How long will the XBOX 360 last before it is superceded? Thread

The Thread name says it all lol

How long will the XBOX 360 last before it is superceded?
By that i mean, when will it get to the point where the graphics cannot be improved? Something tells me it won't be able to run Crysis at Maxium Settings with a High Definition Resolution. (Like 1920 x 1600 -> I cant remember resolution values off the top of my head)

erm...xbox360 games arent just pc games that run on the xbox
they are specialy made, so if they optimize crysis for the xbox then it would definitly be possible
but most companies cant be assed to do that and just say that the game is to graphicly intensive for the console :/

once games start using the full potential of the system then and only then will it be replaced.

... or when Microsoft decides it needs a new hype magnet cos the old one is too boring

@Dark_Raver9

Not really. Optimise all you like, sooner or later you'll hit the hard limits of memory bandwidth and processing capacity. A top end PC is simply more powerful, and even the most clever code in the world can only go so far to make up the difference.

I don't think any of the big three of the current generation are going anywhere any time soon. They've all been more-or-less fairly commercially successful with high take rates. I'd imagine we'll see them around for a good few years before we hear of any successors, and even when succeeded, they'll still be reasonably mainstream.

The big question is how long are Microsoft and Sony going to keep the rivalry based around their current platforms, and who is going to make the first move into the next generation. Too soon, and no-one will see enough of a difference to justify the cost. Too late, and they let the other side establish a dominating lead. I can't see either side being overly patient - the minute they can demo hardware in the £300 - £400 price range that can show a clear leap forward from the current hardware, they'll start the hype machine rolling and prepare for a new launch.

Nintendo will just sit back and enjoy it's large and profitable niche. They can safely ignore the oneupmanship contest that's going on between the other two. Although Sony and MS are making some moves towards Nintendo's new market, I haven't seen either make a move strong enough to give Nintendo major cause for concern. Sony and MS definitely have each other as their main focus.

Hmm interesting, i have seen some websites talk about the launch of the Xbox 720 during the years of 2010 and 2012... so Microsoft is in the lead really on that point. Microsoft are also releasing a xbox 360 slimline (yes copying Sony's Slimline PS2)

What i really wanted to know to be honest, is how far can the GPU go before it can't go any further? But to be honest, graphics aren't getting HUGELY bettter these days because just look at the newer games like Crysis and Heavy Rain, they don't seem to look any different nor improvable (Yes Heavy Rain uses the Rain and lighting to provide a newer look).

Gibberstein wrote: The big question is how long are Microsoft and Sony going to keep the rivalry based around their current platforms, and who is going to make the first move into the next generation. Too soon, and no-one will see enough of a difference to justify the cost. Too late, and they let the other side establish a dominating lead. I can't see either side being overly patient - the minute they can demo hardware in the £300 - £400 price range that can show a clear leap forward from the current hardware, they'll start the hype machine rolling and prepare for a new launch.

A long time.

Console generations rely on leaps in CPU processing power to display their relative 'worth' versus their competitors, and probably still will in the next generation, since throwing new graphical hardware results in a little more eye-candy, but little else. Since the 360, leaps in processing hardware have been fairly minimal (two generations, one of which was fairly minor). All gaming tech progress have been primarily in the realms of integration of physics and new shader techniques into the GPUs, which have made massive bounds since (four generations, all significant). Until we get some new steps in our wonderful shiny central processing systems, we won't be seeing any giant leaps in console hardware.

Gibberstein wrote: ... or when Microsoft decides it needs a new hype magnet cos the old one is too boring

@Dark_Raver9

Not really. Optimise all you like, sooner or later you'll hit the hard limits of memory bandwidth and processing capacity. A top end PC is simply more powerful, and even the most clever code in the world can only go so far to make up the difference.

true but if you dont optimise you will reach that limit faster :p

Console hype is all about what you can do with the CPU? I wish it was. 99% of the marketing push is about emphisising how high-res and fancy the new graphics look compared to the previous generation/rival platform. Stuff like AI and gameplay depth are usually a footnote in the press releases at best

Thus, a jump in GPU spec plus a small hop in CPU power would probably be just fine in the eyes of both platform holders. Plus, an increase in GPU flexibility hopefully means more graphics work is moved from CPU to GPU, which would mean more CPU available for AI etc even if the CPU doesn't increase in power all that much

Unfortunately what tends to happen is the graphics guys just hog both, and AI will continue to scrape by with the dregs they leave behind Curse all you shiny graphics whores!

Tangent finished now Main point is that there is something they can put in the glossy adverts if they want to, so they could release one soon if the timing is right according to the marketing guys... and at the end of the day the commercial politics will carry far more weight than technical considerations. The past actions of both companies prove that.

....and editing to reply to D_T9

I think top end PC's are already past the optimum you can hope to achieve with a console. The memory is the killer for console graphics - both are both severely memory limited, and if you want high-res textures there's only so many you can squeeze in at once. Artistic judgement and good art direction can go a long way towards hiding the compromises, but they are inevitable. If you want a large, open world then gameplay starts to hit the same compromises too. Games like Fallout 3 are still an awkward fit for the consoles, and will always suffer longer and more frequent loading pauses than a mid-or-better PC because of it.

Us programmers are good, but it's stil science we do, not magic

Edited by: Gibberstein

What I seriously hate about the xbox360 that I sometimes play at a friend's is how weak the dvd-drive is. Played Fable2 yesterday and there are these annoying stutters whenever an item window is loaded into the world (e.g. the Wanted Posters). There were also some stutters in the cinematics and some people had gone past me for a long time, yet some character would mention them like they are just there.
As Gibberstein says - it's all about the memory. There will always be compromise to be made when developing for consoles. Especially streaming technologies and improved AI would be much further ahead now, if the core gamer wouldn't be satisfied with mainly graphical and online play solutions/improvements.

Gibberstein wrote: Console hype is all about what you can do with the CPU? I wish it was. 99% of the marketing push is about emphisising how high-res and fancy the new graphics look compared to the previous generation/rival platform. Stuff like AI and gameplay depth are usually a footnote in the press releases at best

I disagree.

Console title hype is all about the pretty pictures, which might explain the enormous quantity of lack-luster titles in the current generation. When the 360 and the Ps3 were competing at launch, it was all about processing power. Hell, Cell is still the Ps3's biggest marketing aspect other than it's games.

SinKing wrote: What I seriously hate about the xbox360 that I sometimes play at a friend's is how weak the dvd-drive is. Played Fable2 yesterday and there are these annoying stutters whenever an item window is loaded into the world (e.g. the Wanted Posters). There were also some stutters in the cinematics and some people had gone past me for a long time, yet some character would mention them like they are just there.
As Gibberstein says - it's all about the memory. There will always be compromise to be made when developing for consoles. Especially streaming technologies and improved AI would be much further ahead now, if the core gamer wouldn't be satisfied with mainly graphical and online play solutions/improvements.

yeah the unit's dvd drive is an absolute goddamn travesty. don't get me started on it, but microsoft should be held as accountable for all the technical issues it causes as they are for the RROD heat issues.

That noisey disk drive won't be there for long, since they are going to allow installing games onto the Harddrive. To be honest i find that a great idea but ridiculous at the same time... piracy is it really....

I think that the Xbox 360 (or future developments in consoles) should focus on Ai and scripting more then graphics now, i agree with Gibberstein on that point.

Ai in most games is to be honest, CRAP. Look at Fallout 3, the NPCs (anything that can move really) ALWAYS get stuck on something, i know Ai Pathing would be hard but you know, work on it to make it greater then any other game.

Well thats really what i think...

General_Atrox wrote: That noisey disk drive won't be there for long, since they are going to allow installing games onto the Harddrive. To be honest i find that a great idea but ridiculous at the same time... piracy is it really....

how so? you still require to have the disk in the drive to start the game.
you can hack the xbox so it doesent perform that check, but that way you lose live, not worth it i say

Well sure the game will (i don't know actually) require the disk but it will only read it ONCE, after that it shouldn't make any more noise... why should it? All of the files are already on the harddisk... Microsoft might start dishing out CD-Keys soon that require you connecting up to live for correct validation

Yes i know that is a problem for those of you out tehre that enjoy buying second hand Xbox 360 Games... but i guess it's tough lol, i'm not going to complain because i got my favourite game already FALLOUT 3!

I'm more of a PC player though to be honest.

I reckon Microsoft should equip the 360 would ultra cooler for both the Hardrive and CPU/GPU etc... That way no defaults hopefully...

yeah the disc needs to be in the drive for authentication purposes only, otherwise it would probably encourage warezing :p
cd keys on a console? no, not even microsoft would do that, not even ea :/
i think its a good-ish idea tough IF the reduce in load times is noticable otherwise it loses its usefulness completely

about the cooler problem, there are alot of sites wich are dedicated to hardware mod your xbox (modchips to but i dont mean those)
they talk about adding other coolers and so
i wont do it tough i mean, it is noisy but it doesent bother me that much
only problem atm is that when the game spins and the xbox is standing against the wooden side of the closet/rack/whatever then you can hear a buzzing noise wich is anoying :p but if i slide the console 1 cm to the left its gone so why bother xD
i still think the xbox is one of the best consoles of the current generation (just my opinion :p)

The thing i hate the most about the xbox 360 is that when you acccidently knock over your 360 when your jamming out to a great game of guitar hero... now my guitar hero disk is non exisistance pretty much, has a perfect 360 degree laser burn on it

Great idea microsoft, sometimes i wish Cartriage games were back in actions GIMME N64 2 plz!

Hopefully the copying to the harddrive will decrease loading times, and might make the game run faster. Cooling is always a problem for those gamers that love to play Fallout 3 for 7 hours without stopping (not pointing any fingers =D)

This thread was set up mainly because i need help with a bit of coursework for college... talk about the Xbox 360 hardware... ahh glorious!

Dark_Raver9 wrote: i think its a good-ish idea tough IF the reduce in load times is noticable otherwise it loses its usefulness completely)

no it doesn't lose its usefulness and yes it does reduce load times in a number of cases

i was just saying allways think of the bad scenario to :p
off coarse it will load faster, but if it didnt then it would lose it usefullness :p
hadnt see any numbers tough, so now i did :p thanks frosty xD
oh well, 5 days remaining :p

I'm thinking this "copy the game onto the harddrive" is just asking for problems with piracy... also harddrive space.. what does each game take up? I'd say on average Xbox 360 games take up a good 3-6GB of space... and for people who don't have the enlarged harddrive (basically the 20GB one) will have trouble installing the games later.

I also think that the harddrive will require some sort of AUTO defragmenting, Auto Clean Cache that gets rid of old data in games. This is from experience now, i notice large scale games like TES IV (Oblivion) and Fallout 3 take up LOADS of the Cache space and after the 250th save the game really starts to chug along (slowing down)

Even with a defrag and clean cache file... it still slowed down for a while. It's got ALOT better now, hell knows why. lol I wonder if Microsoft will release a faster and larger harddrive for the Xbox 360? I mean something like 300GB at a good speed of 10,000RPM

Interesting i say... i think the 360 is becoming alot more of a computer now......

Regarding the XBox becoming a computer, a long time ago I remember someone saying that they saw the XBox (first one) as Microsoft taking a step towards replacing proper home PC's with a thin-client walled garden replacement system. That seems to very much becoming true - the XBox is doing more and more things that a PC can, but with Microsoft having near-total lockdown on what you can do, and how much it will cost you.

If this trend continues, it's going to have serious effects on the modding/indie gaming scene. Will MS still care about supporting games on Windows if the XBox gets to the point where it does 99% of the stuff a PC does for 90% of PC users? Once we are that small of a niche I can't see them caring any more, and I don't see anyone in a good position to step in to fill the gap. I can't see it being the PCGA, and after that who is left?

The open source and indie development community will be what's left, should that happen. That's of course, if Microsoft doesn't by this point phase-out / merge the 360 with the PC.

i'm pretty sure we'll see new stuff by MS/Sony in 2009. It won't be anything great concerning graphics but will be more interactive to compete with the Wii. No matter what people say, Nintendo IS the competition, especially with an economic slowdown: it's cheap (they haven't reduced the price but still can), everybody like it, everybody can play it. It's akin to getting the family a board game at christmas vs getting little johnny solitar.

I'd say the bigger question is what will nintendo do. They've played their ace & unless they come up with some almost as great as the Wii, a 360/Ps3 with wii-like interface could easily sell more.

This has been answered already. Don't know anymore but I think the articles showed up on the escapists. Anyways Nintendo does not plan to do any new console in the near future. The reason is ( according to their spokesman ) that they make a new console if they have a great new idea to change how gaming is done. So far there is none and the Wii performs well for them ( cashcow ) hence not changing a running system. And that's also correct in my opinion. The Wii has a special input schema which though up to now is not used correctly or "useful" by any of the games out there ( no, all this "sports games" don't use it properly... ). There's potential and once game developers start to tap into this potential ( using it as a real 3D input device ) instead of seeing the motion sensor as a "mere mouse replacement" then this console has still a long life ahead. One reason I don't like consoles is because they ( M$ and Sony ) churn out the same crap in couple-o-years steps with nothing but beefed up graphics. On the PC I can have this without paying excessive upgrade fees, having incompatible games, having DRM red-lights-of-doom and many other problems. I'm not a NFanboy in any way I'm just stating the things the way they are and why console gaming currently is a slugfest and the consumer is left out in the rain ripped of all his money "because we can!".