPLE ARE MOARNING, and calling out to there god, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO GO ON ABOUT THERE GOD NOT EXISTING”
Actually, yes I do. I have a right to make them question it. I have a right to call them on their hypocrisy. They have every right to post what ever they want, and so do I. Its that simple. You want to get all authoritarian on me, go right ahead, ill call you on your hypocrisy as well...
“just because u dont understand religon, support it, or beleive in it.”
I do understand religion, more than you probably. I understand the psychological side of it, the ways that it spreads, the effects it has on the mind. I understand the support mechanism its meant to have, and yet in tests its shown secular support systems work far and beyond the religious equivalent. Perfect example is Alcoholics anonymous, works no better than going cold turkey. But the secular groups have a success rate almost 15x higher than that.
Yes is do not support it, and I do not believe it, but dont go around assuming I dont understand it.
“dosnt give you any right to use a tragedy to promote athiests. that he dosnt exist.”
What gives them the right to use it to promote their religion? You cant have it both ways you know. That is where the hypocrisy comes into it.
“im not religios, i still pray that my children (if i ever have) will grow up in a safe world, free to beleive what they want. dont need to be religos to pray.”
Who are you praying to? Because I dont think you understand the definition of the words you use.
“i may not believe in religions, but atleast i respect and understand the need for them”
Thats the thing, there was a need for them. In the past, they were good at bringing people together, and were probably the reason we even have society to begin with. But the time of their usefulness is long gone. Religion is not needed anymore. If there was no religion, imagine the things that wouldnt have happened in its name, from the genocides in africa, to the destruction that happens around the world, not just in paris, but globally. There is no need for it for the most part, its out dated. Its actively tries to hold us back, and is used by people to manipulate others. Look at the televangilists, they rort millions of dollars out of people who are desperate. Look at how its undermines science and education in every way it can. Dont just focus on the good, look at the whole picture. Thats what people need to start doing, in order for us to not become stagnant, and eventually extinct. Religion is a wolf in sheeps clothing, and people really need to wake up to that point
Neil - wana b a grammer nazi and rip my stuff a part then find. i really dont give to shits. In this post. YES u r the bad guy. WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY U WERE THE ONLY 1. stop being so simple minded. right now when people depend on the religion, is not the time to make them question it. im not here saying there is or isnt a god. anything u say, i can counter, cus u have just as little proof to there existance. again not why im here. YOU R USEING THIS TRAGEDY TO PROMOTE ATHIESTS. TO PROMOTE THAT GOD DOSNET EXIST. and that is just fucking wrong, thats disgusting
Neil - no religons is and will always be needed. Its something to believe in, to a lot of people, its all they have. To more people, religon is what keeps them to the line. To some its the only thing keeping the alive. to more people, religon is hope and faith in something bigger than this shitty world. that is why there will always be a need for it. and there is nothing wrong with it. wana rip arart what i say then fine. but useing this tragedy to post pictures like this ? WHAT SORT OF VILE CREATURE YOU MUST BE. cus when people depend on there religon the most is not the time to make them question it. HAVE A FUCKING HEART
David - Line by line again...
“wana b a grammer nazi and rip my stuff a part then find. i really dont give to shits. In this post. YES u r the bad guy. WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY U WERE THE ONLY 1.”
You can keep saying that I am the bad guy all you want, but you need to show evidence, and you are yet to do that. So far I have stayed calm, and you have resorted to yelling, and name calling.
“stop being so simple minded. right now when people depend on the religion, is not the time to make them question it.”
In what way am I being simple minded? I explained the reason religion is around and why its no longer needed. I will repeat, its scenarios like that that need to be highlighted, so that people can understand the negative side to religion.
“im not here saying there is or isnt a god. anything u say, i can counter, cus u have just as little proof to there existance. “
I will repeat myself again. I never said there was no god. I said there is insufficient evidence to assume there is one. I will explain it a little differently this time. God is on trial. The case is being made that he is real. I am looking at the evidence and saying that he is not guilty of being real. I am not saying he is innocent of being real. There is a difference. Until there is evidence to support the claim, I will keep denying it.
“again not why im here. YOU R USEING THIS TRAGEDY TO PROMOTE ATHIESTS. TO PROMOTE THAT GOD DOSNET EXIST. and that is just fucking wrong, thats disgusting”
Again, as I have explained before, I am not making the case for there being no god. The case I am making is if there was a god, assuming his existence like they do, and assuming the properties they claim he has then he would have prevented it. Again, if he is all knowing, then he would know it was going to happen. If he is all powerful he can stop is, and if hes all loving then he would want to stop it. If I knew about the attacks in advance, I would have done everything in my power to prevent them, as I am sure you, and most other people would have. But instead he was silent and did nothing. That makes him an accomplice at best. That is my point. And I dont know why that is so hard to understand.
“no religons is and will always be needed.”
No it isnt. Religion is something a lot of countries that are not the USA do without quiet well, and prosper at far better rates than the USA.
“Its something to believe in, to a lot of people, its all they have.”
And without it they can actually focus on evidence based reality and improving the world for everyone. There is a lot of people who are taken advantage of because of their religion. Either by preiets, or politicians, or any number of other things like that. You can just claim its all good, because it isnt.
“To more people, religon is what keeps them to the line.”
I will agree with that, but I will also say, those people scare me and should be in prison. If the only thing stopping them raping and pillaging is a voice in their head, then they dont deserve to be free.
“To some its the only thing keeping the alive.”
In what way? I understand the psychological effects it can have. But the evidence shows, the more you are in touch with reality, the happeir and longer, you live.
“to more people, religon is hope and faith in something bigger than this shitty world.”
Yes and without that, atheist groups world wide help to make this world better, because we want to be happy now and not in some imaginary afterlife.
“that is why there will always be a need for it. and there is nothing wrong with it.”
There is a LOT wrong with it. From undermining education, healthcare, taking advantage of the elderly and the poor. To terroristic activities, The list goes on and on for the crimes commited in the name of religion. You can ignore that all you want but reality is still reality, and it will bite you on the ass one day.
“wana rip arart what i say then fine. but useing this tragedy to post pictures like this ? WHAT SORT OF VILE CREATURE YOU MUST BE.”
So, you cant argue your position so you resort to ad homonym attacks instead. The funny part is, I know why your doing it. This post challenges something deep down inside you. Something you cant conciosuly accept. And as a result it makes you feel like you are under attack and need to defend your self. Well I am not attacking you, I am attacking the idea, the concept of religion.
“cus when people depend on there religon the most is not the time to make them question it. HAVE A FUCKING HEART”
You really need to do some research. This is the time they need to question it. Thats like saying after a mass shooting we dont need to look at gun laws, its to early. Questioning in times of doubt, like now is the perfect time to look back and see the causes and effects.
You can insult me all you want, but I can demonstrate everything Ive said. I can link you to the studies, and statistics. I will if you want. Until then I hold no malice towards you, only religion. Because it has got away with so much, for so long, someone needs to shine a light on it. And moments like this are the best times.
Neil - No this was never about arguing. that is what it always has been. u using this tragedy to promote atheists. when people depend on religion u chose to rip it apart with that picture. which is wrong. which is what I have always been saying. end of. learn to live with it. I'm done with ur crap about proving religons r pointless. I'm not even religons yes I understand the reason for needing them. This is over. I have said what needs to b said. gd bye hope I never have the misfortune of seeing crap like this from u again
David - ok...
"No this was never about arguing. that is what it always has been. u using this tragedy to promote atheists."
Ok, so when someone says we will pray for you, thats not promoting their religion? But when someone challenges it they are promoting the opposite... seems legit
"when people depend on religion u chose to rip it apart with that picture. which is wrong. which is what I have always been saying. end of."
I rip it apart regardless of when it is. If they have a right to flood my wall with religous stuff, i have a right to challenge it. Anything else is blatent hypocrisy.
"learn to live with it. I'm done with ur crap about proving religons r pointless."
What part of the bad side to religions that ive pointed out is "pointless"? There is a lot of negative stuff you want to ignore. But i will keep highlighting it, twice as often now.
"I'm not even religons yes I understand the reason for needing them."
Yeh, no. Religion caused this tragedy, religion is not the answer. Its like saying the cure to drunk driving is more beer...
"This is over. I have said what needs to b said. gd bye hope I never have the misfortune of seeing crap like this from u again"
Sure, what ever. I promise i will post twice as much from now on
David – And he blocked me...