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How I think a recreation of the Progenitors should be in the way that they'll keep being mysterious and still look good and according to my opinion of staying true to them as much as possible.

Posted by Raygoza on Sep 22nd, 2012

There are 4 mods which I know have some attempt in actually recreating them in their own way excluding HWU because they seem tp just have a bunch of ships together to fill out the gaps and two different Keepers, it's all just strangest o me except for the Big Mothership and the original Progenitor units.

To mention some of these 4 mods

Path to Victory (PTV) (My favorite HW2 mod so far, their Progenitors are very fun to play but is not true to how they should be, besides it has a lot more than just the Progenitor, which adds up to why I love that mod.

Dark Wars (which has it's own kind of Progenitors, the dark ones, based on PTV and is a good mod)

HW2 Factionized A very old mod and I really dislike the Progenitors in that mod as it's entirely wrong if I may interpret it like that, there are so many different kinds of ship one of them actually looking like two Movers on each side of a Keeper, it's just wrong, however some of their other stuff are better like their Beast race has some good graphics.

FX - Commander I like the Progenitors in that mod a bit but they are too different from what I expect them to be like according to my opinion, also has a lot of added ships.

The HW2 Evolution mod (There is no download but there are a bunch of pictures to see), It's probably good but it's not that true to the real Progenitors considering all that has been added.

There are probably a few more mods which I wont take up.
To Customize how I think the Progenitors should be involves in not adding too many more ships.
Lets start to see what they have originally

Drone - Their weakest units which is still pretty strong, is Corvette classed and pretty durable, single ships, no squads.

Mover - Tougher Progenitor Drone which damages less than an Hiigaran attack bomber but has a lot more health, seems to work best as a support unit, also seems capable of towing things which in the mod PTV it has been made possible

Keeper - A very strong destroyer classed vessel and deals a lot of damage over time as it's main laser weapons keep a steady Ion beam towards it's target dealing lots of damage, besides it's also very durable, seems to have an automatic shield on several parts of it, when attacked the damaged area seems to activate it's shield, the Keeper also has a Phase out ability which seems to work like they pase out of the current dimension and getting back at more Health. It launched Drones and it's logical to assume it builds them too, if a Mover fit in the launching bay it can probably build them as well.

Dreadnought - We first saw it when the Hiigarans wanted an edge over the Vaygr by aquiring a Progenitor Dreadnought, it's super capitalship classed, the same ship calss of BC. It's notably larger than a Keeper but compared to it it was ridiculously weak, as the Hiigarans said that they never got all the ship's systems online, even the damage output was very low, imagine how strong a true Dreadnought would be when belonged by the Progenitors in full efficiency, compare the Keepers power in it's size in what the dread would have, it's power source is definitely a lot stronger and bigger than a Keepers for sure, also Considering how durable a Keeper is imagine how much Health a Progenitor Dreadnought would be when all hull related systems are online.

Sajuuk - He who's hand shapes what it is, that really chills me if you'd imagine how strong Sajuuk would be compared to how powerful a small Keeper is for it's size, besides Sajuuk only seem to have one weapon, ifa Dread would be very powerful, a Sajuuk would have enough power to probably destroy a small moon, probably in game terms being able to deal enough damage to Kill two Vaygr shipyards with full armor with a single attack, it'll be way too overpowered which is why it's description fits it.

Those were all the original ships and my comment on how strong they should be (about those ships which we never saw being used by the progenitors themselves.
I also noticed that the Hiigaran tech tree has a Mover Health downgrader which is on automatically and makes it have 1000 hit points instead of 5000 if I remember right, everything else seems to be the same except for the engine trail.

The mod Homeworld Evolution mod has some very good things, as their real mothership was destroyed like 10.000 years ago and it's parts have been drifting apart since then but are still functional for themselves, it would be logical if some of those would be used to make some production buildings, The best sugestion I have is the Engineering part of the ship, the part that housed the Dread, this mod has made it very cool and Progenitor capitalships can actually be built from it's construction bay.
Moddb.com
That hulk could be put into the Mothership role because of what it's able to do.
But you may not want a large hulk to start with or even have it as a Progenitor capitalship builder.

You would still probably want something smaller and allow Progenitor ships arrive from Hyperspace, in that case it could be made pretty much like the Path to Victory mod when it was in it's 0.04 version (I like many things of that version as well)
In the mod page it doesn't date back to it but don't worry, I have uploaded it on my account and it's still Molulu's work with no changes by anyone else.
Moddb.com

Things I really liked with this version are The Devastator "Fighter", The Drone which is called Shifler, the Mover but I like it's new ability of towing which doesn't date back that far, The way you play in that version, the old Sleeper which is a mysterious unit, I also liked their utility ships from that version as well as the new power generators, there could be a balance found between them to allow them to coo exist.
The Dreadnought Module lot and buildable weapon system which you also could build a small production bay instead in.
The Phase Shields from that version though I'd like to see an extended duration.
The thing I love most in that version and that is the hyperspace gate effect, it looks so much better than in anywhere else, besides the ships are perfectly timed please take a look at it when it builds a Keeper or something else, that's how I want it to be and not like in newer versions of the gate and it's effect.

About Frigates, we all know that they never really had any hough several mods have made their own, PTV has 3, those are the Deceiver, the Hunter and the Seeker.

The Deceiver being of good tactical use because it has two abilities, when it is capturing you also get resources, it also has the ability nano swarm which makes it's attack deal area EMP.
The Hunter being much like an Ion canon Frigate which can heal while cloaked
The Seeker which fires something like missiles and seems to have the same role as the Vaygr Heavy Missile Frigate, maybe it would have been better if it would have the role of a Torpedo Frigate + being effective against fighters.
The Progenitors are a race of few ships where their larger ships rely more on beam weapon and their smallers on strong energy firing weapons. Three Frigates I don't think should be added as that would add too many ships if you want to stay true to the more or less. Maybe the Hunter Frigate is too much, I find the Seeker and the Deceiver being pretty useful and don't seem to go against the race and their design is right I guess.

Capital ships
Keeper, Sleeper and Dreadnought.
The Keeper from PTV is fun though I don't like some of it's abilities, In version 0.04 you were able to activate the Keeper's phase shield which covered the entire ship, I'd like to have that shield but also have the new shield which is automatic and only activates it in an exposed area which could be useful in smaller fights and rushes, activating the entire field when in a heavy fight.
The Sleeper, I find the new Sleeper being too much besides when it builds ships they like Arrive from it's small ring much like a portal which I find inappropriate as frigates seem to arrive from it as well, larger ship built by the sleeper arrives trough HS next to it.
Anyway I prefer the old Sleeper which looks mysterious, the new Sleeper's lockdown ability could be added which would add up to the Sleeper's mystery.
The Dreadnought in the 0.04 version of the mod you can decide to build a plasma canon or an Ion bank or a construction system.
The Ion bank or whatever it was called adds an Ion beam weapon to it which increases it's danage output.
The Plasma canon has an EMP effect which disables ships for a moment and maybe dealing some damage as well.
The contruction system makes it able to build All small crafts of it's race. from the Devastator to the Mover (Devastator being the fighter in the Corvette tab).
Also I like the way in which it's made to use power generators to increase it's damage output against everything.

The Hyperspace Gate which is a smaller version of the Balcora gate, it looks very good and in the version 0.04 th effect is soo nice and the timing of units coming out of it is perfect unlike every new version of that mod and any mod that I've seen which uses this gate because they all use the new version of it which has the effect badly timed with when the ship will arrive. Anyway I suggest it to have three modules consisting of the things that powered the Balcora gate which the Vaygr tried to destroy to prevent the Hiigarans fro being able to use the gate.
The Hyperspace gate should be able to Hyperspace on it's own and be able to rebuild the quantum ring if it's destroyed, one of the modules which are Progenitor power generators could be something that speeds up the building of ship from the gate, the second one could be a Hyperspace inhibitor generator and the third one could be something that makes hyper-spacing from the gate area cheaper and if possible even making hyper-spacing to the gate area cheaper.

The Reaver ship however has nothing to do with how you think the Progenitors would be, it looks too complex while real progenitor design seems to be smooth and pure.
Besides it's abilities are not quite Progenitorish either and they don't need an extra capitalship.

Utility ships
I really like the new power generators but I don't believe any race should be powered by those only and I don't like the new system of each ship costing resources to keep operational which means that if you built your fleet you wont have any resources but if you don't build you'll have resources, besides power generators powering ships stop generating resources for the player it seems.
I like the power generators but I think a balance between them and resource gathering has to be found, I suggest the PTV 0.04 collector and "Mobile Raffinary" which I think was called Caretaker.
In the new PTV there's a ship called Sentinel which seems to be used like an offensive platform and the computer actually uses it when it strikes which I find strange as it really is a platform ship, I would prefer making it a platform located in the utlility tab and being able to move i several times, it would be useful for defending resource operations as generators wont be the primary income of resources but a help as well as a capitalship power enhancer when it's being used.

The last thing left is the Probe which I think should be a pretty fast thing, I also suggest the Sleeper to be able to make a sensor ping, every race should be able to do that as in some larger map you need to know where each big ship or thing is without actually having to look for it.

I actually succeeded in playing the 0.04 version of the mod in the H*A*C*S maps which became a pain to find the enemy.

Anyway I suggest the tech tree being very much like it was in the old version of the mod.
You start out with a Sleeper and a few Resource Gatherers.
A change I'd like to see is building generators first as that increase the effectiveness a lot and then a care taker and so on.
An other thing I liked with the 0.04 version is that once you get the Drone available you could finish a research which makes the Drone capable of acting like a bomber, besides this every real ship at least from Drone to Sajuuk could get phase shields though they have to be researched separately for each ship class.
While activated I suggest it lasting a while but the damage output should be lowered as the phase field practically makes the units invulnerable, not even Dreanought or Sajuuk phase arrays should be able to cause any damage while the field is up.
For Frigates I suggest the Deceiver and the Seeker, though about capturing enemy ships, I actually suggest that the captured ships should get improved as otherwise capturing enemy ships would be a performance loss when looking at the Fleet size.

The capturing could be a virus which takes over every computer system on board as well as pumping in lots of nanites to upgrade the ship to perform a lot better than the Hiigarans ever could, by adding Hull nanite repair, more efficient weapon systems and faster ships.

The Sleeper when it builds capital ships they should arrive by Hyperspace but take a longer time to build and the Sajuuk should not be buildable from the Sleeper, however when the Sleeper has finished building a Hyperspace gate it should also arrive by Hyperspace next to it but the Hyperspace gate I suggest should be able to build capitalships faster than the Sleeper, the Hyperspace gate shouldn't be able to build Utility or or Strike craft maybe friagates and definitely Capital ships as well as SAjuuk if it would exist.
Maybe my suggestion on how strong the Dreadnought and the Sajuuk are too far beyond reasonable limits as you'd like to have access to both ships without them ruining the game play or having by being too strong

This is what I think of what the Progenitors should be althought I don't have a very detailed description on how exactly but I guess you get the idea.
Research and stuff would have to be compared between the old version and the new version of the mod and every thing would have to carefully picked, at least everything that would be in use.
And if everyone would like them to have some kind of beam frigate this one could be cool
Moddb.com

These are all suggestions on how I'd like a Progenitor race to be built when not using Derelicts, the Hyperspace gate should be able to build an other Sleeper also.
About captured ships I suggest that captured beam firing ship should have their beams exchanged into the Keeper beam or having the Ion beam color changed into the progenitor beam color.
A preferable thing is that captured ships should get the progenitor ship colors as well.
Those colors being the Progenitor base color and their stripe color.
I base color in this case being the color all ships have, and the stripe color being the line of color the Progenitor ships has.

This page really show up things I've been mentioning
Forums.relicnews.com

Post comment Comments
Raygoza
Raygoza Sep 22 2012, 12:35pm says:

Basically greatily inspired by the 0.04 version of the mod, starting with the old Sleeper tech tree being very similar to the old version but having things added like power generators and those only being able to build a limited number of and they'll have to be combined with resource gathering to be on top efficiency.
Having the Ships Devastator, Drone, Seeker, Deceiver, Maybe an Ion kind of frigate, the Keeper, the Dreadnought Hyperspace Gate with it's old effect and effect taiming, probably Sajuuk and those ships not being as powerful as I mentioned in the start of this article because it seems too powerful.

Not starting the game with a Hyperspace gate because the Progenitors would never send something like that on it's own if you think about it, they are very territorial and seem to start defending a territory before they send in defenseless things like the Hyperspace gate.

As Progenitors are known to be very durable and strong they should perhaps not be able to choose a runtime but actually go on something in between, with research the Keeper ship will get as strong as it is in the campaign as well as developing the same durability for it as well as the other capitalships.
The Dreadnought Maybe getting twice the Hull points as the Keeper because of it's size or 1,5 times more because it's oversized energy source makes it a bit vulnerable as well as having the weapon powering on the outside.
Still because of it's size it should be more durable than a Keeper, because it has some less protected parts it wont get twice the durability but 1,5 seems logical and the Sleeper getting about the same amount as it is the starting ship.
According to what I have suggested they'll still be a mysterious race with still few ships but very powerful, slow to build and costly.

Being possible to compare it to the Protoss from SC, their units cost like twice as much as normal units and perform twice as good.

+1 vote     reply to comment
ignadtt
ignadtt Sep 24 2012, 6:08pm says:

u dont like to write

+1 vote     reply to comment
Hell_Diguner
Hell_Diguner Sep 25 2012, 7:08pm says:

Your article is moot. Modders will make whatever they want, and won't come looking for your opinion. Indeed, you'd be better off making your own mod with the Progenators as you describe them.

+2 votes     reply to comment
DarkSajuuk
DarkSajuuk Sep 27 2012, 6:59pm replied:

I so agree with you. Its not the fans or the watchers making mods its the modders, and they are free to make anything the way they want to.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Hell_Diguner
Hell_Diguner Oct 4 2012, 2:07am replied:

Creating a Progenator race as described in the article probably wouldn't be such a hard thing to do since most of the article is based on the Path to Victory mod. It should be simple to stip out what's unnecessary and then tweak a ton of ship files. Maybe not so easy to learn something about LUA and tweak the scripts PtV uses, but the whole thing wouldn't be all that hard.

+1 vote     reply to comment
Raygoza
Raygoza Oct 24 2012, 4:18pm says:

Guess you guys are right, True I never write articles and especially nott his long.
In any case It's only my opinion on how I think the Progenitors should be made to be made mysterious with all the knowledge I got about the "Progenitors" from the original and from a number of mods and I think some may find it interesting though perhaps a pain to get trough because of all the content.

Basically keeping them Mysterious, rational and powerful without getting an arsenal which is way too big or too similar to the normal races using content form already existing mods and several suggestions on how the race could be set up while keep being myestrious.

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