This mod completely changes the persuasion aspect of the game. No more wheel slider thing. There are role-playing elements now; you have to know characters inclinations and preferences to successfully persuade. It also adjusts the number parts too, cha
It is with great thanks to Eric that I have been given permission to create an OBSE version of persuasion overhaul.
- Just readme updates to be more up to date.
- Added optional MMM and OOO compatability plugins.
- Fixed some conflicts with the unofficial patches.
- Variable disposition gains added such for example your an imperial and you try to persuade an orc. When you succeed in persuading you raise his disposition less than another imperial, but if you fail you lose more disposition with the orc. Also on the really dispised races its much harder to reach 100 disposition.
- Some scripting optimizations.
- Dynamic mercentile based bribes. Bribe Price scales with your skill in mercentile to take the emphasis off speechcraft.
- Bribes are also a little less effective in increasing disposition.
- Added Shivering isles compatability plugin.
- The persuade topic will now always be at the top of the list of speech topics.
- Fixed a issue causing frame rate drops when in dialog or other similar menu events.
- Sounds files are now available as either bsa or folder option.
- Now requires OBSE version 11
- Sound files are now packed into a bsa
- The startup pop up has been removed asking you particular questions as its now all done automatically
- Speechcraft progression now updates instead of appearing to stay still on your characters stat screen
- If you lower someones disposition you get slightly less experience than if you raise it.
This mod gets rid of the persuasion mini-game in Oblivion and replaces it with a system that is more realistic and better balanced. I feel that the current system is deficient in a number of ways:
- It's relatively easy to raise someone's disposition at or near 100 with only an average speechcraft skill, making it nearly pointless to raise this skill to its highest level.
- While the security mini-game simulates picking a lock, the persuasion game is a completely abstract exercise in lining up rotating wedges. You must say the same things to every character, and your success is only dependent on the order in which you say them. R-i-i-i-ight.
- Persuasion as implemented leaves little room for role playing. You must coerce, boast, admire and joke with every person you meet, regardless of your character's personality and values, or the type of person you are talking to.
Instead, this mod implements persuasion through regular dialogue. You are free to pick any option you want, and either try the same one over and over or alternate between many. Each time you pick an option, you have a base chance of success based on your speechcraft skill. Then, your chances are modified based on the current disposition of the NPC. The higher their disposition, the harder it is to raise it further. Finally, each option has an individual modifier based on a number of factors (see the Modifiers section below), making it easier or harder to use that option with a particular NPC. For instance, you will have a much easier time coercing a farmer than you will the Arena Grand Champion, and the burly Nord in the local tavern will be more impressed by your boasting than will the Countess of Chorrol, etc. In this way, there is some amount of player skill and role playing required for successful persuasion rather than randomly clicking options.
This version requires OBSE version 11 installed to function correctly which you can get from
You need to download the esp and the Sound files if you dont have them already.
You can download the sound files in BSA or in folder format. If you use an english version of oblivion its easier to use download bsa format as you just place it in your oblivion/data folder with the esp and your done.
If you do not use english or dont want to use bsa, you need to download the folder version of the sound files so you can translate the english folder names in oblivion/data/sound/voice/persuasionoverhaul.esp/ directory to your respected language.
Simply unzip the contents of each zip file to your oblivion/data directory. Then activate the PersuasionOverhaul.esp the way you would any other. I recommend using the Oblivion Mod Manager utility (http://timeslip.chorrol.com/obmm.html) and setting this mod to load AFTER all other mods (see "Known Issues" below).
If you use the shivering isles enable the persuasionSI.esp plugin as well as PersuasionOverhaul.esp
If you use OOO load the PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp. If you use MMM load the persuasionoverhaul_MMM.esp, and consequently load both if you use MMM for OOO or FCOM.
Correct Load order
1: OOO and MMM related mods
You only need to download the new updated esp and replace your old one with this one. You will not need to re-download the sound files as you will already have them unless you removed them.
Once you install the mod, most NPCs will have a new dialogue option labeled "Persuade." From there, you get the four persuasion options (admire, joke, boast and coerce).
If you go into the old persuasion screen, you will still see the infamous mini-game, but it should be disabled with a message saying "Disposition maxed." Ignore this, that's the only way I could disable it short of hacking oblivion.exe (something I'd rather avoid). You will still need to access this screen if you wish to bribe someone.
Each time you select an option, you have a chance of success as previously described. If you succeed, their disposition goes up, otherwise it goes down -- simple as that. Although the outcome each round is random, your odds are governed by in-game factors. There is no longer any maximum disposition; any character can in theory raise someone's disposition to 100. In practice, however, it is quite rare to get someone's disposition that high if you're not an expert in speechcraft. What usually happens is that you'll reach a point where it becomes very difficult to get past; the disposition will alternate between going up and down. Part of the "game" is learning to recognize when you're ahead and stop, else you risk undoing some of your progress. Or, you may get lucky and raise it further...
The other part of the game is figuring out how to read each NPC's personality and determining which option(s) work best. If something isn't working, try a different option, or consult the "Modifiers" section below for hints. The apprentice and journeyman perks (see below) will also help greatly in guiding your choice.
Characters who choose speechcraft as a major skill will have a significant advantage over those who don't. At the starting speechcraft value of 5 for a minor skill, you'll have a tough time increasing anyone's disposition. In fact, odds are you'll decrease it. This will feel frustrating, especially compared to the current system. Stick with it -- your skill level will increase rapidly at lower levels. Just practice on people that don't matter to you as much, or get training, drink potions, etc.
Below is a list of factors that affect how different NPCs react to different options. There is probably too much information here to memorize -- just glance over it to get a feel for how things work. While I tried to stick to things that make sense or fit common stereotypes, some decisions were made purely for gameplay balance, so that there is more variation from person to person. For each of the sentences below, it's implied that the converse is also true.
- People of the opposite sex are easier to admire, and people of the same sex are easier to boast to.
- The lower a character's willpower and confidence, the more susceptible they are to flattery, and the easier they are to push around.
- NPC's with a low level of responsibility and intelligence are easier to joke around with.
- Stronger characters respond well to boasting but poorly to coercion.
- People with a high intelligence are likely to be skeptical when you boast.
- NPCs with a low personality are harder to joke with.
- If you have a high personality, you'll have an easier time admiring and joking with people
- Higher levels of fame and fortune (luck) makes it easier for you to boast
- Infamy and strength help with coercion
- Intelligent players are better at telling jokes
NPC Race Factors:
- Nords and Orcs are easier to boast to, but harder to coerce
- High Elves and Wood Elves are easier to admire, but harder to joke with
- Imperials, Bretons and Redguards are easier to joke with, but harder to boast to
- Argonians and Khajiit are easier to coerce, but harder to admire
- Dark Elves are easier to admire, but harder to coerce
Pc Race Factors:
- Based on your race and the npc your persuading it will be slightly more difficult to have success in persuasion.
- Imperials, Redguards and bretons dispise Nords, Orcs, Argonians and khajiit.
- High Elves, Wood Elves dispise Nords, Orcs, Argonians and khajiit
- Orcs and nords dispise high elves and wood elves
- Argonians and Khajiit dispise high Imperials, Redguards and bretons
- Dark Elves do not dispise anyone so dont have any disadvantages to other races.
- (note each race is also affected by variable disposition gains and loses which will translate to some disadvantages: See Below)
Variable disposition gains
Generally depending on your race and the npc's, the disposition gains will be more or less depending.
Dark elves generally gain around 9 disposition each succesful persuade but get the original 10 if its another dark elf.
Imperials would only get 7 disposition points to orcs and nords and lose 11 disposition points on failure.
These together with the pc race factors make becoming a friend with certain races harder than they used to be.
Apprentice: When trying to persuade a character, you intuitively sense which of your options has the worst chance of success.
Journeyman: When persuading a character, you gain a little more disposition when you succeed and lose a little less when you don't.
Expert: When trying to persuade a character, you intuitively sense which TWO options have the lowest chance of success.
Master: When raising a character's disposition to 100 through persuasion, the character will befriend you, and there is a chance that you will receive a personal gift. In the case of coercion, the character will instead attempt to pay you off with a sum of gold.
More about the master perk:
- The type of gift you receive will depend on the class of the NPC. So if you are befriended by a mage, for instance, you'll get something appropriate for a magic user. Commoners and merchants tend to give less valuable items than the more specialized classes (but some people that you think are commoners are actually warriors or thieves etc). Some of the items are quite nice, so there is now an incentive to max your speechcraft skill!
- The coercion payoff is based on the character's social class. So if you shake down a beggar, don't be surprised if you don't get much gold! Unlike a gift, you are always guaranteed to get money.
- The master perk only happens once per NPC. You cannot receive multiple gifts or payoffs from the same person.
- All of the audio for this perk (from "You know, I like you..." onwards) is unique to this mod. It was mixed from existing audio in the game, in some cases from 4 or 5 different sources per sentence per voice actor. I spent a LOT of time making it sound seamless and natural, unlike those automated telephone voice systems. Let me know what you think!
I also changed the settings relating to initial disposition. In the original game, it isn't uncommon to run into a complete stranger that has a disposition of 100 towards you, even though your personality and fame aren't that high. I toned down these settings so that you start with a lower disposition. Although the initial disposition is lower, your personality attribute is now the dominant factor in determining it (previously, faction and fame were contributing WAY too much). So if you don't plan to use persuasion or bribery at all, having a high personality attribute is still useful, though you will never see dispositions as high as you would by working at it. The way the original game was balanced, personality and speechcraft tended to overlap each other too much, i.e. the more you raised one, the more useless the other became. Now they work well both individually and together.
Each point in your mercentile skill now effects your bribe prices. THe lower the skill the more costly bribes will be. This attempts to make bribes be governed more in mercentile than by your speechcraft skill. You speechcraft skill still helps to scale the bribe cost. Also bribes are now less effective generally in raising disposition. This is generally to make speechcraft feel more like a worthwile investment instead of just relying on cheap bribes. Bribes are still accessed from the original speechcraft mini game area.
- If you use another mod that changes perk descriptions (e.g. Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul) or speechcraft skill rate (e.g. Level Rates Modified), then they show as being in conflict. Don't worry, this is harmless. However, you should set this mod to load AFTER any of the above, since their changes make no sense in the context of this new persuasion system.
- There have been reports of the mod bloating saves. Unfortunatly i have been unable to get this myself or find a possible cause for this problem. Best to send me info of mods you run, wyre bash fix bloat result, version of OBSE you are running etc.
Possible Ideas for the Future
Eric was originally thinking of also adding a taunt option.
Making more settings of bribe be dynamically changed by your mercantile skill.
Possibly disable persuade topic if npc's disposition is reduced to 0. Would need to bribe or charm to enable the topic again.
Most of this mod is original property of Eric Parsons (firstname.lastname@example.org) who created the non-obse version of the persuasion overhaul mod.