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this is directed to EA haters/Anti-EA people and any one willing to listen.

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Hello everybody!

I've been noticing lately a lot of EA haters loitering around CNC Paradise namely playmsbk. People like n5p29 have been asking them to stop but they haven't and i think it's time for someone to take a stand against they dumb-ass, immature, shit-brained children.

now don't get me wrong believing in something isn't a bad thing but most people know when they take it too far. i.e. making up lists of why EA sux or lists of make-believe or incredibly obscure ways to kill EA like getting some dead old greek to wish them luck... yeah, that makes sense.

Sometimes people do things like this for fun but it seems playmsbk BELIEVES what he's saying is true, that's taking it too far.

He believes he can rally the internet, like Lenin did with russia, under his banner and march on EA and kill them or something.


No body is going to follow some 13 year old dumb-ass like you, you have the intelligence of a jellyfish, and they don't have any fucking brains!

I remember Feillyne once told me he wouldn't allow me to be a moderator on the SAGE group because i was 14 (15 now) because i wasn't mature enough because i was young. I proved to him that i was mature enough and now you, playmsbk, come here and prove to the entire world that 13 year olds arn't mature enough to do shit.

Too sum this all up any EA hater i find i will report and i suggest anyone here who thinks logically should do the same. I don't want to force this upon everyone but people like playmsbk need to stop what their doing, not because it's harming EA but because they're setting up a bad name for the modding community as a whole.

Do we want to be remembered as CNC modders? or do we want to be remembered as some stupid, childish, immature 13 year old? The choice is yours...

Comments  (0 - 50 of 96)
TotallySnappy
TotallySnappy

^
So true, why do you think I gave up on the C&C 4 forums. Every 1 in 3 threads followed the lines of 'OMG ITZ TEH END OV CNC' or 'EA PAILZ'

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

LOL. I wonder if they ever played new games or they're just old C&C fanboys with no experience (with new C&C) whatsoever.

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Ka!
Ka!

It IS the end of C&C. It's gonna be a game which resembles C&C only in faction and game name. Nothing more. Come on.. Tib crystals falling from the sky? No bases? Bases and tiberium harvesting are what defined C&C...

I don't particularly hate EA, but damn man.. they're ******* up C&C.

Besides.. what happened to the gritty atmosphere that was there in TibSun? I know TibSun is a Westwood product, but atleast make the planet seem more deteriorated then it was back then. That's about C&C3 and up.

not to forget the cartoon-isch style currently in use on C&C4, that just shreds the serious feeling C&C always had. If I wanna see a catoon-isch tounge-in-cheek RTS I'll play RA.

Besides.. C&C isn't an RTS the way it is now, it's an RTT.

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qpac
qpac

That's exactly what I think! Some say that C&C3 was already inferior (which I don't agree with), but this is going to be a failure. In rewievs at least.

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open_sketchbook
open_sketchbook

So? Renegade was an FPS, that was even FARTHER removed. And don't talk to me about Sole Survivor.

Just watch. After C&C4 they'll do another RA game or Generals, and I bet it'll resemble the old games. What do you people have against experimenting?

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TotallySnappy
TotallySnappy

people are afraid of change, there's nothing else to it

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MrTimm
MrTimm

no look if you make a RTS stay with base building and resource and don't delete that and put a pop-cap in man it almost looks like halowars C&C4 if you ask me.

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Elementalist
Elementalist

... I have no idea what you just said.

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decnal
decnal

they makin a generals 2 i think n the new engine

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

@Ka!, don't try to prove that people criticising EA are old C&C fanboys. = /

B/c you seem to be one. = / Why? C&C3 has Tib chasms, Tib infested maps... remember Nod Australian mission when the Scrin shown up?
No? You just prove the validity of your arguments.

Only GDI troops look like UN soldiers/peacekeepers (and Nod Militia looks a bit out of place, which was improved in KW).
The rest is gloomy enough. Also somebody has forgotten about the main menu animation after starting the game?

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Ka!
Ka!

I'm not saying C&C3 was bad, besides, you only added to one of the arguments I brought. There were tiberium chasms, yes, but there's no tiberian lifeforms except for the scrin. I haven't seen any of that orangy weed stuff, no ion storms, nothing that showed the horrible nature of tiberium either. I don't see you 'remembering' any of those.

Sequels need to add to the game, not subtract. They should've build upon the terrain deformation that TibSun added imo, but I could play without.

C&C4 will be the end of the Tiberium story arc, why differ from the rest of the series now? It just doesn't make any logical sense.

They should just delete the C&C namebranding on this product if it stays the same. Simply because.. Well, it isn't C&C anymore.

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Ka!
Ka!

Sorry for the double post, but I'm not afraid of change like Trak888 said. I just dissagree with the way EA is handeling the development of C&C4, which should be the 'epic conclusion' of the tiberium story arc, which I find far less then epic in it's current state.

@Open_sketchbook: Yes, Renegade was an FPS, but I liked the game. It still had the C&C feel imo. The singleplayer sucked but the multiplayer was hella fun. Which is why I play Renegade X when I feel like it.

C&C3 still had that C&C feel, but C&C4 just doesn't. No tiberium harvesting, no basebuilding. Those 2 things defined C&C and you can't deny that. C&C has always been your avarage RTS, and it should stick with it, just add more features.

For the post above, I forgot to add that tiberium should be able to spread EVERYWHERE, not be limited to a certain radius.

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playmsbk
playmsbk

cnc3 was my first cnc. i never said i hated it. what won me over was the cnc feeling. i will agree with u about RA3 for the cartoony graphics but i ve played RA2 and only the units were like they got out of cartoons. most of u surely havent played TT and have no idea how its like. there is no cnc feeling and u said RA was ment to be cartoonish. the units look a bit more real than RA3's. there is tiberium dropping from the sky in a gdi like flying cocoon, CP, nod has more powerfull units than gdi, the only way to go is spamming. but there are good things. they have kept some reallity, crawlers die nicely, its a little fun to play, noobs have became powerfull. i see u guys hate me. i dont know why. its because i dont like EA or its because i dont like EA, i show it to u and i am 13 years old? more have posted against EA why did u focus on me? why dont u just kill me and end this?

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

There is a 'horrible' nature of Tib. Infantry die when they are in its proximity / on it.

I miss Ion Storms too, but I avoid hating anybody for cutting that feature out.

And now even more... I can't be angry for that... when you try to learn some programming languages, you'll see why.

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Ka!
Ka!

I know what modders can do, I've worked in some myself. They're not on my profile page though, was years ago back when HL1 was the hot ****. Assuming I don't know anything about what a modteam could do because there's no mods on my profile page is hillarious at best.

I'm not hating on anyone, I just dissagree with the way EA is going with the Tiberium Universe of C&C, atleast in C&C4. It makes no sense at all to remove gameplay elements from previous games UNLESS they had a negative effect on gameplay, which a lot of the elements in C&C TibSun didn't. Neither did basebuilding or harvesting in C&C3.

The horrible nature of tiberium has always been apparent by the point you described. The horrible nature of the stuff on the enviroment hasn't, that's what I miss in C&C3 and up. I'm not saying C&C3TW and KW were bad games, quite the opposite I pretty much liked them.

Your point is that modders can then change the game to their liking, which is true. But that shouldn't be necessary. I'm in the beta and I know that a majority of the people in the forums actually dissagree with the current system in place for the game. There's even been a couple of good threads about how they could compromise between the new system and the classic C&C system. This is one of the things a Beta is for.

The people who say that the development team behind C&C4 is doing what the gamers wants is at this point an invalid statement. Why? Because they simply aren't. for one, the cartoon-isch stye known from RA(3). I know they're using the RA3 engine, the graphics from that engine are crisp really. I'm just wondering why they didn't stick with the heavily modified W3D engine used for C&C3, nor did they add the gritty atmosphere that is shown in all of the C&C tiberium games.

Anyways.. I could keep going on and on, but let me ask you this feillyne: why did you not even touch most of the points I made? you barely scratch their surface.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

I have no time for that, and you have some pretty good points, which don't need to be commented.

The problem is that modding is for changing or bringing back what was taken. We should 1) let them do as they wish 2) beg for more moddable engine or more & better modding tools.

Also, mod teams should be more... fanatic, more enthusiastic.

This way we can have both 1) an original RTT and 2) very good RTS mods.
Yup, C&C4 has gone RA, although it isn't that visible or uncomfortably protruding. Nevertheless... they or WE should do something about it.

The actual product / modding isn't a problem. The problem is the general moddability of the final product. More and easier moddable engines/games live longer (vide C&C3, RA3 is hardly useful for TC mods).

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Ka!
Ka!

Atleast we got to an agreement about something there. I just dissagree that a game can only be good once it's modded. In it's current state, C&C4 is not a good game. I know it's a beta, but between the beta and the somewhat planned release date is very little time for adjustment of gameplay mechanics.

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Astor
Astor

I don't want to kill them or something like that, I only hate that they buy and closed Westwood, Pandemic etc... There are also some good games, like Generals, BFMEII,...

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Arteides
Arteides

I totaly agree with admiral-165

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Hellsevil22
Hellsevil22

I agree with admiral too. But EA did fudge some of CNC. At least they put intel explaining where the mechs went in CNC3. Bravo Admiral-165. :D

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AwsomeCake
AwsomeCake

an interesting text Admiral, i quite enjoyed reading it.

Also to the EA haters. Games making and publishing are just business, believe it or not their highest goal is not to please YOU, they make the games after what the general gamers want, whatever helps heighten profit and lower the costs they will do. That means for example shutting down Pandemic or Westwood that don't earn enough money. Or making the same darn sports game every single year, because so many people buy it every single time. If you don't like it, dont buy the games, your whining will not help topple EA or something.
That's just American imperialism and capitalism for ya.

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qpac
qpac

I agree with you. But I think you'll buy a game, if you're pleased with it, and thats why I don't understand EA sometimes (well, the games might be just overhyped).

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Totenkopf
Totenkopf

what AwsomeCake said - don't like it, don't buy it. like the idea, but don't like the content/execution - that's where the modding comes into play >:D
there are many reasons why people hate. some think corporations taking over companies kill everything that was good about them or are just pure evil. some like to defend their own investments (bought something. now it's the best thing ever, all other stuff is 'bad'). others are just trolling.
p.s. EA does good things too you know, but it's all about the money

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

It must be about the money. The other notion is: "being a soldier should end in a suicide". Yes, yes, companies not about money either 1) beg other people to donate or 2) end like suicides.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Besides, think of salaries as costs for the company.

Count monthly salary of a designer/programmer, multiply it by a number of months.

Even the low salary such as $1000-$2000 dollars end over $10000-$20000 a year. Then you must multiply by a WHOLE team of devs. Say 10-20 people, you have $100000-$400000 a year, at the very low number of people. To say nothing of many years.

Finally think of advertising costs, shipping games to shops, various other minor and major costs. You think it's a cheap business? No way.

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TotallySnappy
TotallySnappy

why do you think mods are usually so slow, because its not done for money hence money must be earned else where, reducing time working on the project.

So its
money money money = games or no money = end of commercial gaming

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Yup, maybe some day... you know... eww, dreams. = / Free intellectual property...

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qpac
qpac

I hate EA for what they've done to the C&C saga. But they may partially redeem themselves with the new MoH.
And expressing opinions is everyone's right! Even if you disagree with this guy, writing a whole article about dosen't seem to be a good idea. Unless that "kid" is that bad.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

LOL, I actually like "NEW" C&C, so I don't understand you at all. WTF "what they've done to C&C saga"? What have they done?! Refreshed it, and brought back from a 7-year break?!

And what's more, C&C3 and RA3 are quite nice... but as I said, it's a matter of taste. That DOESN'T mean they screwed something up. Not at all.

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qpac
qpac

You may found it surprising, but I have C&C3, and I like it. But Red Aert 3... it would be awesome WITHOUT Japan. What they're going to screw up, is C&C4. We shall see.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

WTF?! The Empire is the coolest faction so far. The transformation ability pwns all. Are you anti-Japanese/Manga/Anime person or something?

And NO, I'm not a Manga/Anime fan. I have watched very few movies/comics. And still, I consider this faction as the coolest one... they did best!

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qpac
qpac

As they're introduced, and the campaign storyline, that's what I don't like. And animes (because all of them (what I've seen so far) have featured kids, gathering cards (or other ****), and ridicoulus fighting. (I'm not against card collecting, but this combo just sucks.))

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

WTF?! You criticise Anime/Manga for cards and various other stuff completely unrelated to the actual arts? Well, you can bash also Western culture for their selling of everything.

It has NOTHING to do with the Empire of Rising Sun. I wonder why you don't like the storyline? You don't like Japanese culture/'religion' or spiritual path or such crazy campaign with an epic unit in it?

It's your taste. Yours. The actual matter and importance is to have it in HQ. Ideas are ideas.
Liking it or not doesn't influence the quality in any way. It's only your taste.

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playmsbk
playmsbk

i dont wait that all people come to me if i say "Follow me guys! We will **** up the internet and then lets ruin everything people believe about the modders." i am not the only 1 who hates ea around here or makes up lists on how to kil ea and posts anti-ea things u know. the only thing that makes u focus on me is my age and thats sad. most people on the net hate EA and i am just 1 of those millions of gamers who saw their beloved games get destroyed and hate EA. u say i am not mature cause i dont want to look only at the good side of things. if a nuke is fired and millions are killed what wil u say? "oh nice we had more light for a while". no i dont think so. u will say its a pity millions got killed.
its the same thing. but no. cause i am 13 years old u will just say i am imature.
and Lenin didnt **** up Russia. u are just stupid Americans brainwashed to follow 1 ideology and hate everyone else's. those who dont follow the same ideology as u are terrorists who want to kill everyone, dont believe to god and are evil. those great wealthed nations are the good guys and no matter what they use to acomplish their goal. they are allowed to kill anyone they see cause hes a "terrorist" a communist or the nation's enemy. Lenin got russia out of capitalistic and imperiaslistic **** and gave the light to russia to go forward. i hope u cought the meaning cause this wasnt only for defending Lenin's name.

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AwsomeCake
AwsomeCake

okay so first of all, the only thing that's sad is you hating EA because they want to earn money, grow up, unfortunately we don't live in this magical paradise where all people are good, generous and loving. The games industry is as i said earlier just a business and as long as people buy and enjoy EA games they will keep making them the way they do

And what the hell did the whole nuke thing have to do with this? i think you need to work on your metaphors.

Also as far as i saw he wasn't insulting Lenin in any way, he just used him as an example because he rallied an entire nation.

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playmsbk
playmsbk

i didnt say give the games for free or stop making them. they should make good games and sell them 60 Euros not 30 Euros and then making a sequel in 2 years which also isnt good to get the money they would earn if they made a game whose development took 3 years and its better and they sell it 60 euros. and i am not talking about cnc or pc games only. as u know consoles to the generation of PS2 and Xbox cant be modded. consoles just started to be moddable and are hard to be modded.

i mean that u MUST see mostly the bad side of things and this is an example of a very bad thing and that has only a bad side.

he didnt ruin russia. he saved it from imperialism.

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moretanks!!!
moretanks!!!

i'm just rather annoyed that there would be no singleplay in cnc4...
no base building, no tib, that's experimentation.

but no singleplay is forced use of an account which might not work.

note: however, this might be a new way of preventing pirating it - piratee games don't have mods, multiplay or movies, nor can it download patches, so if EA release a patch with singleplay , there will be NO pirating... hehe...

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Elementalist
Elementalist

I'm... Sorry? No 'singleplay'? Where exactly are you getting this from? It -says- on game info play the campaign solo.

Or are you talking about offline play?

Also, have you played World in Conflict? It doesn't have base building or resource harvesting, and it's -amazing-. I'm not in the beta, but those two things alone don't ruin my hopes for CNC4. :)

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Well, it ain't that bad. Ain't half as bad as they... 'underhype'/anti-hype it. It's just different. Very different. It's not a regular RTS anymore.

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Elementalist
Elementalist

Well, honestly, my first RTS that hooked me was Age of Empires (had never even heard of Command and Conquer till Tib Sun!), and considering how much that series has changed, I'm used to the idea of change. :P

And World in Conflict feels like an RTS to me, and as said, CNC4 sounds very similar. I guess like you said in response to someone else, it's all taste. ^-^

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qpac
qpac

WiC is not in the same category with C&C (yeah, I know that they're both RTS). I think.

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Ka!
Ka!

WiC is an RTT, not an RTS. C&C4 in it's current state is an RTT as well.

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Kerubim90
Kerubim90

Admiral-165, I admire your stand against this. I do not like EA either, but I don't go raging 24/7. Agreed that it's been going too far. And this really was worth the read. ;)

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AwsomeCake
AwsomeCake

the irony is that everyone is complaining about how EA are so unoriginal and how they always make the same game. But when they try do do something new with the C&C series they all want it to be just another remake of the previous games with a few updates.

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Admiral-165 Author
Admiral-165

Firstly, CNC4 won't be the end of CNC because it will suck, it's just a different game...

@Kerubim90 - yeah i think EA could've made some better choices but it's in human nature to make mistakes and to learn from them.

@moretanks!!! - nice name :D. yeah thats true, but if theg ame was perfect then what would modding be for?

@playmsbk - Firstly i was using you as an example because yor the most prominant example i could think of.

Secondly i'm not picking on you because your 13 (i'm only 1 and a half years older than you anyways) i was saying your creating a bad name for younger modders.

If you gave a **** and took one second to look at my profile you would see:
A) I'm 15 so i have no reason to call you out on being young
B) I'm from Canada not America
C) I have a communist poster and i'm getting an Ushanka for Christmas with a hammer and sickle emblem which means i'm not a capitalist. No where in my paragraph did i say Lenin was bad all i simply said was "He believes he can rally the internet, like Lenin did with russia" so simply i said Lenin rallied Russia. If you want to know a bit about me it's that i believe Capitalism is ruining the world.

I would like to know where you pulled these comments out of?
"those who dont follow the same ideology as u are terrorists"
"they are allowed to kill anyone they see cause hes a "terrorist" a communist or the nation's enemy."

seriously did you pull them out your ***? I mention Lenin and all of a sudden you're saying i'm a capitalistic, religious, facist or something?
I believe in communism not capitalism and facism and i'm an atheist.

You assume because i live in North Ameirca that i'm christian and capitalist. Okays so i'm gonna assum since you live in Greece you pray to Zeus and eat feta cheese with olives. I'm sure you don't do that (except maybe feta and olives cuz they're good) so it's a very unfair assumption.

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Admiral-165 Author
Admiral-165

sorry for double post but:

@Awesome Cake - i agree with the whole nuke thing, i could understand what he meant but it seemed out of place. ALso the whole originality thing is agree with, it's like "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Yeah, complaining about one thing, and when they start to make it as they wish, they complain that they do so... -_-

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Warlock_23
Warlock_23

Happily Agreed On Admiral!!!

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playmsbk
playmsbk

i am not a modder so the young modders cant be named badly because of me. u r from north america? i thought u were european because of the avatar. i still dont believe lenin ruined russia but i neither believe communism will save us. i didnt have the time to look at ur profile. i never look at other peoples profiles. i was a little angry and because i hate capitalists and catholics and americans i was talking too much and became unfair and i apologise for that. i am truly the most active anti-EAist. i would pick me if i were u. but as u see i never use other peoples nicks. but u were very offensive:
"u have the intelligence of a jellfish and they dont even have ******* brains" it was about me not all anti-EAists cause it followed this:
"No body is going to follow some 13 year old dumb-*** like you" it was about me and it doesnt show me its an example
but 1 thing that almost made me crazy:
"Sometimes people do things like this for fun but it seems playmsbk BELIEVES what he's saying is true, that's taking it too far" who told u i believe that we can kill ea by getting chuck norris or we fire a LTB to them (which doesnt exist) as for anti-EA ideology i believe ea is evil as u believe capitalism sucks. its the same thing.
" be remembered as some stupid, childish, immature 13 year old" am i all these?! ok i forget childish and immature but i am not stupid!

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Not a modder, not a mature person... nothing, nothing.

Modders know a bit of game development. Game design, a sample of rather end-user programming, and so on.
EA isn't just EA! EA is made of PEOPLE! Real people, people who work, you know. WORK. Know their stuff (at least most of them, save the incompetence of e.g. Tiberium FPS staff = / which cancelled the game in the end).

Well... I'd like to continue, but I strongly agree with Orange.
There's no point in explaining to 13yo apparently not knowing the reality of work, qualifications, the already prepared engine which allows a fast development of new games, and so forth.

No point. People are capable of reasoning, but not all, it seems.
Learn the word called "empathy".
Try to walk in someone else's shoes, too. Try. Try to imagine yourself as a worker of EA. Too hard? Then study the conditions, jobs, requirements, the education required... a knowledge of C&C... then mix it all up.
Hating EA is ridiculous. Any propaganda is evil, too and all revolutions ended rather badly...

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playmsbk
playmsbk

i say it again:
i dont hate those who WORK on EA. i hate their capitalistic strategy buying other companies and closing them.
i have tried to make some models 1 time. they were hard to make and ugly. i am pleased with EA's models.
not all revolutions ended badly. and i am not using anti-EA propaganda here now.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

No, not at all. You're using a propaganda, even if a very subtle one.

Capitalistic strategy buying other companies and closing them? Companies are 'capitalistic' themselves. Why can't they be objects of capitalistic machinations?

So, all in all, that buy-outs and closures were necessary. If you don't understand capitalism, how and why manpower moves along with their knowledge, your hate is pretty blind.

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playmsbk
playmsbk

sony is still successful without buying any developers out there. konami is too. i hate capitalism. it ruined this world and the environment. in order to make money people kill, destroy etc.

do u really think that i argue with u and any other because i want to spread the anti-EA ideology? if i were here everyday and i would tell anything that would make people go anti-EA it would be. if i am using propaganda here now then u r using too.

and u r using propaganda. u r trying to convince people i am stupid and immature and telling them that if they go anti-EA they will be stupid and immature too.

qpac means that the men with the money say that a game must be built in x amount of time and the workers obey.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Yes, they must, that's called a deadline, and it's completely understandable and normal!
Westwood has proven to be too lazy to meed very deadly deadlines ;-), unlike EALA.

Everybody's using his own propaganda, when somebody says ANYTHING. So you're using your propaganda, Admiral is using his propaganda, and everybody else does it too, unless they're silent.
Even so, they speak with their deeds and actions!

So. All in all, propagandas are common. Reasons for them don't need to be... most often they aren't. Have you brought any sensible reasons why Westwood, as a parasite, shouldn't be closed?
Also Tiberium dev team should be uncovered to devs, how they unprofessionally made the game and received cash for that.
This IS EA's fail, a fail to compel that team to make us a FPS game.

Not criticising the closure of Westwood, firing the very people who even if they founded epic C&C, weren't capable of meeting deadlines.

Every programmer's work is very hard... working overtime is standard, it's a daily routine. Please, learn these things first, then criticise anybody.
That's why buying. They didn't meet deadlines. It's THEIR fault, not EA's. Westwood's!

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playmsbk
playmsbk

WW cared about what they gave to their customers. Pandemic did that too. EA's deadlines are supernatural. have u played Mercenaries 2? its not a game! its a bug collection. there are from visual bugs to programming bugs and from those which u dont even notice to those which make u want to destroy ur console.

when will u get it to ur mind that I DONT HATE THE DEVs I HATE THE STRATEGY EA USES!

@ to Lazy6pyro: i just played BF1943. the graphics remind me of PS2.

Wikipedia said that about DICE.

how the hell do u think i know whats happening to Petroglyph. i have played UaW and although it isnt called "C&C" it had someof this feeling in it which cnc4 doesnt. anyway what does the Petroglyph thing has to do with my EA hating?

i dont consider RA2 a WW game.

what do u mean with the last part? read my comments more carefully before answering please.

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Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro

I would completely disagree that WW cared at all. I'm not really sure where you are getting this from....source?
Here are some facts:
-WW provided 0 modding capabilities with their games. ALL of the modding tools you see were fan made. Final Alert and Final Sun were both originally fan-made tools. Don't believe me...ask any real vet: the names Olaf Van Der Spek, Deezire, Nyerguds, Koen are the ones that really made modding possible. Actually the first real dev-backed tools came from EA's influence with Renegade. Then community manager, Delphi, pushed hard for RenX and the modding tools were available soon after shipping.

-WW let quite a few people down with TS. The game was litearlly trumpeted as the next coming of Christ with all of the feature-creep capabilities that didn't work into the final game. Adam Isgreen is on record stating that TS was hell internally with quite a bit of in-fighting and morale wavering.

-Actually look at all the games WW were responsible for. That's quite a number. Infact, it would look just based on product ship dates and approximate staffing, they had development cycles close to if not matching that of EA's current. Though take into account adjustments for the increase of complexity of games.

When ever did WW hold community summits? Allow players to partake in betas? How about having box-art that actually had content ingame? (Both my TS and RA2 boxes have alpha/beta images on the back and weren't actually available ingame).

Well, I would expect you to know what's going down with Petro since you stated something along the lines of "they're all at Petro now." I would expect you to know some of those names, given two were the FOUNDERS of WW and one is a very early and well-known employee. Whenever they sneeze, CnC community sites document it.

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Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro

Unfortunately, I can't quote you because your inflammatory nature directly caused the deletion of said images and conversation. But I do quite clearly remember a comment from you about EA overworking their employees. The sad truth is that it is an industry-wide feature; that isn't even limited to the gaming industry. I just went to a presentation by a former Dreamworks employee who stated that they were ****** that people were leaving the compound to do laundry, so they put a free laundromat in the studio to compliment the rooms of cots for sleeping. People are always overworked in the entertainment industry. Always.

You meant DICE Canada...yea that's the problem with wikipedia they don't give you the whole story at all. DICE Canada was really just a booster-pack and patch off-shoot of DICE; it was overlapping overhead with EA itself and thus was not needed. All were offered to move to Sweden or were given interviews at North American EA locations, so it isn't like they guys were kicked into the cold. Even so, it only affected 30 people, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not every sure why you are bringing in your perception of BF 1943 in here...it has no value. Though about your thought, while it certainly isn't Crysis (its a PSN/XBL game FFS-the best thing since sliced bread isn't expected here), it isn't PS2 quality. Don't make me do a side-by-side comparison with a late-gen PS2 game and point out each and ever nuance. That statement was to mere show you that DICE is still around, which you seem to abhorrently think was false.

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Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro

Here's another funny addendum, which I didn't know about until doing some researching. DICE owned Trauma studios for a while, but shut it down. This was 9 months before they agreed to sell to EA and before talks of doing so began. Not so innocent now, are they?

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Wow,
Lazy6pyro : playmsbk
100 : -606 !

Anyway, I thought of something similar, too... one needs only to look closely at WW's products. You say EA's games are bugged?
WW's too.
E.g. RA2:YR doesn't have support for 3 faction sidebars!
Play RA2:YR and you'll see! Yuri and Soviets share the same one, except for the radar anim!
This list doesn't end here...

Besides, playmsbk, you say "its not a game! its a bug collection", I say "shut up because you have NO programming skills, how can you judge any people for any games, any hard work they put in and any bugs they made?!"

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

To second Lazy6pyro, I can say that WW didn't even THINK of possibility of modders & modding.

playmsbk, you say: RA3 cut many modding features.
I say: RA2 was stripped of many, many features when the expansion came out. They have taken them out shamelessly and without regret.
Even if one can think that such features as e.g. a multi-engineer capturing multiple buildings are useless, it could be used in a mediaeval mod as a some sort of king or a warlord capable of capturing many enemy's buildings if let alone.

... and now, see: this was desupported. By WW themselves.
So talk BS if you want to. It's only your blind hate, nothing more, nothing less.

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playmsbk
playmsbk

u and Lazy6pyro blame me for words i ve never said! i never said EA over works their employees and i never said anything about RA3 modding tools(how do u want me to know what modding tools RA3 has?!)

@ to Feillyne: even if someone has no programming knowlrdge he can understand if there are bugs in the game. i dont think ea wanted to make the buzzers being mutated or units stucking between some civilian structures.

i didnt say WW games were 100% clean from bugs. (although i dont consider RA2 a WW game).

with ur logic those who hate something or someone are immature. let me guess. u have never felt that u hate someone or something even for some seconds.

@ to Lazy6pyro: WW's cnc didnt eed modding to be nice. and i believe that in that time not even 25% of games were moddable.

sry maybe my source was a little out of date.

and i thought Wikipedia was trustworthy.

the BF1943 example was to show u another franchise that will die for the consoles.

i never claimed that DICE was one purely good company which never bought other companies and never fired anyone.

this has became more difficult. i have 2 people to deal with.

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Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro

AFAIK the Battlefield franchise is doing VERY well. I'm not really sure where you are coming up with it about to die...especially from a PSN/XBL game. Just take a very quick look at many of those games; they usually are not up to the standard of, and most-likely lack quite a few features from their full-priced cousins. It's a completely different type of market.

What games have huge anticipation for them? Battlefield 3 and Battlefield Bad Company 2. Heroes is very competitive in the F2P market. BF 2 still has a huge following, and so does 2142.

If you truly did not mention anything about the overworking of employees, then I apologize. It was, however, in the comments of one of your now-deleted image posts, and has been a very common attacking point against EA.

My point about DICE was that you are singling out EA for closing studios, while ignoring that it is a very common event in not only the entertainment industry, but also throughout the working world.

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Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro

Yet, you still don't address WW failing to deliver on the TS they promised us.

Nor falsely advertising things that were on the back of the box as "screenshots" but were never actually ingame at all.

Nor did you address WW's apparent lack of communication or care with the community. How can they care if they barely acknowledge we exist?

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qpac
qpac

And who are behind the workers? The men with the MONEY! They decide, not the workers. Workers are just doing what they've been ordered to. When I say "f*ck EA!", I mean the people responsible for this. Have to earn profit fast? Release a game every (second) year, in almost every franchise! And THAT IS the ********!

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

No. You don't understand working, do you? You think that people with money and little knowledge about franchise, do something? No. They just propose ideas, which fulfillment depends on programmers and designers.

Even then, almost whole work is done by devs. They can tweak it as they wish. Directors aren't concept artists. Concept artists make their own images of what should be done.

Some people understand that businessmen knowing nothing about e.g. C&C can't make C&C games for C&C fans and make some profit. But specific employees and producers can, these who know even A LITTLE about C&C. They do. Don't except C&C fanatics to make C&C games.

Only one thing you can require and except from them: they will do it professionally, as best as they can.

See C&C Tiberium FPS affair to get the image of the total incompetence and sucking in cash from salaries for a few years of nothing (one level, a demo, and a trailer!).

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qpac
qpac

1.:WTF do you mean by I don't understand work in general? You just insulting me, or what?
2.: Battlefield Heroes: namely free, but everything else than basic stuff is for REAL money! Have to pay the devs? Why did they make a free game?
3.:I have the feeling that you're an EA-fanboy. If so, I'm ending this conversation.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Oh yeah, I am an EA-fanboy, and I know FAILS of EA in this way. I know how they f*cked Tiberium FPS, I will never forgive them - unless they give the source and models to specific modders and make it for FREE.

Actual fails. Not some anti-EA or lazy people calling themselves haters, which think up completely IMAGINED fails.

The quality has NOTHING to do with YOUR personal taste! Learn this lesson. Hard.

You don't understand if you don't see the process of concept artists drawing the units, and if you don't understand that actual people behind ideas, spend much time telling concept artists how to make these units.
And if they don't spend any time, concept artists make the units themselves.

That's the process and the core and the case.
You just being stupid thinking some distant businessmen are behind advertising or units!
They give cash, nothing more! Nothing.

And they CERTAINLY don't have time to prod Westwood to make anything.
They don't. They hire professional people who work effectively to meet deadlines. That's all. And yes, some of WW ideas were realised by EALA!

WW was closed for a reason. Learn it first. Then bash anybody or anything.

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qpac
qpac

"The quality has NOTHING to do with YOUR personal taste! Learn this lesson. Hard." Erm, I just don't understand this line, where did I say that? (I mean what you've "replied" to.)

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

qpac wrote: But Red Aert 3... it would be awesome WITHOUT Japan.


Nothing. The Empire units are perfectly modelled. Aren't they of HQ?

So what do you bash? The "awesome" idea of the Empire? "Awesome", "bad" are all PERSONAL taste. Nothing more. It's only an idea. The idea of creating a new faction for RA, namely the Empire of Rising Sun.

RA3 wouldn't be better or worse w/o Japan. But IMHO, IMHO!, it's the most innovative faction they've chosen for a game so far.
Not a good idea, not a bad idea. Just an idea. It's subjective. It has nothing to do with the quality and it certainly doesn't ruin the C&C if Yuri is said to be dead and it has Allies and Soviets in it!

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qpac
qpac

Do not twist my words! I've said I don't like Japan, but not that its low quality! It's quality just dosen't matter for me.
And who said that creating a new fraction is nesscesary?

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Westwood said when they killed Yuri!

No, you twist your OWN words. Everybody can see that you think "RA3 would be of HIGHER quality without Japan"! You rascist. :-D (I'm laughing now... don't try to entertain me more. :-D)

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qpac
qpac

My ******* god, now you're saying that I'm rascist because I don't like a faction in a video game? And you must have problems with your sight, because I haven't mentioned quality.
But I agree, this "conversation" has to come to an end.

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feillyne StaffSubscriber
feillyne

Haha, that was a joke, look at the emoticon.
You haven't? You have. You've just judged RA3. Judged. Said that it would be better without 'a faction'. It wouldn't.

Don't run from your own unfair judgements. When you said "awesome" you MEANT the quality. The quality of RA3. No, it wouldn't be awesome. The Empire models, background and so on, are all well-thought.

If you have problems with that, I'll leave you with them alone.
It wouldn't be better or worse, but RA3 without the 3rd faction would suck, very probably.

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Lazy6pyro
Lazy6pyro

Qpac, to sort of answer your question about Heroes.

A) brand recognition/loyalty in a new market
The F2P (Free to play) market is relatively new. There are quite a few indies and/smaller companies out there doing this. With Heroes, DICE/EA is bringing a big-name player and franchise into the mix.

This way, if people have fun at heroes, then they may be more likely to venture out into the other Battlefield games - which cost money. This helps the loyalty of Battlefield, and may help retain more customers.

B) the ability for microtransactions. Now, I don't know for certain if Heroes will be getting this, but it is certianly not a large step away. With this, you can charge people for small things - such as new uniforms, different color schemes or even upgrades.

Look at what Nexon is doing with their F2P FPS Combat Arms. The game itself is free, but they offer a store (the Black Market) where people can buy upgrades to their character or weapons, or even buy new characters. This is with a point-based system with actual money as a backing.

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moretanks!!!
moretanks!!!

would you people mind if i chip in?

there will always be hate.
there was people ranting through the forums about WW when tibsun mamoth mkII was a walker.
there were people ranting through the forums when generals was first made.
there will always be people ranting through the forums when there is change.
but when there is no change there will be people ranting through the forums that the game isn't original.

so will the people blaming ea for ruining cnc drop the goddamn issue since i seem to remeber threads ranting about ea because the reaper in uprising is unoriginal because EA TOOK THE CONCEPT FROM WESTWOOD.

the people here are hating ea for the sake of it, they would blame ea no matter if it does change or not.

note: i'm 13

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moretanks!!!
moretanks!!!

note: i don't mean that the same person/s would hate EA for contradicting reasons.

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