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I'm almost feeling confident enough as to release something.
My theme for the first "trial" as a mapper for Zircon is Ancient Mesopotamia (babylon). I was thinking on going Aztec... Because... (Quake Original Scrapped Episode?)
But I'm fascinated with other ancient cultures as well, a lot of them have a colorful history and folclore that can go well mixed with R'lyehian deities... So... Why not try to explore some of that?
So far, is a map enclosed by mountains with lush vegetation (speedtree).
I've made a few buggy experiments here, as to make a compatibility mod for SOURCE. It's feasible!
The Materials are going well, using modern materials before tackling trying to use Rygels, that are textures made for old geometry with higher resolution, so, there is an "game style" issue there?
I'm using Source 2007 (HL2:EP2) as a guideline for "graphical quality" that i'm trying to achieve, ok?
And... so far... The water seam... I have a scratch of a island map that is for multiplayer use, with that battle royale thingy in mind, that i'll revisit and finish later... ;)
Terrain, nothing new, I'm doing the same as sock. xP
(There is a procedural generator that i'm using, but for the island, since my little scratch map is based on a real location...)
(I'll have to find a way to quickly share videos and screenshots here.)
I'm trying to avoid releasing multiple versions of things, and mostly, trying to avoid releasing unfinished things, since I'm mostly doing assets...
=)
Keep up the updates, things are looking awesome...
Later i'll have to finish some design things i've started for Zircon... Now i'm starting to better organize my time, so, my mapping effort and games involvement as a whole surely will have its "timeslot". =)
(complementing something i've forgot: Bounding "ramps" + socks tutorial terrain blending technique, applied in the water/_skybox in the right way, can produce a nice and smooth transition.)
I replied to your message in my profile, by the way.
In the event you didn't see it -- and it is easy to miss replies here -- I post that here too ... if you are interested in using features in single player maps, that would be great. Especially if you are familiar with Q3 map format. I could help you do a number of awesome things not possible with stock Q1.
What map editors are you familiar with? Is Trenchbroom one of them?
I think someone making single player maps using some of the features available would be great. That would be very helpful, especially if it were to break in Quake 3 map format for a map editor like Trenchbroom.
What map editors are you familiar with? I think it is very helpful you are familiar with Xonotic, it uses quite a few features that Quake 1 never gets to see.
Are you interesting in learning/using TrenchBroom?
I will not be supporting NetRadiant. It has a list of issues 10 miles long. The failures of NetRadiant is why TrenchBroom, a beloved editor, exists.
TrenchBroom is an easy to use editor and is the future. The Quake3_Quake1 project is to break-in and develop Trenchbroom.
Warpzones will be added to Quake3_Quake1 either in September or October depend on how Zircon coding goes. So those will be available.
If you are interesting in mapping in Trenchbroom, I will get out a kit for it by Saturday. And I'll do a tutorial article for Trenchbroom, making a waterfall and one on making triggers to change the gravity.
The goal for Quake3_Quake1 and Zircon is making a brighter, easier more creative future for Quake that looks awesome and makes DarkPlaces features available for easy use like warpzones. Trenchbroom will be the supported editor (and to a lesser extent, J.A.C.K.)
I would recommend making a Quake 1 map for starters to get familiarity for mapping with Quake and getting a feel for Trenchbroom. And getting a feel for the process.
/That's just my opinion. What you do is your choice.
Web.archive.org (archive.org does not seem to have the download)
Other option is ask at quaddicted.com, there are some DarkPlaces users that hang out there some with strong interest in model replacements. Or look in epsilon and see if it has what you need.
Don't hesistate to tell me how things are going, I get burnt out on a regular basis and I'm always happy to share what I know/help.
Right now, I'm making a run at getting DarkPlaces to compile on Android. A past project of mine was: Quakeone.com
The Android stuff is super-annoying, I often get in a mood where I want to address the worst and hardest item on a todo list so I'm trying to handle that one.
Usually out of habit I do something very hard before doing things that are very detail oriented but not hard (like the remaster stuff).
I saw "Monolith", are you a recent or even current game developer?
First i'll organize and create all the assets that I'm thinking in using for my maps.
So far, I did a few textures, mostly preparing for use with glowmaps and normals.
I've collected a lot of research material for the setting of the first map I intend to do, but I already have many doubts on how to start.
Mainly, this are my main questions:
- What is the best way to achieve a "island" effect, with skybox and ocean matching, with good visuals? I don't know exactly how SUN works here, would need some help.
- What are my limitations with moving brushes, and what kind of interactivity I can use with level geometry?
- I have to gametest the gravity concept I have in mind, but the idea is to "make something stranger" as close as you gets... Imagine going into HELL, the more you enter it, the more something changes? (this kind of brush controlling cvar could be useful not only for gravity, but also for other things.)
- Maybe I'll play with the trippy and lsd shaders from xonotic for some usage.
- All the not-so-basic stuff... SOCK website is offline, there was a guide there on how to do some things nicely with shaders that I didn't find anywhere else... So, there is some form of multitexturing fade in some ready to go form for use with texture seams and transitions?
I want to do a forest, in a valley, with a river and a complex cave system, with the main cave entrance being guarded by, or a military base or a grotto. Most likely a grotto.
After learning those things, i'll try some engine testing, proof-of-concept testing of waterfall, gravity triggers, and all the new features of the engine.
At the end of the testing, i'll start mapping using ALL THE FEATURES that the engine has to offer and maybe, without quake in mind. This could be a new game.
probably a skybox entity model (a group of entities) .. Xonotic maps techassault and city new york are examples. I have not had the opportuntity to play around with that kind of thing yet. I was going to write a "lab report on that". I have not had the time to do experiments on that.
In citynewyork, the large background buildings are skybox entities. Some games that used q3 map, hills would be skybox entities. It is said you can do this with water if you are clever.
techassault is part of xonotic main, .map source comes with it
It is nice you have such a broad set of talents.
I'm trying to figure out how I want to clear out the very immediate stuff in the engine todo list. Then do the Trenchbroom kit and write a couple of tutorials.
I also need to keep hitting the Android build and get that to at least build and hopefully run. I simply want it available.
(Do you happen to have an Android device?)
"What are my limitations with moving brushes, and what kind of interactivity I can use with level geometry?"
brushes that move in Quake are generally func_plat, func_train, func_door. Quake3_Quake1 has rotation (rotating stuff including doors). More is possible like:
But wouldn't it be better if we had a Forum, Discord server, WhatsApp group or anything else to get people engaged on the project?
As I said earlier, I have one server underutilized, with enough RAM and storage to get a complete set of Forum, Website, Wiki and Chat running, and for me, I could install and get those done in a blink of an eye. I just don't have a free domain, but I could use a subdomain of some of my domains.
ALSO...
I'm using Zircon 36 + Darkplaces Classic with all the rerelease content on my work folder... But... Those graphic assets are nice, but theres a lot of room for improvement there...
So far, researching the best way to do beaches with animated water and foam.
TrenchBroom doesn't seem to have the right tools to deal with splines and terrain, so, can I map using the Custom NetRadiant from Ingar?
"But wouldn't it be better if we had a Forum, Discord server, WhatsApp group or anything else to get people engaged on the project?"
You can do that if you like, but I just wish to code and that is how I want to spend my time. I am very good at actually completing "way too complicated" projects ;)
I personally do not wish to spent time on discord and such, I want to code.
This project could use a couple of very social people on it. That cannot be my role or how I spend my time.
(I did use to be super-social, I was a co-founder of QuakeOne. As my coding abilities increased, my desire to use them increased. And I have kind of evolved to just be "all action through coding" and chat way less, haha)
> netradiant ...
Trenchbroom and J.A.C.K. use .fgd files. netradiant uses .def.
I don't have the extra 30 hours to make .def files. If you'd like to do that fine.
Also, I do not wish to use any Radiant ... at all.
You can use Radiant, but you would need to make the .def files for it and commit to testing them and maintaining them.
If you want to do those, yes sure use netRadiant but I have never found one that works acceptably on my main computer.
So you would need to make the .def files from the .fgd files yourself.
Likewise, I'm not willing to document for netRadiant either.
I am not willing to throw 120 hours of time to supporting a crappily designed editor. My time is my only resource for coding.
So if you want to use netRadiant that is fine, but you would need to commit to also supporting it yourself.
"But... Those graphic assets are nice, but theres a lot of room for improvement there..."
Definitely. I'm just 1 guy.
"So far, researching the best way to do beaches with animated water and foam."
In my head, I build things functional first. Later, I strive for perfect.
Foam, for instance, no idea at this time.
Anyway, I am doing the Quake3_Quake1 stuff today and tomorrow (2 tutorials also, waterfall one, gravity triggers) and tomorrow after I get out a mostly reorg engine update today.
If you want to do the netradiant path (which means supporting it and making .def files) here is the not finalized .fgd (it is wip, not cleaned up).
So far I'm working only on gameplay flow, but as of an editor...
Using Trenchbroom, trying different gameplay paths...
I already have some tricks up my sleeve for foam and a few other complex visual things... Darkplaces was already a good engine to begin with! =D
I have to read some of the code, mostly regarding audio code, for "interactive soundtracks" usage.
I'm already good on making terrain seams and transitions, using the methods from Sock.
The Water/Skybox/Sun combo still is something I'll see later... So far, just focusing on exploration and flow, with no bestiary, no weapons in mind so far.
I need to stop making ceiling fans with lighting. hehehehe
I'll look into the social aspects of the things... The mapping community, for quake, as a whole, seems too much "fragmented", if it makes sense...
" The mapping community, for quake, as a whole, seems too much "fragmented", if it makes sense... "
Your insight is impressive. Yes, that is very true.
Most of the creative types used DarkPlaces, the rest used conservative engines.
DarkPlaces always had compat and stability issues. Then LadyHavoc left for good for the tech industry, DarkPlaces drifted towards a xonotic first engine.
With no real support left, the DarkPlaces people mostly faded away in time.
With most of creative people gone that desired sophisticated features to support scenery and such, Quake mapping is on the fast track to the cemetary, making visually unappealing works (they may look good for Quake and they do, but it requires the "for Quake" qualifier) that kids today that have played Minecraft or Roblox would not have an interest in playing.
I had the thought that maybe I could revamp DarkPlaces with Trenchbroom as the main mapping focus and expose/extend DarkPlaces features to perhaps complete the goal of DarkPlaces.
To create a "future Quake" that is easy to use like Quake, but with way more features for mapping.
"I need to stop making ceiling fans with lighting. hehehehe"
I grew up having a 486 DX2 that didn't ran quake very well, playing only build-based FPS's at my early days (as a kid!)...
Mapped a lot for DN3D... But when I saw Quake... WOOOOOOOOAAA...
ITS ******* EVIL!
The art style, lovecraftian themed, fantasy with tech, and a soundtrack by nine inch nails?
SO, yes, I do want to have this feel back for newcomers...
Do you remember the project "Shambler's Castle", by Obwando, heXum, Quaker-X and others?
I can't seem to find those assets... That project was awesome... QuakeRemix...
I remember they even had finished the new Start map!
And where are the legends from the Quake Community? Tabun, Sock, Necros, Lunaran, Ruohis, Capnbubs?
I'm collecting the best assets the community has to offer, I already have a working texture set for materials, I remember the xonotic documentation being ****** on darkplaces-specific stuff related to materials (shaders)...
This video from 3kliksphilip illustrates quite well some issues that I'm trying to solve on Zircon with water seams and transitions...
Using J.A.C.K. as of now, this thing is the closest I have to WorldEdit or Hammer++.
My idea of parallel dimension using warpzones is just to make the quake story side of the thing feel even more quakey, if it makes sense. =P
After all, its all portals or teleporters, everything always have to do with portals and teleporters... But... WE HAVE WARPZONES NOW! =P
I still have a dream, of one day, we having a centered quake community with online resource sharing and usage... Think like some sort of "OpenEMU.org"... But instead of choosing wich platform... You'll choose wich base-game. =P (And there is potential here also for revenue!)
I'm using the sock terrain technique, still not using meshes for terrain, at least using splines quite well, but what about phong shading? how can I tweak and control this kind of thing? GLSL exposes everything to me there? Would like a lot to port some shading from F.e.a.r. 2 to Darkplaces.
Mostly I'm doing scenery brushwork now, since I want some nice things about "my island". hehehe
Kids today care a lot about "things moving in a kinectic way" on the screen, so, I didn't saw any skeletal based ragdoll physics on a quake 1 engine game yet.
And other thing... We need something to make quake feel a little bit more... EMPOWERING.
The enemies already go after you like they only breath for the solely purpose of killing you... I was thinking, at least for this openended map, in taking a look in the "In The Shadows" mod codebase from sock... He is unreacheable, but if I credit him, can I fork the logic?
Also, I've saw a few id Tech 3 games with AWESOME animations... How we are on this standpoint on Zircon?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5l2xr5BBq8, man, these animations... Makes me remember an old mod for quake, third person with classes... Imagine that, with skeletal animations and a good combat design?)
I'm cooking up something to make managing a community around game content more engaging for everyone involved, players, mappers, modders and programmers.
(this is in my language, portuguese, but is one of my dreams, involving quake. Media.discordapp.net )
I'm meditating a bit trying to recover from burnout. I thought I would share some concepts of mine.
These are my thoughts, they are not necessarily right (I am made out of human and can make mistakes and be wrong, etc.)
1) Due to moddb, this project can "win" through gravity alone. All that is required is coding, producing quality map demonstrations and documentation. Everything else will naturally fall into place.
This is because moddb is a meritocracy where exotic and entertaining works can easily get attention.
2) So .. as time passes this project will naturally attract talented future thinking creative people.
What is the opposite of that?
Recruiting from the Quake community is the opposite.
Most of the existing Quake community is not ready to be unplugged from the matrix.
Trying to create a futuristic Quake and trying to recruit from a pool that does not understand the concept is a paradox.
There are tons of people out there, let the likeminded ones come of their own free will and interests.
3) Evolution.
There is a big list of things that need addressed in DarkPlaces. They cannot be done at once, so I take my yards when i can get them (American football analogy). And I repeat that.
I never get all that I want, but after several times I get closer to the goal.
Only you know how best to achieve what you wish to do, what works for me does not necessarily work for others.
Xonotic has skeletal stuff [99% sure] (I have never used it, it is likely complex).
What you might consider focusing on, is how to complete a version 1 (or 0.1 or whatever numbering system you like). And then release that. Then later do an update to version 2, etc.
The one for sure thing is that there are a tons of things that can be done.
But what really makes an impact is reducing a set of ideas down to something concrete in a map release, and then people getting to playing it. Even Arcane Dimensions, it is 1.80 version. They had old versions, hehe.
Anyway, back to Quake3_Quake1 Trenchbroom/J.A.C.K stuff. Yes, J.A.C.K is very hammer like. Too bad closed source. My first map editor was Worldcraft and I am very wired for the Hammer way of doing things.
I'll do a 3rd small tutorial in addition to the waterfall/gravity, it'll be how to add trees/shrubs to a map from Quake3_Quake1.
The image for the current download is ons_reborn from nexuiz, which I retextured and repopulated with monsters (it looks a bit meh, but I had wanted to play with concept and feel. The concept works, just needs a nicer looking textures) and some shrubs from opengame art.
nexuiz had a lot of vegation, xonotic does not really use any of it.
When used correctly, some of it can look quite nice.
> And where are the legends from the Quake Community? Tabun, Sock, Necros, Lunaran, Ruohis, Capnbubs?
Sock is around. I think Lunaran is around. Others not so sure.
Don't know how to contact.
> phong shading?
my experience with Q3 mapping is limited, I am still learning the advanced topics and I have not had time to play much with that. I would ask at Lvlworld.com , those guys are friendly.
> Then we do have the same goals in mind.
It seems we do, very much so.
I am going to work on the Quake3_Quake1 thing for Trenchbroom until I complete it today.
I'm almost feeling confident enough as to release something.
My theme for the first "trial" as a mapper for Zircon is Ancient Mesopotamia (babylon). I was thinking on going Aztec... Because... (Quake Original Scrapped Episode?)
But I'm fascinated with other ancient cultures as well, a lot of them have a colorful history and folclore that can go well mixed with R'lyehian deities... So... Why not try to explore some of that?
So far, is a map enclosed by mountains with lush vegetation (speedtree).
I've made a few buggy experiments here, as to make a compatibility mod for SOURCE. It's feasible!
The Materials are going well, using modern materials before tackling trying to use Rygels, that are textures made for old geometry with higher resolution, so, there is an "game style" issue there?
I'm using Source 2007 (HL2:EP2) as a guideline for "graphical quality" that i'm trying to achieve, ok?
And... so far... The water seam... I have a scratch of a island map that is for multiplayer use, with that battle royale thingy in mind, that i'll revisit and finish later... ;)
Terrain, nothing new, I'm doing the same as sock. xP
(There is a procedural generator that i'm using, but for the island, since my little scratch map is based on a real location...)
(I'll have to find a way to quickly share videos and screenshots here.)
I'm trying to avoid releasing multiple versions of things, and mostly, trying to avoid releasing unfinished things, since I'm mostly doing assets...
=)
Keep up the updates, things are looking awesome...
Later i'll have to finish some design things i've started for Zircon... Now i'm starting to better organize my time, so, my mapping effort and games involvement as a whole surely will have its "timeslot". =)
I hope things are going well for you.
Sounds great, yes I admit I look at newer engines for how I want things to look, haha.
The latest version of Zircon is a significant upgrade in a few ways, there was a ton to test/tweak/verify to get everything right.
>I'm trying to avoid releasing multiple versions of thing
As you like, I think more complex development usually involves version 1, version 2, etc.
So I employ a grindy "get done what you can, if you can do it well" approach to everything.
"Now i'm starting to better organize my time, so, my mapping effort and games involvement as a whole surely will have its "timeslot". =) "
I figured it might take some time to get settled.
"tutorial terrain blending technique, applied in the water/_skybox in the right way, can produce a nice and smooth transition."
Sounds nice. Thanks for update.
"I'll have to find a way to quickly share videos and screenshots here."
You could upload to Youtube or link images from, say, Google Drive or dropbox.
(complementing something i've forgot: Bounding "ramps" + socks tutorial terrain blending technique, applied in the water/_skybox in the right way, can produce a nice and smooth transition.)
Don't know how to PM...
Anything I can help in the project? =)
As I have been going thru checklists for Quake3 map kit,
I used SDL Win build. It crashes during load game and for some reason the autocomplete is not quite the same.
Engine mysteries.
These are unlikely to have been my error, I suspect they are preexisting DarkPlaces bug applying the SDL2 build for windows.
I spent some time doing a news article, much of it on things we have discussed lately to provide more detail.
Still working on getting the map kit out ...
Trying my best ... there are lots of boxes to check and if I screw it up, that would be bad.
I replied to your message in my profile, by the way.
In the event you didn't see it -- and it is easy to miss replies here -- I post that here too ... if you are interested in using features in single player maps, that would be great. Especially if you are familiar with Q3 map format. I could help you do a number of awesome things not possible with stock Q1.
What map editors are you familiar with? Is Trenchbroom one of them?
Click this:
inbox: Moddb.com
I think someone making single player maps using some of the features available would be great. That would be very helpful, especially if it were to break in Quake 3 map format for a map editor like Trenchbroom.
What map editors are you familiar with? I think it is very helpful you are familiar with Xonotic, it uses quite a few features that Quake 1 never gets to see.
I've helped to write a few in my Monolith days...
For Quake, i've used on the old gold days something dos based that I don't remember...
I've already mapped with NetRadiant, and I think could be the best for this combination... But... How does trenchbroom deals with splines?
I want to create something really architetonic, really out there...
Isn't better to centralize all the documentation in a media wiki instance? I have servers and know-how for that, just short of a nice domain to use.
I guess the feature set of the BSP46v2 in use is the same as Xonotic, with the listed improvements and additions... So...
What do we have regarding waterfalls?
And is possible to set gravity gradually in a level... for less gravity in a brushed zone with the right flag?
Also, how to mess around with the "direction" of gravity?
Warpzones from Xonotic I think will be extremely useful...
Are you interesting in learning/using TrenchBroom?
I will not be supporting NetRadiant. It has a list of issues 10 miles long. The failures of NetRadiant is why TrenchBroom, a beloved editor, exists.
TrenchBroom is an easy to use editor and is the future. The Quake3_Quake1 project is to break-in and develop Trenchbroom.
Warpzones will be added to Quake3_Quake1 either in September or October depend on how Zircon coding goes. So those will be available.
If you are interesting in mapping in Trenchbroom, I will get out a kit for it by Saturday. And I'll do a tutorial article for Trenchbroom, making a waterfall and one on making triggers to change the gravity.
The goal for Quake3_Quake1 and Zircon is making a brighter, easier more creative future for Quake that looks awesome and makes DarkPlaces features available for easy use like warpzones. Trenchbroom will be the supported editor (and to a lesser extent, J.A.C.K.)
Waterfalls go like this: Moddb.com
The Xonotic map Solarium is where the waterfall pic is from.
Wow, that would be nice, I'll start drawing the basic level geometry then. =)
I've heard that one of my favorite maps was made on Trenchbroom... =)
(ne_ruins)
You've seen dumptruck_ds videos on Trenchbroom.
I would recommend making a Quake 1 map for starters to get familiarity for mapping with Quake and getting a feel for Trenchbroom. And getting a feel for the process.
/That's just my opinion. What you do is your choice.
Ok ... I'm back to coding, so much to do ... ha.
I already know the basics. =)
Cool.
Ok, made a lot of assets here, Will tryi to achieve that concept...
Where can I find rygel originals?
Icculus.org
That page
Rygel's 2.7GB ultra pack
If you aren't familiar with Quake Epsilon or Quake 1.5 you might check those out if you are looking for models that match a theme.
quake-15: Moddb.com
epsilon: Moddb.com
This isn't the original rygel pack. There are assets missing...
I'm already using the textures from this file.
In 2011 I remember that I had a bigger version, with double the texture, and with all the maps (normal, glow...)
archive.org might help?
2011 version:
Web.archive.org (archive.org does not seem to have the download)
Other option is ask at quaddicted.com, there are some DarkPlaces users that hang out there some with strong interest in model replacements. Or look in epsilon and see if it has what you need.
I'm asking everywhere...
But as of now, using some textures from some 11Gb pack i've found, that have some of the glowmaps.
Don't hesistate to tell me how things are going, I get burnt out on a regular basis and I'm always happy to share what I know/help.
Right now, I'm making a run at getting DarkPlaces to compile on Android. A past project of mine was: Quakeone.com
The Android stuff is super-annoying, I often get in a mood where I want to address the worst and hardest item on a todo list so I'm trying to handle that one.
Usually out of habit I do something very hard before doing things that are very detail oriented but not hard (like the remaster stuff).
I saw "Monolith", are you a recent or even current game developer?
I'm trying the following:
First i'll organize and create all the assets that I'm thinking in using for my maps.
So far, I did a few textures, mostly preparing for use with glowmaps and normals.
I've collected a lot of research material for the setting of the first map I intend to do, but I already have many doubts on how to start.
Mainly, this are my main questions:
- What is the best way to achieve a "island" effect, with skybox and ocean matching, with good visuals? I don't know exactly how SUN works here, would need some help.
- What are my limitations with moving brushes, and what kind of interactivity I can use with level geometry?
- I have to gametest the gravity concept I have in mind, but the idea is to "make something stranger" as close as you gets... Imagine going into HELL, the more you enter it, the more something changes? (this kind of brush controlling cvar could be useful not only for gravity, but also for other things.)
- Maybe I'll play with the trippy and lsd shaders from xonotic for some usage.
- All the not-so-basic stuff... SOCK website is offline, there was a guide there on how to do some things nicely with shaders that I didn't find anywhere else... So, there is some form of multitexturing fade in some ready to go form for use with texture seams and transitions?
I want to do a forest, in a valley, with a river and a complex cave system, with the main cave entrance being guarded by, or a military base or a grotto. Most likely a grotto.
After learning those things, i'll try some engine testing, proof-of-concept testing of waterfall, gravity triggers, and all the new features of the engine.
At the end of the testing, i'll start mapping using ALL THE FEATURES that the engine has to offer and maybe, without quake in mind. This could be a new game.
No, just worked on the good ones.
=)
Was part of the engine team, the infamous JupiterEX engine.
Sock shader tutorials:
Web.archive.org
Q: skybox and ocean matching
probably a skybox entity model (a group of entities) .. Xonotic maps techassault and city new york are examples. I have not had the opportuntity to play around with that kind of thing yet. I was going to write a "lab report on that". I have not had the time to do experiments on that.
xonotic maps -> Xonotic.fps.gratis
city new york -> Dl.xonotic.fps.gratis
In citynewyork, the large background buildings are skybox entities. Some games that used q3 map, hills would be skybox entities. It is said you can do this with water if you are clever.
q3 mapping forum: Lvlworld.com
techassault is part of xonotic main, .map source comes with it
It is nice you have such a broad set of talents.
I'm trying to figure out how I want to clear out the very immediate stuff in the engine todo list. Then do the Trenchbroom kit and write a couple of tutorials.
I also need to keep hitting the Android build and get that to at least build and hopefully run. I simply want it available.
(Do you happen to have an Android device?)
"What are my limitations with moving brushes, and what kind of interactivity I can use with level geometry?"
brushes that move in Quake are generally func_plat, func_train, func_door. Quake3_Quake1 has rotation (rotating stuff including doors). More is possible like:
curved train: Moddb.com
sun stuff is interest of mine, I have not had time to think about it and do experiments with that yet.
> interactivity I can use with level geometry?
need an example ... I'm not sure what the question is there.
It is very nice you have a broad set of capabilities.
Hi there, sorry to bother you...
But wouldn't it be better if we had a Forum, Discord server, WhatsApp group or anything else to get people engaged on the project?
As I said earlier, I have one server underutilized, with enough RAM and storage to get a complete set of Forum, Website, Wiki and Chat running, and for me, I could install and get those done in a blink of an eye. I just don't have a free domain, but I could use a subdomain of some of my domains.
ALSO...
I'm using Zircon 36 + Darkplaces Classic with all the rerelease content on my work folder... But... Those graphic assets are nice, but theres a lot of room for improvement there...
So far, researching the best way to do beaches with animated water and foam.
TrenchBroom doesn't seem to have the right tools to deal with splines and terrain, so, can I map using the Custom NetRadiant from Ingar?
Or the Official GTKRadiant?
>Hi there, sorry to bother you...
It's no bother, feel free to ask any time. ;)
"But wouldn't it be better if we had a Forum, Discord server, WhatsApp group or anything else to get people engaged on the project?"
You can do that if you like, but I just wish to code and that is how I want to spend my time. I am very good at actually completing "way too complicated" projects ;)
I personally do not wish to spent time on discord and such, I want to code.
This project could use a couple of very social people on it. That cannot be my role or how I spend my time.
(I did use to be super-social, I was a co-founder of QuakeOne. As my coding abilities increased, my desire to use them increased. And I have kind of evolved to just be "all action through coding" and chat way less, haha)
> netradiant ...
Trenchbroom and J.A.C.K. use .fgd files. netradiant uses .def.
I don't have the extra 30 hours to make .def files. If you'd like to do that fine.
Also, I do not wish to use any Radiant ... at all.
You can use Radiant, but you would need to make the .def files for it and commit to testing them and maintaining them.
If you want to do those, yes sure use netRadiant but I have never found one that works acceptably on my main computer.
So you would need to make the .def files from the .fgd files yourself.
Likewise, I'm not willing to document for netRadiant either.
I am not willing to throw 120 hours of time to supporting a crappily designed editor. My time is my only resource for coding.
So if you want to use netRadiant that is fine, but you would need to commit to also supporting it yourself.
"But... Those graphic assets are nice, but theres a lot of room for improvement there..."
Definitely. I'm just 1 guy.
"So far, researching the best way to do beaches with animated water and foam."
In my head, I build things functional first. Later, I strive for perfect.
Foam, for instance, no idea at this time.
Anyway, I am doing the Quake3_Quake1 stuff today and tomorrow (2 tutorials also, waterfall one, gravity triggers) and tomorrow after I get out a mostly reorg engine update today.
If you want to do the netradiant path (which means supporting it and making .def files) here is the not finalized .fgd (it is wip, not cleaned up).
Link ... : Moddb.com
If you want to see more experiments I've done and play with them yourself:
Link ... : Moddb.com
Pics: Moddb.com Moddb.com
So far I'm working only on gameplay flow, but as of an editor...
Using Trenchbroom, trying different gameplay paths...
I already have some tricks up my sleeve for foam and a few other complex visual things... Darkplaces was already a good engine to begin with! =D
I have to read some of the code, mostly regarding audio code, for "interactive soundtracks" usage.
I'm already good on making terrain seams and transitions, using the methods from Sock.
The Water/Skybox/Sun combo still is something I'll see later... So far, just focusing on exploration and flow, with no bestiary, no weapons in mind so far.
I need to stop making ceiling fans with lighting. hehehehe
I'll look into the social aspects of the things... The mapping community, for quake, as a whole, seems too much "fragmented", if it makes sense...
" The mapping community, for quake, as a whole, seems too much "fragmented", if it makes sense... "
Your insight is impressive. Yes, that is very true.
Most of the creative types used DarkPlaces, the rest used conservative engines.
DarkPlaces always had compat and stability issues. Then LadyHavoc left for good for the tech industry, DarkPlaces drifted towards a xonotic first engine.
With no real support left, the DarkPlaces people mostly faded away in time.
With most of creative people gone that desired sophisticated features to support scenery and such, Quake mapping is on the fast track to the cemetary, making visually unappealing works (they may look good for Quake and they do, but it requires the "for Quake" qualifier) that kids today that have played Minecraft or Roblox would not have an interest in playing.
I had the thought that maybe I could revamp DarkPlaces with Trenchbroom as the main mapping focus and expose/extend DarkPlaces features to perhaps complete the goal of DarkPlaces.
To create a "future Quake" that is easy to use like Quake, but with way more features for mapping.
"I need to stop making ceiling fans with lighting. hehehehe"
Hehe
Then we do have the same goals in mind.
I grew up having a 486 DX2 that didn't ran quake very well, playing only build-based FPS's at my early days (as a kid!)...
Mapped a lot for DN3D... But when I saw Quake... WOOOOOOOOAAA...
ITS ******* EVIL!
The art style, lovecraftian themed, fantasy with tech, and a soundtrack by nine inch nails?
SO, yes, I do want to have this feel back for newcomers...
Do you remember the project "Shambler's Castle", by Obwando, heXum, Quaker-X and others?
I can't seem to find those assets... That project was awesome... QuakeRemix...
I remember they even had finished the new Start map!
And where are the legends from the Quake Community? Tabun, Sock, Necros, Lunaran, Ruohis, Capnbubs?
I'm collecting the best assets the community has to offer, I already have a working texture set for materials, I remember the xonotic documentation being ****** on darkplaces-specific stuff related to materials (shaders)...
This video from 3kliksphilip illustrates quite well some issues that I'm trying to solve on Zircon with water seams and transitions...
Using J.A.C.K. as of now, this thing is the closest I have to WorldEdit or Hammer++.
My idea of parallel dimension using warpzones is just to make the quake story side of the thing feel even more quakey, if it makes sense. =P
After all, its all portals or teleporters, everything always have to do with portals and teleporters... But... WE HAVE WARPZONES NOW! =P
I still have a dream, of one day, we having a centered quake community with online resource sharing and usage... Think like some sort of "OpenEMU.org"... But instead of choosing wich platform... You'll choose wich base-game. =P (And there is potential here also for revenue!)
I'm using the sock terrain technique, still not using meshes for terrain, at least using splines quite well, but what about phong shading? how can I tweak and control this kind of thing? GLSL exposes everything to me there? Would like a lot to port some shading from F.e.a.r. 2 to Darkplaces.
Mostly I'm doing scenery brushwork now, since I want some nice things about "my island". hehehe
Kids today care a lot about "things moving in a kinectic way" on the screen, so, I didn't saw any skeletal based ragdoll physics on a quake 1 engine game yet.
And other thing... We need something to make quake feel a little bit more... EMPOWERING.
The enemies already go after you like they only breath for the solely purpose of killing you... I was thinking, at least for this openended map, in taking a look in the "In The Shadows" mod codebase from sock... He is unreacheable, but if I credit him, can I fork the logic?
Also, I've saw a few id Tech 3 games with AWESOME animations... How we are on this standpoint on Zircon?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5l2xr5BBq8, man, these animations... Makes me remember an old mod for quake, third person with classes... Imagine that, with skeletal animations and a good combat design?)
I'm cooking up something to make managing a community around game content more engaging for everyone involved, players, mappers, modders and programmers.
(this is in my language, portuguese, but is one of my dreams, involving quake. Media.discordapp.net )
I'm meditating a bit trying to recover from burnout. I thought I would share some concepts of mine.
These are my thoughts, they are not necessarily right (I am made out of human and can make mistakes and be wrong, etc.)
1) Due to moddb, this project can "win" through gravity alone. All that is required is coding, producing quality map demonstrations and documentation. Everything else will naturally fall into place.
This is because moddb is a meritocracy where exotic and entertaining works can easily get attention.
2) So .. as time passes this project will naturally attract talented future thinking creative people.
What is the opposite of that?
Recruiting from the Quake community is the opposite.
Most of the existing Quake community is not ready to be unplugged from the matrix.
Trying to create a futuristic Quake and trying to recruit from a pool that does not understand the concept is a paradox.
There are tons of people out there, let the likeminded ones come of their own free will and interests.
3) Evolution.
There is a big list of things that need addressed in DarkPlaces. They cannot be done at once, so I take my yards when i can get them (American football analogy). And I repeat that.
I never get all that I want, but after several times I get closer to the goal.
Only you know how best to achieve what you wish to do, what works for me does not necessarily work for others.
Xonotic has skeletal stuff [99% sure] (I have never used it, it is likely complex).
What you might consider focusing on, is how to complete a version 1 (or 0.1 or whatever numbering system you like). And then release that. Then later do an update to version 2, etc.
The one for sure thing is that there are a tons of things that can be done.
But what really makes an impact is reducing a set of ideas down to something concrete in a map release, and then people getting to playing it. Even Arcane Dimensions, it is 1.80 version. They had old versions, hehe.
Anyway, back to Quake3_Quake1 Trenchbroom/J.A.C.K stuff. Yes, J.A.C.K is very hammer like. Too bad closed source. My first map editor was Worldcraft and I am very wired for the Hammer way of doing things.
Well... I'm progressing, slowly.
I already have some vegetation models done, the terrain for the first map of my effort is done, shading, not there yet.
I'm using the polycounts as a guideline for my performance targets.
When its more polished, i'll share here my progress. =)
=D
I'll do a 3rd small tutorial in addition to the waterfall/gravity, it'll be how to add trees/shrubs to a map from Quake3_Quake1.
The image for the current download is ons_reborn from nexuiz, which I retextured and repopulated with monsters (it looks a bit meh, but I had wanted to play with concept and feel. The concept works, just needs a nicer looking textures) and some shrubs from opengame art.
nexuiz had a lot of vegation, xonotic does not really use any of it.
When used correctly, some of it can look quite nice.
pic: Media.moddb.com
> I'm using the polycounts as a guideline for my performance targets.
Cool ;)
> "Shambler's Castle"
yes, it came to mind when starting this.
> And where are the legends from the Quake Community? Tabun, Sock, Necros, Lunaran, Ruohis, Capnbubs?
Sock is around. I think Lunaran is around. Others not so sure.
Don't know how to contact.
> phong shading?
my experience with Q3 mapping is limited, I am still learning the advanced topics and I have not had time to play much with that. I would ask at Lvlworld.com , those guys are friendly.
> Then we do have the same goals in mind.
It seems we do, very much so.
I am going to work on the Quake3_Quake1 thing for Trenchbroom until I complete it today.