Wincondition wishlist Thread - Ultimate Apocalypse Mod (DOW SS) for Dawn of War

Didn't see a thread for this, so I thought I'd throw one in.

Anyway, my idea was a wincondition that doubles or triples the amount of time, and or cost, to teir up. This would make he units of each teir much more important, and less likely to be ignored in a teir race for better units. The lesser baneblade variants come to mind, and the many other units.

Thanks for reading!

THIS, THIS, THIS.

nfortunately good laddie, I'm afraid this is almost impossible/would take an entire revamp of every faction + add tier structures to the game. As it stands, the only way to make this work is to make it so every single faction has a specific tier structure, like Tau (only their tier III - V are researches) because addons and researches cannot be modified by cost and or cost time...

Rendered me COMPLETELY, 100%!!!!!!! saddened to all living hell as I was about to implement such a feature since 1.8. Did not work out. So... as defaults or a mod addon, it is all we can ever get. THANK RELIC for ruining, COMPLETELY this awesome wincondition.

Also nice idea thread.

My question is, how are the default tier costs and wait times?

Ah, I hadn't thought about the tiering via buildings rather than a button, like with the Space Marines. That is really quite a shame.

As for the way it currently is? It takes a bit getting used to, since you made it longer with the new patch. However, as you are trying to find a middle ground between too fast and too slow, since there is no way for us to customize it, I think it works quite well. I haven't done any balancing testing, but I haven't seen any races tier up notably faster than others, so I'd say it's a job well done.

What about an addon that makes every race OP like they are in the lore? :p

the timing is pretty good but the low tier teching from tier1 to tier2 is still a little too cheap in my opinion. a 50 blue increase for most races to go tier 1 is fine because most tier 0 units transition or need t1 to unlock funcionality through weapons. however, going to tier 2 is almost instant for me i find. i use tier 2, 3, and 4 units a lot because i find that even if people are ahead of me in tech i find that flooding units can help make up the difference. on the other hand i find myself hesitant to use tier 1 units heavily because tier 1 is still almost skippable and a lot of races have tier 2 equivalents that straight replace tier 1 units for little cost increase.

What about an addon that makes every race OP like they are in the lore? :p

I don't even think this mod needs an addon for that lol.

@dracmage: What was your resource rate?

restrict artillery

really need this.

Not sure if it's possible, but a wincon that sets a maximum number of turrets. Either a specific number per players (live or AI), or (even better) a specific number per stronghold-type building.

1. A condition that removes all forms of cheating from the AI or at least limits it as much as possible -especially the resource AND intelligence gathering related ones. The AI should act by the same rules as us Players can. It shouldn't get resource bonuses just because out of nothing and shouldn't be able to know where the opponents' assets are without actually scouting them out alike us Players have to!

2. One that removes all resource decay. It is always argued that it is there to restrict the economy in the game, but it's just a huge drawback for everyone except/not that much for the necrons. It's a rather dumb way of global economy restriction.
In vanilla it might have worked in a balanced way before adding the necrons, but after that they were just lazy to think of a better one and left it that way. In addition in UA, which in a way boosts the economy even more, it becomes even more useless.

Why are there so many resource booster upgrades that boost the economy that much in UA? At creation you might have thought of them because of the huge prices, but their only real purpose is somehow countering the flawed decay system. I suggest removing some of that economy booster upgrades and removing decay too. That way it won't become colossal, and it will be balanced towards all parties.

Edited by: Zsombi

Here's my win condition request:

Change the resource rate income so that it is only available to the player & bot after 5/10/15 minutes instead of gaining the resource every second. What I think this would do is making each unit and building creation choice a heavier commitment, thus encouraging the player to really take their time in their unit/building choice.

The continuous income rate of vanilla DoW (and the Ultimate Apocalypse mod for that matter) acts as a safety net for the player, in the sense that if they messed up and lost some units or buildings, they'll be able to afford to replace X/Y/Z within the next 15-20 seconds.

It's sort of a bridge-gap between traditional RTS economy (continuous income rate) and Total War's skirmishes (a definite amount of points determine your unit composition throughout the entire game).

Edited by: s2korpionic

A rule that does 2 things:

1. limits the number of defensive structures with weapons to 3 per HQ.
2. greatly boosts all outpost and all defensive structure's both defensive and offensive capabilities, if possible including range or at least vision range.

This would be in order to force more frequent mobile asset use rather than what can be often seen fx. on JordanLane's or MasterofRolfness' matches (on youtube). in almost all matches every single Player regardless of faction/race choice is a turtling ecowhore (forgive my rudeness).
While this would force more unit production, it would still keep defensive structures useful, even in very small numbers.

Really love this idea above! But maybe also add +1 per listening post as some races need turrets to defend their LP's exclusively. And Ork Waagh will need to be looked at(or excluded from this effect)

As other users suggested, I also would like to change the resource rate the AI gathers in the way I mention in the thread I made.

My absolute loves would be for a couple of Restrictions;

- Restriction: Artillery (Go away T4 Tau Ion Cannons!)
- Restriction: Winbuttons (Just strip nukes and boring game enders, but keep fun stuff like T5 and Bullshit Hyper-Elite Relic Units.)
- Restriction: Base Defence (Maybe a one for just walls? Maybe one for walls and turrets. Or perhaps just limit the number you can build.)

I absolutely adore the sheer amount of options you are given in the Win Conditions, just a couple more and I'd basically be in heaven!

- Restriction: Winbuttons (Just strip nukes and boring game enders, but keep fun stuff like T5 and Bullshit Hyper-Elite Relic Units.)

Already implemented. Wait. nnnnnnnnn nevermind.

This is actually impossible as we cannot restrict abilities.

Edited by: Lord_Cylarne

Oh? That's a shame.

Is it possible to restrict Buildings? Although I suppose that could get difficult with races that require nuke facilities to get T5.

Oh well! We can deal without it!

Zsombi wrote:

1. A condition that removes all forms of cheating from the AI or at least limits it as much as possible -especially the resource AND intelligence gathering related ones. The AI should act by the same rules as us Players can. It shouldn't get resource bonuses just because out of nothing and shouldn't be able to know where the opponents' assets are without actually scouting them out alike us Players have to!

I never understood why this bothered people. It keeps things challenging. If you want the AI to act like a human player, go verse a human player. I am sure there will be people on here who would like too.

As for a win condition, bring back the restriction of base defenses. Sometimes I just want to turn that on with vehicle, titan and endgame restrictions and fight hoards of Imperial Guardsmen.

Edited by: Dievorhut

Dievorhut wrote:

Zsombi wrote:

1. A condition that removes all forms of cheating from the AI or at least limits it as much as possible -especially the resource AND intelligence gathering related ones. The AI should act by the same rules as us Players can. It shouldn't get resource bonuses just because out of nothing and shouldn't be able to know where the opponents' assets are without actually scouting them out alike us Players have to!

I never understood why this bothered people. It keeps things challenging. If you want the AI to act like a human player, go verse a human player. I am sure there will be people on here who would like too.

No, I just don't want it to cheat when the strength is set to normal. Without any weakening game restrictions or win conditions, a Normal AI should not have access to more stuff than a human player has access to. If I want a challenge then I chose the hardest AI. In fact, the default should be the non-cheating AI and conditions should be for varying levels of AI cheating. Not the other way around as is now. Even in the earliest games AI cheating was used for lack of AI adaptability or for having weak/dumb AI, but I would have expected for newer ones, at least after 2000, to use better AIs instead of giving them cheats.

~~
An option that adds a "veteran" starting force composed of the same kind of units that players can acquire during the vanilla DC or SS campaigns (or similar ones in category /purpose) with appropriate UA stats & abilities, but better than the player produce-able units, they would be "veterans" after all. They would be marked with the same or similar colored circle on the ground too to make it easier to distinguish them from common troops.

Edited by: Zsombi

Lord_Cylarne wrote:

- Restriction: Winbuttons (Just strip nukes and boring game enders, but keep fun stuff like T5 and Bullshit Hyper-Elite Relic Units.)

Already implemented. Wait. nnnnnnnnn nevermind.

This is actually impossible as we cannot restrict abilities.

Wait, what? Can't you just use "Player_RestrictAbility( playerID, abilityName )", or am I just missing something here?

Kasrkin84:
Wait, what? Can't you just use "Player_RestrictAbility( playerID, abilityName )", or am I just missing something here?

That brings up a good point.

Also, another solution, couldn't you stop the production of nukes like you'd stop the production of Vehicles with "Restriction: Vehicles"?

Patch Notes:

• New 1.86 rule: All turrets (by a large request) were limited to 8 per HQ. All advanced turrets were limited to three per HQ. All factions that don't have advanced turrets have a limit of 10 per hq.
• New 1.86 rule: All Thermo Generators are now useful. All thermo generators now contain abilities that will tremendously supply your faction with great benefits in later tiers. Also involving the exchange of resources.

With the new Turret Rules that are being rolled out, it'd be super useful to have something along the lines of having a couple of customisable options for those. Like perhaps;

• Wincondition: Turret Wars (Unlimited Turrets, no restrictions)
• Wincondition: Turret Veto (No Turrets, No Walls, No Tank Traps)

Edited by: Greysion

With the new Turret Rules that are being rolled out, it'd be super useful to have something along the lines of having a couple of customisable options for those. Like perhaps;

• Wincondition: Turret Wars (Unlimited Turrets, no restrictions)

• Wincondition: Turret Veto (No Turrets, No Walls, No Tank Traps)

I 100% agree with this.

Probably extremely low priority, but I would like to see the list of addons and wincons cleaned up: in alphabetical order with some sub-categories like "Addons", "Game Speed", "Restrictions", "Win/Lose", etc. I hate having to look for the ones I want to use, and with more and more being added all the time...

I tried cleaning things up on my end, but I don't know enough about how the game loads its files. So I got some... oddities.

Edited by: Galrick

Restrict motorbikes.

Add-on that doubles the damage of all weapon bearing structures. Not just their default form but the upgrades' too, separately for each item.

Limiting their numbers was okay, but now they "became" weaker than they already were. Each faction has a damage upgrade for nearly all tier levels, yet people still have to build a mountain range of them to be effective against anything of equal or slightly higher tier level. That, I see as a problem. Two or three should be enough to hold back a small to medium force -not necessarily including top tier titan tiers.

Make please possibility to produce 1 unit in every squade and produce all exarchs, sergants, champions, etc individual. For fun or duels VS units.