Report article RSS Feed Why we removed the school shooter mod

We have removed the School Shooter mod from ModDB, read on for our explanation.

Posted by INtense! on Mar 19th, 2011

Allow me to begin this post by saying we believe in the freedom of speech, the right to share information and be creative. We have enjoyed watching mod developers push the boundaries for years and create amazing content, and shall always do this.

However, recently a mod on the site called School Shooter: North American Tour 2012 has been getting quite a bit of mainstream press due to the controversial nature of the content. It seems that people sit on two sides of the fence on this one. There are those that believe the makers of this mod should have the right to make whatever they want, while there are others that believe it is disgusting and crosses the line.

We sit on both sides, on one hand we find the content to be deliberately offensive and in poor taste, but on the other we also feel people should have the right to be creative and share what they want on a community / developer run site, and we shouldn't have the right to dictate what is/isn't allowed.

The challenge faced is we are currently receiving quite a bit of threatening mail as people believe we are the creators, supporters and makers of this content. I want to stress that this absolutely isn't the case. We have never encouraged or made any content, we disagree with the mod but at the same time believe in freedom of speech and the unique ability modders and indie developers should have to create games (good-or-bad) about topics, issues and events considered risky or taboo.

There is also quite a bit of confusion from non-gaming press, who state that games like this are the reason why all bad things occur, spreading misinformation and fear. As a result of this confusion and hate, at the moment we feel the best course of action is to remove the mod. We don't want the hard work of thousands of other mod developers to be threatened by people misunderstanding this one mod/game, and assuming all others are like it.

Edit: We did contact the developers with no reply back in August 2010, chances are this would have ended differently if they had replied.

Post comment Comments  (50 - 100 of 438)
holdenmcclure
holdenmcclure Mar 19 2011, 4:26am says:

Way to cave you guys, pretty lame.
There was nothing unlawful about the School Shooter mod, so any 'threats' issued to you were just knee jerk social reactionaries with little value for their free time.
If the School Shooter mod was worth anything, it was watching the social white knights try to infringe on constitutional rights, while other fictional atrocities presented in other forms of media go untouched.

You claim that you support freedom of speech but actions speak louder then words, and whether or not you believe it in doesn't change that your actions don't support the belief.

Oh and if you think that this is going to shut up the journalistic crybabies then you're sorely mistaken. By caving to their shallow demands you've only given them power, power that they'll be more inclined to use now that they have it. Expect to see these kinds of complaints more frequently now that you've caved to this kind of foolery.

+90 votes     reply to comment
INtense! Author
INtense! Mar 19 2011, 4:42am replied:

we've opened the comments because we feel people will be quite vocal and disagree with us and we welcome that. we are a community run site and will always attempt to do the best by our users. In this instance our primary concern is that this mod will tarnish the name of many others, as people just label gamers and modders in general as violent disrespectful individuals, which isn't right.

+65 votes   reply to comment
holdenmcclure
holdenmcclure Mar 19 2011, 4:54am replied:

At what cost are you protecting your credibility amongst uninformed idiots? You are a Mod Database, people upload mods and you host them. Your affiliation with School Shooter or any other mod ends there. Plain and simple. If people want to hold you or anyone else affiliated with this site accountable then what they need to be informed, and it's not your responsibility to spell it out for them. Making allowances for the stupidity of others will hurt us in the long run.

What you are saying to the public by doing this, is that you are acknowledging ridiculous claims that video games are causes of influence for acts of hatred like actual school shootings. You have compromised the validity of all shooters or games with violent content by doing this, because by proxy any game featuring violence should logically be an influence for crime.

In this critical hour where many people are watching, I was hoping that you would make the decision that would benefit gaming as a medium, or to at least bring it on a level comparable to other forms of media like movies or books, but you let me down.

+60 votes     reply to comment
Chinaski
Chinaski Mar 19 2011, 5:25am replied:

"You have compromised the validity of all shooters or games with violent content by doing this, because by proxy any game featuring violence should logically be an influence for crime."

Amen to that. In the old days the "Funda-mental-ists" attacked books as a source of a violent society, then they moved on to movies/video nasties. They move with the times and now it's video games that get the brunt of their idiocy. Meanwhile there are hundreds of homicidal killers in jails across the world who claim "god made me do it", but I never hear any mention of banning religion, which in my opinion would make the world a better place.

I personally wouldn't even play this mod, but I'm sure a lot of people would get enjoyment from it. And yes, I'm sure it would offend some people but life's like that, deal with it. Over the past few years there have been a slew of WW2 games featuring the player killing German soldiers, is that any less offensive?

To sum up, bad move MODDB.

+46 votes     reply to comment
Huhmasta
Huhmasta Mar 19 2011, 2:36pm replied:

I agree with the majority of you guys here. lol damn some of you guys should be arguing this **** against retards that is the mass media. Uninformed idiots who see one bad influence, automatically assume the whole structure has gone sour. If videos games honestly made people into violent psychopathic maniacs, then I'd say more than 1/3 of the population of US would be mass murdering the living **** out of people by now. But there you have it, the only case in which we actually DO have video games becoming bad influences on people are indeed EXTREMELY RARE CASES. Ignorant conservative retards like Jack Thompson fail to see this and also fail to even bother to do the most minimal research. So pretty much MODDB is covering their ***** in hopes that the media and other bitching uninformed idiots will simply GO AWAY. Have fun with that.

+10 votes     reply to comment
cheesemoo0
cheesemoo0 Mar 19 2011, 12:24pm replied:

I can't help, but agree.

I can understand why it was taken down and I personally found the mod in bad taste, but it should not have been taken down.

I hope this did not set a precedent. If someone wants to get rid of mod is all they have to do is complain enough and Moddb will oblige?

+11 votes     reply to comment
INtense! Author
INtense! Mar 20 2011, 2:01am replied:

The challenge is these complaints are not coming from ModDB members or even people in the games industry. They are coming from parents, and others who thought it was vile and twisted.

+10 votes   reply to comment
Mr.John
Mr.John Mar 20 2011, 4:46am replied:

First Id like to say: Black Ops was getting negative feedback for "Voletile content" by many reviewers. Did Treyarch or Activision shut it down? NO.

2nd Id say that: Media twists it all around, but they arent superpowerfull. What ModDB should have done is state the trueness of the mod, correcting the media. They would have to take up what ModDB says and probably apologize for their ignorance. Never succumb to others, and stand proud for what you believe in. Agreed, bad move indeed.

Thirdly: There is only one thing you can really tell "Parents" and other social high people who disagree with these things. "**** off." Tell them to understand before making stupid goddamn threats agianst a small mod. A MOD. As others stated players have murdered dozenions of russians, germans, aliens, zombies, mexicans and middle-easters. Somewhat US soldiers and slightly brittish ones. But if you make a goddamn game where purpose is to murder most US citizens or others alike, then you get critizised the **** out of. GTA4 is an example. Much bad reviews there for the "unneccecary voilence." JESUS.

+2 votes     reply to comment
JaMeS777
JaMeS777 Mar 24 2011, 1:13pm replied:

I agree with you!
Does USA think it's better than other countries?
No one took down Call Of Duty:Modern warfare 2 because you killed russians,but if you were killing americans HOOOOOOO Boy there would be a thousand people complaining about it
in the same game (MW2) they go to brazil(which is where i live) and kill
Brazilians!
did i complain about it?Did any other brazilians complain about it?
no...

+6 votes     reply to comment
JaMeS777
JaMeS777 Mar 24 2011, 1:04pm replied:

Saw is vile,twited,waaay more gory and scary and yet they're parents let their kids watch it,then why are they getting their panties in a twist because of a game?
Parents also let their kids play Saw:the videogame
They also let them play GTA
they don't complain about mods where you worship the devil or kill cops but they are complaining about THIS?
io could do the same thing with modded guns,a school map and Half Life 2 models!
And heck yeah i did!
then why in hell are parents complaining about this?
Videogames don't make people violent,Their Fear of violence makes them bring out the weapons,the fear of such weapons causes wars
a game would never damage someone's mind

+2 votes     reply to comment
hasaosan
hasaosan Dec 20 2011, 11:10pm replied:

lol you caved

how many cryin no life parents attacked the GTA game franchise? millions (not 10 or 20 like this case ****** millions)

GTA is not only NOT dead but is even making ANOTHER game to add to its belt

(note i know the game is deved by rockstar gaming)

+1 vote     reply to comment
Moonlightwolf
Moonlightwolf Mar 19 2011, 6:41pm replied:

Though I found the school shooter mod a frankly rather pathetic concept I didn't at any point comment on it's page or anywhere else about my opinion because in all honesty thats all the mod and its creators were after. A bit of hatred to bolster their deficient ego's (take ego as an innuendo if you must) the best thing to do with people looking for that kind of attention is to ignore them but unfortunately the mainstream media thrives on giving these idiots the attention they desire. Considering that television already has a vested interest in making games look bad (because games are constantly stealing their audience by being a lot more interesting) its not surprising that they take any opportunity to make a fuss and start tarring all mods and games with the same brush.

So well done moddb for not letting some pathetic attention seekers misuse freedom of speech to make trouble for the rest of us.

(and as for the school shooter developers, just save up, buy a really big car and drive round and round, it'll give your 'egos' the same extension without causing trouble for all the real developers out there.)

+10 votes     reply to comment
Kangaraptor
Kangaraptor Mar 19 2011, 7:35pm replied:

We should just wait for a new medium of entertainment, then everyone will move on to hating that instead of videogames.

On a more serious note, yeah, they've opened another door to the 'games are ebil )))' mentality, regardless that games generally reduce stress, and the few people who /might/ cause problems from playing say, GTA, had pretty big problems in the first place.

+7 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 7:58pm replied:

How the hell can you compare a ****** troll mod that doesn't even care to create their own assets to Grand Theft Auto?

-2 votes     reply to comment
Phenixtri
Phenixtri Mar 19 2011, 9:49pm replied:

it was in the codeing stage >>

+2 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 10:19pm replied:

They don't even have a coder, DERP

-2 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 20 2011, 12:26am replied:

@holdenmclure

And a mod that rips off HL2 assets without any resemblance of skill or dedication to anything other than trolling moves the gaming medium forward, how?

Somehow, you're convinced that the School-shooter mod is something other than kiddos that don't know how to use Hammer trying to become as famous as possible with as little skill and work as possible. They aren't even standing behind their own work as individuals because most of them are "Anonymous".

Again, how, specifically, does this mod move the gaming industry forward?

+5 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 21 2011, 11:18am replied:

Holdmcclure:

You say you defend freedom of speech, but willingly censor me as I post on your mod's wall about your defense of the School Shooter mod. Why is that?

Why did you censor me, when you should be defending my right to speak, even if you disagree with me?

-4 votes     reply to comment
holdenmcclure
holdenmcclure Mar 21 2011, 4:32pm replied:

I didn't delete your comment you fuckknuckle, your comment recieved so many downvotes that it got buried and you have to click 'view' to see it, which is something you should expect when you go to random persons ModDB pages and tell them you're not downloading their mod because you're so buttfrustrated that people defend freedom of speech.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Crispy
Crispy Mar 27 2011, 2:46pm replied:

Hatred is more dangerous than freedom: that's why Intense had to do what he did.

+6 votes     reply to comment
Matt_Bak3r
Matt_Bak3r Mar 19 2011, 5:10am replied:

It was the right choice, media can make your life hell. It's not worth it for a single mod.

+8 votes     reply to comment
KILLER89(FIN)
KILLER89(FIN) Mar 19 2011, 7:09am buried:

(buried)

And its not right to yield, when big brother says so.
Its like... being a bitch, who is abot the get ****** while options being: a) **** b) ****.

-24 votes     reply to comment
Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro Mar 19 2011, 11:24am replied:

When did "Big Brother" say so?

Last I checked Intense made his decision of his of free will.

+15 votes     reply to comment
ProspectGames
ProspectGames Mar 19 2011, 7:46am replied:

"this mod will tarnish the name of many others"

I am willing to be tarnished for standing up for freedom of speech and expression. This mod is in poor taste, but it should be allowed to exist. Now it will continue to exist elsewhere but I think you guys removed this because it looks bad on you.

We as a communinity do not need protecting, Video Games still get **** the world over whether they are offensive or not. I can understand Moddb wishing to protect itself (and I support that right) but please do not put that under the guise of protecting the individuals, we can handle ourselves.

+19 votes     reply to comment
Slevo
Slevo Mar 19 2011, 7:51am buried:

(buried)

MOD DB = attention *****.

All Intense is trying to say is I WANT PUBLICITY by shutting this down LOOK AT ME!.

on the front of the news paper people will see MOD DB takes action against i quote "MURDERING SIMULATORS"

Talk about Biting the Hand that feed's you, Intense.

You made a bold yet stupid move trying to attract publicity for your actions but yet setting a bar for the imagination of all Developers, And will this be the end? or will they push us back even further.

They have 1 victory why not take it further?

-67 votes     reply to comment
Captain_Romulus
Captain_Romulus Mar 19 2011, 11:06am replied:

*facepalm*

+21 votes     reply to comment
xXBerethorXx
xXBerethorXx Dec 21 2011, 2:05am replied:

The best, most sensible reply here :] congratulations!

+3 votes     reply to comment
CaptainLagfail
CaptainLagfail Mar 19 2011, 4:58pm replied:

Well, there goes my chances for Postal: Remixed getting on the front page.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Slambert-Anders
Slambert-Anders Mar 19 2011, 7:18pm replied:

Why the hell do you care about what people think about gamers and modders? That's irrelevant.

0 votes     reply to comment
Prez
Prez Mar 25 2011, 4:10am replied:

Chalk me up as disgusted by the way you caved on this. Whether this was a "troll mod", as some have asserted, or not is absolutely irrelevant. In the end, you acted contrary to interests the modding and gaming community at large, whatever your intentions. Your action is more of a detriment to gaming and modding than anything anyone, no matter how offensive, could put in a mod.

No, you may not have drowned puppies or starved children, but I am still outraged by this stupid, self-serving move and the ensuing lame excuse, both of which smack of blatant hypocrisy. I notice the thread has a report button- I am half-tempted to click it; since you're so worried about hurting everyone's delicate sensibilities, I guess you would have to delete this thread too if someone found it offensive. Way to royally screw up guys. I am resisting the urge to tell you how I *really* feel about you and your asinine stunt, colorful names and all, but if I did it might offend you, and then my post would have to be deleted. Now there's precedent, thanks to you. >:(

-4 votes     reply to comment
Wiskers
Wiskers Dec 22 2011, 9:19am replied:

Good on you guys for taking this disgusting, abhorrent mod down. There are some very sick, twisted people in this world and to call something like this "entertainment" is simply wrong.

+1 vote     reply to comment
KOYK_GR
KOYK_GR Nov 6 2014, 11:27pm replied:

but you are perfect? god like to point the right direction?

+1 vote     reply to comment
Rampsquatch
Rampsquatch Mar 19 2011, 11:20am replied:

I agree with the thing about caving in to the crybabies only gives them power, but how the hell could you possibly think there is nothing wrong with a game called school shooter? although this is the first I have heard of it, I probably would have left a comment on the mod's page asking the developer what the hell was wrong with him. And I agree completely with the course of action that moddb has taken. If a bunch of idiots who don't want to listen to what you have to say are bitching at you and you don't want them to go too far and ruin gaming and mods for everyone, like in this situation, you make a decision and you stand by it. I applaud the fact that moddb took decisive action and I think you have got to respect their decision weather you agree with it or not.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Ryswick17
Ryswick17 Mar 19 2011, 3:55pm replied:

If you were to do some research on why the mod was being made and not just reacting to the name of the mod, you might actually learn something.

-3 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 4:04pm replied:

The mod was being made in order to get reactions. Pawnstick and his lackies are mad that they made fire and are getting burned by it.

+4 votes     reply to comment
crowbar87
crowbar87 Mar 19 2011, 1:14pm buried:

(buried)

Freedom of speech? you gotta be kidding me. Try saying that to the parents of students who lost thier children in school killings.

who about a mod about 9/11? london bus bommings?

grow up man. some things are taboo. this is one of them.

-8 votes     reply to comment
{imperialreign}
{imperialreign} Mar 19 2011, 2:42pm replied:

There are some things that are taboo, yes, but not in the gaming media - not even in movies or TV. The film industry continuously crosses over with such stories, presented from many different perspectives . . . as does the literary world. Why should the gaming industry be subject to an entirelly different set of rules regarding what is and is not appropriate subject material?
We've already had blockbuster titles dance around such taboo issues with subject matter, without backing down. Sure, the media pitched a hellstorm over it, but they've forgotten it by now.
Games (and mods by extension) are in essence a story-telling media, whether that story is fiction, non-fiction, satire, parody or otherwise should not be up to the general media to decide. If a developer feels they have something to say, no matter how they decide to go about it, and no matter what the majority opinion of said subject matter is, they should have that freedom to do so. Simply because the vast majority of us don't agree with the subject material, or find it offensive, shouldn't mean they can't express themselves.
The mediawill find a scapegoat no matter what - it's when that scapegoat backs down instead of standing up and fighting back does it get worse. Look at how many times the music industry (or specific bands) have been targeted for various instances over the years . . . and the reason it falls apart so quickly is the industry standing their ground. The gaming industry has yet to stand up for itself, and these actions here are not helping the matter at all.
I, for one, completely agree removal of the mod was a poor choice. It should've remained. Perhaps instead moddb could've added numerous disclaimers and such therby protecting themselves and others here . . . but it should have been left alone.

+8 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 3:41pm replied:

ModDB shouldn't be put in a position to defend itself over a troll mod; you're kidding yourself if you even remotely think that this mod was anything serious other than to get blood to shoot out of people's eyes and take as much down with it. That's why it was pulled.

They can still develop it and promote the hell out of it (I doubt they will since I guarantee they already hit the high-tide of their propaganda); just not using the already established avenues of ModDB and Desura. No censorship; no injustice.

+1 vote     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 19 2011, 3:02pm replied:

I registered an account just to voice my thoughts.

Quite frankly, I think MODDB made a huge mistake in removing this mod by hiding under the guise of "protecting the images other mods." This would be like my local library banning a really offensive book because it is a detriment to other books. It hasn't happened, nor will it ever happen.

By caving into the unfounded concerns of parents who don't understand what the ESRB system is for, you've just destroyed all credibility in the arguments made within the main post.

Example:
"...but on the other we also feel people should have the right to be creative and share what they want on a community / developer run site, and we shouldn't have the right to dictate what is/isn't allowed."

Except by caving in, you essentially DID dictate what is/isn't allowed, thus in my mind, rendering that part of your post untrue.

Example 2:
"There is also quite a bit of confusion from non-gaming press, who state that games like this are the reason why all bad things occur, spreading misinformation and fear."

The non-gaming press ALWAYS claim random stuff is the reason why all bad things occur. Hilariously, it was FOX NEWS that ran the story. You know, the station that ran the story about anonymous and yellow exploding vans. Yet MODDB caved. As holdenmcclure has said, you're only proving that knee-jerk social reactions will evoke responses from the MODDB administration.

There is a saying that goes something along the lines of "I don't like what your saying, but I'll fight to the death to defend your ability to say it." MODDB clearly doesn't follow this principle.

+1 vote     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 3:36pm buried:

(buried)

So, since you just registered; you have zero jursiduction on what the ModDB community expresses. You have fully inadequate information to judge on whether ModDB made a mistake or not.

You're simply here because it's a cheap opportunity to sling mud.

-5 votes     reply to comment
ElSofaFuerte
ElSofaFuerte Mar 19 2011, 4:12pm replied:

I think you are taking cheap opportunities to sling mud by accusing people of doing so when they add some cents in as users of this site(however minor users that don't contribute). This is like banning a 9/11 relative from mourning the victims because they 'have no information'. Also, just because he just signed in you personally dictate for a fact he has 'no information on the issue' when it is in fact sitting right there.

+2 votes     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 19 2011, 4:15pm replied:

Nice ad hominem. I am not here to sling mud. I'm here because I have been watching this mod, and the moddb page is where I learned of it. I think it's unfortunate that the MODDB staff decided to remove the modification based on complaints of "oh it'll lead to more school shootings, etc." Arguing about what I believe that's a false statement is for another discussion. I still think iNtense's actions contradict what he says in his post. I have no doubt he only wants the best for the community. I just disagree with his decision.

+3 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 4:38pm replied:

Since you have been watching this mod, you should know that it is intended to stir controversy and if it goes down in a ball of fire, take as much with it. ModDB became an unwilling target in all of this. Pawnstick doesn't care about ModDB; nor does any anonymous coward on the team that can't show their face because THEY don't want to be associated with this project.

How in the world do you expect Intense to stand behind it when even the creators can't stand behind it?

+2 votes     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 19 2011, 4:50pm replied:

iNtense doesn't have to stand behind anything other than his "we support freedom of expression\" statement. Moddb is a database for mods. Controversial mods are going to get uploaded at some point no matter what. I'm not sure how ModDB would've been taken down with this mod. They only host the projects. They could've easily added a disclaimer somewhere stating that they are only hosting the mod and nothing more. Instead, it seems like they took the CYA approach and removed it all together.

"Pawnstick doesn't care about ModDB; nor does any anonymous coward on the team that can't show their face because THEY don't want to be associated with this project."

It's just a mod. There isn't much damage it can do. Most parents have never heard of ModDB and they most likely never will. And if they do, what is going to happen? A boycott? Let's get real here. If you're offended by this mod, I fully support your right to express that. However, I draw the line when your reaction prevents me from accessing content.

+1 vote     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 5:08pm replied:

You can still access it. You can go to Checkboard studios website. INtense isn't hindering their ability to develop or distribute the mod.

Your convenience doesn't equal ability to access. I think you are forgetting that.

+4 votes     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 19 2011, 5:17pm replied:

Good point. I should have thought of that before posting. But what if a mod's only website WAS the ModDB page? Removal would be denying content. This is how censorship gets started. Australia is a great example. They censored the crap out of L4D/L4D2 because people had knee-jerk reactions to violence years before, leading to censorship laws. In the end though, iNtense can do whatever he wants with the site. I just wish his decisions aren't guided by idle threats.

+3 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 5:27pm replied:

Then they can go other places to have it hosted for free, or even pay for hosting. You would have point if ModDB required people that registered mods to pay a registration fee. Then and only then would people have the argument of paying for a service and having it denied. AFAIK ModDB will never require payment for mods (Desura is a different story and a different platform), but as such you are subject to the whims of ModDB; you have no claims behind it.

ModDB is only one avenue of content hosting; not the only option. Those that make it their only option but provide ModDB with no consideration (money) have no legs to stand on. Much like the saying, you can't put all of your eggs into one basket.

+1 vote     reply to comment
ImABot
ImABot Mar 19 2011, 7:58pm replied:

Whoa don't **** on MobDB they needed to remove it because they where getting blamed for the mod's content, when it wasn't them, now i do also think this mod was sick in its own way, but then again they have the right to make what they want. But if you had someone outside your business protesting and you were getting blamed for it, wouldn't you kick them out and tell them to leave? Your sounding hypocritical. Oh and about your last comment, since ModDB started when's the last time you have seen a mod get his much attention?

+3 votes     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 19 2011, 9:40pm replied:

People have a right to protest. This doesn't mean that ModDB's only option is to remove the mod. They could've stated very clearly that they do not condone the mod at all, and played no part in its development. Hell, Google links to offensive material all the time. Unless it's something unlawful, I don't think they've ever removed any links (feel free to correct me on that). I feel that even though the mod was in poor taste, this action sets a precedent. To me, it seems like if any mod is made regarding a sensitive concept, the chances of ModDB removing it due to complaints are fairly high. While I understand that iNtense didn't want to deal with all the crap from media outlets and non-gaming press, I feel that he could've handled this situation slightly differently.

+1 vote     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 10:20pm replied:

The people also have the right to protest the protesters for protesting.

+3 votes     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 20 2011, 1:58am replied:

I never claimed otherwise :)

+1 vote     reply to comment
Gradius
Gradius Mar 20 2011, 1:32am replied:

ModDB isn't a goverment, it has every right to "violate freedom of speech" without actually doing so. Point in question: If I were just to post "N***er N***er N***er" my post would get removed because I'd just be being offensive for the sake of offending people... that mod is no different.

+3 votes     reply to comment
yournamehere
yournamehere Mar 20 2011, 2:04am replied:

"ModDB isn't a goverment, it has every right to "violate freedom of speech" without actually doing so."

I totally agree. If you read my argument again, you'll notice that I only take issue with the premise they used to justify removing the mod. As I've stated before, if the mod had violated a law or a rule in the TOS, I'd be right up there with you guys voicing my support. However, this mod didn't do any of those things. Was this mod an exercise to see how far limits could be pushed? Perhaps. But now that it's removed, what are the limits? Have we figured them out? What justification will be used to determine what is off-limits in regards to hosting stuff on ModDB? These are questions I have right now.

"Point in question: If I were just to post "N***er N***er N***er" my post would get removed because I'd just be being offensive for the sake of offending people... that mod is no different."

It would get removed because you are in direct violation of the 'Terms of Use' for ModDB. I quote from it: 'As a guideline any post that contains (but is not limited to) any of the following will be subject to remedial action by the moderators... comments of a bigotry nature (derogatory towards race, religion, gender or sexual preference)'

It doesn't look like this mod violates anything in the TOU.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Barnaby/Pizzaroma
Barnaby/Pizzaroma Mar 21 2011, 2:16pm replied:

Trololo

Freedom of speech? Alright, I'll just post random comments on your comments and we'll see what you think.

+1 vote     reply to comment
RocketSurgery
RocketSurgery Mar 19 2011, 4:26am buried:

(buried)

lame

-14 votes     reply to comment
Fallen_Angel.cz
Fallen_Angel.cz Mar 19 2011, 4:36am buried:

(buried)

This really made me laugh "we support the freedom of speech.... NOT" :D

-6 votes     reply to comment
Auxor
Auxor Mar 19 2011, 4:36am buried:

(buried)

Babies, babies everywhere.

-13 votes     reply to comment
macacos2
macacos2 Mar 19 2011, 9:48am replied:

I want to congratulate Checkerborded Studios for trolling everyone with fail content and making a couple more thousand parents and politicians support Videogame censoring and bashing.

You teenagers did a great job being lame.

gg

+25 votes     reply to comment
Xylemon
Xylemon Mar 19 2011, 4:47am says:

It's just a troll mod aiming for attention and there are already hundreds of those on here *yawn

+16 votes     reply to comment
ScarT-
ScarT- Mar 19 2011, 7:09am buried:

(buried)

I can assure you we're not a troll mod.

-22 votes     reply to comment
ludvink
ludvink Mar 19 2011, 7:34am replied:

Then what are you?
I'm a pretty tolerant man, but I cant see the point of this mod if its not about being offensive. Can you please explain it?

+12 votes     reply to comment
Slevo
Slevo Mar 19 2011, 7:55am buried:

(buried)

they are the line which has been drawn of what developers can create and not create.

That is what this game is now, If it was a troll game it now is much more then that.

-13 votes     reply to comment
ProspectGames
ProspectGames Mar 19 2011, 8:18am replied:

"If it was a troll game it now is much more then that."

Haha yes by censoring they have made it into so much more. You'd think, based on the amount of times this happens on the internet people will have learned. Just take a look at youtube, a video gets flagged un-fairly and a hundred mirrors will pop up. By trying to remove you instead create more copies.

+5 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 5:42pm replied:

But nothing's happened, besides a multi-page click-bait discussion.

+3 votes     reply to comment
NuclearBanane
NuclearBanane Mar 19 2011, 3:36pm replied:

Any one defending this never played Gmod and spawn civis and shoot them. Its so mindless only a total brain dead ***** would find it fun for more then 30 seconds. Its fun when its a zombie because it " can " fight back.

And then he makes promises that would make it a half decent mod ( Excluding the premise of shooting kids ofcourse ) but yet he can't actually make it because he isn't a modder of quality, just look at his other project.

I'm trying hard not to reply to any of the people crying Free Speech.

To all those crying free speech:
Free speech is very important when you have something to say which people should hear.
And to have a premise to remove that mod we had to listen to what he had to say.
After listening to the message, they and all the people you call " Haters " deemed it a message definitely not worth passing on and bad taste.

I support ModDB for shooting down this project which isn't a mod to better gameplay or introduce something new to make players continue playing HL2 mods.

+4 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 3:50pm replied:

Bingo. **** mod is ****.

You know you're messing with brainiacs when they wanted to leak their own mod in 12 parts on Rapidshare.....

+5 votes     reply to comment
Gishank
Gishank Mar 19 2011, 4:48am says:

Whilst I haven't personally played the mod, I think that you've made a very bad decision in caving in to baseless threats made by people like Jack Thompson. The only thing this action will cause is for people to choose to go to another mod-site like MoDDB, why? Well, simply because there are tonnes and tonnes of controversial mods out there, some which can be considered perfectly fine to others... What will you do? Remove them too?

As Holdenmcclue said, you've given in and thus given the people making these baseless complaints a little taste of power and as such they won't give up. Your actions haven't done anything to hinder the mod, only your own reputation.

-4 votes     reply to comment
INtense! Author
INtense! Mar 19 2011, 5:12am replied:

First of all we haven't been contacted by jack thompson. we have however been contacted by concerned parents, relatives and those that went to these schools.

We have 12,000+ mods listed in the database, and in 8 years this is the only 1 that has ever caused such controversy. So no we wont be removing any others. We have attempted to contact this team to discuss their mod, their aims and have received no response.

I'm willing to admit if we've made a mistake, so if a creator of this mod wants to get in touch I encourage them too.

+19 votes   reply to comment
ProspectGames
ProspectGames Mar 19 2011, 7:50am replied:

"So no we wont be removing any others"

As soon as you remove one mod over controversy you are liable to do it again. I support your right to control content on your website, but you lose the trust of the people who use and support the site with actions like this.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Slevo
Slevo Mar 19 2011, 8:06am buried:

(buried)

I wont be surprised to see grand theft auto future releases to be ceased. This game can now be used as an example of what is right and what is wrong.

In the end this action wont be seen as the single Action of a crackhead Intense! it will be seen as the Action of the Gaming Community......

Considering Moddb is the home for Modder's you have spoken FOR EVERYONE..... i don't think you understand what you have done yet. This is not a small thing

-14 votes     reply to comment
ProspectGames
ProspectGames Mar 19 2011, 8:19am replied:

"We have attempted to contact this team to discuss their mod, their aims and have received no response."

Did you do this before or after removing it from the site?

+1 vote     reply to comment
johntis
johntis Mar 19 2011, 11:06am buried:

(buried)

And with this, i lost all respect for moddb...

-9 votes     reply to comment
Pawnstick
Pawnstick Mar 19 2011, 12:48pm replied:

You know why you haven't received any response? Because you haven't sent an email yet, *******.

-1 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 1:32pm replied:

Or, you could have deleted the e-mail and lied to get yourself more publicity.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Sn1pe
Sn1pe Mar 19 2011, 1:44pm replied:

They claim to have contacted the team but I don't recall getting any emails touching this matter.

-2 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 2:19pm replied:

It doesn't matter if you get an e-mail or not. ModDB wins you loose.

+4 votes     reply to comment
JakeyKakes
JakeyKakes Mar 19 2011, 10:55pm replied:

why would he delete his email? is one of us going to check it?

+1 vote     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 20 2011, 12:08am replied:

Why would it be an e-mail in the first place? There are methods of contact beyond e-mail.

+2 votes     reply to comment
Tatsur0
Tatsur0 Mar 19 2011, 5:10am says:

Intense you do sorta contradict yourself in the post but I think I understand that you're saying, that this is more than threats and free speech. It's easy to argue for free speech but let's be honest, we have to draw the line somewhere or we end up with rape, child pornography, and murdered children. Obviously these aren't games we want our kids playing but in what way would those games/material be suitable for adults either? Should we support films, music, any other form of "art"/media that promotes it?

Again, a line must be drawn. What's sad is that it should be us the developers who are doing so and not the media who are just out for a story which does eventually reach the rest of us.

+14 votes     reply to comment
ProspectGames
ProspectGames Mar 19 2011, 7:53am replied:

"in what way would those games/material be suitable for adults either?"

I am an adult who can decide what is an isn't appropriate for myself. If I am not harming anyone by choosing to experience these things what right do you have to tell me otherwise? Humans are not childish cattle who need to be told what to do on every aspect of their lives.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Slevo
Slevo Mar 19 2011, 8:20am buried:

(buried)

Tatsur -_- do you know what freedom of speech means? you obviously do not... If freedom of speech exists it means you can SAY what ever you want to say.

you can do anything you want to do (AS LONG as its within the laws of where you live,,, And its common courtesy to respect other peoples wishes while doing so).. This means that people that want to see this mod have the freedom of speech to do so.

and people that don't want to see this mod Have the freedom of speech to do so. No one forces them with a stick and tell them to. They do it them self

Mod db obviously does not believe in freedom of speech because its telling a Mod which is receiving publicity to stop just because other people are telling them to stop.

It would of been OK for Mod db to stop the mod when they registered it but they did not they Accepted it and Agreed this is good enough content and a good concept for Mod db

All this is, Is Attention seeking to be Heard Mod db just wants to be on the paper. They couldn't give 2 ***** about the actual Game developing Community

-19 votes     reply to comment
Cervi_Messias
Cervi_Messias Mar 19 2011, 3:31pm replied:

humans are basically cattle Andrew_Bennison, and the line does need to be drawn, not because a god or a political leader says so but because the majority of people say so.

0 votes     reply to comment
JakeyKakes
JakeyKakes Mar 19 2011, 11:50pm replied:

You could illustrate your discontent for, or distance yourself from, a mod or game without the removal of. Why not just say: "School Shooter, the terrible mod, step right up and post your mostly irrelevant thoughts here." instead?

But seriously, why not just critique it. i mean i get that people, dumb people, could misunderstand your having it, and thus associate you with it, but thats the point... to show that just because you have it you don't necessarily have agree with it. And if someone, even then, is still stupid enough to sling mud at you for having it, then they're obviously not worth your time, your consideration, or your actions.

you are this massive online entity, if someone is going to take the time to challenge you, they should at least have an opinion to discuss. it'd just be nice to see your critique of it, i'd be interesting. and, also, no infringement on free speech, i think, at all.

(an opinion other than the decision that this mod is unfit for Your site i mean.)

+2 votes     reply to comment
AndY
AndY Mar 19 2011, 1:14pm replied:

What bothers me the most about this situation is that Desura's publicized "edge" over the competition is that it's "Developer driven, Community run" ( Desura.com ), and I quote:

"We are not some mysterious editor in an ivory tower controlling content - it's anybody who can put pen to paper."

ModDB's actions today seem to have disproved that. Shouldn't ModDB let the community decide what's worth playing and what isn't? Shouldn't we be treated as grownups, capable of deciding for ourselves what's right and what's wrong?

What ModDB could do is add a content rating (à la ESRB) or just a warning to parents that content isn't rated. The rest should be entirely up to us.

@Tatsuro You speak of a line, but why should they be the ones drawing it for us? As long as the contents aren't illegal (child pornography is, slaughtering a bunch of simulated people of any age isn't - last I checked), they shouldn't be intervening at all.

You can say that this is just one special case, but once it's been done, you've basically opened the door for it to happen again.


In closing, did everyone already forget Danny Ledonne's similarly-themed RPG? En.wikipedia.org

+5 votes     reply to comment
treat
treat Mar 19 2011, 2:37pm replied:

I honestly don't understand how everyone is jumping on this "first step towards Nazi Germany" train, here. The mod was in poor taste, designed to stir the pot, and was clearly not a legitimate effort to do anything *except* appeal to the temperaments of reactionaries. Is this the image of games you'd like to perpetuate? Would you rather controversial games receive more attention than well-designed ones? Of course not.

When your freedom of expression tarnishes the image of a separate entity by association, that entity has the right to disown you and your so-called expression. INtense made the best possible choice for the ModDB community as a whole, it'd be nice if more people would recognize that.

+5 votes     reply to comment
moppop
moppop Mar 19 2011, 3:33pm replied:

Danny Ledonne put his name out there; he as an individual stood behind his work. None of the developers wanted to do that. They were all content on being truly "Anonymous" They didn't want their identity attached to it in any form.

Anyone who actually cares about the development of School Shooter shouldn't care what ModDB does. It's not censorship; it's not preventing people from accessing Checkboard Studios; it's not preventing them from doing their own work; ModDB is simply saying, "Not here on my webspace." No censorship; no suppression. It is ModDB looking out for ModDB and Intense made no bones about that; he doesn't want this site to get mixed up with it; you can either agree to that and stay on ModDB, or you can leave a promote your projects via another avenue. I have no doubts that the response weighed heavily on Intense and ModDB's mind; they made up their minds, now you should make up yours.

+6 votes     reply to comment
holdenmcclure
holdenmcclure Mar 19 2011, 5:18am says:

INtense! you misunderstand, it wasn't ModDB who was contacted by Jack Thompson, it was Gabe Newell himself:
Escapistmagazine.com

His claims are that all shooter games are a training simulator for actual violent acts, one of his examples claims that Half Life was responsible for a school shooting in Germany.

There are a lot of people watching this go down and thus your actions have a huge impact on the way people perceive this issue. You claim that you're protecting the social outlook of ModDB users which is quite honestly a pathetic and meager excuse at best for contradicting your philosophy of free speech. The way the opposition perceives School Shooter mod is that it influences crime, and by caving to their demands you are acknowledging that assertion directly or not, and whatever you say in this article isn't going to change that.

+10 votes     reply to comment
INtense! Author
INtense! Mar 19 2011, 5:30am replied:

That is unfortunate, as we do not share jack's views and we are not trying to make a statement. It is the non-gaming press that like Jack want sensationalist headlines and instead of asking why the creator wants to make a controversial mod, they post headlines like "gamers shoot up schools" which is unfair and spreading misinformation. Our actions are attempting to minimize this

+8 votes   reply to comment
holdenmcclure
holdenmcclure Mar 19 2011, 5:34am replied:

Honestly INtense you should edit this article in a manner that doesn't insult our intelligence. It's pretty much 'we support freedom of speech in most cases but right now we're trying to cover our ***** from media interpretation even if it means harming the image of gaming as a medium in the process.', because that's exactly what it is.

-3 votes     reply to comment
Slevo
Slevo Mar 19 2011, 8:28am buried:

(buried)

seriously intense STFU you just want to be acknowledged as the people that took action. In the end that will have a bigger publicity attraction then just some crappy ******* of a data base that game developers go to and post their games we don't come here to be judged by you, Your out of line

-17 votes     reply to comment
Swaggletooth
Swaggletooth Mar 19 2011, 8:40am replied:

"we don't come here to be judged by you"

It's his website so he can do what he wants. Quite honestly I think it's a shame standards aren't in place for Moddb, the last few years have seen some really sub par mods thrown up here (many of which rarely go farther than MS Paint edited skins).

It would be good to see the bar raised, or at least have some sort of spotlight system to highlight the truly praiseworthy mods.

+5 votes     reply to comment
Slevo
Slevo Mar 19 2011, 9:22am buried:

(buried)

so different is not good? really we are artists and what is normally different and has determination to be different is encouraged. If you don't understand this then your in the wrong place, you will never be a decent game developer

-12 votes     reply to comment
Cervi_Messias
Cervi_Messias Mar 19 2011, 3:35pm replied:

its his ******* website so show some damn respect you *******. Thats freedom of speech, he has a right to decide what is on HIS website now if you dont like it start your own database. All of you are out of line cuz he owns the site he makes the rules.

+4 votes     reply to comment
Panzert
Panzert Mar 19 2011, 11:35am replied:

I disagree'd with you initially intense, but now i think i see your point.

+3 votes     reply to comment
Tatsur0
Tatsur0 Mar 19 2011, 5:32am replied:

Again read my comments above as I think they make clear as to the reasons behind the removal imho and validate it completely.

+5 votes     reply to comment
holdenmcclure
holdenmcclure Mar 19 2011, 5:49am replied:

snip

-1 votes     reply to comment
cW#Ravenblood
cW#Ravenblood Mar 19 2011, 8:01am replied:

I'm German and I know that there was no school shooting where Half Life wad involved. It was only found by guy who did this school shooting.
I think DesuraNet made a good desicion to deleate or close this mod. First, exactly those mods/games were used to forbid fps or in general violent games because they make people aggressive, secondly I think that we need mods with some intellectual part, not ones were you just shoot on humans which run away, humans were in that case not showed as human beeings, you have more the feeling that they are things, not humans. In my opinion thats inhuman. I would have no Problem if the shooting gets discussed inside the mod, why its bad etc, but thats useless shooting at students. A usefull mod could have a rampage first and than have a look back shy this and in generall why all rampages happen.

+6 votes     reply to comment
DeadSomething
DeadSomething Mar 19 2011, 9:00am replied:

first of all: first person shooters dont make aggressive. its the people who already are aggressive and need a way to let out their aggressions.
if we wouldnt have any socker, football or any such games, people would have been much more aggressive, because they need it to let out some aggression.
without those FPS games, there would be even more **** going on.
also, military specialists confirmed, that you cant in any way learn to use a weapon by playing Counterstrike.

0 votes     reply to comment
cW#Ravenblood
cW#Ravenblood Mar 19 2011, 9:34am replied:

I said that the people take exactly those shooters to say that they make aggressive, I dont say that they do.

+8 votes     reply to comment
DeadSomething
DeadSomething Mar 19 2011, 5:56pm replied:

ok, send me that text.
maybe i'm being sarcastic, but after all i have read forum postings and his last uploaded video (in which he explains why) from one of those who ran amok and it has nothing to do with the games.
when a person runs amok, in most cases they have been treated like **** or even been threatened or beaten up by their classmates before.
i have had some pretty bad experiences in school and teachers wont help in any situation, so thats my explanation to why they also shoot at teachers.
being mobbed for years can ruin your whole life and many would rather run amok to take revenge and kill themselves after that, instead of only committing suicide. if you want, i can send you links to those files i've seen. its first hand documentation - unlike what you can get from the official media, which is controlled by our politicians.

+1 vote     reply to comment
DeadSomething
DeadSomething Mar 19 2011, 8:55am replied:

here in germany we had many political discussions after some shool shootings. now they really wanted to make all FPS games illegal.
just because 2 of 3 people who ran amok had "CounterStrike" installed on their PCs.
Serious, lets forbid bread, 99% of all people in the world who ran amok have eaten bread that day!

and for those people who protested against the mod: you really shouldnt have given them any square-centimeter of ground. now that they have "won" one little battle, they think they can win the war.

0 votes     reply to comment
cW#Ravenblood
cW#Ravenblood Mar 19 2011, 9:35am replied:

Your argumentation is totaly sh*t, for school I've written a text, if you're german I send it to you and you than you know how to argue.

+6 votes     reply to comment
w0dk4
w0dk4 Mar 19 2011, 10:49am replied:

You know, after seeing **** like this mod posted here, I actually UNDERSTAND german politicians demanding a ban on violent video games.

This just portrays how much of a damage this troll mod is on both an ethical level and the video game reputation as a whole.

+4 votes     reply to comment
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