Post feature Report RSS Violation Flemoid Combat System Idea

The most repeated action in any fighting game is it's combat system. It'd better be fun, or people will stop playing after five minutes.

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I'm excited about this because the combat system is going to be the most repeated action in the game. As this solidifies, so does the rest of the game. It stops being a dream with a story to be told, and starts to become a solidified game. A game is different from any other type of story medium because of it's interactivity, and so for a game to be successful, it needs to also be fun. It seems like a simple concept, but that very principle is so often overlooked by beginning designers. Making a game for yourself is great if you plan on only showing to yourself. If I want other people to enjoy our mod though, VioFlem will have to get past telling just the story and make sure it's fun.

The key of good design though is making the "fun" side of the game compliment the story style. In the case of VioFlem, the visuals are bright, rich, slick, and flashy. So the combat system, which really is the essence of the "fun" and is therefore the key part of the game, should be quick, simple, and flashy to compliment the visual aesthetic. But on the flip side, VioFlem's story is deep and thoughtful. So, the combat system really should attempt to mirror the level of thinking that that is being put into the story and it's underlying meanings. Initially, the two seem like polar opposites. How do you create a combat style that's both deep and simple? How do you make it thoughtful and quick? With the recent ideas for the Lock-On system, combo's, and freeze time combat, I think that a good combat system is finally solidifying though.

The most important concept to understand first is the Lock-On System, so if you haven't read that, go check it out and then come back here. Make sure you read BHenderson's comment posted by Wiweeyum as well.

Okay, so you're always going to be locked onto an enemy. This compliments the sleek, quick nature of the visuals. Being able to run into a room and just go to town on the bad guys is very simple and gratifying, just like the visuals. Really only needing to focus on dodging and making sure your stamina bar doesn't fully deplete guarantees that it will be fun, so long as the enemies continue to be a challenge. That said though, it can't be too difficult. John Carmack of id Software said it best I think. He said that a game is "going to be balanced so that we never want to frustrate the player, you never want to make them do something where they're upset, pissed off at the game, whatever, which fundamentally means that you can't challenge them too much because there's a big trade-off there
between coddling the player in a bubble of entertainment that moves through all this wonderful media, versus something where... Only a subset of the people who buy games want a challenge." Making a game difficult to play is really only going to be fun to a small group of people. So I like the Lock-On system for that reason. It could be incredibly easy to fight and win seemingly large battles initially, but as the game progresses, making them more and more difficult is almost fundamental. As that skill of using the lock-on system becomes more solidified, the desire to show off you talents increases, so making it harder to win will always keep you on your toes. Using the lock-on system is less about twitch reaction time, and more about thinking the fight through in a clean simple way.

That covers the quick simple side, so what about the strategy? Before going into it though, I really want to mention Bryan Henderson's comment on the Lock-On page. He said "another thing that hasn't been done in fps/tps style games: combos". Combo's are fun, and it makes you feel very in control of the fight. It makes you feel like you're kicking butt, even if there is no other way of playing the game. Actually, there aren't too many recent games that have taken advantage of a combo system. Devil May Cry has a really good combo system though, one that's fun and quick. It's based around your two weapons, a gun and a sword, and being able to switch between the two very rapidly. The enemies, when hit, lie on the ground for a second or so so you have enough time to hit them again knocking them into the air. While they're in the air you have time to put your sword away, then shoot them with your gun. Shooting them sends them higher into the air, so you then have enough time to hit them with your sword again. Because everything is so fast, simple, and flashy it just doesn't get old. I like this game play, and obviously so do a lot of other people. One thing that I really like about Devil May Cry's gameplay is that the small weak enemies aren't just there as cannon fodder. Beating all of the little guys into the ground isn't so much like an annoyance as it usually becomes in most games. Beating all the little guys into the ground is fun and creative feeling. All of this doesn't really delve into the thoughtful side of things though...

So, I was trying to think of a game style that is action oriented but required strategy and thought. I've always wanted to see a game that was quick like an arcade game, but required the thought that is necessary when playing a game like Risk, or Settlers of Catan. There are games that do the board game style well... they aren't quick like an arcade, but they can be learned from. My favorite real time strategy game is Supreme Commander. One of the reasons I really like this game is the ability to set "waypoints" that tell individual units to do a list of things, and where to do them. An example of this can be seen in this video HERE. Planning out your attack beforehand by creating paths of direction, as well as when to do each attack made this game very strategy based. Though I completely stunk at actually creating any strategies that worked, the fact that the play style leaned away from the in-your-face twitch reaction type of game play made it more fun for me.

Okay, so we've covered the combo's and the strategy. This is where the freeze time comes in. I have not played Knights of the Old Republic, but after watching videos and hearing people talk about it, it sounds like they implemented a freeze time system into their game as a way to switch weapons, tell your team mates where to go and who to attack, set force powers, and things like that during a fight. An example video can be watched HERE. It's not the most exciting thing to watch but if you skip over the dialogue, it's alright. Pay specific attention to the beginnings of the fights. Actually, it's hard to tell it's even a fight until he's already selected what he wants to do and unfreezes the game. Anyway, the elements I want to point out are:

  • Being able to rotate the camera around to survey the fight.
  • Selecting weapons and such in a calm environment.
  • Being able to freeze the fight at any time. (I'm actually not sure this is in K.O.T.O.R. but it's something I want to point out anyway.)
  • No limit to the amount of times you can freeze time. (limitations will come in other ways)

Now that all of the theories have been covered, here's my idea for VioFlem's combat system. Now we get to combine everything together so that you can strategically create combo's, in a calm environment, that are executed in the visually appealing way that Devil May Cry does. So I'll explain it with an example.

You're running down a hallway, and you turn the corner into a large room filled with flemoids. There's easily 10+ of them in there, and without really thinking it through, you could easily get plastered pretty quickly. Already the flemoids are throwing snot baseballs and stuff at you, and if you don't jump to the side, then you'll be covered in no time. The problem is that if you dodge, you're wasting time that would be really helpful in thinking about what you're going to do. So you hit the button that activates the freeze time, and everything stops. All the slime flying through the air just stops and all the enemies stop moving mid-stride. As long as the freeze time is activated, nothing will happen, giving you the ability to study every single enemy in the room by rotating the camera any which way you want. There's no limit to the amount of time that you can be in the freeze time either, though it wont take too long to plan out your attacks anyway. As you're getting an idea of everything in the room, you notice that there's a bird swooping down behind you that you normally wouldn't have noticed. You also see a pipe right above a group of the flemoids heads that, if shot, will explode and send a pressurized blast of zorch on top of them. So, you set way points on the different enemies like in Supreme Commander literally setting up the attacks before they happen. Using something similar to the lock-on system, you click on the bird, because it will hit you first. Once you click on it, a circle pops up around it that has all of your weapons displayed. You select your semi-automatic pistol, which then displays an icon of your pistol on top of the bird. You then select the pipe that will blast open when shot and set it to be shot with a rocket. You then bring out a fully-automatic weapon and set it to spread fire across multiple enemies throughout the room. Lastly, you set it to chuck a grenade over to a clustered group of less formidable enemies in the corner. Once that's all selected, you un-freeze time and watch as the main character goes through all of the steps very quickly. He whips out his pistol and plugs the bird, then quickly grabs the rocket launcher and shoots the pipe which explodes and fries 80% of the flemoids under it. He then whips out the fully-automatic gun and sprays everything in the room, getting rid of the remaining enemies that weren't finished off by the pipe explosion. Then lastly, he tosses a grenade over into the baddies lurking in the corner. All of this happens in about 5 - 10 seconds. All the enemies are gone, and it leaves you feeling refreshed that what you planned out worked. It's strategically thoughtful in the beginning, and quick and flashy at the end. So in other words, it's complimented both sides of the game and it's just plain fun.

Now, there needs to be a limit to it's use or the game would just be incredibly easy. I don't want to have anything like a limit to the number of times you could freeze time though. How about just making every move you do drain some of your stamina. So then, as your stamina depletes, your accuracy becomes worse just like it would normally. Then the most important attacks would have to be rationed out because they would cause a quicker drain on your stamina. But what if a little combo bar was implemented similarly to Devil May Cry, that gave more points for a great finishing attack. That would force you to plan out a few medium sized attacks followed by a number of lesser attacks, then finish it with a large flashy attack.

Another thing to consider is that each enemy will move differently. There's a chance that your attacks wont do what you want specifically because that enemy wont be in the same place. Hitting a flemoid with a grenade wont have the same strategic effect if it's not still in the middle of a crowd.

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Wiweeyum Author
Wiweeyum - - 347 comments

The Green Avenger - Sep 10, 2008 4:57 PM PDT

The thing about this combat system to me is that it would almost be too easy. Even the stamina drain could be worked around. The pressure is what makes people sweat, making them have to move in a limited amount of time or they'll get clobbered. If you could just eliminate the majority of time pressure just by freezing time and telling the computer to do stuff for you, it seems like it would be eliminating the pressure, which is usually a very critical part of any game like this.

Of course, to actually judge this system, I'd really need a working model, but as it stands, I think it would need at the very least some more limitations.

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Wiweeyum - Sep 10, 2008 5:43 PM PDT

I agree. I want to see how it works just as much as you do. There will be some serious limitations to the amount of use the freeze time gets. It'll just need some quality playtesting time. :) Hopefully it amounts to something, eh?

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Yojimbo_Beta
Yojimbo_Beta - - 61 comments

Actually, I think it could well work as is. A stylish, properly implemented combo could offer large rewards, so there'd be an incentive to try and produce a single, room clearing combo rather than just spamming 'freeze' and picking off single enemies.

Here's one thing I have in mind: the player can freeze time by pressing a button. They then have, say, thirty seconds to scan the room and enter their combo commands. If they're successful, and within thirty seconds figure out a way to eliminate all six enemies in the room, they gain some large combo bonus. The incentive could be ammo, could be health, it could even be something as simple as combo points (like DMC). It doesn't matter.

If they aren't so successful, they get to freeze time again. However, they'll end up with a far smaller combo bonus, as they'll only take out, say, three enemies. At the end of the scenario, the number of attempted combos is taken into account, and they receive a bonus accordingly.

What I can imagine is a shooter that doesn't rely on things like health and ammo, only a single combo score. Getting hit reduces your score, it doesn't kill you. The combo score is your ammo meter - you invest your winnings in new combos for potentially greater return. High scores could work with enhanced visuals and music to produce a feel good factor.

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Wiweeyum Author
Wiweeyum - - 347 comments

I like it.

Reply Good karma+2 votes
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