...Not anymore.
Players in horror games commonly try to avoid the big enemies and try to get into safe-spots where they can't be attacked. Sometimes this is on a box or in a corner, sometimes this is even on the monsters head. Source mods suffer from this to an even greater extent than other games given the zombies inability to get to a player on top of anything even slightly out of reach.
After breaking our heads thinking about a way to deal with this problem and deciding it was best not to have all objects have invisible walls around them so players can't get on top of them - we came up with a solution that our programmer coded. The newly coded feature is that if the enemies can not reach the player but can see him camping in one spot above their reach they will summon a whirlwind of blades. These blades do a significant amount of damage to tell the player to get off the box or the monsters head and to have them prefer fighting face-to-face with them.
We know some cowards will likely not enjoy this feature but we are glad to have come up with a solution to be able to properly balance our mod :). We can now rely on players fighting the monsters and finishing them off or facing a swift death if they attempt to out-smart them.
Thanks for checking out our news update, and as always: if you like what you see, please continue watching Grey, and do not hesitate to share your thoughts with us.
Your guys are genius!
Kinda reminds of ResEvil4, where you constantly have to run around while frantically dodging those gargantuas or something... or maybe dodging lol.
Sounds awesome though, great way to get them for being campers, should also make the player think a bit more while playing it.
Not gonna lie. This idea sounds terrible and not fitting in the least. A better idea would be to have players slide off anything they jump on quickly. Problem solved.
I have to disagree, what happens if there's a map or a part of a map that requires you to jump around or on top of boxes to get to a certain point. Your idea is plausible but most likely the developers have made maps like that, and would require them to remake or adjust them. Their method on the other hand can be tested easily and would make the player create more tactics depending on how many attacks the bosses have making a more unique mod.
Edit: Also I would like to say its a common trick developers use to make it harder for the player so they cant exploit glitches, Example how a swordman charges at you but you jump on a box.. Instead making it unethical of you slipping off, he would just pull out a bow, aim, and shoot.
Except the fact that the monsters will fling "blades" at you even if you're platforming on a certain part of the game. They haven't even addressed that problem. Which they surely are aware of. The simple thing to do is to just not have monsters in areas with puzzles like that and such. So players don't have any way or reason to hide at these parts.. Which they usually don't do in games anyway because players do that!
Didn't the Dead Space team figure this out by making them crawl through vents? You can probably come up with a similar trick to allow the monsters to get within melee range. But what I want to say is that, just because developers like THQ, or some other big gaming company couldn't figure it out doesn't mean that modders can't, the most ingenious designs have come from mods and indies, which almost make big-time developers look lame and incompetent. @CyberNinja, There is really no problem with being shot at while platforming, depending on how there platforming works, your still able to move around and most likely dodge it. + The game will seem to bland if its (Platforming, Monsters, Puzzles, Mosters, Puzzles, Platforming) Sometimes you have to mix it up.
The blades are designed as an anti camp tool, they're not designed to be "dodge[d]"
I am more in favor of them adding a climbing mechanic to the enemies and/or giving them a real ranged weapon instead of poof instant damage from magic blades.
While I am one of those people that like to kill as much of the enemies as possible, this solution given to those who don't seems a bit lazy to me.
Problem not solved. Constantly sliding off of objects that the player jumps on would be irritating. Constantly being barraged by a ton of razor blades everytime the player tries to avoid an enemy like a sissy would be challenging.
This is nice idea, but won't it force the player to fight every monster that sees you?
You could always run
I would suggest(if possible) something based on centripetal force: When player is beyond range of attack, then monster would perform static animation and draw/pull the target to its range by invisible force or something...
Then on the other hand, that will be forcing player to fight the monster.
This could be done in short brakes to made it possible for escape.
Then it would be too easy to escape single monster, or too impossible to escape a horde. So in my mind (to make every monster with unique strategy of fighting) it could be added to tougher enemies.
That maybe made the game slightly more challenging.
Of course you can run if you want.
Is there any kind of magic in this mod? If not the "summons a wirlwind of blades" Seems a little bit to much. It's a great idea though.
I have my own idea. If the player is "camping" next to an enemy the monster or whatever it is can make a scream that makes the players blood to freeze and take some damage for being frightened.
And with my idea you can use a new sound that could really scare the one who plays this mod. The first times it happens it will be a real surprise to the player. :)
How is this less magic than whirlwind of blades?
Killing Floor for the win!
To a certain extent, I have to agree with CyberNinja, I dont think its an especially brilliant idea. It doesnt really sound like it fits with the theme, though seeing as Ive obviously never played it, I suppose my judgment isnt really accurate. It presents an interesting new gameplay element, which will definately add to the theme, but maybe other alternatives of the same nature should be considered first :l ?
to understand the whirlwind of blades, we have to consider their context in the mod. maybe blades make sense in the story or the theme of the monsters. we would have to wait until we saw the game to really decide whether a whirlwind of blades would not be out of place. I think the tougher thing would be to ensure that the average player KNOWS that a whirlwind of blades is attacking the player because he is trying to glitch the game by standing out of the monster's reach.
Another questions: How specific is the system? Let's say there is an open area with a high ledge. If the player is up on the high ledge and the monster is below, will the monster trigger the blades? Or will the monster try to path-find his way up to the ledge to meet the player?
Finally, I want to see razor-bloodied arms on the player if this happens to him.
This sounds plasubable, but what about if you are on a overhead ramp, and the enmeys are below you? Wouldnt they start shooting you with their blades? Im thinking it could really ruin the flow if used wrong because if the player is ever above the enemies they will most likely use the blades would they not>?
Yes, due to the nature of the system it has incredi-tastic potential to glitch the **** out XD
No, not really. Read my other comments.
lol why'd u comment on all his stuff? XD jk, just trying to be funny :P
What exactly are the conditions that trigger this "whirlwind of blades"? Do enemies do it every single time the player quickly climbs on top of something to avoid an attack? If so that would be extremely annoying, because it pretty much forces the player to take damage from enemy attacks. Is it an anti-camping feature? How long does it take for enemies to use this attack?
We just want to prevent the player from jumping on boxes and shoot down enemies from there. We don't force anyone to a bloody melee fight, you can still run around, jump on things for 1-2 sec or just jump over tables or chairs to gain some breath room, etc.
You're going to need more time than that. I'm sure we're all familiar with the source physics engine; it can be extremely easy to get yourself stuck on either the map or a prop. And how about long jumps: if the player is in the air for three to five seconds (easily do-able) the attack triggers and wrecks the game. I'm not trying to troll or anything retarded like that, I just think the idea is seriously flawed and should be removed and replaced with a better system.
You seem to be under the impression that this system was made with countless bugs. It's really not nearly as buggy as you're making it out to be.
Your idea is really great, I personally will be ******** my pants when playing the game because I usually jump on everything I see (lol), but I also think that the idea Eoks gave is really great, it would open more possibilities in making you face monsters, or make it harder to run around, forcing you to actually fight enemies.
This will increase the frighting effect on the player.
Real horror can be achiever with darkness, creepy sounds, atmosphere, weak weapons, low ammo (or no weapons at all), low maximum health, resistant enemies, high damage causing enemies e.t.s., or hard game-play.
I have played Afraid of Monsters. The hard game-play was that what makes your adrenaline rise. And the high adrenaline level makes the scary effects become stronger.
scarier = awesomer
Want to see how it works =/
Am I the only person thinking give the zombies a jump animation then? Code them so they can climb on all objects... or is that just crazy talk?
I think it would work well, but obviously not everything can jump. So for the faster enemies it sounds great.
How about just a ranged attack, like, oh I dunno a really long tongue with spiky toothy bits on the end of it. What I'm foreseeing is a whole metric fuckton of glitches involving monsters maybe not getting to the player in time and the blade attack triggering, etc. While I'm sure it looked like a good idea, you need to rethink it before it becomes an integral part of the game and goes seriously wrong. Yes it's an easy out, but it's not worth the potential headaches later.
if it worked like a ranged attack but is only triggered when i.e. "standing on some box" it would raise the question: why don't they attack with it in the first place.
If it where like an environmental spell or curse it would require some explanation.
for example: if it were introduced as some sort of radarlike magic, that tracks down intruders/humans/whatever and tries to eliminate them trough telekenitic flying razors, that you can avoid by staying close to the ground it would make a bit more sense and also keeps away the feeling that the game is "cheaply cheating" in a sense.
hope you understand and might even feel enlightened.
Btw: i LOVE the idea of flying razors attacking you and it should be emplemented in the game one way or another!
While you have raised a good point, said good point still applies to flying razors as well. And the issue still remains that the system due to its very nature is extremely susceptible to glitches.
Why would this be susceptible to so many bugs and glitches? As I said in another comment you appear to be under the impression that this is just going to have countless bugs that I never fixed or bothered testing. A monster isn't going to attempt to hit a player with blades when he is far above the zombie Z-height wise for an example.
No system is entirely flawless even if it has no glitches, and unless you can show and prove to me that the system is glitch free, I will continue to believe it is a mistake. I'm not trying to troll or be disrespectful, I think the system would be a great idea if it works 100% glitch free, but from a programming standpoint (yes, I have taken a few of those courses) it is great opportunity for glitches to occur. Also I'm not trying to attack anybody's programming skills, in fact if this is pulled off successfully then it will be really great. The problem is, there hasn't been a whole lot of information released about the system, hence my skepticism. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be an *******.
Yeah i know what u mean. Ia little bit of programming too, and it's unfortunate cuz they haven't released more info, so you've got a good point. mod still looks awesome tho. just sayin.
Yeah, It would be great if they would tell us more than "It's k guys everything will work fine!" As much as I like how this mod is going so far, this newest idea sounds like a mistake. :(
ya they're being a bunch of ****** retards about it lol. game looks cool and all but this new idea is total dumbshittery, and i think it sucks elephant *****.
Excuse me, let's be nice to the developers. Also, it's a mod not a game. Please don't support me if you're going to be a total ******* like that.
stfu *******. go get a life.
That doesn't even deserve a reply.
Fantastic :>
I myself always feel the need to cleanse the entire map of enemies before moving on XD
why not rather find a way for zombies or monsters to be able to reach them without using super magic attacks. Say being able to attack upwards?
Good idea, just shift the cone of hurt or whatever it is in the source engine upwards by 70-90 degrees or so.
Alright, so i see what you guys are going for with that, me being an avid player and great fan of the penumbra series, realize that hiding from an enemy is easier than killing it in a horror game! But the blades idea is something that i dont think fits very well, because unless that particular monster is made of blades or something, why would it have such an ability? and if players want to hide from ememies other than killing them, why not give them that option? it is, in fact, a tactic! I think that instead of punishing the player for hiding, you should reward the player for killing an enemy face to face, ex. extra drops, adrenaline type boost making the player run faster. things like that. But of course i will play this mod no matter what! and its looking good guys!
Interesting idea, reward good behaviour rather than punishing bad behaviour...Clever. :)
lol this idea sounds awesome :D i totally agree
- You can still run away from enemies, the blades do damage in a 10~ yard sphere.
- They're always looking for a proper path to the player, they're not attack with this because of range, jumping, etc
- If you just jump over a hole you probably get 1 tick from the damage, but then it can't reach you because of the 10~ yard limit.
- This feature made for prevent player from camping like in AOM:DC, where you jumping on props and npc heads all the time.
Anyway thanks for the comments and bug ideas guys, we'll check and fix all those bugs you said above. : )